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BMW Diesel Owners & Enthusiasts
Do you own a diesel powered BMW? Maybe a 335d or a BMW x35d? Come and talk about what makes your car great!

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  #1  
Old 07-29-2013, 04:38 AM
moejav moejav is offline
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Mein Auto: 13' 328i-loanr, 07' 335xi
2209 335d Clogged Intake Carbon

Just bought a 2009 335d, with 76K on it. Had it checked out, although not as thoroughly as I should have, less than 24 hours of owning it, the reduced engine power icon came on, putting it in limp mode. I ended up taking it to the dealership and it seems the Intake is clogged with carbon, and perhaps the Cylinder Head. Any way to clean the intake without replacing it? Any ideas where to get a new Intake inexpensively? The cost from the dealership is $1,200+ total installed $1,800+, if the Cylinder Head has carbon it will have to be pulled and dipped $4000+ ($3,000 labor). Any ideas would be greatly appreciated!!

Last edited by moejav; 07-29-2013 at 06:29 AM.
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  #2  
Old 07-29-2013, 06:44 AM
KeithS KeithS is offline
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Mein Auto: '11 335d, '17 340iGT
If you search the boards you will find plenty on this topic. Unfortunately think you just found out why the car was sold. Carbon build-up seems to have been a problem with the 335D on cars that accumulated a lot of miles before all the EGR and programming updates were applied in late 2011 and 2012.

The intake which is plastic costs around $800 to just buy another one. But as you seem to know, the head most likely needs to be cleaned as well. While there are in-place walnut blasting processes for gasoline engines, the diesel has dual intake paths, one being very convoluted that does not seem to allow in-place cleaning, requiring removal. I am hoping that at some point an in place head cleaning process will be developed, but has not happened so far.

Is there any recourse to go back to the seller and say split the cost? If private I'd bet they knew about the issue. Just to bring you up to speed part of the issue is due to such a high diesel power to weight ratio (which is exactly why we love this car). The same engine in the X5 had to work harder and does not seem to have as much carbon issue as in the car. There also seems to be some evidence (not confirmed) that those who drive the car hard, do not have carbon issues (high velocity in the intake system sweeps the path clean?)
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  #3  
Old 07-29-2013, 06:49 AM
F32Fleet F32Fleet is offline
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#1 carbon buildup is normal for diesel engines. Some have it worse than others.

#2 Lubro Moly Pro Line Diesel Intake Cleaner may help, but it's for preventative maintenance.

#3 Apparently it's the intake ports, not the intake runners/EGR, which develop carbon buildup up (I wonder if the swirl flaps are the cause), could also be on the exhaust side as well.
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  #4  
Old 07-29-2013, 07:21 AM
moejav moejav is offline
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Mein Auto: 13' 328i-loanr, 07' 335xi
The dealer has quoted $1800 on replacing the Intake, and $4000 on pulling the head and dipping it. On another post someone posted a link to the e90/e92 forums and it looks like at least one person maybe more have had luck in getting BMW to absorb some of the cost in doing this, as I'm not the only person I'm now finding out that has run into this problem. I'm just the first that ran into it less than 24 hours of purchasing a used 2009 335d!!
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  #5  
Old 07-29-2013, 07:22 AM
moejav moejav is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl View Post
#1 carbon buildup is normal for diesel engines. Some have it worse than others.

#2 Lubro Moly Pro Line Diesel Intake Cleaner may help, but it's for preventative maintenance.

#3 Apparently it's the intake ports, not the intake runners/EGR, which develop carbon buildup up (I wonder if the swirl flaps are the cause), could also be on the exhaust side as well.
Do you know of an EGR Delete to get around this for the future, similar to the VW TDI's? Thank you.
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  #6  
Old 07-29-2013, 08:00 AM
moejav moejav is offline
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Any ideas besides the dealer, that I could take the car to, that wouldn't be as expensive (labor & parts rate) as the dealer, in Ohio, Kentucky or Indiana?
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  #7  
Old 07-29-2013, 08:05 AM
KeithS KeithS is offline
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Mein Auto: '11 335d, '17 340iGT
Unfortunately this is complex enough that it really does need to be done at a dealer. The diesels have not been out there long enough for build up experience at independent shops to do this type of work. Guess we are spoiled here in the NE. Here in NJ there are at least 8 BMW dealers within a 1 hour drive of my house.
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  #8  
Old 07-29-2013, 11:24 AM
sirbikes sirbikes is offline
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Sorry to hear about your situation. Typically, intake becoming clogged doesn't happen overnight, so I'm guessing the previous owner knew about it. Maybe it's worth trying an injector purge. It doesn't cost a lot, and you can do it yourself. Worth a shot before spending thousands on part removal and cleaning.

http://www.liqui-moly.com.au/diy-die...ector-service/

Of course maybe this is what the prior owner tried.
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  #9  
Old 07-29-2013, 12:12 PM
GreekboyD GreekboyD is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moejav View Post
The dealer has quoted $1800 on replacing the Intake, and $4000 on pulling the head and dipping it. On another post someone posted a link to the e90/e92 forums and it looks like at least one person maybe more have had luck in getting BMW to absorb some of the cost in doing this, as I'm not the only person I'm now finding out that has run into this problem. I'm just the first that ran into it less than 24 hours of purchasing a used 2009 335d!!
Link
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  #10  
Old 07-29-2013, 02:34 PM
kadave kadave is offline
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Mein Auto: 2009 335d, Arctic White
2209 335d Clogged Intake Carbon

moejav -

So sorry to hear about the issue! What a nightmare. Confident the seller knew something. I just bought my 2009 335d last week (80k miles) and this thread scares the crap out of me.

I will try all the preventative stuff discussed here and hope the conversation continues. Please keep us all updated on how things work out. I hope you find alternate solutions.

I'm in the Akron-Cleveland Ohio area if you ever want to meet up with the Ds.

kadave


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  #11  
Old 07-29-2013, 03:34 PM
txagbmw txagbmw is offline
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who checked it out. If a BMW place, good bet a code would have come up if the previous owner had a problem. No code than
that owner would not have known.

It could have been just good timing for the seller, maybe they had a gut feeling, reading these forum and thought this baby has to go.
Sort of buyer beware on used cars, appliances, electronics, anything. On big ticket items i try to buy new if can.
BMW seems to have been great to step up and help on these extremely high
mileage cars that have a problem.

I have sold cars to friends (lol not good), they rode in the car allot. Than within hours of buying it something happen.
I go what did you do, you were just in the car. Could it be a new driving habit, just shocks the system right off.
A BMW salesman told me a BMW learns its owner, than a new driver complains, the car
has to relearn the new new drivers habit ?????????? anyone else heard this.

Last edited by txagbmw; 07-29-2013 at 03:37 PM.
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  #12  
Old 07-29-2013, 03:48 PM
GreekboyD GreekboyD is offline
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I'd say the last owner most likely cleared all fault codes before unloading the car.
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  #13  
Old 07-29-2013, 05:25 PM
Hoooper Hoooper is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by txagbmw View Post
BMW seems to have been great to step up and help on these extremely high
mileage cars that have a problem. .
76k miles is about 200k from being extremely high mileage.
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  #14  
Old 07-29-2013, 07:23 PM
135i_vs_ 135i_vs_ is offline
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My recommendation:

#1. Contact the seller! If dealer, you should be under lemon law. If private owner, shame on them, at least you know where they live. Unless they disclosed to you and sold the car cheap.
#2 contact BMW NA, just maybe they may decide to help if the dealer can pursue it as premature failure. I'd be surprised if previous owner didn't try this, should have record via vin#.

Regardless, this will be expensive and only bmw can really fix this, as lots of reprogramming will be required after repair. I would only stick with the BMW dealers for this car.
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  #15  
Old 07-29-2013, 08:30 PM
moejav moejav is offline
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Mein Auto: 13' 328i-loanr, 07' 335xi
I bought the car from a used car dealer. I took it over to a buddy whose a mechanic, he has a scan tool and has done general maintenance on later model BMW's. After he scanned and looked up the codes he told me I should take to a dealer, initially when he checked out the car he didn't see any codes etc... of course the dealer I bought it from probably has a scan tool and could have erased any codes and the car would have run with out SES or reduced engine power icon appearing for at least 1 or 2 starts, after being cleared. Most of the service records on file with BMW were performed at www.evansmotorworks.com the last being in January 2013, the dealer I took it to pointed that out and said they (the dealer I bought it from, who bought it at auction) should have known. The dealer I bought it from says they purchased the car in May 2013, almost 10k miles were put on between 01/2013 and 05/2013 since the dealer I bought it from says they only drove it maybe 20 miles while they owned it. The used car dealer says that they will pay for they're mechanic shop www.foreignx.com to replace the intake. I think I would prefer to take the $1000 or so they're willing to cough up, hope that BMW NA might step in and help as well. Hope and pray!! Thank you for all the input, I appreciate it.
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  #16  
Old 07-29-2013, 08:30 PM
moejav moejav is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreekboyD View Post
I'd say the last owner most likely cleared all fault codes before unloading the car.
Probably, but can't prove it
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  #17  
Old 07-30-2013, 05:17 AM
DC-IT DC-IT is offline
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My D had the same issues after 65,000 Miles (105,000 KM).
On top of that an injector failed and the DDE also had to be replaced to finally fix the SES.

BMW stepped up and paid most of the costs while I paid $3,800.00.

The total costs would have been over $13,000.00 to fix.

Unfortunately no Indy shop can do this job so you're at the mercy of the BMW dealer unless you have extended warranty or CPO.

After my D was finally fixed the shop foreman told me I will likely need to have the carbon buildup cleaned after another 50~60K miles.

I have since traded in my D for a 2013 E35BT.

Here's a link to my 335D issues FYI.
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Last edited by DC-IT; 07-30-2013 at 05:19 AM.
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  #18  
Old 07-30-2013, 05:24 AM
moejav moejav is offline
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Mein Auto: 13' 328i-loanr, 07' 335xi
Quote:
Originally Posted by DC-IT View Post
My D had the same issues after 65,000 Miles (105,000 KM).
On top of that an injector failed and the DDE also had to be replaced to finally fix the SES.

BMW stepped up and paid most of the costs while I paid $3,800.00.

The total costs would have been over $13,000.00 to fix.

Unfortunately no Indy shop can do this job so you're at the mercy of the BMW dealer unless you have extended warranty or CPO.

After my D was finally fixed the shop foreman told me I will likely need to have the carbon buildup cleaned after another 50~60K miles.

I have since traded in my D for a 2013 E35BT.

Here's a link to my 335D issues FYI.
Thanks for the information. I'm hoping once I get it fixed to find some sort of EGR delete kit similar to the offerings for the VW TDI's
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  #19  
Old 07-30-2013, 08:25 AM
txagbmw txagbmw is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoooper View Post
76k miles is about 200k from being extremely high mileage.
I seldom get over 20K on a car before a trade. So 76K is extremely high miles. My
last 2010 335i just traded had 11k. The 13 x5d will be traded after the warranty is
gone. On a high end car running without one is risky. I got the diesel just to see
if would like one. But will probably go back to gas since just around town driving.

I traded the 335i early because liked the looks of the E70 better than the F15. In
4 years they might do some thing to the F15 that like and stay with bmw vs going
to range rover.
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  #20  
Old 07-30-2013, 08:47 AM
KeithS KeithS is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by txagbmw View Post
I seldom get over 20K on a car before a trade.
That certainly is the other end of the spectrum. We have 3 BMWs in the family, E46 328i bought new, now with 165K miles, E39 540iT bought very used now with 150K miles, and 35K on the 335D, not even broken in. So far the only BIG surprise of the 3 cars was the trans on the 540 which cost $5K to rebuild.

Everyone does their own analysis but we're just trading deprecation for the cost of maintenance. New BMWs are getting pretty expensive these days....
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  #21  
Old 07-30-2013, 09:41 AM
sirbikes sirbikes is offline
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I am going to start using diesel fuel additive -- Opti-lube summer+ blend to prevent build-up. We don't have any premium diesel around these parts, just the 40 cetane min.
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  #22  
Old 07-30-2013, 04:52 PM
moejav moejav is offline
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Still waiting to hear back from BMW NA, but did get the bmw dealer to lower there labor rate to $145, and give me the dealership's (that I bought the car from) discount (25%) on the parts. The cost to do replace the intake went from $1,840 to $1,154 and took the cost of removing the cylinder head and dipping it from $4,000 to $2,800 and the dealer I bought the car from said that they would give me $1,000, leaving me a bill of $2900 - $3,000 I'm really hoping BMW NA steps up. I know I'm not the original owner, but we also own a 2007 335xi so it's our 2nd BMW. Since I was originally looking at $5,900 out of pocket, and now I'm looking at $2900 or so, obviously it's not great but a helluva lot better!!
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  #23  
Old 07-30-2013, 04:57 PM
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BB_cuda BB_cuda is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sirbikes View Post
I am going to start using diesel fuel additive -- Opti-lube summer+ blend to prevent build-up. We don't have any premium diesel around these parts, just the 40 cetane min.
Fuel additives are not going to help with carbon build up. Fuel is directly injected into the cylinder. Carbon is collecting in the intake manifold and intake valve ports. I wish this were the case.....
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  #24  
Old 07-30-2013, 06:23 PM
sirbikes sirbikes is offline
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Where is the carbon coming from, is it the EGR process? Maybe I should look into an EGR delete, assuming I don't run the risk of failing emissions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BB_cuda View Post
Fuel additives are not going to help with carbon build up. Fuel is directly injected into the cylinder. Carbon is collecting in the intake manifold and intake valve ports. I wish this were the case.....
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  #25  
Old 07-30-2013, 06:50 PM
F32Fleet F32Fleet is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sirbikes View Post
Where is the carbon coming from, is it the EGR process? Maybe I should look into an EGR delete, assuming I don't run the risk of failing emissions.
My understanding is that it's basically soot and oil mixing and collecting at the intake ports. It's common for diesel engines.

Personally I was aware of the potential of buildup with what the VW guys go through. Certain VW models have instances where the intake and EGR become completely blocked. That's not the case with our cars. Our cars develop the buildup at the intake ports. I decided to use a Lubro Moly product designed to address this problem. I will do it every about every 13k miles.
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