Welcome to Bimmerfest -- The #1 Online Community for BMW related information! Please enjoy the discussion forums below and share your experiences with the 200,000 current, new and past BMW owners. The forums are broken out by car model and into other special interest sections such as BMW European Delivery and a special forum to voice your questions to the many BMW dealers on the site to assist our members!

Please follow the links below to help get you started!

Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > The Best of Bimmerfest! > BMW Diesel Owners / Enthusiasts

BMW Diesel Owners / Enthusiasts
Do you own a diesel powered BMW? Maybe a 335d or a BMW x35d? Come and talk about what makes your car great!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 03-23-2014, 04:54 PM
MotoWPK MotoWPK is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Colorado
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 290
Mein Auto: '13 128i vert, '14 X5 35d
Carbon Build Up a 335d issue?

As I wade through the results of a search for "carbon" in the diesel forum, the discussions carbon build up predominantly refer 335d's, much more so than to other BMW diesels, e.g. the X5d.

Is this impression correct? If so, since they are essentially the same engine, is there an explanation for why this would be an 335d issue but not an X5d issue?
Reply With Quote
Advertisement
  #2  
Old 03-23-2014, 06:01 PM
GreekboyD GreekboyD is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Toronto
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 576
Mein Auto: 2009 BMW 335d
X5d has a high pressure EGR and low pressure EGR while the 335d has a low pressure EGR only.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 03-23-2014, 06:27 PM
robster10 robster10 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: ontario Canada
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 140
Mein Auto: 2009 BMW 335d
AWD, and heavier vehicle puts more of a load on the motor as well.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 03-24-2014, 04:29 AM
F32Fleet F32Fleet is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: SE United States
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,437
Mein Auto: 435i, 335d sold.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MotoWPK View Post
As I wade through the results of a search for "carbon" in the diesel forum, the discussions carbon build up predominantly refer 335d's, much more so than to other BMW diesels, e.g. the X5d.

Is this impression correct? If so, since they are essentially the same engine, is there an explanation for why this would be an 335d issue but not an X5d issue?
Weight difference. The x5 has a low pressure EGR in addition to the HP EGR, but there's no proof that the volume of soot is any less with the x5.

I suspect basically that the added weight of the X5 causes the engine to reach operating temps faster and to work harder. Both help prevent premature CBU.
__________________
Current: 435i, M-sport, MPPK, MPE, ZF8HP
Previous : e90 335d, e90 330i, e46 330 zhp.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 03-24-2014, 10:04 AM
Axel61's Avatar
Axel61 Axel61 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Puerto Rico
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 916
Mein Auto: 335d
Amigos I have ran across firends of friends withe X5d that are having similar issues that the 335d has
__________________
RENNtech Flash, WAGNER IC,Koni FSDs,Execuhitch,VMR710 19"
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 03-24-2014, 12:52 PM
F32Fleet F32Fleet is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: SE United States
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,437
Mein Auto: 435i, 335d sold.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Axel61 View Post
Amigos I have ran across firends of friends withe X5d that are having similar issues that the 335d has
Do we know the mileage on these X5's?
__________________
Current: 435i, M-sport, MPPK, MPE, ZF8HP
Previous : e90 335d, e90 330i, e46 330 zhp.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 03-24-2014, 02:11 PM
robster10 robster10 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: ontario Canada
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 140
Mein Auto: 2009 BMW 335d
Quote:
Originally Posted by Axel61 View Post
Amigos I have ran across firends of friends withe X5d that are having similar issues that the 335d has
What kind of mileage are they doing? Seems that the lower mileage units are the ones having the issues.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 03-24-2014, 03:18 PM
BB_cuda's Avatar
BB_cuda BB_cuda is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Clear Lake, Texas
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 723
Mein Auto: 2011 335D Msport
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreekboyD View Post
X5d has a high pressure EGR and low pressure EGR while the 335d has a low pressure EGR only.
Greek, you sort of got this backwards. The X5d part is true but the 335D has high pressure EGR. High pressure means the gases divert through EGR tract prior to turbo and is unfiltered by the DPF on its way to injection through the EGR valve. Think of the exhaust manifold as a "T" intersection where a portion goes through EGR and rest goes into turbo inlet.

The X5D filters its low pressure EGR but doesn't filter the high press side. I don't have a feel for which one (low vs high) is used more often on the X5. I would offer a guess that more EGR flow is on the low press side by virtue of X5D having less carbon issues.

It was disturbing to me that the new US spec F10 535D didn't follow the X5D EGR method.

I can't legitimately argue with the other folks on the heavier X5 being more loaded up and warmed up quicker. Another angle to consider for the X5. X5 has a numerically higher rear diff ratio (3.15 to 1) compared to 335D (2.83 to 1) so it runs higher rpm for same given speed. 11% difference isn't huge. The diameter of the X5 tires likely increases this further though.

Last edited by BB_cuda; 03-24-2014 at 03:38 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 03-24-2014, 03:26 PM
GreekboyD GreekboyD is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Toronto
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 576
Mein Auto: 2009 BMW 335d
Thanks BB!
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 03-24-2014, 04:45 PM
DaveN007 DaveN007 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Northern California
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 247
Mein Auto: 2011 335d M-Sport
I would bet that X5 (SUV) drivers don't tend to get as passionate about their cars and post on forums like 335d drivers do. So we don't get the whole story.

We are all about the torques numbers and how cool our cars are.

I believe that any diesel with modern emissions plumbing is going to filter out more soot. The engine is a giant filter. It needs to be cleaned or "changed" every 40k miles or so. Your mileage may vary.

EDIT: After posting the above, I dropped my daughter off for a tutoring session and filled up with diesel. A guy putting gas in his truck approached me and asked, "You car is a diesel?" I said, "Yep. How could you tell?" (I am de-badged) he replied, "I could hear it. I have the diesel X5."

He then went on to ask me about the size of my engine, etc. saying that he don't know that they made diesel sedans. I told him it was the same as his...a 3.0...and he said that he thought his was a 3.5 and not a 3.0 based upon the badge.

He had never heard of any carbon build up issue and has never visited a forum.

Purely coincidental anecdotal evidence that we may not be hearing from X5 drivers around here. I hope I didn't ruin his night. LOL. Nice guy. Maybe he will show up here soon.
__________________
2011 Alpine White on Brown Dakota 335d M-Sport * Premium* Cold Weather * Harmon Kardon * XM
2015 Pearl White Fiat 500e
2015 Laguna Blue Corvette Z06 (Coming in February)



Last edited by DaveN007; 03-24-2014 at 06:25 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 03-25-2014, 07:30 AM
Axel61's Avatar
Axel61 Axel61 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Puerto Rico
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 916
Mein Auto: 335d
Amigos I dont have the mileage Im third party on this, BTW read my BMW Cutomer Relations thread OK!!
__________________
RENNtech Flash, WAGNER IC,Koni FSDs,Execuhitch,VMR710 19"
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 03-25-2014, 09:33 AM
FredoinSF FredoinSF is online now
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Bay Area and Reno
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,263
Mein Auto: 650i 330cic X5d MINI
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveN007 View Post
I would bet that X5 (SUV) drivers don't tend to get as passionate about their cars and post on forums like 335d drivers do. So we don't get the whole story.

{SNIP}
While I agree the typical X5 driver is not likely to be an avid forum participant, problems and big ticket repairs tend to send that type of owner to Google which inevitably leads them here where they post / vent once or twice and then they're gone.

With as many BMW and MINI models as I have owned I feel that common issues surface quickly on these forums and paint a fairly accurate picture of what problems may arise over time. One of the mechanics at my long time independent shop has a high mileage X5d as his family hauler and he has not had carbon build up problems to date. I was at a new place last week for a trailer hitch install and they too have an X5d in the fleet with no issues either. At this point it's all incidental and not relevant data wise, but I get the feeling that the X5d has fewer problems with carbon build up than the 335d.

Mine just hit 25k miles so it's still sucking its thumb in term of how long I intend for it to be around. Unless something catastrophic happens it should stick around for 10 years and 200-250k miles which means that at some point the ride will get bumpy. We'll see if carbon build up will be one of those bumps.
__________________



Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 03-26-2014, 06:54 PM
Lance Alot Lance Alot is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: San Francisco
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 375
Mein Auto: 2012 BMW X5 35D
The E70 board has many avid diesel fans. I don't recall seeing anything about carbon build up issues there, but I see it all the time here for the 335d. There seems to be a clear difference despite having the same engine. No offense, but the argument about X5D owners being less passionate seems weak.


Sent from BimmerApp mobile app
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 03-27-2014, 04:27 AM
F32Fleet F32Fleet is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: SE United States
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,437
Mein Auto: 435i, 335d sold.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lance Alot View Post
The E70 board has many avid diesel fans. I don't recall seeing anything about carbon build up issues there, but I see it all the time here for the 335d. There seems to be a clear difference despite having the same engine. No offense, but the argument about X5D owners being less passionate seems weak.


Sent from BimmerApp mobile app
I see what you're saying however this board covers BMW diesels in general and we rarely see a X5 owner.
__________________
Current: 435i, M-sport, MPPK, MPE, ZF8HP
Previous : e90 335d, e90 330i, e46 330 zhp.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 03-27-2014, 05:38 AM
AutoUnion's Avatar
AutoUnion AutoUnion is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: East Coast
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 5,323
Mein Auto: German
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lance Alot View Post
The E70 board has many avid diesel fans. I don't recall seeing anything about carbon build up issues there, but I see it all the time here for the 335d. There seems to be a clear difference despite having the same engine. No offense, but the argument about X5D owners being less passionate seems weak.


Sent from BimmerApp mobile app
Yup, I've been in the E70 section for years now. I don't ever remember a carbon buildup issue. There are plenty of super high mileage diesels in that section right now.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 03-27-2014, 05:38 AM
AutoUnion's Avatar
AutoUnion AutoUnion is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: East Coast
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 5,323
Mein Auto: German
Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl View Post
I see what you're saying however this board covers BMW diesels in general and we rarely see a X5 owner.
Don't think most of them know about this sub-section, but we have plenty of E70d owners over there
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 03-27-2014, 06:25 AM
Thirdy Thirdy is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Dallas/Fort Worth, TX
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 218
Mein Auto: E70Diesel, E46
I have an X5D and I visit this section once in a while but since I see most of the postings are for sedans I just went back to the X5 section. Although once in a while I also read postings on this section since sedans and X5 have the same engine.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 03-27-2014, 08:07 AM
FredoinSF FredoinSF is online now
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Bay Area and Reno
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,263
Mein Auto: 650i 330cic X5d MINI
Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl View Post
I see what you're saying however this board covers BMW diesels in general and we rarely see a X5 owner.


I check here almost daily since I started shopping for the X5 about a year ago. I don't have much to contribute other than I'm really happy with the darn thing, I've refilled DEF so I know it's not complicated, I did an oil change once so I also know the steps, and I hope to keep it for ten years / 200-250k.

I just bought a JBD for it from a guy on the E70 forum whose X5 was totaled so I might be able to contribute on that topic down the line. I also picked up his Euro curved mirrors since I don't have blind spot detection and I think those should be the norm in the US.

It only has 25k miles, but until now it's been a fantastic vehicle.

I feel bad for the 335d guys who are experiencing carbon build up. It seems like there is an engineering defect specific to that application and I hope BMW steps up to the plate. Hope is not a strategy, but calling the BMW customer service line and not giving up is a tactic that might work. Keep the updates coming.
__________________



Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 03-27-2014, 07:34 PM
Jwolffw Jwolffw is offline
Registered User
Location: Kentucky
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 3
Mein Auto: 335d
My 335d (60,000 miles) has the carbon build up issue. BMW can't manufacture enough replacement parts. Sending the intake manifold out to a shop to be cleaned..
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 03-27-2014, 07:59 PM
cliffj cliffj is offline
Registered User
Location: Birmingham, AL
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 52
Mein Auto: 2011 BMW 335d
Just as a data point, I have approx. 78K miles on my 11d and no carbon build up problems to date. About 75 miles roundtrip commuting each day, mostly highway. Usually set the cruise at about 78-80 mph. I do randomly run some BG fuel injector cleaner through the fuel tank, and sometimes pour 4 oz of optilube per tank of fuel. May not have made any difference, but it appears it hasn't hurt either.
__________________
11 335d Sapphire/BLK/M-Spt/HK/6FL/I-drive/SIRIUS

Last edited by cliffj; 03-27-2014 at 08:01 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 03-28-2014, 05:45 AM
Jwolffw Jwolffw is offline
Registered User
Location: Kentucky
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 3
Mein Auto: 335d
Thanks cliffj. I'm hearing that the issue was with 9 & 10 d's.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 03-28-2014, 02:05 PM
finnbmw's Avatar
finnbmw finnbmw is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Atlanta, GA
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 876
Mein Auto: 2010 & 2012 X5 35d
[QUOTE=cliffj;8239448I do randomly run some BG fuel injector cleaner through the fuel tank, and sometimes pour 4 oz of optilube per tank of fuel. May not have made any difference, but it appears it hasn't hurt either.[/QUOTE]

Which BG product do you use? Have you seen any impact of either the BG or Optilube use?

My 2010 X5d has 53k and no issues with CBU
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 03-28-2014, 07:50 PM
sirbikes sirbikes is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Wilmington, NC
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 188
Mein Auto: 2011 X5 35d
I have an 2011 X5d with ~70k on it and no issues. But I would love to get hold of a totaled X5d and remove the injectors, DPF, turbos and other undamaged parts so I have spares. Maybe just keep the entire totaled car next to my garage with a tarp over it. But there are companies out there that have contracts with insurance co's that do this, and the parts end up refurbished and sold on rockauto.com, for example.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 03-29-2014, 04:54 PM
cliffj cliffj is offline
Registered User
Location: Birmingham, AL
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 52
Mein Auto: 2011 BMW 335d
Quote:
Originally Posted by finnbmw View Post
Which BG product do you use? Have you seen any impact of either the BG or Optilube use?

My 2010 X5d has 53k and no issues with CBU

I've used BG244, which is the serious injector/fuel system cleaner. One quart should be enough to treat 2-3 full tanks on a 335d.
http://www.bgprod.com/catalog/diesel.../#bg-product-1

I'm also trying BG DFC Plus. Very concentrated stuff. One quart treats something like 250 gals of diesel fuel.

http://www.bgprod.com/catalog/diesel.../#bg-product-5

My concept is to use BG244 every 25K miles to give the fuel system a serious cleaning, then treat occasionally with DFC Plus to keep it cleaned and other stated benefits. You can check the links above for the description of what each product does. The indy mechanic I have used for 20 years with my previous gas burning BMW's, was a big fan of the BG44k product. BG244 is the equivalent for diesel.

I think Optilube is kind of similar to DFC Plus in that it claims to add lubricity and improves cetane rating. Also helps in real cold temps, not normally a problem in the Southeast. I ordered a 6 pack of 8oz bottles and gave it a try based on recommendations by other diesel drivers, on other boards.

I think it is hard to make a data driven judgement on these products, but I can tell when I have additives in the tank of fuel. Generally, the engine seems to run quieter and a little "smoother". I also generally get about 1.5 - 2.0 mpg average better when I have the Optilube or DFC Plus in the fuel. For instance, when I have the additives, I average about 33.5-34.0 MPG for the entire tank during my normal commute. If I'm driving a pure highway trip with the additives, I will avg a solid 38 mpg for the entire tank, cruising at between 75-80 mph. Without the additives, I usually avg just over 32 mpg on the commute and won't normally exceed 36 mpg on a highway trip.

I think if you do the math, the cost of the additives won't be recovered just by the increase in fuel mileage. However, "if" they accomplish what they advertise, then the engine/fuel system should be better off due to being cleaner, better lubricated and running a little higher cetane than just ULSD alone.
__________________
11 335d Sapphire/BLK/M-Spt/HK/6FL/I-drive/SIRIUS

Last edited by cliffj; 03-29-2014 at 05:08 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 03-30-2014, 04:24 AM
glangford glangford is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: US
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 449
Mein Auto: 328d
Quote:
Originally Posted by cliffj View Post
I've used BG244, which is the serious injector/fuel system cleaner. One quart should be enough to treat 2-3 full tanks on a 335d.
http://www.bgprod.com/catalog/diesel.../#bg-product-1

I'm also trying BG DFC Plus. Very concentrated stuff. One quart treats something like 250 gals of diesel fuel.

http://www.bgprod.com/catalog/diesel.../#bg-product-5

My concept is to use BG244 every 25K miles to give the fuel system a serious cleaning, then treat occasionally with DFC Plus to keep it cleaned and other stated benefits. You can check the links above for the description of what each product does. The indy mechanic I have used for 20 years with my previous gas burning BMW's, was a big fan of the BG44k product. BG244 is the equivalent for diesel.

I think Optilube is kind of similar to DFC Plus in that it claims to add lubricity and improves cetane rating. Also helps in real cold temps, not normally a problem in the Southeast. I ordered a 6 pack of 8oz bottles and gave it a try based on recommendations by other diesel drivers, on other boards.

I think it is hard to make a data driven judgement on these products, but I can tell when I have additives in the tank of fuel. Generally, the engine seems to run quieter and a little "smoother". I also generally get about 1.5 - 2.0 mpg average better when I have the Optilube or DFC Plus in the fuel. For instance, when I have the additives, I average about 33.5-34.0 MPG for the entire tank during my normal commute. If I'm driving a pure highway trip with the additives, I will avg a solid 38 mpg for the entire tank, cruising at between 75-80 mph. Without the additives, I usually avg just over 32 mpg on the commute and won't normally exceed 36 mpg on a highway trip.

I think if you do the math, the cost of the additives won't be recovered just by the increase in fuel mileage. However, "if" they accomplish what they advertise, then the engine/fuel system should be better off due to being cleaner, better lubricated and running a little higher cetane than just ULSD alone.
I've used BG44k in my gassers and love the product. But those engines were not direct injection. I have to wonder how the diesel variant does any good to prevent CBU on direct injection engines. Can you explain?
__________________
2014 328d.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Forum Navigation
Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > The Best of Bimmerfest! > BMW Diesel Owners / Enthusiasts
Today's Posts Search
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:19 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
© 2001-2015 performanceIX, Inc. All Rights Reserved .: guidelines .:. privacy .:. terms