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  #1  
Old 11-17-2003, 10:38 AM
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FrenchBoy FrenchBoy is offline
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Why the E60 has classic BMW design elements...

For all those who shout and cry about the E60 design, I though it was interesting to put side-by-side the 2002 - arguably the BMW model that started it all, at least in America - and the E60, and compare some of the design elements. It is striking so see how many cues the E60 got from the pre-80's BMWs.

Skipping through the obvious and well-known double-kidney grille, quad-headlamps, and Hofmeister kink, the following traits are clear heritage from the classic BMWs:
- The horizontal crease running the entire perimeter of the car. It starts above the grille on the front, continues above the headlamps, sharply turns on the fender and runs along the entire length of the car, effectively cutting the car horizontally in 2 halves.
- Turn signal indicators located on above the headlamps and to the side, stretching along the top of the front fenders. The top part of turn signal is flush with the horizontal crease.
- Hood opening line above the double kidney grille.

In essence, the new E60 is a moder interpretation of the classic BMWs of the 60's and 70's.

FrenchBoy
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  #2  
Old 11-17-2003, 11:22 AM
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Kaz Kaz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrenchBoy
- The horizontal crease running the entire perimeter of the car. It starts above the grille on the front, continues above the headlamps, sharply turns on the fender and runs along the entire length of the car, effectively cutting the car horizontally in 2 halves.
This is the one major one I take exception to. On '02s through the E9 coupe, this 'crease' was in fact a rather sizable lip augmented by molding. Starting with the E12, this became an undercut that ran down the length of the body. This undercut continued all the way through the E53. You don't see a body line done this way very often, and IMO, is just as distinctive a BMW trademark as the kink or the quad lights. It started going away on the E46 sedan facelift in 02, as this ended this line just forward of the front door, where the side marker takes over, and doesn't continue to the front (the E53 and E46M3 started life with this ending early, but they have the big fender flaring that wouldn't really be compatible anyhow). The flame-surfaced cars replaced this with a generic crease that every other car the last 10 years has.
  #3  
Old 11-17-2003, 12:08 PM
Malachi Malachi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrenchBoy
In essence, the new E60 is a moder interpretation of the classic BMWs of the 60's and 70's.

FrenchBoy
Wow, what a stretch

Sorry, I don't see any resemblance. I think that is an insult to the 2002.
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Last edited by Malachi; 11-17-2003 at 12:11 PM.
  #4  
Old 11-17-2003, 12:29 PM
bluer1 bluer1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaz
This is the one major one I take exception to. On '02s through the E9 coupe, this 'crease' was in fact a rather sizable lip augmented by molding. Starting with the E12, this became an undercut that ran down the length of the body. This undercut continued all the way through the E53. You don't see a body line done this way very often, and IMO, is just as distinctive a BMW trademark as the kink or the quad lights. It started going away on the E46 sedan facelift in 02, as this ended this line just forward of the front door, where the side marker takes over, and doesn't continue to the front (the E53 and E46M3 started life with this ending early, but they have the big fender flaring that wouldn't really be compatible anyhow). The flame-surfaced cars replaced this with a generic crease that every other car the last 10 years has.
IIRC, it's called the "sicke" line (per Roundel). Much like "the kink," it's been a compulsory design element for years.
  #5  
Old 11-17-2003, 01:59 PM
my1stbmw my1stbmw is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malachi
Wow, what a stretch

Sorry, I don't see any resemblance. I think that is an insult to the 2002.
i see you've got an E39.... those E60 are just plain ugly, aren't they?
  #6  
Old 11-17-2003, 02:21 PM
Malachi Malachi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by my1stbmw
i see you've got an E39.... those E60 are just plain ugly, aren't they?

IMHO yes they are. My wife likes it though. Why did you buy yours, performance, looks, ...?

What did you compare it against?
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  #7  
Old 11-17-2003, 04:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaz
This is the one major one I take exception to. On '02s through the E9 coupe, this 'crease' was in fact a rather sizable lip augmented by molding. Starting with the E12, this became an undercut that ran down the length of the body. This undercut continued all the way through the E53. You don't see a body line done this way very often, and IMO, is just as distinctive a BMW trademark as the kink or the quad lights. It started going away on the E46 sedan facelift in 02, as this ended this line just forward of the front door, where the side marker takes over, and doesn't continue to the front (the E53 and E46M3 started life with this ending early, but they have the big fender flaring that wouldn't really be compatible anyhow). The flame-surfaced cars replaced this with a generic crease that every other car the last 10 years has.
I disagree with you.

In the E60, the "sicke" line (thanks bluer1 for the term) is far more reminiscent of the original lip between the top and bottom part of the body. The sharp angle on the E60 flanks is a more prominent definition of the shape of the car.
This is in opposition of the little crease that runs along the side of the BMW's designed 80's and 90's as an attempt to REMIND us of the original lip.

The uninterrupted sicke line on the E60 is in that sense a great homage to the BMWs of the 60s and 70s.

FrenchBoy
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  #8  
Old 11-17-2003, 05:46 PM
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LmtdSlip LmtdSlip is offline
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I dont see it at all.

The 2002 had a very tight almost sparse design that gave the car its sporting character. Which is what BMW became known for. By contrast the new E60 is ungainly and heavy looking. Very slab sided and over grown.

A fairer comparison might have pitted the Bavaria against the E60. But my argument would be similar.
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  #9  
Old 11-17-2003, 07:31 PM
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beware_phog beware_phog is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrenchBoy
For all those who shout and cry about the E60 design, I though it was interesting to put side-by-side the 2002 - arguably the BMW model that started it all, at least in America - and the E60, and compare some of the design elements. It is striking so see how many cues the E60 got from the pre-80's BMWs.

Skipping through the obvious and well-known double-kidney grille, quad-headlamps, and Hofmeister kink, the following traits are clear heritage from the classic BMWs:
- The horizontal crease running the entire perimeter of the car. It starts above the grille on the front, continues above the headlamps, sharply turns on the fender and runs along the entire length of the car, effectively cutting the car horizontally in 2 halves.
- Turn signal indicators located on above the headlamps and to the side, stretching along the top of the front fenders. The top part of turn signal is flush with the horizontal crease.
- Hood opening line above the double kidney grille.

In essence, the new E60 is a moder interpretation of the classic BMWs of the 60's and 70's.

FrenchBoy
Yeah, I think they have the same interior. Probably had some leftover plastic and decided to drop in the E60.
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  #10  
Old 11-17-2003, 08:57 PM
bmw325 bmw325 is offline
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Well, there's no doubt that Bangle and his team intended to pay homage to the pre-80s BMW sedans w/ the designs on the e65 and e60. The elements you picked out were no doubt inspired by the 2002 and its ilk. You could even argue that the trunk cut-lines show some 2002 influence in that they cut along the side of the body.

IN its review of the e60, ROundel pointed out the only explanation they could think of for the hideous eyebrow blinker on the e60 was to echo the 2002 blinker.

Regardless, as others have said, the 2002 works as a design, and the e60 doesn't. There's plenty of explanations and rationalizations you, myself, anyone else or Bangle could come up with to try and justify the e60 and e65-- but that doesn't change the fact that they're just poor designs.
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  #11  
Old 11-17-2003, 10:13 PM
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Plaz Plaz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robg
There's plenty of explanations and rationalizations you, myself, anyone else or Bangle could come up with to try and justify the e60 and e65-- but that doesn't change the fact that they're just poor designs.
It's not fact, it's your opinion.
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  #12  
Old 11-17-2003, 11:24 PM
my1stbmw my1stbmw is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robg
Regardless, as others have said, the 2002 works as a design, and the e60 doesn't. There's plenty of explanations and rationalizations you, myself, anyone else or Bangle could come up with to try and justify the e60 and e65-- but that doesn't change the fact that they're just poor designs.
i would like to hear the "fact" on the design below...

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  #13  
Old 11-18-2003, 09:23 AM
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LmtdSlip LmtdSlip is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robg
Well, there's no doubt that Bangle and his team intended to pay homage to the pre-80s BMW sedans w/ the designs on the e65 and e60. The elements you picked out were no doubt inspired by the 2002 and its ilk. You could even argue that the trunk cut-lines show some 2002 influence in that they cut along the side of the body.

IN its review of the e60, ROundel pointed out the only explanation they could think of for the hideous eyebrow blinker on the e60 was to echo the 2002 blinker.

Regardless, as others have said, the 2002 works as a design, and the e60 doesn't. There's plenty of explanations and rationalizations you, myself, anyone else or Bangle could come up with to try and justify the e60 and e65-- but that doesn't change the fact that they're just poor designs.


These latest designs have led the brand's look down a path that is completely divergant from the one that made BMW what it is today.
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Last edited by LmtdSlip; 11-18-2003 at 09:25 AM.
  #14  
Old 11-18-2003, 11:10 AM
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Ågent99 Ågent99 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LmtdSlip

These latest designs have led the brand's look down a path that is completely divergant from the one that made BMW what it is today.
Perhaps but is that good or bad? We don't know...we are the "enthusiasts" and probably make up only a small percentage of people who buy BMWs. If the E60 sells well, then I guess it is a good divergence.

What are everyone's feelings towards the sale's numbers? Is the E60 selling well, selling poor?

For me, the exterior is growing on me although the trunk is still a sore spot. I still hate the interior quite a bit. Have I driven one? No. I am almost scared to since I am sure it will be so bloody awesome. 2006 is the year I project that a new BMW will be in my driveway...probably a 545i/6. Time will tell....

Chris
  #15  
Old 11-18-2003, 12:30 PM
Lomag Lomag is offline
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Sales are up, up, and away but thats because its a new model. We'll have to wait atleast 3 full model years or more to determine the actual sales trend.
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