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Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 5 Series > E39 (1997 - 2003)

E39 (1997 - 2003)
The BMW 5-Series (E39 chassis) was introduced in the United States as a 1997 model year car and lasted until the 2004 when the E60 chassis was released. The United States saw several variations including the 525i, 528i, 530i and 540i. -- View the E39 Wiki

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  #76  
Old 10-03-2010, 09:23 PM
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They are not these:





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  #77  
Old 10-04-2010, 01:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason5driver View Post
it is hard to really consider the reviews on Tire Rack as truth.
I gave up long ago on reading Tire Rack reviews. It sounded like some of the non-technical boards here ... where egotistical fiction prevailed over cold hard science.

Me? Unless the tire brand-model-size combination consensus is so obviously overwhelmingly positive (and it rarely is), I stick with the cold hard "science" of the government-mandated three ratings, namely:
- Traction (e.g., AA)
- Temperature aka Speed (e.g., A)
- Treadwear (e.g., 400)

I select all the A's, sort by price, and doublecheck the mileage. It's that easy to choose a tire (for me). Easy. And, funny enough, I'm always happy with the results (although my tires never feel squirmy on tar snakes so you guys apparently "feel" seat-of-the-pants criteria a lot more than I do).

I wish it were the same with friction materials, I really do. I love cold hard science.

I'd love, for example, say, a similar three friction ratings, although I'm not sure what they would be. I tried to put those 'ratings' unscientifically in the canonical thread for newbies for most-recommended brands ...
- Stopping friction (High) measured on initial high-speed & low-speed stops
- Fade resistance (Medium) measured on repeated high-speed stops
- Dusting (Low) measured after 10,000 miles by ? (weight)
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  #78  
Old 10-04-2010, 01:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jared@EACTuning View Post
A lot of manufacturers state their pads don't need bedding
Hi Jared,
The "science" of bedding, as I understand it (which may be the problem), actually "requires" bedding at the friction temperature of the pads so that a layer or three of pad material will evenly deposit itself for adherent friction onto the rotors.

If a manufacturer says the pads don't need bedding, how do they propose that layer of friction material is deposited?

Presumably the answer is "normal driving" but the heat of normal driving is not the same as 10 sequential 60-to-10mph stops ... so ... um ... do they "explain" how 'normal driving' achieves the necessary heat?

BB
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  #79  
Old 10-04-2010, 01:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glitch860 View Post
Late to the thread but I am curious what Part # you are all running for your Akebonos? Looking at ECS tuning site and there are dozens of different options all for the 540i
I asked the same question over here ...

Curiously, I never did get an answer as to how to select the right Akebono Euro Ceramic pads for your E39.

- Akebono EUR763 EURO Ultra-Premium Ceramic (bmw)
- Akebono EUR681 EURO Ultra-Premium Ceramic
- Akebono EUR781 EURO Ultra-Premium Ceramic
- Akebono Euro Ultra Premium Ceramic Brake
- Akebono EUR760 EURO Ultra-Premium Ceramic
- Akebono EUR919 EURO Ultra-Premium Ceramic
- Akebono EUR912 EURO Ultra-Premium Ceramic
- Akebono EUR1060 EURO Ultra-Premium Ceramic
- Akebono EUR847 EURO Ultra-Premium Ceramic
- Akebono EUR396 EURO Ultra-Premium Ceramic
- Akebono EUR819 EURO Ultra-Premium Ceramic
- Akebono EUR939 EURO Ultra-Premium Ceramic
- Akebono EUR986 EURO Ultra-Premium Ceramic
- Akebono EUR946 EURO Ultra-Premium Ceramic
- etc.
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  #80  
Old 10-04-2010, 02:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MatWiz View Post
They are not these
Mat (or is it Matt?),
You're better'n I am 'cuz, I could only find Axxis Deluxe Advanced pads for the rears ...
- Why so hard to find FRONT Axxis Deluxe Advanced brake pads (1)

In the end, all I could get were PBR Deluxe Advanced pads for my fronts.

However, AFAIK, Axxis Deluxe Advanced are exactly the same as PBR Deluxe Advanced (nobody has proved otherwise in this thread).


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  #81  
Old 10-04-2010, 05:38 AM
Jared@EAC Jared@EAC is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason5driver View Post
Yep, I liked it.
The 3 series guys seem to consecutively like the Akebono's.
That is why I thought the Tire Rack reviews were weird.
Larger sedans seem to have more negative response from what I read...
Not that it means anything...
LOL!

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...ad.php?t=49882

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...ad.php?t=64251

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...light=ultimate
Those threads are worthless. They're all of the same guy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bluebee View Post
Hi Jared,
The "science" of bedding, as I understand it (which may be the problem), actually "requires" bedding at the friction temperature of the pads so that a layer or three of pad material will evenly deposit itself for adherent friction onto the rotors.

If a manufacturer says the pads don't need bedding, how do they propose that layer of friction material is deposited?

Presumably the answer is "normal driving" but the heat of normal driving is not the same as 10 sequential 60-to-10mph stops ... so ... um ... do they "explain" how 'normal driving' achieves the necessary heat?

BB
Personally, I bed my brakes, even those that don't suggest you do.

If you like science, here's a question. Who is to say that bedding is good for all pad materials, or that it is necessary?

We all know that rotors wear, how do they expect the layer to stay on the pad? You don't bed your brakes every month do you? If that's the purpose of bedding then normal driving must also keep a layer on the rotor (if that layer even exists or is needed).

I don't see bedding as a way to transfer a layer of pad material. To me, bedding is the process by which we "mate" the pads to the rotors. When new, this establishes a good start for normalized wear and burns off all manufacturing residues and edges. Bedding after they are new is a good way to burn of pad deposits that cause vibrations and such. That's why I bed.
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  #82  
Old 10-04-2010, 09:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jared@EACTuning View Post
how do they expect the layer to stay on the pad?
You got me there. I have no idea. ???
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  #83  
Old 10-04-2010, 10:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MatWiz View Post


They are not these:





mw
The box might look different, just like the Utlimates boxes changing, but, I really think the Axxis Deluxe pads I linked are the SAME.

Call and talk to Mike at Import Replacement Parts.
Toll Free 1-888-378-7278
He is a great guy!
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Last edited by Jason5driver; 10-04-2010 at 10:23 AM.
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  #84  
Old 10-04-2010, 10:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluebee View Post
Mat (or is it Matt?),
You're better'n I am 'cuz, I could only find Axxis Deluxe Advanced pads for the rears ...
- Why so hard to find FRONT Axxis Deluxe Advanced brake pads (1)

In the end, all I could get were PBR Deluxe Advanced pads for my fronts.

However, AFAIK, Axxis Deluxe Advanced are exactly the same as PBR Deluxe Advanced (nobody has proved otherwise in this thread).
You can call me either Mat or Matt. It doesn't really matter since my name is Dan.

MatWiz is not short for Mathew.

My box says "organic". Your two boxes say "ceramic". Whatever it means. My guess is that they didn't use pesticides when they grew my pads.

Of course some manufacturers will say that their brakes don't "need" bedding. A good bedding will cut right into their profit...

Jared, what you are doing is not "bedding", what you are doing is "pad matching".

mw
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  #85  
Old 10-04-2010, 10:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MatWiz View Post
You can call me either Mat or Matt. It doesn't really matter since my name is Dan.

MatWiz is not short for Mathew.

My box says "organic". Your two boxes say "ceramic". Whatever it means. My guess is that they didn't use pesticides when they grew my pads.

Of course some manufacturers will say that their brakes don't "need" bedding. A good bedding will cut right into their profit...

Jared, what you are doing is not "bedding", what you are doing is "pad matching".

mw
For $40 for the fronts, I would think it would be worth a try...?
I would still talk to Mike though.
He has talked directly to the head guy at FMP Group Australia - Axxis/ PBR, so he would know.
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Last edited by Jason5driver; 10-04-2010 at 10:33 AM.
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  #86  
Old 10-04-2010, 10:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jared@EACTuning View Post
Those threads are worthless. They're all of the same guy.
LOL!
I noticed that too.

However, IMO, I really do not think those threads really junk...
They are just opinions and experiences...
http://www.axxisbrakes.com/deluxe.html


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Last edited by Jason5driver; 10-04-2010 at 06:38 PM.
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  #87  
Old 10-04-2010, 12:26 PM
Jared@EAC Jared@EAC is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason5driver View Post
The box might look different, just like the Utlimates boxes changing, but, I really think the Axxis Deluxe pads I linked are the SAME.

Call and talk to Mike at Import Replacement Parts.
Toll Free 1-888-378-7278
He is a great guy!
They're not the same pad.
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  #88  
Old 10-04-2010, 01:03 PM
Jared@EAC Jared@EAC is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MatWiz View Post

Jared, what you are doing is not "bedding", what you are doing is "pad matching".

mw
Bedding = Pad Matching

Bedding, by definition, is the mating one surface to another. I follow the bedding procedure outlined by several manufacturers.

I do wonder if part of the problem with the Akebonos is the bedding. I just read their stuff again and they state to not bed their brakes, but rather to driving about 500 miles without any aggressive braking. That's not what most of us are used to.
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  #89  
Old 10-04-2010, 05:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MatWiz View Post
You can call me either Mat or Matt. It doesn't really matter since my name is Dan.
Well, who'd a thought that! (Yes, I did see the Mattress Wizard joke, but, I stayed outta' that thread since it had no value to me ... )

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan View Post
My box says "organic". Your two boxes say "ceramic"
I think we're accidentally mixing up boxes.

From what Turner Motorsport says (see gory details in this Axxis/PBR/MetalMasters/Bendix Mintex/Repco thread), these are the same (and they're ceramic):
- Axxis ULT Ceramic
- PBR ULT Ceramic

And, from what I found out in this thread, these are the same (and they're NAO):
- Axxis Deluxe Advanced
- PBR Deluxe Advanced

Interestingly, since M A R K E T I N G is so important with brake pads, they actually use the word "ceramic" on my PBR Deluxe Advanced pads, even though they are Non-Asbestos Organic (NAO) ... and that's because all you have to do is add a smidgen of sand and they get to claim that.

Point is, apparently, the Axxis & PBR ULT Ceramics are the same ceramic pads; and the Axxis & PBR Deluxe Advanced NAO pads are the same organic pads.

The key related question, I would think, would be how well the Akebono Euro Ceramics perform against the Axxis/PBR ULT Ceramics, with respect to cold-weather initial stopping bite.

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  #90  
Old 10-05-2010, 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Jared@EACTuning View Post
They're not the same pad.
Please explain...
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  #91  
Old 10-06-2010, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Jason5driver View Post
Please explain...
?
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  #92  
Old 10-06-2010, 08:59 PM
emPoWaH emPoWaH is offline
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So these Akebono Euros are different from PBR/Axxis Deluxe Plus/Deluxe Advanced pads, right? I have them on two cars, and while they have very little dust, the initial bite isn't as responsive as OEM. These Akebono Euros have more bite than Deluxe Plus/Advanced, right?

Last edited by emPoWaH; 10-06-2010 at 09:00 PM.
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  #93  
Old 10-06-2010, 10:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emPoWaH View Post
So these Akebono Euros are different from PBR/Axxis Deluxe Plus/Deluxe Advanced pads, right? I have them on two cars, and while they have very little dust, the initial bite isn't as responsive as OEM. These Akebono Euros have more bite than Deluxe Plus/Advanced, right?
No.

mw
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  #94  
Old 08-25-2011, 03:18 PM
dvsgene dvsgene is offline
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Resurrecting an old thread. Doru you decided to keep these after you review? (it's in your signature)

https://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sh...2&postcount=28

What changed?
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  #95  
Old 08-25-2011, 03:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dvsgene View Post
Resurrecting an old thread. Doru you decided to keep these after you review? (it's in your signature)
Quote:
Originally Posted by dvsgene View Post


Maybe I should not have bedded these in? After I started this post, by the time I received the Jurids, the brakes started to...brake. Or maybe I started getting used to them? Anyways, as time passed, it seemed they started to work better, and although I was compelled to change them with the Jurids, every time I went in the garage with the strong decision to change them, the clean rims stopped me every time. Now, it's been over a year, went through a winter and 2 summers, and when I did the suspension work not too long ago, I noticed that the rotors and the pads are almost like new. Hmmm. What I mean is, a new set of rotors have some sort of criss-cross "brushing" on them when new, then this texture is gone pretty quick once the rotors are installed, and after another while some sort of concentric grooves start forming on the now shiny rotor surfaces. The "brushed" texture is still visible on my Zimmermans, just started to fade. And no concentric grooves.
So, as I said, maybe I started to get the "hang" of these pads? Or maybe when I bedded them in I glazed them, and it took a while to wear it off? I don't know. During this period of time since I posted I had to do some hard braking, and they worked. With the exception of that funky week when the pads did not hold very well, and the strange episode that literally shocked me.
In all honesty they are OK, but not as good as the Jurid. You still need to press harder the brake pedal. But the clean rims, they just plaster a smile on your face every time you look at your car. And this is every day...
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  #96  
Old 08-25-2011, 04:00 PM
dvsgene dvsgene is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doru View Post

Maybe I should not have bedded these in? After I started this post, by the time I received the Jurids, the brakes started to...brake. Or maybe I started getting used to them? Anyways, as time passed, it seemed they started to work better, and although I was compelled to change them with the Jurids, every time I went in the garage with the strong decision to change them, the clean rims stopped me every time. Now, it's been over a year, went through a winter and 2 summers, and when I did the suspension work not too long ago, I noticed that the rotors and the pads are almost like new. Hmmm. What I mean is, a new set of rotors have some sort of criss-cross "brushing" on them when new, then this texture is gone pretty quick once the rotors are installed, and after another while some sort of concentric grooves start forming on the now shiny rotor surfaces. The "brushed" texture is still visible on my Zimmermans, just started to fade. And no concentric grooves.
So, as I said, maybe I started to get the "hang" of these pads? Or maybe when I bedded them in I glazed them, and it took a while to wear it off? I don't know. During this period of time since I posted I had to do some hard braking, and they worked. With the exception of that funky week when the pads did not hold very well, and the strange episode that literally shocked me.
In all honesty they are OK, but not as good as the Jurid. You still need to press harder the brake pedal. But the clean rims, they just plaster a smile on your face every time you look at your car. And this is every day...
Interesting, I told a friend who was considering the Akebonos for his Mini Cooper because of the serious brake dust he gets from the OEM Textars.

I said "NOOOO" stay away because of your review in cold weather and mainly because he has a kid too.

As you know I've been on/off these forums but just noticed your signature and wondered why after recalling your review back then.

Well he went with Textars. Those silver rims look black all the time.

Wait till I tell him it was a false alarm! But I personally prefer semi-metallic over ceramic since I clean my car once/twice a month anyway.

Last edited by dvsgene; 08-25-2011 at 04:03 PM.
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  #97  
Old 08-25-2011, 06:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dvsgene View Post
Interesting, I told a friend who was considering the Akebonos for his Mini Cooper because of the serious brake dust he gets from the OEM Textars.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dvsgene View Post

I said "NOOOO" stay away because of your review in cold weather and mainly because he has a kid too.

As you know I've been on/off these forums but just noticed your signature and wondered why after recalling your review back then.

Well he went with Textars. Those silver rims look black all the time.

Wait till I tell him it was a false alarm! But I personally prefer semi-metallic over ceramic since I clean my car once/twice a month anyway.


I didn't want to mislead anyone. I am sorry if I did. What I learned is to NOT bed ceramic pads. It took me a while too to realize it.
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  #98  
Old 08-25-2011, 07:17 PM
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The Stop Tech pads I have on the car now are pretty good.
Same OEM bite, and little to no dust.
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  #99  
Old 08-25-2011, 08:48 PM
bmw_lover85 bmw_lover85 is offline
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Your car looks great
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  #100  
Old 08-26-2011, 05:02 AM
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Fudman Fudman is offline
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Interesting. I was fairly concerned when Doru's original post came out about the lack of cold weather braking since I have Akes and it gets pretty cold here in NE. But I had already had one winter on them with no problems. After another winter of no problems, I really don't even think about this issue. When I installed these pads, I bedded them using Zeckhausen's procedure. I could smell the pads! And I have never had any cold weather braking issues.

However, I just don't like the "feel" of the Ake pads. While the lack of dust is great and they have been quiet as a mouse, I find there is less initial bite and the pedal pressure needed to modulate my braking is non-linear compared to the old OEM pads. These characteristics are not bad enough to replace the pads now but when the time comes, I think I will consider alternate brands.

As with many aftermarket products, it's all about the tradeoffs.
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