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  #1  
Old 11-23-2003, 10:13 AM
pintnight pintnight is offline
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Question How to get a dealer to negotiate below/at invoice price?

I can rarely get a dealer to negotiate the price of the car at or below invoice. So, I have yet to buy a car at or below invoice. Though I did get them to come down.

Those of you that did get it at or below invoice, how did you do it? Do just tell them "I'll buy it at (or $500 below) invoice." and if they say "No", do you just leave or do you haggle with to get them to lower it down?

The worse I have heard from a sales person is that they said "We do negotiate." my response is "I'll take my money to another dealer.".
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  #2  
Old 11-23-2003, 10:34 AM
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SARAFIL SARAFIL is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pintnight
I can rarely get a dealer to negotiate the price of the car at or below invoice. So, I have yet to buy a car at or below invoice. Though I did get them to come down.

Those of you that did get it at or below invoice, how did you do it? Do just tell them "I'll buy it at (or $500 below) invoice." and if they say "No", do you just leave or do you haggle with to get them to lower it down?

The worse I have heard from a sales person is that they said "We do negotiate." my response is "I'll take my money to another dealer.".
Good luck buying any high-end, limited-availability vehicle at below invoice price unless there happens to be some sort of cash-back/rebate/maketing allowance or unless you own, work for, or have mafia-like connections with a dealer or the manufacturer.
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  #3  
Old 11-23-2003, 12:14 PM
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I never really understood how the US system works. Over here, one never pays the "official price", the dealer will make a first offer with a small discount (got a first offer at 4%), then you start to work from there to lower the price further down. Is it because BMWs are in too much demand in the US that you have to pay over the official prices ?
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  #4  
Old 11-23-2003, 12:27 PM
tgravo2 tgravo2 is offline
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Why do you have to buy at or below invoice. A car dealership is a business and a business is supposed to make money. Do you want them to lose money?

When you go to the store, do you try to get your groceries at cost?

I'm not saying you have to buy for sticker, but if a dealer gave you $1500 off of sticker, why is that not good enough?
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  #5  
Old 11-23-2003, 12:44 PM
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mquetel mquetel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tgravo2
Why do you have to buy at or below invoice. A car dealership is a business and a business is supposed to make money. Do you want them to lose money?

When you go to the store, do you try to get your groceries at cost?

I'm not saying you have to buy for sticker, but if a dealer gave you $1500 off of sticker, why is that not good enough?
This whole debate is kind of pointless outside of the context of market demand and availability. For some cars, invoice or below pricing may be realistic, for others not. Most cars I want would not be available for invoice and I know that.

I don't mind a dealership making a reasonable profit, but your blanket statement about $1500 off sticker seems silly and not how I would spend my money. My decision is going to be based on what is the invoice price, what incentives are available, what deals I hear are being made, how much I want the car and how much time/effort I am willing to invest in grinding the price to a given bottom line. Sticker price is a fiction that is not worth bargaining from, except on exotics (which are out of my range anyway).
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  #6  
Old 11-23-2003, 12:45 PM
pintnight pintnight is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tgravo2
Why do you have to buy at or below invoice. A car dealership is a business and a business is supposed to make money. Do you want them to lose money?
The lower the price of the car is better for me. It's not that I don't want them to lose money, I just think cars are way over priced to begin with.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tgravo2
When you go to the store, do you try to get your groceries at cost?
I have always negotiated to buy a car at a lower price. It's a game that has been played for years when buying a car.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tgravo2
I'm not saying you have to buy for sticker, but if a dealer gave you $1500 off of sticker, why is that not good enough?
I've always been able to buy a car below the sticker price. But, I have friends that did buy a car at invoice or below (they got a killer deal with new models, not old models the dealer trying to get rid of to make room for the new models).

I've always been satisified getting the dealer to come down on the sticker price to what I want to pay. But, would be nice to be able to get a new car at invoice or below.
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  #7  
Old 11-23-2003, 12:46 PM
tgravo2 tgravo2 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mquetel
This whole debate is kind of pointless outside of the context of market demand and availability. For some cars, invoice or below pricing may be realistic, for others not. Most cars I want would not be available for invoice and I know that.

I don't mind a dealership making a reasonable profit, but your blanket statement about $1500 off sticker seems silly and not how I would spend my money. My decision is going to be based on what is the invoice price, what incentives are available, what deals I hear are being made, how much I want the car and how much time/effort I am willing to invest in grinding the price to a given bottom line. Sticker price is a fiction that is not worth bargaining from, except on exotics (which are out of my range anyway).
I just threw a number out there, and $1500 off of most bmw's would be pretty good.
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  #8  
Old 11-23-2003, 01:50 PM
LDV330i LDV330i is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Betcour
I never really understood how the US system works. Over here, one never pays the "official price", the dealer will make a first offer with a small discount (got a first offer at 4%), then you start to work from there to lower the price further down. Is it because BMWs are in too much demand in the US that you have to pay over the official prices ?
BMW North America gives dealers a yearly car quota (allocation) that is probably slightly below market demand to keep prices at or near MSRP ("official prices"). Sometimes it misjudges the market and has to give factory approved discounts when cars do not sell as fast as forecasted.

Apparently the Z4's are not selling. Currently there is a $5,000 payment allowance (in good english = rebate/discount) on the Z4 3.0 and a $4,500 allowance on Z4 2.5.
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  #9  
Old 11-23-2003, 02:01 PM
tgravo2 tgravo2 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pintnight

I've always been able to buy a car below the sticker price. But, I have friends that did buy a car at invoice or below (they got a killer deal with new models, not old models the dealer trying to get rid of to make room for the new models).

I've always been satisified getting the dealer to come down on the sticker price to what I want to pay. But, would be nice to be able to get a new car at invoice or below.
I dunno what car your friend was looking at but you can get a car well below invoice with things like rebats/cash back. We are selling Ford rangers right now $5k below invoice because of rebates. What sucks is that people are coming in and still complaining that it's not a good enough deal. If they think buying a V6, automatic that stickers for 19,900 and we are selling it under 13k is a bad deal, then they are just stupid. With no rebates you shouldn't buy a car for under invoice, close is acceptable but I wouldn't go looking for a car expecting to get it under invoice.

Last edited by tgravo2; 11-23-2003 at 02:04 PM.
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  #10  
Old 11-23-2003, 02:14 PM
pintnight pintnight is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tgravo2
I dunno what car your friend was looking at but you can get a car well below invoice with things like rebats/cash back. We are selling Ford rangers right now $5k below invoice because of rebates. What sucks is that people are coming in and still complaining that it's not a good enough deal. If they think buying a V6, automatic that stickers for 19,900 and we are selling it under 13k is a bad deal, then they are just stupid. With no rebates you shouldn't buy a car for under invoice, close is acceptable but I wouldn't go looking for a car expecting to get it under invoice.
Obviously those people are stupid. If I was looking at Ford rangers and you selling it for under 13k, I would jump on it.
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  #11  
Old 11-23-2003, 02:41 PM
tgravo2 tgravo2 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pintnight
Obviously those people are stupid. If I was looking at Ford rangers and you selling it for under 13k, I would jump on it.
There has never been a time where the deals are as good as they are now. A few years ago you could get a base XL x-cab, 5 spd, 4 cyl, stripped for about 13k, now you are getting, XLT x-cab, auto, v6, tilt, cruise, CD player, for under 13k

We have one, all power, mp3/cd, premium sound, 4 doors, 4WD supsension, v6, auto, sticker is 23,600, selling for 15,986

It's crazy right now
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  #12  
Old 11-23-2003, 02:48 PM
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SARAFIL SARAFIL is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tgravo2
We have one, all power, mp3/cd, premium sound, 4 doors, 4WD supsension, v6, auto, sticker is 23,600, selling for 15,986

It's crazy right now
Still not enough $$ off to get me to buy one of those death traps.

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  #13  
Old 11-23-2003, 02:59 PM
tgravo2 tgravo2 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SARAFIL
Still not enough $$ off to get me to buy one of those death traps.

death traps?
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  #14  
Old 11-23-2003, 03:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tgravo2
death traps?
Yes... very unsafe vehicle.
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  #15  
Old 11-23-2003, 03:48 PM
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BlackChrome BlackChrome is offline
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It's a lot easier to buy a domestic at or below invoice than an import (Ford and Chevy alwys have some kind of incentive/rebate). I work at Honda dealership and if I was going to buy a brand new Honda, I'd have to pay 3% over the invoice (I wonder why I got an used 330 instead of a brand new S2000 ).

That being said, we have bought 3 brand new cars and they were all way below MSRP (but still above the invoice). NEVER pay MSRP unless it's a limited edition car (like a Lancer EVO or M3 ).
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  #16  
Old 11-23-2003, 04:31 PM
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Travis, what is your obsession with MSRP? It's not as if that number actually means anything.
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  #17  
Old 11-23-2003, 04:48 PM
JetBlack330i JetBlack330i is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SARAFIL
Good luck buying any high-end, limited-availability vehicle at below invoice price unless there happens to be some sort of cash-back/rebate/maketing allowance or unless you own, work for, or have mafia-like connections with a dealer or the manufacturer.
Doesn't the above still apply even after you take "high-end, limited-availability" off the sentence?
That would mean any vehicle, no?

Last edited by JetBlack330i; 11-23-2003 at 05:07 PM.
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  #18  
Old 11-23-2003, 04:59 PM
JetBlack330i JetBlack330i is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tgravo2
What sucks is that people are coming in and still complaining that it's not a good enough deal. If they think buying a V6, automatic that stickers for 19,900 and we are selling it under 13k is a bad deal, then they are just stupid.
Maybe the 19,900 sticker is unrealistically above market value?
I don't think consumers are stupid. If you can barely sell them at 13K, then that's what they are almost worth...

Last edited by JetBlack330i; 11-23-2003 at 06:14 PM.
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  #19  
Old 11-23-2003, 05:01 PM
JetBlack330i JetBlack330i is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pintnight
Obviously those people are stupid. If I was looking at Ford rangers and you selling it for under 13k, I would jump on it.
But why are you not looking at Ford rangers?
Those people are not stupid. They are simply saying that it will take a bit more motivation than the $5K rebate to make them look at Ford rangers.
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  #20  
Old 11-23-2003, 05:08 PM
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SARAFIL SARAFIL is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JetBlack330i
Doesn't the above still apply even after you take "high-end, limited-availability" off the sentence?
Nope.... I chose those words for a reason. If the car is limited in availabilty or highly sought after, you can probably expect to not find any kind of rebates or such on it. In that case, you can't reasonably expect to go under invoice. If the car doesn't fulfil either of these criteria, then there is a better chance (although not definate) that there'll be a rebate on it, and you can probably do invoice or lower.

The reason I said it the way I did is that is it rare to find a rebate on a car like a BMW unless it is the end of a model run, or the end of the year. Companies like Ford roll out the rebates right at the beginning of the model year, and they are usually always in effect.
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  #21  
Old 11-23-2003, 05:11 PM
JetBlack330i JetBlack330i is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SARAFIL
Nope.... I chose those words for a reason. If the car is limited in availabilty or highly sought after, you can probably expect to not find any kind of rebates or such on it. In that case, you can't reasonably expect to go under invoice. If the car doesn't fulfil either of these criteria, then there is a better chance (although not definate) that there'll be a rebate on it, and you can probably do invoice or lower.
Rebate is the key. It doesn't matter if it's high end or not.
If a low-end car doesn't have rebate, you won't find it at below invoice.
OTOH, a Z4 can be called high-end, and it's going for under invoice.

Last edited by JetBlack330i; 11-23-2003 at 06:13 PM.
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  #22  
Old 11-23-2003, 06:43 PM
JetBlack330i JetBlack330i is offline
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Originally Posted by Dave 330i
I'm surprised that no one tried to answer pintnight's question, and that is how to negotiate from invoice rather than at MSRP or even worst, "market condition mark ups" like my local dealer. I agree that a dealer is in business to make money, but I'm going to do my best to get the best deal for myself.
I'm disapointed you didn't do it neither.
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  #23  
Old 11-23-2003, 07:12 PM
Motown328 Motown328 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pintnight
I can rarely get a dealer to negotiate the price of the car at or below invoice. So, I have yet to buy a car at or below invoice. Though I did get them to come down.

Those of you that did get it at or below invoice, how did you do it? Do just tell them "I'll buy it at (or $500 below) invoice." and if they say "No", do you just leave or do you haggle with to get them to lower it down?

The worse I have heard from a sales person is that they said "We do negotiate." my response is "I'll take my money to another dealer.".

Really easy. Come on down to Detroit and go to any Big Three dealership. If you are paying anything over $5000 under invoice, you've been suckered. Hahahahaha.....
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  #24  
Old 11-23-2003, 07:16 PM
tgravo2 tgravo2 is offline
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Originally Posted by DougDogs
plus what the heck is 4WD suspension???
It's just like a PreRunner Tacoma, it has everything the 4WD has except the transfer case. Ride Height, shocks, etc. Lots of poeple like it because it looks like a 4x4
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  #25  
Old 11-23-2003, 07:22 PM
tgravo2 tgravo2 is offline
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Originally Posted by ·clyde·
Travis, what is your obsession with MSRP? It's not as if that number actually means anything.
my point didn't have to do with MSRP, it was the fact that you are getting a well equipped truck for 5,000 under Invoice. If they come to the dealer looking at the truck and see 5,000 under invoice, and are complaining, then what did they expect when coming, 6-7k under invoice??? You just don't find that.
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