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E39 (1997 - 2003)
The BMW 5-Series (E39 chassis) was introduced in the United States as a 1997 model year car and lasted until the 2004 when the E60 chassis was released. The United States saw several variations including the 525i, 528i, 530i and 540i. -- View the E39 Wiki

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  #76  
Old 06-10-2010, 02:40 PM
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chiefwej chiefwej is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mack View Post
Wow that has to be some sort of record for a rad failure at just 50k. Unbelievable! My little 525i made it to 120 before I did a complete overhaul as a precaution. Can't blame anyone for wanting to avoid doing that more than once. Did you go all stock with replacement parts?
The 540's are subject to a lot more heat than the 6's, and I live in Tucson where it was 104 yesterday, and it's been a cool summer so far.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ztom View Post
Tempting but put a glass of it the freezer, too thick in morning? Hard on pump?
Sure, but my household freezer is only 0, and NPG+ is rated down to -40. At 0 it only thickens a little and it would warm very quickly when the engine was started. Where I live the coldest it ever gets is about +25, so for me.....a non issue.

Those who live in the arctic may want to do further research.
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  #77  
Old 06-10-2010, 07:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh P. View Post
My cooling system was leaking around 55k at t-stat. No explosion TG but I'm sure it wouldn't have been long.
I'm still with all OEM parts except the belt and the T-stat (stuck open at 60K miles). Now I'm at around 82K miles.
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  #78  
Old 06-18-2010, 06:29 PM
wyowolf wyowolf is offline
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Officially joined today!!! Seems to work great... cant really tell any difference, except for the no pressure part...

Thanks Chief!!
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  #79  
Old 06-18-2010, 07:51 PM
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Chief,
My hat's off to you for taking a stand against the tyranny of overlooked systems engineering. And thank you for answering all the questions. If this thing works we'll all be customers.
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  #80  
Old 06-19-2010, 01:08 PM
wyowolf wyowolf is offline
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Day two and the car has yet to melt down. I did notice something, I am running appx 2 degrees cooler then previous. before it was almost exactly 108-109 now its 105-106. Just wondering if anyone else has notice this...
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  #81  
Old 06-21-2010, 10:06 AM
franka franka is offline
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What is the payoff, the benefit of this expensive mod?
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  #82  
Old 06-21-2010, 10:55 AM
wyowolf wyowolf is offline
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Hopefully not having my super engineered cooling system blow itself up at an inopportune time....
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  #83  
Old 06-21-2010, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Mack View Post
Wow that has to be some sort of record for a rad failure at just 50k.
Mine failed at 42K. I even wrote ab it here in a thread where the OP lost his under 50K.
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  #84  
Old 06-21-2010, 11:58 AM
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There goes classic Franka sarcasm again. Prop I'd have to guess the best thing about the the trani failing so early is that it's still WELL within manufacturer warranty. I'd rather it fail at 42 or 50k than 110k!
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  #85  
Old 06-21-2010, 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Mack View Post
Prop I'd have to guess the best thing about the the trani failing so early is that it's still WELL within manufacturer warranty. I'd rather it fail at 42 or 50k than 110k!
Pretty sure you meant radi as that is our topic du jour. Of course, I bought a Zionsville when I did all the upgrades. I don't think about it at all, now.

Well, that and the fact that I'm now at 55K- Just 13k miles over the past 6 years.
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  #86  
Old 06-21-2010, 03:58 PM
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Jason5driver Jason5driver is offline
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Originally Posted by PropellerHead View Post
Pretty sure you meant radi as that is our topic du jour. Of course, I bought a Zionsville when I did all the upgrades. I don't think about it at all, now.

Well, that and the fact that I'm now at 55K- Just 13k miles over the past 6 years.
Since you don't drive your car much, I would be happy to take it out for a spin to keep the blood pumping...
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  #87  
Old 06-21-2010, 05:16 PM
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LOL damn talk about a garage queen. Jason is really a giver lately.
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  #88  
Old 06-22-2010, 09:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Mack View Post
There goes classic Franka sarcasm again. !
Its not sarcasm. Its a simple question. Its an expensive mod so what is the benefit?
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  #89  
Old 06-22-2010, 10:09 AM
Mark@EAC Mark@EAC is offline
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The benefit is that the system operates at around roughly 20PSI with normal coolant, stressing every component and causing leaks at the weak points. If you take away that pressure then the system is under significantly less stress, lasting much longer and will not leak when hot. You've seen the threads with the e39 radiators that have blown out the upper hose neck have you not? You have seen the "mystery coolant loss" threads, yes?

Why do you suppose these cars suffer from leaks that are hard to find? Because with a pinhole the system does not leak when cold, only when the coolant has been heated and expands putting pressure on every hose, fitting and part in the system.

I'm all for questioning any fluid we put in our cars. This seems like a winner to me though if the facts are indeed true. Might just take work from me though, no more exploded radiators to change on a saturday afternoon. I suppose I can live with that.

Some smart person needs to develop their own brand of this stuff and sell it at reasonable prices. Of course if you look at it another way- is 100 dollars worth knowing your car will probably never have a cooling system failure?
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  #90  
Old 06-22-2010, 10:15 AM
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chiefwej chiefwej is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark@EACTuning View Post
The benefit is that the system operates at around roughly 30PSI with normal coolant, stressing every component and causing leaks at the weak points. If you take away that pressure then the system is under significantly less stress, lasting much longer and will not leak when hot. You've seen the threads with the e39 radiators that have blown out the upper hose neck have you not? You have seen the "mystery coolant loss" threads, yes?

Why do you suppose these cars suffer from leaks that are hard to find? Because with a pinhole the system does not leak when cold, only when the coolant has been heated and expands putting pressure on every hose, fitting and part in the system.

I'm all for questioning any fluid we put in our cars. This seems like a winner to me though if the facts are indeed true. Might just take work from me though, no more exploded radiators to change on a saturday afternoon. I suppose I can live with that.

Some smart person needs to develop their own brand of this stuff and sell it at reasonable prices. Of course if you look at it another way- is 100 dollars worth knowing your car will probably never have a cooling system failure?
Corrected (2 bar = 29.00754746133 psi)

Last edited by chiefwej; 06-22-2010 at 10:18 AM. Reason: precision
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  #91  
Old 06-22-2010, 10:15 AM
Mark@EAC Mark@EAC is offline
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I said roughly didn't I? The expansion tank cap is rated at 2 bar or approx. 30PSI, so the system will run somewhere south of 30PSI before the cap vents excess pressure.

Last edited by Mark@EAC; 06-22-2010 at 10:17 AM.
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  #92  
Old 06-22-2010, 10:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by franka View Post
Its not sarcasm. Its a simple question. Its an expensive mod so what is the benefit?
1. No more cooling failures = no more cooling overhauls which results in saved $$ and time
2. As long as it's cheaper than at least one cooling overhaul theoretically it "should" be worth it. Assuming it works as expected.

If nothing else it's damn interesting and I'll enjoy following the results if Chief reports back every coupla months.
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  #93  
Old 06-22-2010, 10:50 AM
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doru doru is offline
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2 questions:
Would you replace the waterpump before doing this, assuming the pump is OEM and the bearing might fail soon (not sure how long this "soon" is: months, years from now? if so how many?) Any other parts that might be iffy aside from the fan & clutch?

Could not find any significant info for cold weather. Would you need a sturdier waterpump - like the Stewart - or would the regular one handle a more viscous fluid at an almost consistent -20C (-4F)ambient for days? Also, we have the odd -40 to close to -50C bursts.(-40F to -58F). It sais that it freezes at -40F. So how thick would it be @ -35F? Obviously I would have to keep it garaged if the forecast is too low for temp.
How thick would the fluid be? This is my only concern - can the waterpump push the cold "molasses" from the rad?
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Last edited by doru; 06-22-2010 at 10:52 AM.
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  #94  
Old 06-22-2010, 11:07 AM
wyowolf wyowolf is offline
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I did this a few days ago, replaced all the heater hoses and the valley pan and WP. Rad is two years old as are rad hoses. So i should be good to go. Chief is right, i get barely any pressure after running in 95 degree days... actually i cant tell any difference except that I seem to run a Degree or two cooler... usually 108-9 now 106-7... not sure why.

Thanks Chief if not for you i wouldnt have found this...
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  #95  
Old 06-22-2010, 11:28 AM
franka franka is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mack View Post
1. No more cooling failures = no more cooling overhauls which results in saved $$ and time
2. As long as it's cheaper than at least one cooling overhaul theoretically it "should" be worth it. Assuming it works as expected.

If nothing else it's damn interesting and I'll enjoy following the results if Chief reports back every coupla months.

The water pump, thermostat, hoses etc will wear at the same rate. Reducing the system's pressure will not prevent that wear. The operating temperature is the same as with water. The system's heat contributes to wear as it does when running OEM coolant.

For example, the bearings in my not too old replaced water pump failed, crashing the impeller into its housing and twisting the water pump forward driving the fan into the radiator. The super fluid would not have prevented this occurance.

Minor or major failures in the cooling system will leak expensive fluid ranging from 1/2 liter to 1/2 of all the fluid in the system. Oouuch.
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Last edited by franka; 06-22-2010 at 11:32 AM.
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  #96  
Old 06-22-2010, 11:31 AM
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doru doru is offline
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Franka, what make of waterpump did you use, OEM or HEPU or other brand?
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  #97  
Old 06-22-2010, 12:12 PM
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chiefwej chiefwej is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doru View Post
2 questions:
Would you replace the waterpump before doing this, assuming the pump is OEM and the bearing might fail soon (not sure how long this "soon" is: months, years from now? if so how many?) Any other parts that might be iffy aside from the fan & clutch?

Could not find any significant info for cold weather. Would you need a sturdier waterpump - like the Stewart - or would the regular one handle a more viscous fluid at an almost consistent -20C (-4F)ambient for days? Also, we have the odd -40 to close to -50C bursts.(-40F to -58F). It sais that it freezes at -40F. So how thick would it be @ -35F? Obviously I would have to keep it garaged if the forecast is too low for temp.
How thick would the fluid be? This is my only concern - can the waterpump push the cold "molasses" from the rad?
Evans Does not freeze at -40. They rate it for use to that temp. They say that unlike a water mixture that freezes into a solid and expands (breaking blocks and other parts) it just thickens into a kind of "slush" with no expansion below that temp. As to viscosity and suitability for very cold climates, I suggest you contact Evans directly with your questions.
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  #98  
Old 06-22-2010, 12:24 PM
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chiefwej chiefwej is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by franka View Post
The water pump, thermostat, hoses etc will wear at the same rate. Reducing the system's pressure will not prevent that wear. The operating temperature is the same as with water. The system's heat contributes to wear as it does when running OEM coolant.

For example, the bearings in my not too old replaced water pump failed, crashing the impeller into its housing and twisting the water pump forward driving the fan into the radiator. The super fluid would not have prevented this occurance.

Minor or major failures in the cooling system will leak expensive fluid ranging from 1/2 liter to 1/2 of all the fluid in the system. Oouuch.
I did a cooling system overhaul (OEM pump) before changing to NPG+. The water pump is the only mechanical part of the system likely to fail. No one is suggesting that this will make the pump last longer, but reduced pressure should dramatically increase the life of every other part of the cooling system.

The most common failures are the radiator and expansion tank. The cost of an NPG+ fill (over BMW coolant) is $52 (about 1/3 the price of a radiator), and a complete cooling system refresh will cost over ten times the cost, just in parts.

Then the issue of piece of mind. It's either NPG+ or Zionville.
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Last edited by chiefwej; 06-22-2010 at 12:42 PM.
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  #99  
Old 06-22-2010, 12:29 PM
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Hey Chief did you happen to install the performance water pump with metal impeller?
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  #100  
Old 06-22-2010, 12:30 PM
franka franka is offline
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Originally Posted by doru View Post
Franka, what make of waterpump did you use, OEM or HEPU or other brand?
I don't know which brand it was, sorry
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