What differential fluid do you use in your E39?

Originally Posted by Hooray!

IMO do the rear diff with the ATF at 50/60,000 miles. You are correct, it could likely go more miles but why bother when you are talking about $12 worth of gear oil and 20 minutes under the car.

ATF in the rear diff? Why would you do that? ATF does not have any high pressure additives which are required for hypoid gears.

Originally Posted by 01BMW525i

Q: What type of fluid is the best for the A/T?

You need to state what transmission you have. It would also be helpful to know also what color the sticker on that transmission is.

Once we know that, we just apply the formula to tell you which fluid to use.

- Manual transmission (yellow sticker): BMW PN: 83.22.9.408.942 or MTF-LT-1 (manual transmission fluid, lifetime, I'm not sure what the "1" means) Bentley page 020-10 & 020-30. [Volume: See chart below.] Replacement Interval: Lifetime oil (Bentley 230-6). A user-recommended fluid is "Royal Purple Synchromax 1512 manual transmission fluid" & Redline MT-90; the user-recommended replacement interval is roughly 5 years or about 60K miles.
- Manual transmission (orange sticker): The Bentleys, on page 200-4, simply say "ATF" (aka ATF-Oil). Nothing more. Note: This orange sticker is not mentioned in the Bentleys page 020-10 & 020-30 but is noted on page 200-4. Replacement Interval: Lifetime oil (Bentley 230-6); but the user-recommended replacement interval is roughly 5 years or about 60K miles.
- Automatic transmission (green sticker): BMW PN: 83.22.0.024.359 or Texaco ETL 8072B or Shell LA2634 (this is extremely confusing, not only because these are cryptic "types" but also because the Bentleys list different fluids and volumes on page 020-10, 240-6, & 240-8). [Volume w/o torque converter/with torque converter, see chart below]. Replacement Interval: Lifetime oil (Bentley 240-6); but the user-recommended replacement interval for the fluid and filter is roughly 5 years or about 60K miles. Apparently Pentosin is the OEM oil but FEBI also works (ATF Auto Transmission Fluid equivalent to ESSO LT 71141). Note: Mixing ATF types will cause transmission failure (Bentley 240-6). My 2002 525i with the ZF 5HP19 (aka A5S 325Z) transmission (6.2 liters/8.9 liters or 6.6 quarts/9.4 quarts) has this green sticker.
- Automatic transmission (black sticker): Dexron III ATF (realistically Dexron VI ATF) BMW PN: 83.22.9.407.807 or Exxon LT-71141 which seems to also be called Esso LT-71141) (all this is extremely confusing, not only because these are cryptic "types", but also because the Bentleys list different fluids on page 020-10 than on page 240-6). [Volume w/o torque converter/with torque converter, see chart below]. Replacement Interval: Lifetime oil (Bentley 240-6); but the user-recommended replacement interval for the fluid and filter is roughly 5 years or about 60K miles. Note: Mixing ATF types will cause transmission failure (Bentley 240-6). Some users suggest Mobil1 Synthetic ATF.

See this thread for complete details on fluids, torques, volumes, locations, etc and to find which transmission is in your model E39:
Manual transmissions:
BMW 525i 2001-2002 M52TU, M54: Getrag S5D 250G, 1.2 quarts (1.1 liters)
BMW 540i 1997-2002 M62: ZF/Getrag S6S 420G, 2.0 quarts (1.9 liters)
BMW 528i 1997-2002 M52: ZF S5D 320Z, 1.4 quarts (1.3 liters)
BMW 530i 2001-2002 M54: ZF S5D 320Z, 1.4 quarts (1.3 liters)

Automatic transmissions:
GM THM-R1 (A4S 270R), 9.3 quarts/8.2 quarts (8.8 liters/7.8 liters)
BMW 528i to 9/1999 M52: GM THM-R1 (A4S 310R), 9.3 quarts/8.2 quarts (8.8 liters/7.8 liters)
BMW 528i from 9/1999: GM 5L40-E/GM5 (A5S 360R), 9.5 quarts/8.5 quarts (9.0 liters/8.0 liters)
BMW 525i to 3/2001 M54: GM 5L40-E/GM5 (A5S 390R), 9.5 quarts/8.5 quarts (9.0 liters/8.0 liters)
BMW X5 GM 5L40-E/GM5 (A5S 390R), 10.1 quarts/9.1 quarts (9.6 liters/8.6 liters)
BMW 530i to 3/2001 M54: GM 5L40-E/GM5 (A5S 390R), ? quarts/? quarts (? liters/?liters)
ZF 4HP22, 7.9 quarts/3.2 quarts (7.5 liters/3.0 liters)
ZF 4HP24, 8.6 quarts/3.3 quarts (8.1 liters/3.1 liters)
ZF 5HP18 (A5S 310Z), 8.2 quarts/3.4 quarts (7.8 liters/3.2 liters)
BMW 525i from 3/2001 (2.5L M54): ZF 5HP19 (A5S 325Z), 9.4 quarts/6.6 quarts (8.9 liters/6.2 liters)
BMW 530i from 3/2001 (3.0L M54): ZF 5HP19 (A5S 325Z), 9.2 quarts/6.5 quarts (8.7 liters/6.1 liters)
ZF 5HP24 (A5S 440Z) for 4.4 L, 9.5 quarts/5.7 quarts (9.0 liters/5.35 liters)
BMW 540i from 1/1997 M62 TU: ZF 5HP24 (A5S 440Z) for 4.6 L, 10.5 quarts/5.7 quarts (9.9 liters/5.35 liters)
BMW 540i to 1/1997 M62: ZF 5HP30 (A5S 560Z) 13.8 quarts/5.8 quarts (13.1 liters/5.5 liters)

Originally Posted by 01BMW525i

Q: What type of fluid is the best for Diff?

Similar question for the differential; which one do you have?
Once we know that, we just apply the forumula.

- Differential (conventional, i.e., non-limited-slip E39s): The Bentleys specify "BMW SAF-XO synthetic final drive gear oil" which doesn't exist (it's Castrol). The Bentleys don't specify the weight (it's SAE 75W-90); and the Bentleys don't specify the quality (it's API GL-5 hypoid gear oil). Given that, suitable replacements are Amsoil Synthetic Manual Transmission Fluid (MTF) API 75W90,Mobil1, Royal Purple Max-Gear, & Redline SAE 75W90 API GL-5 synthetic gear oils. Unfortunately, there's no way to tell which of the three (3) different differentials you have w/o looking at the numbers molded into the metal. Bentley page 020-11 & 020-26 & 331-6. [Volume: Type G=1.7 quarts, Type 188 Compact=1.1 quarts, Type 220/215 Compact=1.5 quarts.] Replacement Interval: Lifetime fluid (but most recommend replacing differential fluid at the same time you replace transmission fluid, which is about 5 years or roughly 60K miles).
- Differential (limited-slip E39s, such as the M5): BMW SAF-XJ API GL-5 SAE 75W-140 synthetic hypoid final-drive gear oil (aka Castrol SAF-XJ). This requirement is not listed in the Bentley manual; it is gleaned from the Castrol literature and from what is stated about the M5 in this thread below (please correct if necessary). Replacement Interval: Lifetime fluid (but most recommend replacing differential fluid at the same time you replace transmission fluid, which is about 5 years or roughly 60K miles).

Back to the OP, I just put RedLine 75W90 gear oil in, highly recommended by all the research I did... sold by Bavarian Auto among others. Regarding ATF, for a ZF 5HP19 again after alot of research and talking with a few ZF "real" repair facilities (ie torn down hudreds of ZFs), Valvoline MaxLife ($4@qt!) turns out to be the #2 to ESSO/LifeTime and only because ESSO is brown, which is different and MaxLife is red, looks like all ATF. Theory goes from the ZF guys, that down the road a mechanic that finds brown ATF might ask a question or two vs. one that sees red and puts in regular Dextron ATF (not good for a ZF). They went on to say that the MaxLife formula with friction additives and seal conditioners built for over 75,000 mile tranny's seems to work well. For me, hearing that and the fact that at $4@qt (vs. $20@at) I can change the ATF every 30k without blinking.

We need to add the following new information into the recommendations:

Originally Posted by sferley

Bluebee... Just to update your list.. This is from Tis 12/2007

2.0 Hypod oils for differential without lamella self-locking differential (so no M5)
Exception: E30/325iX differential with viscous self-locking differential.

Trade Name:
BMW OSP systhentic differential oil
BMW part number: 83 22 9 407 768
container size: 55-litre barrel

Expressly approved hypoid oils

AGIP HLX
Aral gear oil BS
Castrol SAF-X0
DEA Dearon BHS
FINA Pontonic MS
FINA Pontonic MX
Veedol SAF 66
Mobil Gearlube VS 600
BP Energear SHX
Valvoline HL Plus
Elf TRANSELF BM 75W-90
Shell gear oil OLS-BMW
Wesfalen AG Westfalen Fugo BMO
Motul Hypo Synt
Avia Hypoid 75W-90 EP
Esso gear oil NLS 75W-90
Fuchs TITAN Gear H 75W-90
Schmierstoffraffinerie Salzbergen GmbH Wintershall gear fluid BOS

Note:
The above oils satisfy the demands required of lifetime oils.
Oil change intervals are given in the vehicle-specific inspection sheets.
Before opening the container, "mix" the transmission oil to distribute the additives evenly through the oil. (My guess is just shake the living daylights out of it)

For those wishing to use CASTROL SAF-XO as recommended by BMW ( non limited slip, or open diffs ) I've found the following Land Rover crossreference. See pdf top of page 5.
Land Rover part # LRN 7591
I bought a 32 fl.oz. bottle in Ontario Canada for $11 + tax. Much better than the $25 quoted by the BMW dealership, if I brought my own bottle.
Also note that Land Rover lists several of their differential fluids as 75W-90 GL5 but different brands and products with different L-R part numbers. L-R must think that SAF-XO is not identical to other GL5 lubricants.

For those of us with the ZF auto transmissions spec'd for Esso LT71141, the pdf top of page 4 lists Land Rover part # STC4863
Dealer here has stock & sells for $12.71. Again much better than the BMW dealership or any other source I've found for LT71141.

FWIW, I suspect that US based L-R dealers are selling for less

Regards
RDL

Originally Posted by Graham E39 528i

Mobil 1 75W-90

the same
just because it was easy to find it

RedLine 75W-90 gear oil, I'll now have to check the label, Bavarian Auto sells it specifically for BMWs so I believe it meets the specs bluebee references above too.

Today there was a classic "what differential fluid & how to change it" request:
- Want To Change Differential Fluid in 528i -Couple Easy Questions

To which Jason kindly replied with a nice 525i differential fluid change DIY:
- DIY - E39 525i Fluid Triple Play (PS, diff & tranny fluid change)

Which I will make sure gets into the bestlinks for future reference.

http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/svg.aspx

For the crosslinked record, Doru has some interesting real-world experience to report today on the volume capacity of the E39 differential:
- E39 (1997 - 2003) > Rear differential capacity question

And, for the record, here's what Doru found out about torque specs & oils to use on his 530i differential:

Originally Posted by doru

The easiest differential oil to buy, for me, is Amsoil Severe Gear 75W-90 (SVGQT). It checks out for my car.
Also, make a note, the torque spec for both plugs is 70 Nm as per TIS and Bentley ... The bleed plug on my car was undertorqued from the dealer (based on feel and comparison with the fill plug), and I lost some differential oil over time. If I hadn't changed the oil this weekend, it could have had a catastrophic result.

I have the 530i with the M sport package. Does this mean I have limited slip or open differential?
I have 2 bottles of Mobil 1 Synth gear oil 75W-90 and am now afraid to change the fluid.
If you have limited slip, is it safe to say you MUST use the fluid that says "limited slip" ?
Anyone know if I have limited slip? Last 7 of my VIN = CF01480

Update: Only M3 has limited slip. I'm sure any synth. gear oil is fine.

I have fuchs 75 90 gl5 sitting to be filled , its german aad bmw approved

Originally Posted by bluebee

Thanks. I was worried about the ATF part ... but no more.

We have to ask here because the Bentleys (and BMW) specify only "BMW SAF-XO", which, from googling, apparently doesn't even exist (it's Castrol, not BMW) - and even if it did, they don't specify any equivalent replacements - and even if they did, they don't specify the SAE viscosity nor the API quality to shoot for in a replacement hypoid final-drive gear oil.

So we now have the following final-drive hypoid gear oils:
- BMW SAF-XO synthetic gear oil (does not appear to exist even though it's what is specified in the Bentleys)
- Castrol SAF-XO synthetic gear oil (SAE 75W90, API GL-5)
- Mobil1 synthetic gear oil (SAE 75W90, API GL-5)
- Royal Purple Max-Gear synthetic gear oil (SAE 75W90, API GL-5)
- RedLine synthetic gear oil (SAE 75W90, API GL-5)
- ???what else???

I'm not changing my differential oil; I'm just trying to find the dozen correct fluids for our BMWs and the differential information is confusing.

For the cross-linked record, this was posted recently:
> E39 (1997 - 2003) > Picking Out Rear Diff Oil on Redline cant help but look at the oil?

Originally Posted by JohnathanDM

So Im about to purchase Rear diff Oil for my baby, but i cant help but notice when im looking at the engine oil For my Older Brother's Bentley I saw the "suitable for VW/Audi 503.00 and 503.01, as well as Mercedes Benz 229.3 and 229.5" on 0w30 Oil,Strange saw the same spec's For the 0w30 Castrol And 0w40 Mobil Not to start another oil Thread,But I found it weird also i was Debating to use the New Castrol Synthetic Gear oil?

99-540i,

I use RedLine MTL in my 6-speed, and have no bad things to report. When cold, just like with any Getrag trans, do the 1-2 shift gently. I used it in my E12, and, at 220 k, the trans was still silent, and shifting smoothly.

You'll need two quarts. Wrap the drain plug with Teflon pipe thread tape to prevent weeping.

THe diff takes about 1.5 qts, so you'll need two jugs. Some replace the aluminum sealing washers; you decide.

Well, I am glad that RedLine 75W-90 works well for those of you who are using it. As it was far from satisfying in my case.

After changing to RedLine Gear Oil 75W-90, my mpg initially dropped from ~21 to 18.6. After 1000 miles and some long highway drives it slowly crept back to 19.8, which was RedLine's "personal best" on my car.

But the most annoying thing was that it slowed my car down ! Before the change I've always picked up speed when going downhill, even on slight down slopes. Well, not anymore after the change . And before it was only needed to push the gas pedal every now and then when going straight on a flat road in order to maintain a constant speed. After the change, I had to push the pedal all the time as I could feel the car "braking" the moment I lifted my foot from the gas. It was like somebody was continuously pressing the brakes !!! Then I realized I had the same thing happening to me on my previous 325 after changing to same RedLine 75W-90. RedLine is thicker than OEM Castrol SAF-XO which I think partially explains the results.

So personally I don't understand the hype around RedLine 75W-90 when used in our differentials but ... if you are happy with it ... good for you. As for myself, I'm certainly done with it.

After 1000 miles I could bear it no more so I drained it, put Mobil 1 instead and all those nasty side effects went away. I am now back to 21mpg combined driving and rolling way smoother and with no unneeded induced "brake" effect. Mobil 1 is thinner than RedLine and its viscosity much closer to the original OEM fluid.

Although I managed to get 2 bottles of Castrol Syntrax 75W-90 (of whose "Long Life" variant is **THE** official replacement of SAF-XO but alas, not sold in the US), I am seriously considering using Motul Gear 300 75W-90 as it has much better overall properties. In comparison to RedLine, it has a better Viscosity Index (222 versus 155 RedLine) and it is much thiner at both 40 and 100 Celsius (15.2 and 72.6 mm2/s). So it should yield very good mpg even during cold winter days .

Peace.

Originally Posted by bmw4te

Well, I am glad that RedLine 75W-90 works well for those of you who are using it. As it was far from satisfying in my case.

After changing to RedLine Gear Oil 75W-90, my mpg initially dropped from ~21 to 18.6. After 1000 miles and some long highway drives it slowly crept back to 19.8, which was RedLine's "personal best" on my car.

But the most annoying thing was that it slowed my car down ! Before the change I've always picked up speed when going downhill, even on slight down slopes. Well, not anymore after the change . And before it was only needed to push the gas pedal every now and then when going straight on a flat road in order to maintain a constant speed. After the change, I had to push the pedal all the time as I could feel the car "braking" the moment I lifted my foot from the gas. It was like somebody was continuously pressing the brakes !!! Then I realized I had the same thing happening to me on my previous 325 after changing to same RedLine 75W-90. RedLine is thicker than OEM Castrol SAF-XO which I think partially explains the results.

So personally I don't understand the hype around RedLine 75W-90 when used in our differentials but ... if you are happy with it ... good for you. As for myself, I'm certainly done with it.

After 1000 miles I could bear it no more so I drained it, put Mobil 1 instead and all those nasty side effects went away. I am now back to 21mpg combined driving and rolling way smoother and with no unneeded induced "brake" effect. Mobil 1 is thinner than RedLine and its viscosity much closer to the original OEM fluid.

Although I managed to get 2 bottles of Castrol Syntrax 75W-90 (of whose "Long Life" variant is **THE** official replacement of SAF-XO but alas, not sold in the US), I am seriously considering using Motul Gear 300 75W-90 as it has much better overall properties. In comparison to RedLine, it has a better Viscosity Index (222 versus 155 RedLine) and it is much thiner at both 40 and 100 Celsius (15.2 and 72.6 mm2/s). So it should yield very good mpg even during cold winter days .

Peace.

HMMMM,,, Interesting Big fan of Mobil 1 motor oils and Redline oils Castrol also

willl keep in mind when i change mine out Great thread

the ZF transmission repair site sells their own atf oil. Thinking this could be a easy choice ??

http://www.bavauto.com/shop.asp

Hi jp5touring ,

Originally Posted by jp5touring

the ZF transmission repair site sells their own atf oil. Thinking this could be a easy choice ??

http://www.bavauto.com/shop.asp

Do not put ATF in your e39 differential. See post #51 in this thread.

Maybe your post was meant for a different thread ?

Originally Posted by bmw4te

Well, I am glad that RedLine 75W-90 works well for those of you who are using it. As it was far from satisfying in my case.

After changing to RedLine Gear Oil 75W-90, my mpg initially dropped from ~21 to 18.6. After 1000 miles and some long highway drives it slowly crept back to 19.8, which was RedLine's "personal best" on my car.

But the most annoying thing was that it slowed my car down ! Before the change I've always picked up speed when going downhill, even on slight down slopes. Well, not anymore after the change . And before it was only needed to push the gas pedal every now and then when going straight on a flat road in order to maintain a constant speed. After the change, I had to push the pedal all the time as I could feel the car "braking" the moment I lifted my foot from the gas. It was like somebody was continuously pressing the brakes !!! Then I realized I had the same thing happening to me on my previous 325 after changing to same RedLine 75W-90. RedLine is thicker than OEM Castrol SAF-XO which I think partially explains the results.

So personally I don't understand the hype around RedLine 75W-90 when used in our differentials but ... if you are happy with it ... good for you. As for myself, I'm certainly done with it.

After 1000 miles I could bear it no more so I drained it, put Mobil 1 instead and all those nasty side effects went away. I am now back to 21mpg combined driving and rolling way smoother and with no unneeded induced "brake" effect. Mobil 1 is thinner than RedLine and its viscosity much closer to the original OEM fluid.

Although I managed to get 2 bottles of Castrol Syntrax 75W-90 (of whose "Long Life" variant is **THE** official replacement of SAF-XO but alas, not sold in the US), I am seriously considering using Motul Gear 300 75W-90 as it has much better overall properties. In comparison to RedLine, it has a better Viscosity Index (222 versus 155 RedLine) and it is much thiner at both 40 and 100 Celsius (15.2 and 72.6 mm2/s). So it should yield very good mpg even during cold winter days .

Peace.

Very interesting. Another guy on BF.com said that Redline made his noisy diff quiet. Now we know why. Redline is thick.

Does this mean the 75w90 classification is total nonsense?

Originally Posted by Graham E39 528i

Does this mean the 75w90 classification is total nonsense?

Based on what I've read SAE viscosity ratings for gear oils do not have the same relevance/significance as with motor oil.

In my opinion the thickness of the gear oil is only half of the story (but at least it is documented). The other half is the friction additives added which follow a proprietary formula. I believe the only way you can tell whether those additives will work with your differential (when not using OEM oil), is to test the product.

Below are some viscosity numbers that are publicly available:

Castrol SAF-XO (OEM Factory Fill)
=====================
Viscosity 40C: 100 cSt
Viscosity 100C: 15.2 cSt
Viscosity Index: 160

Castrol Syntrax 75W90
===============
Viscosity 40C: 117 cSt
Viscosity 100C: 15 cSt
Viscosity Index: 139

RedLine Gear Oil 75W90
===============
Viscosity 40C: 115 cSt
Viscosity 100C: 16.4 cSt
Viscosity Index: 155

Castrol Syntrax Long Life 75W90 (OEM replacement)
================================
Viscosity 40C: 103 cSt
Viscosity 100C: 15.7 cSt
Viscosity Index: 162

Mobil 1 Synthetic Gear Lubricant LS 75W-90
===========================
Viscosity 40C: 99 cSt
Viscosity 100C: 15.2 cSt
Viscosity Index: 142

AMSOIL Severe Gear Lubricant 75W-90
=========================
Viscosity 40C: 109 cSt
Viscosity 100C: 16.8 cSt
Viscosity Index: 167

Motul Gear 300 75W-90
===============
Viscosity 40C: 72.6 cSt
Viscosity 100C: 15.2 cSt
Viscosity Index: 222

Hope this helps.

Data!!! Wonderful.

This helps a lot, sir! Thank you.

Originally Posted by bmw4te

Hi jp5touring ,



Do not put ATF in your e39 differential. See post #51 in this thread.

Maybe your post was meant for a different thread ?

Duh Hey it was late and OK maybe alcohol was involved ,,,

Got side tracked was thinking transmission fluid replacement not the diff..

Originally Posted by Hooray!

Back to the OP, I just put RedLine 75W90 gear oil in, highly recommended by all the research I did... sold by Bavarian Auto among others. Regarding ATF, for a ZF 5HP19 again after alot of research and talking with a few ZF "real" repair facilities (ie torn down hudreds of ZFs), Valvoline MaxLife ($4@qt!) turns out to be the #2 to ESSO/LifeTime and only because ESSO is brown, which is different and MaxLife is red, looks like all ATF. Theory goes from the ZF guys, that down the road a mechanic that finds brown ATF might ask a question or two vs. one that sees red and puts in regular Dextron ATF (not good for a ZF). They went on to say that the MaxLife formula with friction additives and seal conditioners built for over 75,000 mile tranny's seems to work well. For me, hearing that and the fact that at $4@qt (vs. $20@at) I can change the ATF every 30k without blinking.

Wow, really? Good to hear. I currently have the Valvoline ATF but was wanting to try the fully synthetic Pentosin ATF (OEM). It was reverse recommended for older European trannys (including our E39 ZF) as being a good replacement and fully compatible instead of the semi synthetic Esso.