F10 vs 2008 528i - not meeting expectations

Originally Posted by chrischeung

they share the same platform. Bmw is currently running 2 base platforms i believe:

1/3/x1/x3/z4
x5/5/7

that's why you see a lot of common technology, chassis components, engines, drivetrains between the cars. It's cheaper to develop and manufacture. It's also one of the reasons why cars are so heavy, since the basic platform needs to be shared across models.

6?

Originally Posted by 760Lifan

You know what? As a former 2006 M5 owner myself I absolutely believe you!
I think I would even pick the F10 550i over the upcoming M5. The "package" BMW delivered on this one (technology, performance AND fuel-consumption) is simply amazing!

Really? If you are really a 760Li fan, I believe you too.

Originally Posted by enigma

Really? If you are really a 760Li fan, I believe you too.

Yep, I also owned a 2006 760Li - and a fully loaded 2011 550i is probably the better car. 5 years are a lot when it comes to high-tech vehicles.

Count me among the underwhelmed.

I loved my E39 540i SP. I loved my E60 550i SP. I REALLY love my E93 M3. So when I went to the Ultimate Drive I fully expected to love the F10 550. Even though I spent 30 minutes wringing one out (no salesman along) and played with all the different Adaptive Drive settings, I felt no emotional involvement with the car. Yes, it's pretty. Yes the interior is nice. Yes, it is quiet and tight and has lots of toys. But the steering was numb (regardless of setting) and if the car had a soul I sure couldn't find it.

I enjoyed the drive home in my 3-year-old X5 more than the 30 minutes I spent wringing out the 550. Better steering, better brake feel, better throttle response. Sad but true.

Originally Posted by quackbury

Count me among the underwhelmed.

I loved my E39 540i SP. I loved my E60 550i SP. I REALLY love my E93 M3. So when I went to the Ultimate Drive I fully expected to love the F10 550. Even though I spent 30 minutes wringing one out (no salesman along) and played with all the different Adaptive Drive settings, I felt no emotional involvement with the car. Yes, it's pretty. Yes the interior is nice. Yes, it is quiet and tight and has lots of toys. But the steering was numb (regardless of setting) and if the car had a soul I sure couldn't find it.

I enjoyed the drive home in my 3-year-old X5 more than the 30 minutes I spent wringing out the 550. Better steering, better brake feel, better throttle response. Sad but true.

Funny how two people can get a different impression: I probably went to the same event and drove the same car as you did and I found it to handle superbly in the sport and sport+ modes. In comparison to my 535 sport, it took sharp curves and absorbed the road imperfections noticeably better. However, 30 mins or so was not enough for me to make a definitive judgment about the car's soul; I also have some concerns about the steering.

Originally Posted by Sync550i

I agree I had a 2008 M5 and people looked at me funny when I told them it cost 95K. sometimes people expect more for there money than simplicity. That being said I'm much happier with my 550i not missing the M5 one bit and you can take that to the bank....

I am torn between the F10 M5 and 550i, I have not driven either yet.
Do you think I will enjoy the 550i getting out of the E90 M3?.

I have owned a 528i and my current 550i (plus an X3 sport).

Went to the local BMW dealership to just see the new F10 and sit in it. No driving impressions. I do not like the exterior style..too conservative and looks like the 7-series, not a positive. It also at least looks larger.

The interior....eh...too shiny. glossy everywhere. Looked more American to me. Caddy or, gasp, Buick.

When I upgrade my 2007 550i, I will probably get a CPO 2010.

Originally Posted by quackbury

Count me among the underwhelmed.

I loved my E39 540i SP. I loved my E60 550i SP. I REALLY love my E93 M3. So when I went to the Ultimate Drive I fully expected to love the F10 550. Even though I spent 30 minutes wringing one out (no salesman along) and played with all the different Adaptive Drive settings, I felt no emotional involvement with the car. Yes, it's pretty. Yes the interior is nice. Yes, it is quiet and tight and has lots of toys. But the steering was numb (regardless of setting) and if the car had a soul I sure couldn't find it.

I enjoyed the drive home in my 3-year-old X5 more than the 30 minutes I spent wringing out the 550. Better steering, better brake feel, better throttle response. Sad but true.

I agree with you 100%... In fact, my first words to my CA after my 550i test drive was "I'm underwhelmed".

Originally Posted by johnbmw6

I am torn between the F10 M5 and 550i, I have not driven either yet.
Do you think I will enjoy the 550i getting out of the E90 M3?.

In a word, no.

Coming from an E93 M3, I found the F10 550's steering feel and brake feel to be lacking. Not just compared to the M3 (which is pretty much the industry's high water mark, IMHO), but also the E39, E60 and even the Cadillac CTS-V. As I noted in an earlier post, I actually enjoyed driving my X5 home from the dealership more than I enjoyed driving the 550.

When it becomes available, I would expect the F10 M5 to improve upon the 550 in these areas, the same way our M3's raise the bar over the regular E90, E91 and E93.

That said, I do prefer the new 550 over the Jaguar, Lexus, Audi and Mercedes offerings. (Ultimate Drive had a E-class Merc for comparison drives and it drove like a Buick compared to the 550). But I would seriously consider the CTS-V if I was in the market for a 550.

YMMV

Originally Posted by quackbury

In a word, no.

Coming from an E93 M3, I found the F10 550's steering feel and brake feel to be lacking. Not just compared to the M3 (which is pretty much the industry's high water mark, IMHO), but also the E39, E60 and even the Cadillac CTS-V. As I noted in an earlier post, I actually enjoyed driving my X5 home from the dealership more than I enjoyed driving the 550.

When it becomes available, I would expect the F10 M5 to improve upon the 550 in these areas, the same way our M3's raise the bar over the regular E90, E91 and E93.

That said, I do prefer the new 550 over the Jaguar, Lexus, Audi and Mercedes offerings. (Ultimate Drive had a E-class Merc for comparison drives and it drove like a Buick compared to the 550). But I would seriously consider the CTS-V if I was in the market for a 550.

YMMV

Thanks, M5 test drive then.

Originally Posted by johnbmw6

I am torn between the F10 M5 and 550i, I have not driven either yet.
Do you think I will enjoy the 550i getting out of the E90 M3?.

No F10 M5 yet, so you'll have to wait.

Obviously, it'll be subjective, so nothing will replace your own test drive.

If you enjoyed your M3, I suspect you won't be 100% satisfied with the 550i, but I am sure many will disagree with me, especially on this forum.

Originally Posted by enigma

No F10 M5 yet, so you'll have to wait.

Obviously, it'll be subjective, so nothing will replace your own test drive.

If you enjoyed your M3, I suspect you won't be 100% satisfied with the 550i, but I am sure many will disagree with me, especially on this forum.

I will test drive the 550i and the M5 just to make a proper judgement.
My BMW Dealership seems to think the M5 will come in basic form for high 60's ( UK pounds)
So if this is true the price will be "reasonable".

Originally Posted by wessew

I respect your experience and opinion. It seems that if the F10 is not "properly" optioned out with the sports package, the adaptive suspension and active steering it may have a somewhat sluggish feel to it based on other reviewer comments. Did the 535i you drive have these packages or was it the base model? These same reviewers have indicated that which the right packages, the vehicle retains its sporting character and driver connection to the road and is an improvement over the outgoing model.

part of the problem with the driving experience, even noted by Top Gear is the "active steering"... option out of that... I drove one at one dealer with it and one at another dealer without it and I noticed the difference...

Besides my previous posting notes on the new 5 series, I'm gonna stick with my 528i for the time being. Maybe take a look at 2012 editions - hopefully some of the issues noted are addressed...

My biggest concern is the twin turbo system... the three series (335i, etc) has had notable issues with theirs. I hope BMW didn't use the same components for the 5... if so, I'll pass...

Originally Posted by enigma

No F10 M5 yet, so you'll have to wait.

Obviously, it'll be subjective, so nothing will replace your own test drive.

If you enjoyed your M3, I suspect you won't be 100% satisfied with the 550i, but I am sure many will disagree with me, especially on this forum.

Hey Enigma... off subject... what do you think of the changing of the "AD" guard; removing Bush/Mayo imagery and returning Bush's Heisman...

That whole situation is so majorly disappointing...

Originally Posted by quackbury

In a word, no.

Coming from an E93 M3, I found the F10 550's steering feel and brake feel to be lacking. Not just compared to the M3 (which is pretty much the industry's high water mark, IMHO), but also the E39, E60 and even the Cadillac CTS-V. As I noted in an earlier post, I actually enjoyed driving my X5 home from the dealership more than I enjoyed driving the 550.

When it becomes available, I would expect the F10 M5 to improve upon the 550 in these areas, the same way our M3's raise the bar over the regular E90, E91 and E93.

That said, I do prefer the new 550 over the Jaguar, Lexus, Audi and Mercedes offerings. (Ultimate Drive had a E-class Merc for comparison drives and it drove like a Buick compared to the 550). But I would seriously consider the CTS-V if I was in the market for a 550.

YMMV

I drove the CTS-V at a driver's event put on by GM several months ago - and although it's a nice straight line car, with lots of power... I'm not quite ready to compare it to a BMW... but that's based on driving particular's... I don't believe the CTS-V is as nimble in the turns and/or it's handling is particularly "good"... that being said, the new 5 series isn't as nimble in the bends as my old 528i... it actually feels heavy and not very confident... and that's in the Sport Mode setting... interesting....

Originally Posted by Walksbimmer

Hey Enigma... off subject... what do you think of the changing of the "AD" guard; removing Bush/Mayo imagery and returning Bush's Heisman...

That whole situation is so majorly disappointing...

Yeah, very disappointed. I don't think NCAA has been entirely fair, but what's done is done. Just looking forward to the September opener.

Originally Posted by Walksbimmer

I drove the CTS-V at a driver's event put on by GM several months ago - and although it's a nice straight line car, with lots of power... I'm not quite ready to compare it to a BMW... but that's based on driving particular's... I don't believe the CTS-V is as nimble in the turns and/or it's handling is particularly "good"... that being said, the new 5 series isn't as nimble in the bends as my old 528i... it actually feels heavy and not very confident... and that's in the Sport Mode setting... interesting....

To be fair, I never test drove the CTS-V, but all the reviews that I read compare it very favorably against the e60 M5. IF that's the case, I suspect it will compare VERY favorably against the f10 550i. However, I am not quite sure if I would pick the CTS-V over the 550i though.

Today I drove the 535i. In a word it was unrewarding. It had the Dynamic Drive, but even in Sport Plus, the car just felt too Lexus like. You could barely hear the engine and i hate to say it but it wasn't like classic BMW's which used Revs and short gearing to produce a lot of entertainment. This usually meant that BMW's revved higher but this was the energy you could feel through the whole car. You also got a reward for pushing the engine to high revs as you got more pull as you went. They didn't have engines with perfectly flat torque curves (535i) where there is very little reward for revving the engine more.

Athough I haven't driven it, I would guess that for those who enjoy cars(on public roads), the 528i may actually be more enteraining in day to day driving at normal road speeds + 20%, you won't have to flog it to the nth degree to get that BMW feel, like you have to in the 535i or even more so in the 550i, get the revs going in those cars and here in the People's Republic of Ontario they take the car away.

With shorter gearing it will always Rev higher, and with 230 lbs of torque should still go quite nicely. Because of the lower weight and shorter gearing it will feel like it has about 270lbs of torque compared to the 535's 300.

The other consideration is that it is 276 lbs lighter than an 535i and has a perfect 50/50 weight distribution. It's also 562 lbs lighter than a 550. These are not insignificant sums.

If it is sprung the same as the 535i it should have less roll in the corners as well, if not aftermarket springs could easily be fitted.

I remember that in previous generations they used to build lower HP 5's lighter, that seems to be the case here as well as the weight difference between the 535 and 528 can't be accounted for all in the engine, bigger brakes and wheels would add some, but maybe they use more aluminum in the 528i?

Originally Posted by enigma

Yeah, very disappointed. I don't think NCAA has been entirely fair, but what's done is done. Just looking forward to the September opener.




To be fair, I never test drove the CTS-V, but all the reviews that I read compare it very favorably against the e60 M5. IF that's the case, I suspect it will compare VERY favorably against the f10 550i. However, I am not quite sure if I would pick the CTS-V over the 550i though.

I believe with the CTS-V, GM is on it's way, but it's not a BMW "killer" yet... I wouldn't pick a CTS over a Bimmer either...

The new 5 series seems to downplay it's natural heritage....

The F10 is a bigger car than its predecessor. I think to enjoy it you need a bigger engine, fat tires, and the dynamic handling package. I would also ditch the dunlops it comes with and put on Bridgestone RE-11s or Michelin PS2s.

I just test drove the 550i - was surprised to agree with all the detractors. Steering was numb, and it didn't even seem as powerful as I expected - was a bit jerky with quick throttle changes. Was expecting more engine noise, didn't get much. The sports suspension was a bit fun to adjust, but the "Comfort" setting wasn't as smooth as I was hoping for. I mainly was impressed by the new I-Drive, and the seats - and I love the new speedo display area. The steering wheel also has some niceties with the little scroll item for flipping around menus, nice improvements. And I simply don't like the looks - loved them when I first saw the car online, but doesn't work for me in person (and I love both the E39 and the E60 in their own ways).

Considering I'm in a 530i now, I was expecting to be blown away. Not in the least, in fact, loved getting back into it, steering feels great! And for 99% of the driving I do, they perform about the same, sad fact of living in a city. The new 550i didn't seem any quieter, either, I was hoping they'd up the noise isolation a bit.

Made me very happy that we're getting an X5, now I don't feel like I'm missing anything.

IMO, one of the reasons people say that the F10, both the .35 and .50 versions don't 'feel' as fast is that they are so smooth in their power delivery, and the ride is so composed that you are fooled into thinking that the objective performance is not there. It is.

Originally Posted by Kamdog

IMO, one of the reasons people say that the F10, both the .35 and .50 versions don't 'feel' as fast is that they are so smooth in their power delivery, and the ride is so composed that you are fooled into thinking that the objective performance is not there. It is.

Exactly and that to me is why it fails as a BMW. They have built a Lexus. BMW's always felt like they were 'alive' even at moderate speeds, you could feel a subtle vibration through the steering wheel, the engine was very responsive even at legal speeds (the 535's engine doesn't really have lag, but it feels like there is an elastic band in the driveline somewhere, making not as direct as in previous BMW's).

I think one of the issues is that they have been reading forums like these, with people dismissing driving traits and going ga-ga over gadgets. They used to spend the majority of there time making a great drivers car. When one of my 80 year old clients who can barely drive as she has cataracts bought a previous 550 as she liked the way it rode on Toronto streets I knew the end was near.

They have lost the plot. Give me a 5er(for the size) with a normally aspirated engine, 20% stiffer springs, and ditch as much of the techno junk as possible to get the weight down (I only want minimal options - regular sized moonroof, heated seats and a half decent stereo).

I've always wanted a 5 (I've had an Z3, 98 M3, 01 X5 4.4 and most recently one of the first E90 330i with a sport pack and 6spMT) and remember the last 5 I tried, a 545 with 6spMT, that was a car. This one other than looking very impressive on the road, just isn't a drivers car.

I drove a base X6 3.5i yesterday at the same time as the 535 and it was a lot more impressive as a drivers car. The E350 4 matic I drove 30 minutes later also felt more 'alive' than the 535i.

BMW, please get on this right away and bring us a real M-Sport pack, with suspension and steering mods with X-Drive(I live in Canada), before Audi steels your traditional driver.