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BMW Diesel Owners / Enthusiasts
Do you own a diesel powered BMW? Maybe a 335d or a BMW x35d? Come and talk about what makes your car great!

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  #1  
Old 04-06-2013, 10:19 AM
GMaur335d GMaur335d is offline
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DPF and DEF / SCR Removal

Hi Guys,

In light of all of the conversations in regards to new exhausts and downpipes, I wanted to share that I am currently having my SCR removed and the DEF Injection portion of my car removed (both physically and in software). The work is being done by Jarek @ JR Auto in Oakville.

I am already DPF free (hollowed out and functionally removed from tune for 4 months) and I think will be one of the first (in North America) to disable the DEF/SCR portion of the car.

The car is being worked on for the next couple of weeks and I will keep you posted with the updates.

Because of the nature of the continuous exhaust piping, this might be a good opportunity to build a custom down-pipe and piping to the rear mufflers. So that might be part of the fun! We will just have to wait and see what he comes up with. I'm happy with the way it sounds now, but if this is way to get more power (or the tune can be pushed further - lower EGTS etc.) I am all for it.

I will keep you posted with any updates over the next week.

Feel free to let me know if you have any questions in the meantime.
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  #2  
Old 04-06-2013, 10:37 AM
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62Lincoln 62Lincoln is offline
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A question for Jarek as your project proceeds: does he expect to be able to reduce down time (on future installs) as he determines a course of action for this project? 2 weeks is major downtime, especially if someone has to drive from elsewhere for the work.

If you don't mind, could you pm me a general idea of how much he is charging for the work? If that's too nosey, I apologize in advance.
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Old 04-06-2013, 11:04 AM
GMaur335d GMaur335d is offline
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Yes, of course. Unfortunately I am the first to get this done so it's a little bit of trial and error. At the moment he has removed the DEF Injection from the tune but has to make sure no CEL's come on afterwards. Sometimes they don't show themselves after several days of driving. I offered my car as I am out of town on business and can't use the it anyways.
Once the parameters that need to be modified are figured out, it should be as normal as getting a tune. He works directly with Megaspeed to figure and implement those changes.

The SCR removal is a different story as it depends on the owner and how far they want to go. But again, they can use my car as a testing ground to figure out the downpipe, hangers, bungs etc. Somebody's gotta be a guinea pig...and because the exhaust is completely different than the EU one no one has the specifics until they get in there and start playing around with different combinations.
We are forging some new roads here !!

Last edited by GMaur335d; 04-06-2013 at 11:17 AM.
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  #4  
Old 04-06-2013, 12:12 PM
listerone listerone is offline
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Does Canada or any of her Provinces have mandatory emissions testing like many US states do? If so,couldn't that cause problems for you down the road? Also,I'm almost certain that US Federal law prohibits the disabling of any factory installed emissions equipment.Is the same not true in Canada? If it is it seems that you could wind up in legal trouble at some point.

Just askin'....I'm not trying to start trouble here.
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Last edited by listerone; 04-06-2013 at 12:14 PM.
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  #5  
Old 04-06-2013, 02:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GMaur335d View Post
Somebody's gotta be a guinea pig...and because the exhaust is completely different than the EU one no one has the specifics until they get in there and start playing around with different combinations.
We are forging some new roads here !!
Amen Brother! Thank you for sharing your experience as this progresses - I'm really going to enjoy reading about the progress.
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  #6  
Old 04-06-2013, 04:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GMaur335d View Post
I am already DPF free (hollowed out and functionally removed from tune for 4 months) and I think will be one of the first (in North America) to disable the DEF/SCR portion of the car.
What benefits have you seen from removing the DPF, e.g., any idea how restrictive it was to the exhaust flow? Shooting some DEF into the exhaust doesn't really provide any performance reduction, so I assume the benefits of removing the SCR system would be reducing backpressure by eliminating the related converter?

If will be interesting to see what performance improvements removal of the DPF and SCR systems will have on power and.or fuel economy. Are you dynoing it to document the impact of the changes?
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Old 04-06-2013, 06:22 PM
TDIwyse TDIwyse is offline
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Originally Posted by Penguin View Post
...any idea how restrictive it was to the exhaust flow?
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...3&postcount=25

This may be helpful to you. I measure about 2psi of DPF restriction at well above stock performance levels at max power output.
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  #8  
Old 04-06-2013, 07:19 PM
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This may be helpful to you.
Thanks!
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  #9  
Old 04-06-2013, 07:45 PM
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Get ready for the bkack plume of smoke and smelling like an f350.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Bimmer App
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  #10  
Old 04-07-2013, 08:13 AM
UncleJ UncleJ is offline
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like an OLD F350! In CA if you did that it would be off the road in a heartbeat. Just sayin.
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  #11  
Old 04-08-2013, 11:00 AM
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BB_cuda BB_cuda is offline
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The DPF removal has the long term benefit of less oil dilution from not having anymore DPF regens happening. It's not just a performance thing. The SCR removal doesn't at first glance seem to be anything about performace. I guess we wouldn't be paying $2.79/gallon for DEF (truck stop price). By the way if one assumes 3% DEF usage per gallon of diesel consumed, ths worksd out to about $0.08/gallon. In other words, when you pay $3.79/gallon for diesel (Houston price anyway) you are really paying 8 cents more per gallon when DEF usage is computed in.

From a different perspective, I have wanted to install a receiver hitch but the damn tanks are in the way save for the invisihitch which is an investment of ~$700 (but it has a 2" receiver) or uhaul makes one for ~$200 that is supposed to be a true bolt in but only has the smaller receiver and the max tounge weight is 200 lb. Neither option has attracted me enough to take the plunge yet. @Axle, before you start up, I don't want to cut my bumper cover like you had to. Your hitch is a bad MF'r though. I can say that as my initials are MF :-)
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  #12  
Old 04-09-2013, 11:44 AM
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Axel61 Axel61 is offline
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LOL Cuda I know I had to cut a little piece of the bottom bumper but its not noticeable since its in the lower part and be ONLY seen if you get under the car. But I dont regret it I have the 2" part and load both my mountain bikes(hers and mines) and go off to the beach to see the babes oops i mean the beach scenary LOL!!!
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  #13  
Old 04-10-2013, 07:46 PM
subdude subdude is offline
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Hey I am new to the forum but not diesels. I own an '11 F250 6.7L and just purchased a '10 X5 35d. How much oil dilution is typical in the 3.0L? I have had oil tested in my '11 twice and both times fuel concentration was 1.0%. I have read that for the 6.7L that concentrations below 7% are acceptable.
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  #14  
Old 04-10-2013, 08:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by subdude View Post
Hey I am new to the forum but not diesels. I own an '11 F250 6.7L and just purchased a '10 X5 35d. How much oil dilution is typical in the 3.0L? I have had oil tested in my '11 twice and both times fuel concentration was 1.0%. I have read that for the 6.7L that concentrations below 7% are acceptable.
Do a Google on:

oil analysis diesel fuel dilution limits

And a lot of interesting stuff will pop-up.

My understanding has been that 4-5% is roughly the limit before the dilution is enough to cause the oil viscosity to go out of spec. Of course, there are other issues, such as increased oxidation, associated with fuel dilution, so less is always better, but most oil analysis places I've used don't seem to flag it until it gets to the 4-5% region.
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  #15  
Old 04-10-2013, 08:26 PM
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floydarogers floydarogers is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by subdude View Post
Hey I am new to the forum but not diesels. I own an '11 F250 6.7L and just purchased a '10 X5 35d. How much oil dilution is typical in the 3.0L? I have had oil tested in my '11 twice and both times fuel concentration was 1.0%. I have read that for the 6.7L that concentrations below 7% are acceptable.
Our Blackstone labs reports list the fuel dilution limits at less than 2%. All the ones I've seen (even at 10K miles or so) are less than that.
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  #16  
Old 04-11-2013, 04:32 AM
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Axel61 Axel61 is offline
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Maur keep us posted the exhaust system Im interested in w DPF removal
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  #17  
Old 04-11-2013, 04:58 AM
TDIwyse TDIwyse is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by subdude View Post
Hey I am new to the forum but not diesels. I own an '11 F250 6.7L and just purchased a '10 X5 35d. How much oil dilution is typical in the 3.0L? I have had oil tested in my '11 twice and both times fuel concentration was 1.0%. I have read that for the 6.7L that concentrations below 7% are acceptable.
Some 335d UOA's in this thread:

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=537349
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  #18  
Old 05-01-2013, 06:09 PM
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Any updates on the DPF removal yet?
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Old 05-03-2013, 03:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by subdude View Post
Hey I am new to the forum but not diesels. I own an '11 F250 6.7L and just purchased a '10 X5 35d. How much oil dilution is typical in the 3.0L? I have had oil tested in my '11 twice and both times fuel concentration was 1.0%. I have read that for the 6.7L that concentrations below 7% are acceptable.
Subdude, in the My Oil Analysis thread you can find some data we received from Blackstone labs on BMW Diesels. I don't recall seeing anyone with a fuel dilution problem and I would not expect it would be given the design of our fuel injection system. I think the risk of fuel mixing with the lube oil is quite low.
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Old 05-03-2013, 04:50 AM
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Be careful if you live in an area with biodiesel blends. Bio changes the equation in regards to fuel dilution, and oil change intervals.
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Old 05-03-2013, 10:20 AM
TDIwyse TDIwyse is offline
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Originally Posted by 62Lincoln View Post
Be careful if you live in an area with biodiesel blends. Bio changes the equation in regards to fuel dilution, and oil change intervals.
As a data point on this issue: My UOA's were done with fuel primarily from the local Sinclair truck stop I fill up at ~95% of the time using between 5-20% biodiesel (you don't know exactly what % blend you're getting).

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...4&postcount=20

No issues with oil dilution.
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  #22  
Old 05-04-2013, 05:44 AM
GMaur335d GMaur335d is offline
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UPDATE - I now have the DEF Injection removed the from the car in software and the Injector and sensors all un-hooked.
The DEF tank has now been emptied and I have driven for about 1-2K without it.
I also had the tune dialled up a bit so I get a tad bit of smoke a WOT, but nothing with anything less.
We haven't had a chance to remove the SCR / DPF housing physically as the piping is odd. All of the links between the DPF and SCR are OVAL in shape, so it's not easy to just cut it out.
What we have been considering doing is creating a new down-pipe that goes in place of the DPF (eliminates Pre-cat) and goes all the way to muffler split after the SCR.
I do like how quiet the car is now, but Megaspeed has been seeing results of 350+HP and 550+TQ with the EU spec car so I'm tempted to try for that with the SCR and DPF!
In any case, something for the near future ..maybe.
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  #23  
Old 05-05-2013, 02:01 PM
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Doesn't it make sense to get rid of the EGR as well? That isn't doing our engine any favors.

I can imagine if it is finely tuned and working it accomplishes its goal of NOX reduction, but one miscue and you are sucking in your exhaust fumes in the intake once again.

These folks with intake manifold build up issues must be from an EGR problem.

If I end up keeping my car past the 100k mark, I'll seriously be looking to eliminate the EGR and DEF. These seem to be the root of all evil in these cars.
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Old 05-05-2013, 04:19 PM
GMaur335d GMaur335d is offline
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I agree that this is the problem.
I have bee running EGR deleted from the tune for quite a while now.
In fact - it was one of the first things I did!
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Old 05-05-2013, 04:21 PM
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I agree that this is the problem.
I have bee running EGR deleted from the tune for quite a while now.
In fact - it was one of the first things I did!
Did you bore it out or replace the EGR with a bypass?
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