Welcome to Bimmerfest -- The #1 Online Community for BMW related information! Please enjoy the discussion forums below and share your experiences with the 200,000 current, new and past BMW owners. The forums are broken out by car model and into other special interest sections such as BMW European Delivery and a special forum to voice your questions to the many BMW dealers on the site to assist our members!

Please follow the links below to help get you started!

Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 5 Series > E39 (1997 - 2003)

E39 (1997 - 2003)
The BMW 5-Series (E39 chassis) was introduced in the United States as a 1997 model year car and lasted until the 2004 when the E60 chassis was released. The United States saw several variations including the 525i, 528i, 530i and 540i. -- View the E39 Wiki

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #26  
Old 05-28-2010, 07:14 PM
cn90 cn90 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Omaha NE
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 12,739
Mein Auto: 1998 528i 5-sp 140K+
I find this very interesting. The traditional coolant has about 50% water, so naturally when you boil it to 90-105C, the water evaporates, increasing the pressure, pretty much like a pressure cooker like Chief said.

On the other hand, I wonder why car makers don't simply fill the cooling system with ATF as the coolant? It would be a perfect fluid to be used as coolant. I may be wrong.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 05-28-2010, 08:09 PM
chiefwej's Avatar
chiefwej chiefwej is online now
Freude am Fahren
Location: Tucson, AZ
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,293
Mein Auto: 2003 540i/6 //m-tech
Quote:
Originally Posted by POof540i View Post
Nice, how often do you have to change the fluid?
Per Evans: at least 100,000 miles.

"What is an Evans Waterless Coolant? Evans Waterless Coolants are the ONLY 100% waterless automotive engine coolant available on the market. All Evans Waterless Coolants are a chemical blend that results in more efficient cooling due to a higher boiling point. The increased boiling point of the coolant eliminates the occurance of boil over, cavitation, and detonation. Not only do Evans Waterless Coolants not boil over,they do not freeze. At extreme cold temperatures the coolants contract and become extremely thick, not becoming solid and expanding like antifreeze containing water. Because Evans Waterless Coolants do not contain water electrolysis and corrosion are also eliminated. Every Evans Waterless Coolant requires the entire cooling system to be drained (radiator, engine block and heater core) and refilled 100% with one of the Evans Waterless Coolants. No need to add anything. Evans now has three different coolants to choose from depending on the application and use of your specific vehicle. Also available is a flush fluid for smaller engines without block drains."

"Evans NPG+ Waterless Coolant is the most popular of Evans Waterless Coolants, recommended coolant for all gasoline and diesel engines. NPG+ is a year round, lifetime coolant. No other cooling system modifications are required for stock vehicles to run NPG+. Simply drain the entire system and fill. NPG+is safe for stored vehicles and vehicles operated in extreme cold conditions. Motorcycles and small engines are suggested to use Prep Fluid as a flush prior to installing NPG+. NPG+ meets or exceeds both the ASTM D 1384 corrosion test and the ASTM D 3306-94 specifications."
__________________
chiefwej 2003 540i ///m-tech 6-speed
Black Sapphire Metallic w/gray

Last edited by chiefwej; 05-28-2010 at 08:12 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 05-28-2010, 08:18 PM
jbrovage jbrovage is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Wyandotte, MI
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 113
Send a message via AIM to jbrovage Send a message via MSN to jbrovage Send a message via Yahoo to jbrovage
Mein Auto: 2000 BMW 540iT
don't oils retain heat? i think water is a better heat TRANSFER medium than oils. It's like the difference between aluminum radiators and copper/steel ones. aluminum costs more, but it's ability to dissipate heat is much better, so a smaller radiator is needed.
__________________
- Jeremy

"I never learned from a man who agreed with me." - Robert A. Heinlein
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 05-28-2010, 08:27 PM
chiefwej's Avatar
chiefwej chiefwej is online now
Freude am Fahren
Location: Tucson, AZ
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,293
Mein Auto: 2003 540i/6 //m-tech
Of all substances known, water has the highest latent heat capacity. But it has many other characteristics which create problems when used as a coolant. Low boil point, freezes readily, expands on freezing, corrosive, etc.

NPG+ boils above 375, it never freezes and it flows well down to -40, it is also non corrosive. It's just a bit expensive and can't be mixed with water or other coolants.
__________________
chiefwej 2003 540i ///m-tech 6-speed
Black Sapphire Metallic w/gray

Last edited by chiefwej; 05-28-2010 at 08:31 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 05-28-2010, 11:04 PM
rtanov rtanov is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: SW Ohio
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 173
Mein Auto: 03 540iA sport; 00 540iA
Quote:
Originally Posted by chiefwej View Post
Of all substances known, water has the highest latent heat capacity.
Yes, and that is why we have this corrosive, evaporative, etc. fluid in our systems - it does a great job of taking heat out of the engine block and dissipating it through the radiator. So, what is the NPG+ heat capacity compared to water? How does your temperature gauge look compared to what it was with the regular coolant? You obviously did a lot of research before doing this, is there any data (preferably independent) about the engine operating temperature with the NPG+ compared to a regular coolant? This would be very interesting.
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 05-28-2010, 11:58 PM
5er2er8er 5er2er8er is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: S.Florida
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 125
Mein Auto: 98 528ia premium
The temp gauge will read the same the liquid gets just as hot as regular coolant if i understand correctly the only difference is that it doesnt boil till 375* And since our normal temp doesnt get that high there will be no pressure in the system.
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 05-29-2010, 08:09 AM
doru's Avatar
doru doru is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Calgary
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 4,457
Mein Auto: 2003 530iA
pV = nRT
__________________
Looking for a DIY? Parts? Check this out, it might be your ticket
TMS underdrive pullies - Stewart WP - PSS9 - Beisan Vanos seals - Zimmerman cross-drilled & Akebono Euro - Deka 649 MF - 55w HID headlights - 35w HID foglights - Hualigan double din - ACS (rep) alu pedals - Euro central storage console - Breyton Magic Racing staggered wheels - M5 bumper - M5 steering wheel - Tint
Stable: e39, e53, e46 & Tribby
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 05-29-2010, 08:11 AM
july865 july865 is offline
Registered User
Location: so cal
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 42
Mein Auto: 97 528i
Quote:
The temp gauge will read the same the liquid gets just as hot as regular coolant if i understand correctly the only difference is that it doesnt boil till 375* And since our normal temp doesnt get that high there will be no pressure in the system.
soooo, you can get the same results, the same performance, not having to worry about seal and gasket compatibility, readily available everywhere, and at 1/3-1/2 the cost. just to keep the system for generating pressure. even dealer supplied coolant seems like a better deal.
hmmm. tuff sell for me.
but good info... all that matters is that you like it and works for you.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 05-29-2010, 08:29 AM
PropellerHead PropellerHead is offline
Brevity= the soul of wit
Location: At the wheel of a bimmer
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 10,139
Mein Auto: You've*got*to be kidding
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrovage View Post
aluminum costs more, but it's ability to dissipate heat is much better, so a smaller radiator is needed.
I think you might have that backwards. And don't forget that copper is heavier. Many of the '02 guys convert to copper tripple cored radiators for better efficiency over the under-performing stock units.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 05-29-2010, 10:25 AM
chiefwej's Avatar
chiefwej chiefwej is online now
Freude am Fahren
Location: Tucson, AZ
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,293
Mein Auto: 2003 540i/6 //m-tech
Quote:
Originally Posted by july865 View Post
soooo, you can get the same results, the same performance, not having to worry about seal and gasket compatibility, readily available everywhere, and at 1/3-1/2 the cost. just to keep the system for generating pressure. even dealer supplied coolant seems like a better deal.
hmmm. tuff sell for me.
but good info... all that matters is that you like it and works for you.
You got it. No pressure, no exploding radiators, no spewing leaks. If a hose sprung a leak, no explosion, you could just wrap some duct tape on it as a temp fix, w/ no pressure things just last longer.
Cost? BMW coolant 2 gal required @ $20 each + 2 gal distilled water @$1 ea = $42 Total Cost.
Evans 3 gal at $32 =$96.
$54 diff. For me, worth a try, and if it saves me a cooling system overhaul.........

I especially like the fact that so many who don't seem to care what brand of coolant they have been using in their BMW, are now so concerned about Evans compatibility with seals and gaskets.
__________________
chiefwej 2003 540i ///m-tech 6-speed
Black Sapphire Metallic w/gray

Last edited by chiefwej; 05-29-2010 at 03:17 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 05-29-2010, 03:19 PM
doru's Avatar
doru doru is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Calgary
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 4,457
Mein Auto: 2003 530iA
Quote:
Originally Posted by chiefwej View Post
I especially like the fact that so many who don't seem to care what brand of coolant they have been using in their BMW, are now so concerned about Evans compatibility with seals and gaskets.
This is the very essence of all forums. People like to play devil's advocate.
__________________
Looking for a DIY? Parts? Check this out, it might be your ticket
TMS underdrive pullies - Stewart WP - PSS9 - Beisan Vanos seals - Zimmerman cross-drilled & Akebono Euro - Deka 649 MF - 55w HID headlights - 35w HID foglights - Hualigan double din - ACS (rep) alu pedals - Euro central storage console - Breyton Magic Racing staggered wheels - M5 bumper - M5 steering wheel - Tint
Stable: e39, e53, e46 & Tribby
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 05-30-2010, 03:26 AM
gtxragtop's Avatar
gtxragtop gtxragtop is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Mass
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 877
Mein Auto: 2003 530IA
Quote:
Originally Posted by taggart View Post
Does the heater still work?
Of course it does. This coolant does not lower the operating temperature of the engine. If the coolant was running at say 195F with conventional coolant it will run at 195F with NPG+.

Looking that the website what they are saying is that you can operate with 0 PSI safely. This is due to a high boiling point (375F) at 0 PSI. The entire purpose of pressure is to prevent conventional coolant from boiling. I read this to say you could safely modify your pressure cap to no longer allow pressure buildup. You DO want to allow for coolant expansion and contraction which with our Bimmer's we get from the integrated expansion tank. On a typical auto with a remote unpressurized expansion tank, you could safely modify the cap for 0 pressure while maintaining an airtight seal from the cap to the expansion tank to allow coolant to flow in/out of the expansion tank.

Thinking about this more, I wonder on our cars if we should ever modify the cap for 0 pressure. Since we do not have a remote reservoir, this will result in new air entering/exiting the system on every thermal cycle (hot to cold) Each time new oxygen is brought into the system and oxygen promotes corrosion. With a remote reservoir, that is not pressurized, only coolant is moved.

Summary: Do not modify your cap for 0 pressure

Boiling Point
Water@15 psi - 250 F
50/50 coolant @15 psi - 264F
NPG+ @0psi - 375F

Note with any fluid, when it heats and cools it expands and contracts. Apparently this is the only thing that generates pressure with the NPG coolant due to the high boiling point. This thread is very interesting and will continue to be as more members try NPG+ and share experiences. I just spent a ton of money on buying all the cooling system overhaul parts. That said, water pump bearings/seals do go, and my thermostat housing to engine seal does leak slightly though only under pressure. Perhaps my overhaul could have been limited to these 2 parts.
__________________
Ever wonder why 5 series electrical issues are common and complicated.. Spend time here and you will understand why. http://www.bmw-planet.com/diagrams/r...9new/index.htm

Last edited by gtxragtop; 05-30-2010 at 03:54 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 05-30-2010, 04:09 AM
gtxragtop's Avatar
gtxragtop gtxragtop is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Mass
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 877
Mein Auto: 2003 530IA
Quote:
Originally Posted by rtanov View Post
Yes, and that is why we have this corrosive, evaporative, etc. fluid in our systems - it does a great job of taking heat out of the engine block and dissipating it through the radiator. So, what is the NPG+ heat capacity compared to water? How does your temperature gauge look compared to what it was with the regular coolant? You obviously did a lot of research before doing this, is there any data (preferably independent) about the engine operating temperature with the NPG+ compared to a regular coolant? This would be very interesting.
Interesting point. I'm not a ME but this is what I dug up.
The heat capacity of water is 1.00
The heat capacity of conventional coolant is .81
The heat capacity of NPG+ is .64 or 64% of water.
Source: http://www.evanscooling.com/water-ba...fferentiators/

Thus NPG+ requires less heat to change its temperature by a given amount than water or conventional coolant. This suggests to me that it is less efficient in gathering heat from the engine parts being cooled and less efficient at getting that heat removed at the radiator. Does this mean that the engine hot spots may not be cooled properly with NPG+ and you would not know this since the stuff has a 375F boiling point? Good questions.



More interesting explanation of specific heat:
The ability of water to stabilize temperature depends on its relatively high specific heat. The specific heat of a substance is defined at the amount of heat that must be absorbed or lost for 1 g of that substance to change its temperature by 1 C. The specific heat of water is 1.00 cal/g C. Compared with most other substances, water has an unusually high specific heat. For example, ethyl alcohol, the type in alcoholic beverages, has a specific heat of 0.6 cal/g C.

Because of the high specific heat of water relative to other materials, water will change its temperature less when it absorbs or loses a given amount of heat. The reason you can burn your finger by touching the metal handle of a pot on the stove when the water in the pot is still lukewarm is that the specific heat of water is ten times greater than that of iron. In other words, it will take only 0.1 cal to raise the temperature of 1 g of iron 1C. Specific heat can be thought of as a measure of how well a substance resists changing its temperature when it absorbs or releases heat. Water resists changing its temperature; when it does change its temperature, it absorbs or loses a relatively large quantity of heat for each degree of change.


Water sucks compared to this fluid for specific heat capacity:
Water, fresh 4.19 1.0
Ammonia, 32oF 4.6 1.1
Ammonia, 104oF 4.86 1.16
Ammonia, 176oF 5.4 1.29
Ammonia, 212oF 6.2 1.48
Ammonia, 238oF 6.74 1.61

But it boils at -33C so that might be a problem
__________________
Ever wonder why 5 series electrical issues are common and complicated.. Spend time here and you will understand why. http://www.bmw-planet.com/diagrams/r...9new/index.htm

Last edited by gtxragtop; 05-30-2010 at 04:43 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 05-30-2010, 07:22 AM
AnotherGeezer's Avatar
AnotherGeezer AnotherGeezer is offline
Hofmeister Kink
Location: ManchVegas, New Hampster
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,762
Mein Auto: 2003 530i/5
It would be nice if all auto manufacturers would adopt this technology.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 05-30-2010, 09:51 AM
chiefwej's Avatar
chiefwej chiefwej is online now
Freude am Fahren
Location: Tucson, AZ
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,293
Mein Auto: 2003 540i/6 //m-tech
Quote:
Originally Posted by gtxragtop View Post
Interesting point. I'm not a ME but this is what I dug up............

Water sucks compared to this fluid for specific heat capacity:
Water, fresh 4.19 1.0
Ammonia, 32oF 4.6 1.1
Ammonia, 104oF 4.86 1.16
Ammonia, 176oF 5.4 1.29
Ammonia, 212oF 6.2 1.48
Ammonia, 238oF 6.74 1.61

But it boils at -33C so that might be a problem
That is why so many large commercial industrial coolers use ammonia.
__________________
chiefwej 2003 540i ///m-tech 6-speed
Black Sapphire Metallic w/gray
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old 05-30-2010, 10:16 AM
Quackers's Avatar
Quackers Quackers is offline
Learning all the time
Location: Manchester, UK
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 545
Mein Auto: 540i
I must say that any idea to reduce the pressure of the cooling system sounds like a good idea to me. However, the engines are designed to run that hot and as a possible result, your emissions may possibly rise (as combustion may not be as complete).
Secondly BMW's anti-freeze contains corrosion inhibitors. Whilst I appreciate that inhibitors may not be required with a non-water system, I would need to confirm that before I tried it.
__________________
I maybe paranoid but that doesn't mean they're not after me!

Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 05-30-2010, 12:02 PM
filon102 filon102 is offline
Be american, get a bimmer
Location: Chicago, IL
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 639
Mein Auto: 00' 540i, 87' benz 300DT
it would be nice if u wrote a nice DIY... just an idea (with pics please lol )
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 05-30-2010, 07:45 PM
chiefwej's Avatar
chiefwej chiefwej is online now
Freude am Fahren
Location: Tucson, AZ
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,293
Mein Auto: 2003 540i/6 //m-tech
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quackers View Post
I must say that any idea to reduce the pressure of the cooling system sounds like a good idea to me. However, the engines are designed to run that hot and as a possible result, your emissions may possibly rise (as combustion may not be as complete).
Secondly BMW's anti-freeze contains corrosion inhibitors. Whilst I appreciate that inhibitors may not be required with a non-water system, I would need to confirm that before I tried it.
The operating temperature should remain relatively unchanged. If anything it might even be a just a tad higher, and then only under severe loads.

While many of Evans products are for race cars and other specialty uses, NPG+ was formulated as a year-round lifetime coolant for use in stock vehicles. EVANS NPG+ has a "Proprietary Corrosion Inhibitor Package".
__________________
chiefwej 2003 540i ///m-tech 6-speed
Black Sapphire Metallic w/gray
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 05-30-2010, 09:55 PM
mrpumpk1n mrpumpk1n is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: new york city
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 716
Mein Auto: 540i 1997
if they could find a suitable way to use liquid metal as coolant, itd be very effecient. sort of like LMFBRs. liquid metals have better heat transfer characteriistics, btu the only problem remains that the engine needs to stay hot. may be in the future, theyl find a solution
__________________


"Owning any german car is like hanukkah,
every day another light"
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 05-31-2010, 04:25 AM
gtxragtop's Avatar
gtxragtop gtxragtop is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Mass
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 877
Mein Auto: 2003 530IA
This is a bit disturbing if true. Check out the viscosity. When cool or cold NPG+ is like trying to pump molasses. Yes, it will heat up in a few miles but what bad stuff is taking place during that time? Probably not good stuff for cold winter climates.
http://www.lubricationspecialist.com...aspx?fileid=21

See post #17 here: http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?p=3270937

I'm sticking with BMW EG and distilled water.


EVANS MATERIAL SAFETY DATA SHEET NPG+
Cooling Systems, Inc.
02/11/2003 EVANS COOLING SYSTEMS, INC. Page 1 of 4
Rev A
SECTION 1- PRODUCT AND MANUFACTURER INFORMATION
MSDS DATE: 02/11/2003
PRODUCT NPG+
SYNONYMS Coolant
CHEMICAL FAMILY Glycols
FORMULA Blend
MANUFACTURER EMERGENCY INFORMATION
Evans Cooling Systems, Inc
255 Route 41 North EMERGENCY PHONE 888-990-2665 (24-hour)
Sharon, CT 06069
860-364-5130
SECTION 2 - HAZARDOUS INGREDIENTS
CHEMICAL/COMMON NAME CAS-NUMBER % PEL-OSHA ACGIH - STEL
ETHYLENE GLYCOL 107-21-1 69% none established 50 ppm (ceiling)
Product is not considered carcinogenic by NTP, IARC or OSHA
SECTION 3 - HAZARDOUS MATERIAL IDENTIFICATION SYSTEM
HEALTH=2 FLAMMABILITY=0 REACTIVITY=0 PROTECTION=B
SECTION 4 - HEALTH HAZARD DATA
HEALTH EFFECTS (Acute And Chronic)
EYES May cause slight transient eye irritation; corneal injury is unlikely.
SKIN Generally non-irritating. Prolonged or repeated contact may cause flaking, tenderness and softening of
the skin.
INHALATION No adverse effects under normal usage. However, if significant vapors or mists are inhaled,
exposure may result in irritation to the upper respiratory system.
INGESTION Ethylene Glycol is considered toxic and may cause central nervous system depression, dizziness,
headache and nausea. Significant ingestion may lead to loss of consciousness. Has been known
to cause kidney toxicity.
PRIMARY ROUTES OF ENTRY
EYES/SKIN: Yes INHALATION: No INGESTION: Not Likely
MEDICAL CONDITIONS AGGRAVATED BY EXPOSURE pre-existing eye disease
EVANS MATERIAL SAFETY DATA SHEET NPG+
Cooling Systems, Inc.
02/11/2003 EVANS COOLING SYSTEMS, INC. Page 2 of 4
Rev A
SECTION 5 - FIRST AID INSTRUCTIONS
EYES Flood with water for at least 15 minutes. If irritation persists, get medical attention.
SKIN Wash with water and mild soap. If irritation occurs and persists, get medical attention.
INHALATION Inhalation exposure should require no action. However, if significant inhalation exposure has
occurred, move victim to fresh air. If breathing is difficult, give oxygen. If breathing has
stopped, administer artificial respiration (mouth to mouth is preferred) if trained - get immediate
medical attention.
INGESTION If victim is alert, give the victim 4 8 oz of water. Do NOT induce vomiting. Keep victim calm
warm and seek medical advice
NOTE: Liver damage may be indicated by loss of appetite, jaundice, fatigue and sometimes pain/swelling on
right upper abdomen. Kidney toxicity is indicated by blood in urine or increased/decreased urine flow. Other
signs and symptoms of exposure can include nausea, abdominal cramps and diarrhea.
SECTION 6 - CHEMICAL DATA
BOILING POINT 375F SPECIFIC GRAVITY (WATER=1) 1.09
VAPOR PRESSURE (kPa) 8.0@176F SPECIFIC HEAT @212F 0.66BTU/lb
VAPOR DENSITY (AIR=1) >1.0 AUTOIGNITION TEMPERATURE 1054.7f
SOLUBILITY IN WATER complete
APPEARANCE AND ODOR INFORMATION Brown liquid, faint sweet trace odor
INCOMPATIBILITY (Materials To Avoid) oxidizers
HAZARDOUS DECOMPOSITION PRODUCTS none
WILL HAZARDOUS POLYMERIZATION OCCUR no
CONDITIONS TO AVOID FOR POLYMERIZATION none
IS THE PRODUCT STABLE yes
CONDITIONS TO AVOID FOR STABILITY none
SECTION 7 FIRE FIGHTING INFORMATION
FLASH POINT (Method Used) 233.4F FLAMMABLE LIMITS lower = 2.6% upper = 12.6%
EXTINGUISHING MEDIA water fog, foam, dry chemical
SPECIAL FIRE FIGHTING PROCEDURES Keep fire-exposed containers cool with water fog. Wear SCBA
and full turnout gear as recommended by NFPA.
UNUSUAL FIRE AND EXPLOSION HAZARDS None expected under normal storage and handling
conditions. Avoid exposing product to ignition sources (sparks) or temperatures above flash or autoignition
point.
EVANS MATERIAL SAFETY DATA SHEET NPG+
Cooling Systems, Inc.
02/11/2003 EVANS COOLING SYSTEMS, INC. Page 3 of 4
Rev A
SECTION 8 - SPILL OR LEAK/DISPOSAL PROCEDURES
STEPS TO BE TAKEN IN CASE MATERIAL IS RELEASED OR SPILLED
Dike and contain the spill. Spread granular absorbent Sweep up and place in container for disposal. Do not
allow material to enter drains, sewers and waterways. Comply with spill all local notification requirements. All
response activities must comply with HAZWOPER (29CFR 1910.120).
WASTE DISPOSAL METHODS Dispose of waste in compliance with local, state and federal regulations.
Recycle all wastes whenever feasible.
SECTION 9 TOXICOLOGY INFORMATION
For ETHYLENE GLYCOL: Repeated oral exposure in experimental animals and in humans has caused kidney
toxicity secondary to metabolic acidosis. Humans are more sensitive to ethylene glycol than experimental
animals. Toxic doses are estimated to be 3 4 oz (approx. one-half cup) for an average human adult.
SECTION 10 ECOLOGICAL INFORMATION
Data being evaluated.
SECTION 11 - EXPOSURE CONTROL AND PROTECTION
VENTILATION Use forced-air ventilation when handling product in a confined area
RESPIRATORY PROTECTION Not normally needed during intended usage and handling. However, if
exposure causes irritation during routine or non-routine application of product, use NIOSH/MSHA approved
respiratory protection (refer to 29CFR 1910.134).
PROTECTIVE GLOVES Rubber or PVC (refer to 29CFR 1910.132)
OTHER PROTECTIVE EQUIPMENT Wear eye protection and full cover shirt and pants to protect against
exposure. Provide local emergency showers and eyewash stations in the workplace
OTHER ENGINEERING CONTROLS Use local exhaust to minimize mist or vapor levels in the work area.
WORK PRACTICES All users should consult MSDS before handling this material.
HYGIENIC PRACTICES Wash hands and face after using this product. Remove contaminated clothing
Launder contaminated clothing before re-use.
SECTION 12 HANDLING AND STORAGE
PRECAUTIONS TO BE TAKEN IN HANDLING AND STORAGE Store in a cool, dry place. Keep all
containers closed when not in use.
SECTION 13 - SPECIAL PRECAUTIONS
MAINTENANCE PRECAUTIONS None
EVANS MATERIAL SAFETY DATA SHEET NPG+
Cooling Systems, Inc.
02/11/2003 EVANS COOLING SYSTEMS, INC. Page 4 of 4
Rev A
SECTION 14 OTHER INFORMATION
NOTE: This MSDS is intended to protect personnel during packaging, storage and transport of the product in
bulk quantities. It is recognized that the end-user will most likely handle (and subsequently be exposed to) less
than 10 gallons of the product.
SECTION 15 REGULATORY INFORMATION
COMPONENT INFORMATION: ( U.S.A. and Foreign Patents Pending )
00107-21-1 Ethylene Glycol (66 70%) **
00057-55-6 Propylene Glycol
7732-15-5 Water
- - - - - - Proprietary Corrosion Inhibitor Package <2%
SARA INFORMATION **Ethylene Glycol is regulated under SARA III Section 313 Supplier Notification
Requirements.
TSCA INFORMATION All components of this product are listed in the TSCA Inventory.
DOT INFORMATION
Not Regulated
SECTION 16 HAZARDOUS MATERIAL IDENTIFICATION GUIDE
The follow letter codes refer to personal protective equipment (PPE) recommendations as shown in SECTION 3
of this MSDS, relative to handling hazardous chemical products.
A Safety Glasses
B Safety Glasses, Hand Protection
C Safety Glasses, Hand Protection, Protective Apron
D Full Face Shield, Hand Protection, Protective Apron
E Safety Glasses, Hand Protection, Dust Respirator
F Safety Glasses, Hand Protection, Dust Respirator, Protective Apron
G Safety Glasses, Hand Protection, Vapor Respirator
H Splash Goggles, Hand Protection, Protective Apron, Vapor Respirator
I Safety Glasses, Hand Protection, Dust & Vapor Respirator
J Safety Glasses, Hand Protection, Protective Apron, Dust & Vapor Respirator
K Air Line Hood or Mask, Hand Protection, Full Body Suit, protective Boots
X Unspecified to be determined*
(*special equipment selection for site-specific applications not otherwise shown here)
__________________
Ever wonder why 5 series electrical issues are common and complicated.. Spend time here and you will understand why. http://www.bmw-planet.com/diagrams/r...9new/index.htm

Last edited by gtxragtop; 05-31-2010 at 05:01 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 05-31-2010, 06:26 AM
rtanov rtanov is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: SW Ohio
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 173
Mein Auto: 03 540iA sport; 00 540iA
Yes, the very high viscosity struck me too. This could make it harder to flow through especially in tight spots. Could be a problem or not, you need a CFD analysis to find out for each specific engine. The high viscosity would also make the water pump work at a higher load. As for the winter, I thought it would be better as the engine will warm up faster.
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 05-31-2010, 10:09 AM
chiefwej's Avatar
chiefwej chiefwej is online now
Freude am Fahren
Location: Tucson, AZ
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,293
Mein Auto: 2003 540i/6 //m-tech
Lower temperature viscosity was not a factor in my examination of NPG+. I live in Tucson, where +40 is a cold winter day. But, Evans claims an operating range to -40, so if you folks up near the arctic circle see it as an issue, I suggest you contact them for answers.
__________________
chiefwej 2003 540i ///m-tech 6-speed
Black Sapphire Metallic w/gray

Last edited by chiefwej; 05-31-2010 at 12:17 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 05-31-2010, 06:58 PM
jbrovage jbrovage is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Wyandotte, MI
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 113
Send a message via AIM to jbrovage Send a message via MSN to jbrovage Send a message via Yahoo to jbrovage
Mein Auto: 2000 BMW 540iT
what about the possibility of snapping off the impeller on the water pump, due to the high viscosity ratings? This may be way off base, but don't most big rig semis have engine heaters to avoid the super-high viscosity of oil/diesel/(COOLANT) in colder climates?

I'd absolutely do this if i could be sure it's not going to cause problems with the engine. i love the idea of "no ping" due to improved combustion chamber temps!
__________________
- Jeremy

"I never learned from a man who agreed with me." - Robert A. Heinlein
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 05-31-2010, 11:24 PM
bluebee's Avatar
bluebee bluebee is offline
Seek to understand,^Value
Location: San Jose, California
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 20,321
Mein Auto: 02 BMW 525i M54 auto 130K
Quote:
Originally Posted by chiefwej View Post
NPG+ ... can't be mixed with water or other coolants.
What happens if the NPG+ waterless coolant IS (perhaps accidentally) mixed with water?

Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	npg.gif
Views:	2958
Size:	13.9 KB
ID:	232639  
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 06-01-2010, 10:45 AM
chiefwej's Avatar
chiefwej chiefwej is online now
Freude am Fahren
Location: Tucson, AZ
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,293
Mein Auto: 2003 540i/6 //m-tech
Further reading of the MSDS, it would appear than NPG+ is a proprietary blend of ethylene glycol, propylene glycol, water and corrosion inhibitors. Approximately 69% is ethylene glycol. So it looks like they have taken the traditional (ethylene glycol) coolant mix and replaced the water with mostly propylene glycol. Since the MSDS only gives the approximate % of any hazardous materials (ethylene glycol) in the blend, we have no way of knowing the % of all ingredients. Without this information, specific gravity, heat capacity cannot really be determined. So we are just guessing. Evans "waterless" coolant could even have a small % of water in it. By "waterless" it means you must never add water to it.

Evans makes several other coolants. Since some of the others do require larger capacity pumps and other modifications, and they state that this particular product was designed specifically to be used in stock systems without any modification required, it appears that they have taken the factors of heat capacity and specific gravity into consideration in this blend.

I understand that there will continue to be forum members who won't accept Evans statements. But, there are two things that bother me about that. One, if you don't trust any of their claims, and we don't know the % of the ingredients, where are you getting your information? Two, many of the same people who are afraid of Evans, will go to their local Wal-Mart buy whatever antifreeze is on sale, and dump it in their car's radiator. If you can't trust Evans claims, how do you trust Prestone, Zerex, et al?

For me, I don't want to go through another cooling system overhaul. So I guess I'll be the guinea pig. I have a several hundred mile road trip with the local BMW club, this weekend. It is across the desert and through the mountains to Canyon de Chelly and back. If any problems come up, I'll be posting them.
__________________
chiefwej 2003 540i ///m-tech 6-speed
Black Sapphire Metallic w/gray

Last edited by chiefwej; 06-01-2010 at 11:11 AM.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Forum Navigation
Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 5 Series > E39 (1997 - 2003)
Today's Posts Search
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On



Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:12 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
© 2001-2011 performanceIX, Inc. All Rights Reserved .: guidelines .:. privacy .:. terms