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F10 / F11 (2011 - Current)
The new chapter in the highly successful story of the BMW 5 Series Sedan (F10) and wagon (F11)

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  #26  
Old 06-19-2010, 09:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pharding View Post
The Sport Package is mislabeled. It has absolutely no sport equipment in it. It is strictly a Sport Aesthetic Package which for BMW is absurd. I look for BMW to bring out a M5 Aesthetic Package which would only include a M5 sticker for $1,000. BMW could introduce a new marketing campaign called BMW Joy for Poseurs.
Kind of correct. For most people in the US, the increased speed limiter is not going to be an asset, as there isn't any place to do go 130 or 150 safely. The staggered tire set up on the car complete transforms the dynamics of the car. If you tried to back into it by buying a set of aftermarket or other factory rims and tires, it would cost you considerably more then 2200. You're also getting the seats which are both form and function. I think this package is actually a very good value (in terms of BMW standards). I hear what you're saying though, there's definitely some lipstick on this package.

ZSP Sport Package 2,200.00
255 Sports leather steering wheel
2K3 19" Light alloy V-spoke wheels style 331
456 Multi-contour seats
760 Shadowline exterior trim
840 Increased top speed limiter
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  #27  
Old 06-19-2010, 10:08 AM
richschneid richschneid is offline
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Originally Posted by pharding View Post
The Sport Package is mislabeled. It has absolutely no sport equipment in it. It is strictly a Sport Aesthetic Package which for BMW is absurd. I look for BMW to bring out a M5 Aesthetic Package which would only include a M5 sticker for $1,000. BMW could introduce a new marketing campaign called BMW Joy for Poseurs.
I hope BMW doesn't put out an "M5 Aesthetic Package". I wish I didn't need xDrive, then I would get the new M5 next year instead of the 550i and I wouldn't want any "fake" ones on the road.

When I had my E39 M5 I was stopped at a red light next to a Ferrari 355. I asked the guy if he wanted to race. He asked me if my car was a real M5. When I told him it was he said no and made a left turn. A true story!
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Last edited by richschneid; 06-20-2010 at 05:17 AM.
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  #28  
Old 06-19-2010, 10:18 AM
richschneid richschneid is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TJPark01 View Post
Kind of correct. For most people in the US, the increased speed limiter is not going to be an asset, as there isn't any place to do go 130 or 150 safely. The staggered tire set up on the car complete transforms the dynamics of the car. If you tried to back into it by buying a set of aftermarket or other factory rims and tires, it would cost you considerably more then 2200. You're also getting the seats which are both form and function. I think this package is actually a very good value (in terms of BMW standards). I hear what you're saying though, there's definitely some lipstick on this package.

ZSP Sport Package 2,200.00
255 Sports leather steering wheel
2K3 19" Light alloy V-spoke wheels style 331
456 Multi-contour seats
760 Shadowline exterior trim
840 Increased top speed limiter
When I got my E39 540i with sport package I drove it out to Yellowstone via route 212 in southeastern Montana. This is a two lane road. I came upon five cars backed up behind a truck. I passed all of them at once when the road was clear for about a mile ahead (in Montana you can see "forever"). When I got past the truck I was at an indicated 130 mph. I was sure glad I had those Z rated tires and another 25mph of safe speed. The sport package just gives you an added measure of safety in many situations. You are less likely to spin out in accident avoidance and the stopping distances are shorter. You also have an added measure of safety when you want to drive it fast in safe situations.
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  #29  
Old 06-19-2010, 03:01 PM
carnuts3 carnuts3 is offline
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I understand all that was posted re the Dyn H Pkg. But, I have a concern about the size and extra weight of the F10 affecting the handling/steering agility vs the E60. Does anyone know if the Integ Act Steering option without the ZDH would improve the F10's steering/handling to make it react at least like an E60 w/ sport pkg under regular day-to-day driving (i.e. some highway and some city driving)? I'm trying to see if the F10 can be made to drive "smaller".
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  #30  
Old 06-19-2010, 04:59 PM
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Originally Posted by XZLR8 View Post
One more question, if I may, TJPark...

Does the car stay in the mode you leave it in when you shut off the car or does it always revert back to "Normal," thus requiring you to select "Sport" or "Sport+" each time? My 7 always reverts back to Normal, so I am anticipating the same. Am I correct?
The answer to your question is no it does not stay in Sport or Sport + mode when you restart the car, it reverts back to normal. If you leave it in comfort mode, it remains in comfort mode when the car is restarted.
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  #31  
Old 06-19-2010, 09:20 PM
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Originally Posted by TJPark01 View Post
The answer to your question is no it does not stay in Sport or Sport + mode when you restart the car, it reverts back to normal. If you leave it in comfort mode, it remains in comfort mode when the car is restarted.
Thanks for checking. That's what I suspected, but I appreciate the confirmation.
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  #32  
Old 06-19-2010, 09:33 PM
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Originally Posted by XZLR8 View Post
Thanks for checking. That's what I suspected, but I appreciate the confirmation.
Intuitively, if the car has been sitting for a while and you start her up in the morning, You wouldn't want to be driving it aggressively or having the computer hold the gears or what ever it's doing in sport mode.
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  #33  
Old 06-21-2010, 09:04 PM
BravoMikeWiskey BravoMikeWiskey is offline
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I test drove the ZDH - equipped ZSP 550i and could not tell the difference between Normal (no ZDH effect) and Sport+ settings. The sales person who was with me, reluctantly admitted that he could not fell any difference either. And we were testing this on a remote stretch of road leading up to a virtually deserted bridge, at 'speed'. I like the 'lipstick' factor of the ZSP package though.

Interestingly, BMWNA charges $500 for the paddles and a cute joystic (2TB - Sport Auto Transmission) while BMW AG only charges 150EUR for it. Considering that every other option and package from BMW AG costs consistently more than US options, I am proud to know that US F10 cars have world's most expensive paddle shifters, even currency-adjusted.

Also, the rest of the world can get the awesome M-Technick suspension for an equivalent of 400EUR or less, but we, in North America, can not order it.

Last edited by BravoMikeWiskey; 06-21-2010 at 09:09 PM.
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  #34  
Old 06-21-2010, 09:30 PM
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Originally Posted by BravoMikeWiskey View Post
I test drove the ZDH - equipped ZSP 550i and could not tell the difference between Normal (no ZDH effect) and Sport+ settings. The sales person who was with me, reluctantly admitted that he could not fell any difference either. And we were testing this on a remote stretch of road leading up to a virtually deserted bridge, at 'speed'. I like the 'lipstick' factor of the ZSP package though.
The real difference is in twisty roads at speed. This is a big car, and today I had the chance to drive it around the Hollywood Reservoir. This is a mountainous one lane in each direction winding road. The speed limit is 15. I was doing 30 in Normal mode, the car was leaning a lot but not is a way that felt unsafe or made the tires squeal. Then I turned around and put it in Sport and the car was totally transformed. I was going 40 without much effort, and no body roll. I think if you are doing a lot of city or highway driving that is straight, the ZDH package may be an unwise use of $2700. For those who wish to toss the car around corners and plan to do so, you may not be able to live without it.
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  #35  
Old 06-22-2010, 12:09 PM
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Active roll stabilization - ARS, is now part of ZDH, not ZSP. In E60 it's part of the ZSP. Yes for sporty handling, ZDH would be recommended.
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  #36  
Old 06-28-2010, 09:12 AM
5er 5er is offline
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we are getting the ZSP + ZDH, but elected to not do the shift paddles .... do you find the shift paddles are really useful options?
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  #37  
Old 06-28-2010, 09:27 AM
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Originally Posted by 5er View Post
we are getting the ZSP + ZDH, but elected to not do the shift paddles .... do you find the shift paddles are really useful options?
The only real world advantage I have found is it allows you to downshift immediately in a panic situation, without having to put the car in steptronic mode. Not sure how this will affect braking distances, as the car has prodigious stopping power as is. Other then that the odds of you shifting it this way is going to be few and far between. However, they do look cool.
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  #38  
Old 06-28-2010, 12:58 PM
weezl weezl is offline
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Nobody has mentioned what the ZDH experience is with a 6M. Those of us that care about performance and love the clutch would like to know what ZDH does and how it does it. I assume there is a toggle for the 6Ms as well? The shifting experience is unlikely to be affected, but those twisties experieneces are where the fun is, so I assume that is the main advantage; being able to push it when you want to.

One problem is that when I have too many options for things, I end up flipping them on and off and eventually choosing one best one and forgetting about it. BUT, if the default is Comfort Mode each time you start up, and many of us would all like sport 90% of the time (as in the E60 ZPP), this is quite disheartening.
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  #39  
Old 06-28-2010, 03:12 PM
richschneid richschneid is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by weezl View Post
Nobody has mentioned what the ZDH experience is with a 6M. Those of us that care about performance and love the clutch would like to know what ZDH does and how it does it. I assume there is a toggle for the 6Ms as well? The shifting experience is unlikely to be affected, but those twisties experieneces are where the fun is, so I assume that is the main advantage; being able to push it when you want to.

One problem is that when I have too many options for things, I end up flipping them on and off and eventually choosing one best one and forgetting about it. BUT, if the default is Comfort Mode each time you start up, and many of us would all like sport 90% of the time (as in the E60 ZPP), this is quite disheartening.
The reason for being in comfort mode as a default is to make sure the EPA gas mileage doesn't force the buyer to pay the gas guzzler tax. I have to push the "sport" button on my 650i every time I start the engine.

As far as shifting in the twisties is concerned the sport 8 speed ZF transmission using paddle shifters can shift directly to the lower gear of choice without having to do so sequentially like my steptronic or the current 7 speed SMG. A dual clutch SMG might be better, we'll find out if BMW will have one on the F10 M5 due out early next year. I bet anything it will be faster than a manual clutch and shifter. Also you won't have to take your hands off the wheel to shift when you are driving hard.

As I'm sure you know the current M5 is available with either a 6-speed manual or 7-speed SMG. The 7 speed SMG is about a half second faster to 60 mph than the 6 speed manual according to the comparison test I have read. I had a 6 speed manual in my E39 M5 and it was very difficult to drive smoothly around town. In addition, going flat out in 1st gear and watching the road and the tachometer simultaneously in order to hit the 1,2 shift exactly at the redline of 7000rpm was almost impossible. I came to the conclusion that a standard transmission in an 8 cylinder BMW is a complete waste. It is not only slower it is also a lot jerkier around town.

The new sport 8 speed is going to shift a lot faster than the current 6 speed steptronic. It was designed from the ground up to do the kind of driving we both like so much. And having to push a button every time you start the engine just saves you about $2000.
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Last edited by richschneid; 06-28-2010 at 04:03 PM.
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  #40  
Old 06-28-2010, 03:19 PM
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TJPark01 TJPark01 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by weezl View Post
Nobody has mentioned what the ZDH experience is with a 6M. Those of us that care about performance and love the clutch would like to know what ZDH does and how it does it. I assume there is a toggle for the 6Ms as well? The shifting experience is unlikely to be affected, but those twisties experieneces are where the fun is, so I assume that is the main advantage; being able to push it when you want to.

One problem is that when I have too many options for things, I end up flipping them on and off and eventually choosing one best one and forgetting about it. BUT, if the default is Comfort Mode each time you start up, and many of us would all like sport 90% of the time (as in the E60 ZPP), this is quite disheartening.
The default is Normal mode. You can switch to Sport in a split second. When you turn the car off the car will start up in Normal. If you leave the car in Comfort and switch the car off. The car will start in comfort mode and stay there. There isn't a huge difference between Normal and Comfort. But there is a big difference between Normal and Sport.
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  #41  
Old 06-28-2010, 03:24 PM
tunafish tunafish is offline
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Originally Posted by carnuts3 View Post
I understand all that was posted re the Dyn H Pkg. But, I have a concern about the size and extra weight of the F10 affecting the handling/steering agility vs the E60. Does anyone know if the Integ Act Steering option without the ZDH would improve the F10's steering/handling to make it react at least like an E60 w/ sport pkg under regular day-to-day driving (i.e. some highway and some city driving)? I'm trying to see if the F10 can be made to drive "smaller".
ZDH is required for IAS, so you can't have the Integ Act Steering without the Dynamic Handling package.
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  #42  
Old 06-28-2010, 07:58 PM
carnuts3 carnuts3 is offline
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ZDH is required for IAS, so you can't have the Integ Act Steering without the Dynamic Handling package.
Thanks..
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  #43  
Old 08-01-2010, 03:31 PM
eagleputt eagleputt is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TJPark01 View Post
The toggle looks the same for the ZDH & 2TB, but it's function is different.

2TB Sport automatic transmission with shift paddles 500.00
(This is ONLY a transmission control, with 3 modes, Normal, Sport & Sport +)

ZDH Dynamic Handling Package 2,700.00
223 Electronic Damping Control N/C
229 Active Roll Stabilization (ARS) N/C
2VA Adaptive Drive N/C
(This controls the chassis and drivetrain and has 4 modes, Comfort, Normal, Sport & Sport+)


If you have both features, 2TB and ZDH, which one does the toggle activate first?
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  #44  
Old 08-01-2010, 05:14 PM
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Originally Posted by eagleputt View Post
If you have both features, 2TB and ZDH, which one does the toggle activate first?
If you have both, then the toggle will activate both transmission and chassis changes simultaneously. You can change it in Idrive if you like.
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  #45  
Old 08-01-2010, 09:17 PM
eagleputt eagleputt is offline
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Thanks. Seems I'll be toggling and dialing quite a bit more to get the same ride I enjoy in my E60 by simply clicking the start button.
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  #46  
Old 08-01-2010, 10:39 PM
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Thanks. Seems I'll be toggling and dialing quite a bit more to get the same ride I enjoy in my E60 by simply clicking the start button.
It's an evolution, not the same car as the E60. People are complaining a lot about the handling, but they don't seem to be complaining about all the things that were wrong with the E60, that they fixed:
Dame Edna, the cup holder not built into the dash, the back seat made for dwarfs, the double hump on the dash, the rock hard ride, the styling.
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  #47  
Old 08-02-2010, 05:01 AM
pharding pharding is offline
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Originally Posted by TJPark01 View Post
If you have both, then the toggle will activate both transmission and chassis changes simultaneously. You can change it in Idrive if you like.
It merely dumbs down the drivetrain or the chasis or both. The level of control is crude at best, although it is better than nothing.
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  #48  
Old 08-03-2010, 06:19 AM
Lerxst101 Lerxst101 is offline
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What surprises me is that my dealer in NJ actually is steering me away from sport/DHP, as I'll be ordering a 535xi. He thinks it's unnecessary, but why?
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  #49  
Old 08-04-2010, 12:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Lerxst101 View Post
What surprises me is that my dealer in NJ actually is steering me away from sport/DHP, as I'll be ordering a 535xi. He thinks it's unnecessary, but why?
Isn't this the first time that the Xdrive 5 series can be ordered with a real sports package (aka ZSP + DHP)? Get it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TJPark01 View Post
It's an evolution, not the same car as the E60. People are complaining a lot about the handling, but they don't seem to be complaining about all the things that were wrong with the E60, that they fixed:
Dame Edna, the cup holder not built into the dash, the back seat made for dwarfs, the double hump on the dash, the rock hard ride, the styling.
"wrong with E60"? that's a matter of opinion regarding styling (interior and exterior). The flow of the dash in E60 seems graceful to me and the material quality looks and feels good, while the F10 dash seems like thick plastic foam (well, it is). While the driver oriented cockpit is a plus, the twist of the wood trim in front of the passenger and the additional chrome pieces just don't look as classy.

E60 exterior design is avant garde, while F10 is a sausage of middle length between the 3 and 7. The ride of E60 is just right to me.

Cup holders are improved, however BMW has the wit to put the power outlet in between the cup holders. Backseat space is improved - with a longer and heavier car that's what you'd expect.
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  #50  
Old 08-04-2010, 05:51 AM
pharding pharding is offline
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The E60 is a great car. It drives great and is quite sporty. The flame surfacing design was widely emulated by every automobile manufacturer out there.
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