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E39 (1997 - 2003)
The BMW 5-Series (E39 chassis) was introduced in the United States as a 1997 model year car and lasted until the 2004 when the E60 chassis was released. The United States saw several variations including the 525i, 528i, 530i and 540i. -- View the E39 Wiki

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  #26  
Old 10-07-2010, 08:32 PM
repcapale repcapale is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cn90 View Post
Actually Jason,

Whether the car is a 1960, 1970 Chevy, Ford or 2003 BMW, the principle is the same, it needs oil lubrication.
So whether it is "old" vs " modern" car, the concept of "dry start" is still there.

The American car guru Larry Carley's article mentioned it:
http://www.aa1car.com/library/us1097.htm
Quote: Install a new oil filter and fill it with oil (this does not work with filters that mount sideways on the engine unfortunately) to eliminate the delay in lubrication that normally occurs when the engine is first started after replacing the filter.


The E39 filter design is cartridge type but if you look at spin-on filter (like Honda Accord), many people don't care about dry start, they change the oil filter. They don't even prime the oil filter. They start the engine and waits 5-6 seconds until the oil light goes out.
The question is: is this period of 5-6 seconds with no oil do any harm to the engine?

The debate is on all the time to prime or not to prime:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...=310528&page=1

But given the fact that priming an oil filter is so simple in a Honda Accord: just pour oil in the filter until it is about 1" from the lip, then install the oil filter and run engine. The E39 oil filter design makes it a bit more challenging to prime it. However, if I prime it, my oil light goes out within 2 seconds after an oil change.

BMW Oil Housing (see pic above) has an "anti-drain back valve" to prevent the oil from going back down into the crankcase from day to day operation.
Many other car filters (Honda, Toyota, Volvo etc.) spin-on filters have an "anti-drain back valve" built right into the oil filter itself.

So indirectly, these car mfg's (BMW, Honda, Toyota, Volvo etc.) admit that dry start is no good!

The bigger question is: do we think "dry start" is bad (most engine wear and tear happens during cold start)?

My 2 cents is:
- If you love your car (and paranoid about it LOL), then prime the oil filter, it is so easy to do.
- If you don't care about priming, then don't prime it. You probably won't see any engine damage attributable to dry start during the typical service life of 150-200K miles.

Many old-schooled hard-core mechanics used to disable the ignition, crank the car for 5-10 seconds after an oil change to prime the oil filter. Then re-attach the ignition.
This priming thing is ridicolous. I am usually really paranoid but this does not worry me one bit. Normal people have never even heard of this and their cars last just as long. Probably even longer. The guys doing the oil changes at these shops probably dont even know what an oil filter is, yet alone that you should be priming it. So I think theres more important things to worry about.
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  #27  
Old 10-07-2010, 08:40 PM
cn90 cn90 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by repcapale View Post
This priming thing is ridiculous. I am usually really paranoid but this does not worry me one bit. Normal people have never even heard of this and their cars last just as long. Probably even longer. The guys doing the oil changes at these shops probably dont even know what an oil filter is, yet alone that you should be priming it. So I think there aremore important things to worry about.
I took the liberty to fix your typo errors above....

"Normal" people never heard about this because they never studied gasoline engine theory.

While I agree with you that even w/o priming, it is fine because the engine only runs without oil pressure for only 4-5 seconds. So on the long term, probably makes little difference.
On the other hand, priming an oil filter is easy like 1-2-3, so why not? It costs you nothing.
Studies have shown that most engine wear and tear happens at start-up, so anything done to prevent this is strongly recommended.

The car enthusiasts prime the oil filter (just do a google search).
"Normal" people do not prime oil filter.

Last edited by cn90; 10-07-2010 at 08:42 PM.
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  #28  
Old 10-30-2010, 03:39 PM
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Subscribing to this excellent thread.

Related question -- anything wrong with Bosch filters? They are available locally.
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  #29  
Old 10-31-2010, 08:45 PM
kleptonite kleptonite is offline
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Good post thanks used this to help change my oil for the first time myself.
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  #30  
Old 11-01-2010, 06:40 AM
wolfen wolfen is offline
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Everyone on this thread sh0ould just buy a pella oil vacuum and do the change top side through the oil dip stick.
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  #31  
Old 11-01-2010, 07:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfen View Post
Everyone on this thread sh0ould just buy a pella oil vacuum and do the change top side through the oil dip stick.
If you opt for oil extraction, see:
- Why I don't recommend the Motive Vacuum Oil Extractor ...
- cn90 DIY - BMW E39 Oil & Filter Change (vacuum extraction method):
- cn90 DIY: Drill Pump Oil Extractor (vs Motive Vacuum Extractor)

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  #32  
Old 11-02-2010, 04:54 AM
wolfen wolfen is offline
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Originally Posted by bluebee View Post


This is the way i have been doing it for a while and never a problem. In fact about 2 weeks ago i did my oil pan gasket and pumped all the oil out THEN dropped them pan. The Verdict? The oil pan was completely and i mean COMPLETELY dry. All i had to do was wipe the inside of it with a paper towel to dry it before reinstalling a new gasket set.

I have definitively proved that the vacuum gets 100% of the oil out, end of story. The traditionalists will just have to live with it.

EDIT: I have a Pella Extractor and it's very heavy duty, it would never collapse like that. It would crack before it collapsed in that manner. Too thick. Sucks everything out with a slurp at the end like finishing a big gulp

Last edited by wolfen; 11-02-2010 at 04:55 AM.
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  #33  
Old 11-02-2010, 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted by wolfen View Post
This is the way i have been doing it for a while and never a problem. In fact about 2 weeks ago i did my oil pan gasket and pumped all the oil out THEN dropped them pan. The Verdict? The oil pan was completely and i mean COMPLETELY dry. All i had to do was wipe the inside of it with a paper towel to dry it before reinstalling a new gasket set.

I have definitively proved that the vacuum gets 100% of the oil out, end of story. The traditionalists will just have to live with it.

EDIT: I have a Pella Extractor and it's very heavy duty, it would never collapse like that. It would crack before it collapsed in that manner. Too thick. Sucks everything out with a slurp at the end like finishing a big gulp

+1, but I use mity vac 7201. It really sucks, perfect for my ML (that needs 8.5 Quart) and the bimmer. Done this many times all in the comfort of my PJ inside the garage, no jacking necessary.
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  #34  
Old 11-02-2010, 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by wolfen View Post
EDIT: I have a Pella Extractor and it's very heavy duty, it would never collapse like that. It would crack before it collapsed in that manner. Too thick. Sucks everything out with a slurp at the end like finishing a big gulp
Which model do you have? http://www.pelaproducts.com/ I've been considering buying an oil extractor. How do you clean both the container and tubing after each use?
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  #35  
Old 11-05-2010, 10:46 AM
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Cnn-
I know this is probably a stupid question, but...
The Bentley says to drain the oil with the car level, which is what I do.
I set my car on 2 jack stands and ramps.

Is there a problem draining the oil with just the front of the car raised on ramps?
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  #36  
Old 11-05-2010, 11:36 AM
cn90 cn90 is offline
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Good question though.

The slope created (maybe 2-3 degrees) by the wood ramps actually helps with the drainage since the drain bolt is located in the Rear of the Sump.

However, for the next oil change, I plan to drive BOTH LEFT Front and Rear wheels on ramps (instead of Front wheels on ramps).
This will tilt the drain bolt (located on passenger side of the Sump) for better drainage.
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  #37  
Old 11-05-2010, 12:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by genuity View Post
Which model do you have? http://www.pelaproducts.com/ I've been considering buying an oil extractor. How do you clean both the container and tubing after each use?
Why in the world would you bother to clean it ???

You`re never gonna put anything except dirty motor oil in it....
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  #38  
Old 11-05-2010, 01:40 PM
wolfen wolfen is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by genuity View Post
Which model do you have? http://www.pelaproducts.com/ I've been considering buying an oil extractor. How do you clean both the container and tubing after each use?
I have the Pella 650. I never clean it and it stays looking very clean inside and out. It's a nice quality unit made of thick plastic.

I also installed an ON/OFF valve on the unit so that i can pump a vacuum and hold it. Then i can release it with a turn of a valve and stop it at will. Very useful when hooked up to the bleeder on a caliper. I can suck out old fluid in very precise increments by operating the valve and so as not to overdraw the reservoir.

Last edited by wolfen; 11-05-2010 at 01:43 PM.
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  #39  
Old 11-05-2010, 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted by cn90 View Post
Good question though.

The slope created (maybe 2-3 degrees) by the wood ramps actually helps with the drainage since the drain bolt is located in the Rear of the Sump.

However, for the next oil change, I plan to drive BOTH LEFT Front and Rear wheels on ramps (instead of Front wheels on ramps).
This will tilt the drain bolt (located on passenger side of the Sump) for better drainage.
This sounds weird, like a stunt car driver maneuver...
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  #40  
Old 11-05-2010, 03:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cn90 View Post
Good question though.

The slope created (maybe 2-3 degrees) by the wood ramps actually helps with the drainage since the drain bolt is located in the Rear of the Sump.

However, for the next oil change, I plan to drive BOTH LEFT Front and Rear wheels on ramps (instead of Front wheels on ramps).
This will tilt the drain bolt (located on passenger side of the Sump) for better drainage.
That could be a trick to get the rear wheel up the ramp driving forward....how low is the ramp?..I doubt it will go under the car. I would just jack that side of the car up, and use jack stands.
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  #41  
Old 11-05-2010, 09:08 PM
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My wood ramp has 3 layers, so 3 x 1.5" = 4.5" tall.
Absolutely no problem driving both wheels on the same side (such as Both LF and LR tires) up the ramps.
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  #42  
Old 01-15-2011, 11:51 AM
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Thanks again for useful thread. Took me more than one finger to get canister moving!
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  #43  
Old 01-15-2011, 12:01 PM
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Thanks again for useful thread. Took me more than one finger to get canister moving!
No kidding. I broke both mine and my grandfathers. Seems extended intervals weld the thing, it feels so tough. At least that's what I'm guessing.
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  #44  
Old 01-22-2011, 09:08 AM
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Blue (or anyone else) -- while resetting oil lights, I also set my car temperature displays to Celsius.

Not that big a deal and kinda funny actually, but I'd like to switch back to F. Would you have the sequence handy?
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  #45  
Old 01-22-2011, 09:16 AM
cn90 cn90 is offline
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...but I'd like to switch back to F. Would you have the sequence handy?
Edgy,

I am afraid people will tell you to search.
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  #46  
Old 01-22-2011, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Fast Bob View Post
Why in the world would you bother to clean it ???
You`re never gonna put anything except dirty motor oil in it....
I didn't clean my Motive Vacuum Extractor and the dirty oil in the hose caused the hose to fall off in two years (which is another reason not to recommend the Motive Vacuum Extractor).

So I cleaned the tank and hoses with gasoline ... which works perfectly.

Then I rinsed with a garden hose to get (most of) the gas smell out.

And I left the whole mess outside for a few days (to get the rest of the gas smell out).

Funny thing ... I haven't used it since ... because now I just use gravity drain.

For me, the gravity drain is far easier and less trouble than the Motive Extraction Method - but if I had a different vacuum extractor, I might feel differently.
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  #47  
Old 01-22-2011, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by cn90 View Post
I am afraid people will tell you to search.
The search keywords are a bit ambiguous unfortunately.
Plus, there are a few locations where the temperature is displayed.
That makes things kind'a confusing.

I generically looked in the VERY best of E39 Links and found only this:
- Temperature display scales, changing from Celcius to Fahrenheit, by Q

Then, I ran a generic search on this E39 forum and found just this:
- Celcius to Fahrenheit (for an E39), by desihotboy
- Celcius to Fahrenheit (for an E39), by blank6000

And, on other forums here, I found this:
- Deg C to Deg F (for an E36), by JPDLK

Then in google, another generic search found these:
- 97 540, To Change Ambient & HVAC Temp Scale, by QSilver7
- Changing Celsius to Fahrenheit on Dash Thermometer (for an E39), by hrumph
- How do I change Celsius to Fahrenheit (for an M5), by gourmet
- 1997 528i e39 centigrade from fahrenheit(FIXED), by lurch180
- how do you change from fahrenheit to celsius? (BMW E39), by tej
- Change Climate control from Celsius to Farenheit?, (BMW E36), by OregonMTB

I did not read any of these ... but ... so as not to waste the effort ...

Chris ... would you look at these and let us know which to put in the VERY best of E39 Links so that others with the same question have the benefit of standing on our shoulders?

As always, any search brings up more questions than it initially answers.
The question I have now is HOW MANY temperature readings are there?

Here are some that I know of (but I'm sure there are more):
- Outside air ambient temperature sensor (OBC)
- HVAC/IHKA cabin temperature setting (below the MID)
- Instrument cluster coolant KTMP reading (OBC)
- Instrument cluster oil temperature reading (OBC)
- ? what else ?

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  #48  
Old 01-22-2011, 11:19 AM
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Chris ... here's my attempt at consolidating the E39 links above:
- How to change OBC MID IHKA KTMP temperature from degrees Celcius to Fahrenheit (1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) (7) (8)

As I said, I only skimmed these threads so since you need to perform the task, you can help us either re-order these or to find the one link that covers all of what is needed.

We would probably want to cover all the temperatures that can be seen and/or changed.

Please take a look at those 8 links and let us know how to order them for the bestlinks reference for the future.
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  #49  
Old 01-22-2011, 08:34 PM
ahay5 ahay5 is offline
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Very well put write-up. Will refer to this in the future. I also like the title.
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  #50  
Old 01-22-2011, 08:51 PM
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Wow - I've read this post & related threads, and still need to study the basic oil change on my 528.

Got me thinking - I've done >100 oil changes in my life, and this car is something new. (personal car/friends cars, worked at garages, and a stint @ Firestone)

NEVER even considered an oil extractor - seems like it might be the way to go on this car. My instinct says ramps & drain plug. Never dealt with an oil filter like this either - should be a lot easier. I even have a toolbox just for oil changes.

Thks for the info.
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