Welcome to Bimmerfest -- The #1 Online Community for BMW related information! Please enjoy the discussion forums below and share your experiences with the 200,000 current, new and past BMW owners. The forums are broken out by car model and into other special interest sections such as BMW European Delivery and a special forum to voice your questions to the many BMW dealers on the site to assist our members!

Please follow the links below to help get you started!

Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 5 Series > E39 (1997 - 2003)

E39 (1997 - 2003)
The BMW 5-Series (E39 chassis) was introduced in the United States as a 1997 model year car and lasted until the 2004 when the E60 chassis was released. The United States saw several variations including the 525i, 528i, 530i and 540i. -- View the E39 Wiki

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #26  
Old 06-09-2010, 12:24 PM
stigst3r's Avatar
stigst3r stigst3r is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: NYC
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 745
Mein Auto: e39
I'm sure he is doing his job and im sure the products might be great, but the according to what u posted bmw simply does not want u to use them. im sure there is many things bmw would not recommend and people still do it and it works out great for them. Im just curious if that water wetter actually works
__________________

RIP: 1998 540i sport 6spd | daily: 1999 528 m-sport 5spd
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 06-10-2010, 04:53 AM
ECSTuning's Avatar
ECSTuning ECSTuning is offline
Instructor of the Stig™
Location: Wadsworth, Ohio
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 3,970
Mein Auto: Hover Car on Wheels
From a personal perspective I have been running Water Water in my 98 E36 M3 since I did the Fan Delete several years ago.

I have never had an issue of overheating with the car. From track days to heavy traffic there has never been any signs of cooling system fatigue.

Just .02 no sales pitch.

Thanks,
Joe
__________________

Have questions? Need answers? Live Chat us! 8:30am to 12:00am Midnight EST
sales@ecstuning.com | customerservice@ecstuning.com
Customer Service Hours: M - F 8:00am - 8:00pm EST | Saturday: 10:00am - 7:00pm EST
Sales Team Hours: M - F 8:00am - 11:00pm EST | Saturday: 10:00am - 7:00pm EST
800.924.5172 | OEM BMW Part Number Search
Do you love surveys? Click HERE to take our Customer Satisfaction Survey!

Last edited by ECSTuning; 06-10-2010 at 04:54 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 06-10-2010, 06:16 AM
Josh P.'s Avatar
Josh P. Josh P. is offline
Bimmerholic
Location: Philly
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,683
Mein Auto: 2001 530 SP/PP/CWP/Slush
Though I do take some of BMW's recs with a big grain of salt, this one I would follow. Plus how would you even know if any of these sealants or whatever really worked? Because your failing head gaskets were suddenly cured by your coolant? Seems like a stretch.
__________________

2001 530 Steel Blue Metallic, purchased Dec 03
SP/PP/CWP/Slushbox (I know I know)

OEM M5 bumper, 40% Huper Optik ceramic tint, Dice Silverline Pro iPod adapter, 540SP radial spokes, Zimmerman Z-Coat rotors w/ Hawk HPS pads
"Mods": driveshaft, cooling system, Vanos, CCV, PSR, VCG, FSU, spark plugs, buncha belts-n-hoses, & other things I'd just as soon forget

BMW CCA member for 12 years
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 06-10-2010, 02:00 PM
chiefwej's Avatar
chiefwej chiefwej is offline
Freude am Fahren
Location: Tucson, AZ
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,298
Mein Auto: 2003 540i/6 //m-tech
Up until 5/28 I always used BMW coolant mixed 50/50 with distilled water. Now its 100% Evans NPG+, and so far I'm very pleased with the change.

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=458877
__________________
chiefwej 2003 540i ///m-tech 6-speed
Black Sapphire Metallic w/gray
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 06-10-2010, 03:46 PM
Calicoastin Calicoastin is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: East Bay/Peninsula, California
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 178
Mein Auto: 2003 E39 540i auto
I used Peak pre diluted phosphate/silicate free green coolant when I replaced the lower radiator hose. I've seen it being used at several BMW dealer service bays so I thought it would work for me too. Been almost a year and zero problems with it. Kragen had a deal at the time, $10 for 2 of the prediluted gallons. I'd stay away from the additives. I read posts about it degrading the rubber hoses. Before I installed the Peak coolant I used Purple Ice about a week before my reservoir tank cracked and a few months later the hose took a dump.

Last edited by Calicoastin; 06-10-2010 at 03:50 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 06-12-2010, 05:55 AM
agouraM5 agouraM5 is offline
AgouraM5
Location: Liberty Hill, TX
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 86
Mein Auto: '03 540iA
Cool throwing codes now...?

... that cost of the Peak is attractive if it has worked well for your cooling system for a long period.

New issue: How do I get rid of the "check coolant level" code?? It comes on everytime I start the engine now, and I have checked my level and made sure the floater is at the "kalt" level every morning so I don't want to overfill the expansion, and the coolant level is where it says it should be?? What stops the sensor from throwing the code to the ping machine? tia

ymmv
__________________
AgouraM5
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 06-12-2010, 07:09 AM
bluebee's Avatar
bluebee bluebee is offline
Seek to understand,^Value
Location: San Jose, California
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 21,229
Mein Auto: 02 BMW 525i M54 auto 130K
I wonder if our bimmers really need "phosphate-free" antifreeze.

Look at this blurb from Prestone's FAQ ...

What is confusing to me is they say the "water" in Europe has a high mineral content - but if we're all using distilled water, why would it have ANY mineral content?

Makes no sense ... can you help make sense of this???

Q. Does Prestone® Antifreeze/Coolant contain phosphates?
A. Some European automobile manufacturers request that a phosphate-free antifreeze be used in their vehicles. This issue is related to the extremely high mineral content of the water in Europe. If you were to mix an antifreeze that contained phosphates with the type of water they have in Europe, it may produce deposits that can settle in the cooling system and promote corrosion. However, in North America we do not have this type of water problem. Typical North American coolants have contained phosphates (which is part of the corrosion inhibitor package) for many years. Therefore, the question of phosphates is a non-issue here in North America. Prestone® Antifreeze/Coolant is completely safe for use in both foreign and domestic vehicles. For those consumers who would feel more comfortable using a phosphate-free antifreeze, our Prestone® Extended Life 5/150 Antifreeze/Coolant is phosphate, silicate, and borate free. This coolant uses a special chemistry and technology that extends the life of the corrosion inhibitor package so that it lasts for five years or 150,000 miles (whichever comes first), and is safe for all cars and light trucks (old or new). Prestone® Extended Life 5/150 Antifreeze/Coolant has been approved by General Motors under their DEX-COOL® specifications and is compatible with other DEX-COOL® approved coolants.


Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	prestone_phospate_free_antifreeze.gif
Views:	2859
Size:	10.9 KB
ID:	234041  

Last edited by bluebee; 06-12-2010 at 07:12 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 06-12-2010, 07:20 AM
bluebee's Avatar
bluebee bluebee is offline
Seek to understand,^Value
Location: San Jose, California
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 21,229
Mein Auto: 02 BMW 525i M54 auto 130K
I'm also confused about "silicates".

The Bentleys say phosphate, nitrate, and amine free (for extended life in the USA apparently).

  1. There are several manufacturers that supply extended life antifreeze. These new antifreeze products need to be nitrate and amine free to meet U.S. requirements, phosphate free to meet European requirements and silicate free to meet Japanese requirements. Extended life antifreezes have been colored red and orange depending on the supplier.

What's the purpose of silicate free?

Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	silicates.gif
Views:	2594
Size:	17.3 KB
ID:	234042  
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 06-12-2010, 07:35 AM
bluebee's Avatar
bluebee bluebee is offline
Seek to understand,^Value
Location: San Jose, California
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 21,229
Mein Auto: 02 BMW 525i M54 auto 130K
The Bentleys say on page 170-7 to use "low silicate" antifreeze (not silicate-free antifreeze).

So, I'll update the coolant recommendations to the following (but I'm still confused so please clarify where needed):

- Engine coolant: phosphate free (for Europe's high-mineral-content water), amine & nitrite/nitrate free (for USA long-life requirements), & low-silicate or silicate free (for Japan requirements) 50:50 mixture of ethylene glycol & water (the Bentleys say distilled water (Bentley 020-11), aka de-mineralized or de-ionized water, some call it purified water, and the BMW AG TIS 12.11.2007 18:56 specifies water with a pH from 6.5 to 8.0, maximum total hardness of 3.6 mmol Ca++/liter, maximum chloride content 100 mg/liter, and maximum sulphate content 100mg/liter; interestingly the BMW TIS says "potable tap water usually fulfills these requirements". Despite this, most people say never use tap water due to the ion content. BMW lists a score of coolants in their BMW AG TIS 12.11.2007 18:55 which meet the BMW N 600 69.0 standard, some of which are BMW PN:81.22.9.407.454 1.5-liter; BMW PN:88.88.6.900.316 1 gallon; Castrol Anti-Freeze NF; BASF Glysantin Protect Plus G48, & Havoline AFC (BD04). Others recommend Service Pro Universal Formula; Valvoline Zerex G-05, & Prestone Extended Life 5/150. [Total Volume: 1997 I6=10.5 quarts (2.6 gallons), 1997 V8=12.0 quarts (3.0 gallons), 1998-2002 I6=11.1 quarts (2.8 gallons), 1998-2002 V8=12.7 quarts (3.2 gallons), 1997-2002 V8 with latent heater=13.5 quarts (3.4 gallons)]. Prestone says the only reason for phosphate free is the extremely high mineral content of water in Europe - and that in the USA, it's not needed. Replacement Interval: Every three years (Bentley page 020-9) or every four years (aforementioned BMW AG TIS) starting from date of manufacture (except for M-Power vehicles which have 3-year intervals). Note: Mixing BMW-recommended coolant brands is permissible; but mixing types is not permissible unless it's an emergency.

Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	silicate_bentley.gif
Views:	2702
Size:	156.4 KB
ID:	234044  
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 06-13-2010, 03:58 AM
gtxragtop's Avatar
gtxragtop gtxragtop is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Mass
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 877
Mein Auto: 2003 530IA
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluebee View Post
What is very interesting is that the BMW AG TIS says potable tap water is fine!

Or maybe I mis-interpreted it?

See this below ... near the bottom where it says not to use desalinated water but potable water is just fine.

What it has stated is that potable water if used must meet certain specifications. Since most of us are not going to have our water tested to determine this, it is easier to simply purchase distilled water and mix 50/50.
__________________
Ever wonder why 5 series electrical issues are common and complicated.. Spend time here and you will understand why. http://www.bmw-planet.com/diagrams/r...9new/index.htm
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 06-13-2010, 08:51 AM
frhsfootball80 frhsfootball80 is offline
looking for a car
Location: keller, tx
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,575
Mein Auto: e39 m5 & 92 civic
i put in whatever autozone is selling, combined with whatever my sink is putting out.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 06-13-2010, 09:12 AM
bluebee's Avatar
bluebee bluebee is offline
Seek to understand,^Value
Location: San Jose, California
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 21,229
Mein Auto: 02 BMW 525i M54 auto 130K
Quote:
Originally Posted by gtxragtop View Post
What it has stated is that potable water if used must meet certain specifications. Since most of us are not going to have our water tested to determine this, it is easier to simply purchase distilled water and mix 50/50.
If we assume potable water is fine, then WHICH fluid in the E39 MUST have distilled water?

Is it just the battery? What about the windshield washers?
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 11-24-2010, 06:23 AM
BadBrad BadBrad is offline
BadBrad
Location: Massachusetts
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 228
Mein Auto: 2003 540iA M-Sport
I used the Prestone Extended Life after my recent cooling system overhaul. $15.99/gallon @ Autozone and there's a $7 rebate. That's $17.98 total for two gallons.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 12-13-2010, 07:08 PM
bluebee's Avatar
bluebee bluebee is offline
Seek to understand,^Value
Location: San Jose, California
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 21,229
Mein Auto: 02 BMW 525i M54 auto 130K
Over in this thread, 540 M-Sport brings up a good point that my summary above says "others recommend" - but I didn't say who those others are.

For the record, here are the "others" in this thread:
- BMW coolant (nitrite free, phosphate free): (540m-sport) (gsxryder) (bigco540i) (stigst3r) (ecstuningjoe)
- Prestone Extended Life: (cn90) (phathom) (bradbrad) (bluebee)
- Valvoline Zerex G-05, phospate free: (repcapale) (agouram5)
- Peake pre diluted phosphate/silicate free green (calicoastin)
- Service Pro Universal Formula: (jimrolando)
- Evans NPG+ (chiefwej)

So, to be more clear, I've updated our combined tribal knowledge recommendations to the following (please correct with a corrected summary if you see an error):

- Engine coolant: phosphate free (for Europe's high-mineral-content water), amine & nitrite/nitrate free (for USA long-life requirements), & low-silicate or silicate free (for Japan requirements) 50:50 mixture of ethylene glycol & water (the Bentleys say distilled water (Bentley 020-11), aka de-mineralized or de-ionized water, some call it purified water, and the BMW AG TIS 12.11.2007 18:56 specifies water with a pH from 6.5 to 8.0, maximum total hardness of 3.6 mmol Ca++/liter, maximum chloride content 100 mg/liter, and maximum sulphate content 100mg/liter; interestingly the BMW TIS says "potable tap water usually fulfills these requirements". Despite this, most Bimmerfest posters say never use tap water due to the ion content. BMW lists a score of coolants in their BMW AG TIS 12.11.2007 18:55 which meet the BMW N 600 69.0 standard, some of which are BMW PN:81.22.9.407.454 1.5-liter; BMW PN:88.88.6.900.316 1 gallon; Castrol Anti-Freeze NF; BASF Glysantin Protect Plus G48, & Havoline AFC (BD04); but most of which are not easily found in the USA. Many Bimmerfesters recommend BMW coolant; however other Bimmerfesters recommend Prestone Extended Life 5/150, Valvoline Zerex G-05, and Service Pro Universal Formula. [Total Volume: 1997 I6=10.5 quarts (2.6 gallons), 1997 V8=12.0 quarts (3.0 gallons), 1998-2002 I6=11.1 quarts (2.8 gallons), 1998-2002 V8=12.7 quarts (3.2 gallons), 1997-2002 V8 with latent heater=13.5 quarts (3.4 gallons)]. Prestone says the only reason for phosphate free is the extremely high mineral content of water in Europe - and that in the USA, it's not needed. Replacement Interval: Every three years (Bentley page 020-9) or every four years (aforementioned BMW AG TIS) starting from date of manufacture (except for M-Power vehicles which have 3-year intervals). Note: Mixing BMW-recommended coolant brands is permissible; but mixing types is not permissible unless it's an emergency.
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old 12-14-2010, 06:47 PM
bluebee's Avatar
bluebee bluebee is offline
Seek to understand,^Value
Location: San Jose, California
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 21,229
Mein Auto: 02 BMW 525i M54 auto 130K
For the record, NYC tap water apparently meets BMW-specified limits for cooling system water.

BMW Requirements:
  1. pH 6.5 to 8.0, range
  2. 20° dH total hardness, max (Deutsche Härte, °dH or dH)
  3. 3.6millimoles of calcium ++ valence ions per liter, max
  4. 100 milligrams/liter chloride ions, max
  5. 100 milligrams/liter sulfates, max
NYC Results:
  1. pH 7.2, (well within the BMW-specified range)
  2. 1.1 grains/gallon hardness by way of calcium carbonate (~1/15th the BMW-specified limit)
  3. 5.5 milligrams of calcium ions per liter (~1/30th the BMW-specified limit)
  4. 11 milligrams/liter chloride ions (~1/10th the BMW-specified limit)
  5. 4.7 milligrams/liter sulfates, (~1/20th of the BMW-specified limit)
Thanks to dvsgene, we see that the BMW requirements for cooling system solutions are quite easily met by NYC potable tap water.
- One degree German is defined as 10 milligrams of calcium oxide per litre of water.
- This is equivalent to 17.848 milligrams of calcium carbonate per litre of water, or 17.848 ppm.
- So 20° dH total hardness, max =20 x 17.848 =356.96ppm vs 1.1grains=18.8298ppm
- NYC's 18.8298ppm is well within BMW specified limit of 356.96ppm
...
- 3.6 mmol/L of Calcium max converts to 144 mg/L
- NYC's 5.5mg/l is well within BMW's max of 144mg/l



Last edited by bluebee; 12-14-2010 at 07:40 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 12-14-2010, 07:31 PM
dvsgene dvsgene is offline
Search, Read, THEN Ask
Location: "Empire State" of Mind
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 2,614
Mein Auto: 98 540i M62 3.15
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluebee View Post
For the record, NYC tap water apparently meets BMW-specified limits for cooling system water (assuming #2 and #3 below pan out appropriately).

BMW Requirements:
  1. pH 6.5 to 8.0, range
  2. 20° dH total hardness, max (this is a German measurement)
  3. 3.6millimoles of calcium ++ valence ions per liter, max
  4. 100 milligrams/liter chloride ions, max
  5. 100 milligrams/liter sulfates, max
NYC Results:
  1. pH 7.2, (well within the BMW-specified range)
  2. 1.1 grains/gallon hardness by way of calcium carbonate (how does that compare to the BMW spec?)
  3. 5.5 milligrams of calcium ions per liter (how many moles is that?)
  4. 11 milligrams/liter chloride ions (1/10th the BMW-specified limit)
  5. 4.7 milligrams/liter sulfates, (1/20th of the BMW-specified limit)
So, the question, for the phD's out there, are in #2 and #3; otherwise the BMW requirements are quite easily met by NYC potable tap water.

Does anyone here offhand know how to convert the NYC figures of numbers #2 and #3 above into the BMW-specified limits?
Donna for #2

Grains per Gallon (gpg)
Defined as 1 grain (64.8 mg) of calcium carbonate per U.S. gallon (3.79 litres), or 17.118 ppm

German degrees (Deutsche Härte, °dH or dH)
One degree German is defined as 10 milligrams of calcium oxide per litre of water. This is equivalent to 17.848 milligrams of calcium carbonate per litre of water, or 17.848 ppm.

So 20° dH total hardness, max =20 x 17.848 =356.96ppm vs 1.1grains=18.8298ppm

NYC's 18.8298ppm is well within BMW's 356.96ppm

for #3
To convert mmol/L of CALCIUM ONLY (each element is different) multiply by 40

3.6 mmol/L of Calcium max converts to 144 mg/L

NYC's 5.5mg/l is well within BMW's max of 144mg/L

Last edited by dvsgene; 12-14-2010 at 07:32 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 12-15-2010, 08:46 PM
bluebee's Avatar
bluebee bluebee is offline
Seek to understand,^Value
Location: San Jose, California
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 21,229
Mein Auto: 02 BMW 525i M54 auto 130K
Thanks for the updated numbers. I modified the post above so that users won't get confused by reading missing information and then the correction.

I'm impressed by your chemical knowledge.

Now I have to get MY water checked!

I think two "free" options are:
a) Leslie's pool supply will check "pool" water for free
b) I think Culligan water filters will also check for free

I need to check if there are other options (even a pay service would be fine) for getting water checked for these things.

Thanks,
BB
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 12-15-2010, 08:55 PM
dvsgene dvsgene is offline
Search, Read, THEN Ask
Location: "Empire State" of Mind
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 2,614
Mein Auto: 98 540i M62 3.15
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluebee View Post
Now I have to get MY water checked!

I think two "free" options are:
a) Leslie's pool supply will check "pool" water for free
b) I think Culligan water filters will also check for free

I need to check if there are other options (even a pay service would be fine) for getting water checked for these things.

Thanks,
BB
There's a 3rd Free Option:

San Jose Water's 2009 Quality Report. BUT again, what happens to your water between the source and your tap can differ.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf SanJose09.pdf (2.02 MB, 76 views)
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 12-15-2010, 10:56 PM
chiefwej's Avatar
chiefwej chiefwej is offline
Freude am Fahren
Location: Tucson, AZ
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,298
Mein Auto: 2003 540i/6 //m-tech
Why all the stress about water testing when distilled is better (100% pure water) and only cost $0.69 a gallon at WalMart?
__________________
chiefwej 2003 540i ///m-tech 6-speed
Black Sapphire Metallic w/gray
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 12-20-2010, 09:51 PM
bluebee's Avatar
bluebee bluebee is offline
Seek to understand,^Value
Location: San Jose, California
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 21,229
Mein Auto: 02 BMW 525i M54 auto 130K
The inevitable "what coolant" thread came up today (yet again), so I pointed the OP to here and realized I needed to update the executive summary.

How's this sound (added NPG and modified the water recommendation & added the 'additive' recommendation from the TIS listed above)...

- Engine coolant: phosphate free (for Europe's high-mineral-content water), amine & nitrite/nitrate free (for USA long-life requirements), & low-silicate or silicate free (for Japan requirements) 50:50 mixture of ethylene glycol & water (the Bentleys say distilled water (Bentley 020-11), aka de-mineralized or de-ionized water, some call it purified water, and the BMW AG TIS 12.11.2007 18:56 specifies water with a pH from 6.5 to 8.0, maximum total hardness of 3.6 mmol Ca++/liter, maximum chloride content 100 mg/liter, and maximum sulphate content 100mg/liter; interestingly the BMW TIS says "potable tap water usually fulfills these requirements". EPA reports show San Jose & NYC tap water easily fulfill these requirements. The BMW TIS expressly states additives are not helpful and are not recommended. BMW lists a score of recommended coolants in their BMW AG TIS 12.11.2007 18:55 which meet the BMW N 600 69.0 standard, some of which are BMW PN:81.22.9.407.454 1.5-liter; BMW PN:88.88.6.900.316 1 gallon; Castrol Anti-Freeze NF; BASF Glysantin Protect Plus G48, & Havoline AFC (BD04); but most of which are not easily found in the USA. Many Bimmerfesters recommend BMW coolant; however other Bimmerfesters recommend Prestone Extended Life 5/150, Valvoline Zerex G-05, and Service Pro Universal Formula. Others recommend Evans NPG+ but be aware this fluid entails a different formulation & philosophy than the fluids listed above and is not compatible with them. [Total Volume: 1997 I6=10.5 quarts (2.6 gallons), 1997 V8=12.0 quarts (3.0 gallons), 1998-2002 I6=11.1 quarts (2.8 gallons), 1998-2002 V8=12.7 quarts (3.2 gallons), 1997-2002 V8 with latent heater=13.5 quarts (3.4 gallons)]. Prestone says the only reason for phosphate free is the extremely high mineral content of water in Europe - and that in the USA, it's not needed. Replacement Interval: Every three years (Bentley page 020-9) or every four years (aforementioned BMW AG TIS) starting from date of manufacture (except for M-Power vehicles which have 3-year intervals). Note: Mixing BMW-recommended coolant brands is permissible; but mixing types is not permissible unless it's an emergency.

Last edited by bluebee; 12-20-2010 at 09:53 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 04-01-2011, 09:04 PM
bluebee's Avatar
bluebee bluebee is offline
Seek to understand,^Value
Location: San Jose, California
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 21,229
Mein Auto: 02 BMW 525i M54 auto 130K
For the record, it looks like we have another pioneer who has today taken the propanol waterless plunge to Evans NPG+ coolant:
- Changed OEM coolant for Evans NPG+, by aioros, ('99 528i)

I'm trying to find the Bimmerfest E39 Evans NPG+ threads to list pros and cons.

Here's what I have, so far for Evans NPG+:
- Changed OEM coolant for Evans NPG+, by aioros ('99 528i)
- I did it! A zero pressure cooling system, by chiefwej (2003 540i/6 //m-tech)
- Evans NPG+ Waterless Coolant --anyone use in a v8?
- Evans Coolant. Anybody use it?

And, here's what we have for the pressure cap:
- Solution to Exploding radiators (30psi/2.0bar pressure cap -> 20psi/1.4bar)

And, for the 'typical' coolant, these are useful:
- The truth about Coolants
- What Coolant you using?
- Best coolent to use for my e39??

And, for all BMW E39 fluids:
- DIY Glovebox & Bentley supplement: 1-page summary of the dozen recommended E39 fluids

Last edited by bluebee; 04-01-2011 at 09:16 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 04-01-2011, 09:09 PM
bluebee's Avatar
bluebee bluebee is offline
Seek to understand,^Value
Location: San Jose, California
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 21,229
Mein Auto: 02 BMW 525i M54 auto 130K
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluebee View Post
For the record, here are the "others" in this thread:
- BMW coolant (nitrite free, phosphate free): (540m-sport) (gsxryder) (bigco540i) (stigst3r) (ecstuningjoe)
- Prestone Extended Life: (cn90) (phathom) (bradbrad) (bluebee)
- Valvoline Zerex G-05, phospate free: (repcapale) (agouram5)
- Peake pre diluted phosphate/silicate free green (calicoastin)
- Service Pro Universal Formula: (jimrolando)
- Evans NPG+ (chiefwej)
Looks like it's time to add another propanol pioneer to the recommendations, so I updated them just now based on this thread today:
- Changed OEM coolant for Evans NPG+, by aioros, ('99 528i)

I will try to find the Bimmerfest E39 Evans NPG+ threads to list pros and cons.

Here's what I have, so far for Evans NPG+:
- Changed OEM coolant for Evans NPG+, by aioros ('99 528i)
- I did it! A zero pressure cooling system, by chiefwej (2003 540i/6 //m-tech)
- Evans NPG+ Waterless Coolant --anyone use in a v8?
- Evans Coolant. Anybody use it?

And, here's what we have for the pressure cap:
- Solution to Exploding radiators (30psi/2.0bar pressure cap -> 20psi/1.4bar)

And, for the 'typical' coolant, these are useful:
- The truth about Coolants
- What Coolant you using?
- Best coolent to use for my e39??

Here, for the record, is the latest summary (it still needs improvement) from:
- DIY Glovebox & Bentley supplement: 1-page summary of the dozen recommended E39 fluids

Quote:
E39 Engine coolant: phosphate free (for Europe's high-mineral-content water), amine & nitrite/nitrate free (for USA long-life requirements), & low-silicate or silicate free (for Japan requirements) 50:50 mixture of ethylene glycol & water (the Bentleys say distilled water (Bentley 020-11), aka de-mineralized or de-ionized water, some call it purified water, and the BMW AG TIS 12.11.2007 18:56 specifies water with a pH from 6.5 to 8.0, maximum total hardness of 3.6 mmol Ca++/liter, maximum chloride content 100 mg/liter, and maximum sulphate content 100mg/liter; interestingly the BMW TIS says "potable tap water usually fulfills these requirements". EPA reports show San Jose & NYC tap water easily fulfill these requirements. The BMW TIS expressly states additives are not helpful and are not recommended. BMW lists a score of recommended coolants in their BMW AG TIS 12.11.2007 18:55 which meet the BMW N 600 69.0 standard, some of which are BMW PN:81.22.9.407.454 1.5-liter; BMW PN:88.88.6.900.316 1 gallon; Castrol Anti-Freeze NF; BASF Glysantin Protect Plus G48, & Havoline AFC (BD04); but most of which are not easily found in the USA. Many Bimmerfesters recommend BMW coolant; however other Bimmerfesters recommend Prestone Extended Life 5/150, Valvoline Zerex G-05, and Service Pro Universal Formula. Others (e.g., chiefwej, aioros), have tested Evans NPG+ but be aware propanol entails a different maintenance philosophy than the aqueous fluids listed above and is not compatible with them. [Total Volume: 1997 I6=10.5 quarts (2.6 gallons), 1997 V8=12.0 quarts (3.0 gallons), 1998-2002 I6=11.1 quarts (2.8 gallons), 1998-2002 V8=12.7 quarts (3.2 gallons), 1997-2002 V8 with latent heater=13.5 quarts (3.4 gallons)]. Prestone says the only reason for phosphate free is the extremely high mineral content of water in Europe - and that in the USA, it's not needed. Replacement Interval: Every three years (Bentley page 020-9) or every four years (aforementioned BMW AG TIS) starting from date of manufacture (except for M-Power vehicles which have 3-year intervals). Note: Mixing BMW-recommended coolant brands is permissible; but mixing types is not permissible unless it's an emergency.

Last edited by bluebee; 04-01-2011 at 09:18 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 04-05-2011, 10:56 AM
bluebee's Avatar
bluebee bluebee is offline
Seek to understand,^Value
Location: San Jose, California
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 21,229
Mein Auto: 02 BMW 525i M54 auto 130K
For the crosslink record, the coolant toxicity question was asked today:
- E39 (1997 - 2003) > NPG+ temperature

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason5driver View Post
Is the NPG just as toxic as typical coolant?
To which, the MSDS offers a glimpse at the answer:
- E39 (1997 - 2003) > Changed OEM coolant for Evans NPG+

Quote:
Originally Posted by bluebee View Post
Here is another MSDS (3/24/2009) for Evans NPG+ from this location:
- PerformanceParts.LongBrothers.Com Evans NPG+ MSDS (pdf)
  • Evans NPG+ (non aqueous propylene glycol blended coolant)
    • Ethylene Glycol (66% to 70%)
    • Propylene Glycol (no percentage listed)
      • Must be roughly 28% to 32% based on these numbers
    • Water (less than 0.10%, i.e., 'essentially' water free)
    • Corrosion inhibitor package (less than 2%)
Relevant properties apparently are:
  • Boiling Point is 375°F @ 0 psi
  • Freezing Point at -40°F
  • Viscosity - 2.3cp @ 212°F
  • Surface Tension - 44dyn/cm
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 09-13-2011, 12:18 AM
bluebee's Avatar
bluebee bluebee is offline
Seek to understand,^Value
Location: San Jose, California
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 21,229
Mein Auto: 02 BMW 525i M54 auto 130K
For the cross-linked record, the 'what coolant' came up again today and this thread, is, apparently hard to find, based on this post today:
- E39 (1997 - 2003) > Coolant Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by bkgreene39 View Post
I was looking through the e39 faq did not find what i was looking for, so therefore im posting this question. Im sure this question has been asked a billion times before, besides the oem bmw coolant what coolant brand do you use, i have a 1998 bmw 528i production date 1/1998. Very good read about when to change your coolant i found in the faq, it links you to pelicanparts site. Props to the poster.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Forum Navigation
Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 5 Series > E39 (1997 - 2003)
Today's Posts Search
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On



Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 06:22 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
© 2001-2011 performanceIX, Inc. All Rights Reserved .: guidelines .:. privacy .:. terms