Which states make OBDII scanning illegal by the auto parts store? Why?

In which states is it illegal for an auto-parts store to read and/or clear your OBDII diagnostic trouble codes (DTC) for free ... and why?

1. California
2. Hawaii
3. ???

I know of two, states, according to this article, which made it illegal for the store (AutoZone, Kragen, Pep Boys, etc.) to check your OBD II codes (whether they check the codes for you or whether you check them yourself and then return the OBD II scanner back to them). This is for checking the codes, but I presume clearing them would also be covered under the law.

Anyone have the text of this (seemingly crazy) law (along with the one that you can't put a GPS in the middle of your windshield).

Which states made it illegal for parts stores to scan and/or clear your OBD diagnostic trouble codes? Why?

Originally Posted by bluebee

In which states is it illegal for an auto-parts store to read your OBDII diagnostic trouble codes (DTC) for free ... and why?

1. California
2. Hawaii
3. ???

I know of two, states, according to this article, which made it illegal for the store (AutoZone, Kragen, Pep Boys, etc.) to check your OBD II codes (whether they check the codes for you or whether you check them yourself and then return the OBD II scanner back to them).

Which states? Why?

The guys at Autozone told me that it's so auto repair places can charge you to scan and clear the codes and not have to compete with auto parts stores doing it for free.

Why is it illegal to pump your own gas in Oregon? Probably for the same reason.

Perhaps the state will confiscate our scan tools along with our guns.

Nice Facists states one has down there .. ouch !

The easy way for the stores to skirt the issue is to rent you the scanner, then refund the rental charge upon return....or maybe just charge you one dollar, "just to make it legal"....

Originally Posted by edjack

Why is it illegal to pump your own gas in Oregon? Probably for the same reason.

Perhaps the state will confiscate our scan tools along with our guns.

I'll give you my scan tool when you take it from my cold dead hands.

Originally Posted by edjack

Why is it illegal to pump your own gas in Oregon?

< rant >
Self-serve is a misnomer in Oregon ...

There are three (apparently) gas-pump-law models:

New Jersey: By law, you must STAY IN the vehicle at all times when getting gas (aka full service);
Oregon: You can't pump; but you often have to get out to PAY (i.e., half service);
California: You almost always have to get out, often twice, to pump & pay (i.e., no service).

By nature, "grocery shopping" (defined as muddy coffee, stale donuts, caffeinated soda, 3-day old ham sandwiches, overpriced orange juice, cigarettes, smoothies, chips, newspapers, etc.) is illegal in New Jersey gas stations, while all other states (AFAIK) force you to line up behind the trucker, the homeless, and the three families ahead of you buying such "groceries" at a so-called 'gas station'. Sometimes, you have to do this TWICE, e.g., when paying by cash up front and then collecting the unused portion. They don't care at all about charging you high prices AND wasting your time!

Only in New Jersey, AFAIK, is "full serve" truly the law; Oregon is, shall we say, only "half serve", while (AFAIK) the rest of the states are "no serve".

Interestingly, the gasoline prices in NJ are among the lowest in the nation, and they don't have any more refineries close to them than any other industrialized states (witness NY & PA harbors right next door, for example). And, their weather, while absolutely dismal compared to the sun-tax state, is not any more horrid than, say, Minnesota or Illinois ...

Which all goes to prove, that prices have (almost) nothing to do with the fact that it's full serve, half serve, or no serve ... but that the prices have all to do with taxes (for 49 states), and taxes plus special gas for the 50th state.

I've read (need to find a reference), that the "reason" for the law is that only NJ politicians have realized that "self serve" is actually "no service" whatsoever, and that the price has NOTHING to do with the attendant - it has all to do with taxes (and in California, special gas).

I suspect most states are like California (except for the special gas) ... but folks who live in other states should let us know if my summary above is correct or different (by law) for YOUR state!

< / rant >
PS: I probably should start a separate thread to see if there are any other states with the full-service or half-service model; or maybe all other states are the no-service model ???

Originally Posted by Fast Bob

The easy way for the stores to skirt the issue is to rent you the scanner, then refund the rental charge upon return....

When I had asked AutoZone and Kragen, they never mentioned that.

Maybe other Californians can pipe in with a way to skirt the issue in the fascist state (for the benefit of the newbies, and me)...

There is a large variety of scan tools on the market. The first time you fix the car as a result of using your own tool will pay for it in savings.

So buy one.

If Oregon opened up its gas stations to self-service, that would probably put another 10% of the population out of work....

I go to Oregon pretty often and I never get used to having someone else pump my gas. It is especially interesting to note that most of the "attendants" are young, and no matter how cold it is or raining, they are always sitting outside in it while the money taker is inside. A few times I've forgotten and simply jumped out and started pumping my own. Not a good idea as it turned out.

In Illinois you can still get a free OBD2 scan from part stores but they cannot erase the codes officially. Most of these guys will erase the codes if you ask them nicely and ask them "what codes"?

They do it free in Massachusetts. Yes, I know, you all pay for it.

Originally Posted by bluebee

< rant >
Self-serve is a misnomer in Oregon ...

There are three (apparently) gas-pump-law models:

New Jersey: By law, you must STAY IN the vehicle at all times when getting gas (aka full service);
Oregon: You can't pump; but you often have to get out to PAY (i.e., half service);
California: You almost always have to get out, often twice, to pump & pay (i.e., no service).

By nature, "grocery shopping" (defined as muddy coffee, stale donuts, caffeinated soda, 3-day old ham sandwiches, overpriced orange juice, cigarettes, smoothies, chips, newspapers, etc.) is illegal in New Jersey gas stations, while all other states (AFAIK) force you to line up behind the trucker, the homeless, and the three families ahead of you buying such "groceries" at a so-called 'gas station'. Sometimes, you have to do this TWICE, e.g., when paying by cash up front and then collecting the unused portion. They don't care at all about charging you high prices AND wasting your time!

Only in New Jersey, AFAIK, is "full serve" truly the law; Oregon is, shall we say, only "half serve", while (AFAIK) the rest of the states are "no serve".

Interestingly, the gasoline prices in NJ are among the lowest in the nation, and they don't have any more refineries close to them than any other industrialized states (witness NY & PA harbors right next door, for example). And, their weather, while absolutely dismal compared to the sun-tax state, is not any more horrid than, say, Minnesota or Illinois ...

Which all goes to prove, that prices have (almost) nothing to do with the fact that it's full serve, half serve, or no serve ... but that the prices have all to do with taxes (for 49 states), and taxes plus special gas for the 50th state.

I've read (need to find a reference), that the "reason" for the law is that only NJ politicians have realized that "self serve" is actually "no service" whatsoever, and that the price has NOTHING to do with the attendant - it has all to do with taxes (and in California, special gas).

I suspect most states are like California (except for the special gas) ... but folks who live in other states should let us know if my summary above is correct or different (by law) for YOUR state!

< / rant >
PS: I probably should start a separate thread to see if there are any other states with the full-service or half-service model; or maybe all other states are the no-service model ???

So you're saying that there are people who actually buy groceries at those places? And there are people who go inside to pay CASH? Man, you learn something new every day.

Originally Posted by edjack

Why is it illegal to pump your own gas in Oregon? Probably for the same reason.

Perhaps the state will confiscate our scan tools along with our guns.

Hi edjack and bluebee!

What I was told a few years ago was that Oregon passed a law to make self pumping illegal in Oregon. The reason was to insure that teenagers and the lowest income people could get an entry level job. Pumping gas. They would be employable, and employed. I won't get into a political discussion here...

Being from Washington State, we don't have such a law. It was really weird to NOT be able to pump my own gas, but I was told quickly that I couldn't....

Originally Posted by edjack

So buy one.

Hi Edjack,
That isn't the point.

There are freeware OBDII scan tools, and, as you said, it's a basic tool in the toolbox.

But that isn't the point of this thead (that would be the point of the threads asking "Which OBD DTC scan tool should I buy (cn90) (fudman) (QSilver7) etc. ?".

As you well know, very often some newbie asks how to get a scan and the answer invariably is either buy the tool or get a free scan at (insert auto-parts store name here).

Well, that doesn't work in our state, nor in Hawaii (and perhaps in others).

So, the point of this thread is to figure out which states outlaw the "free" use of the scan tools by the auto parts stores.

If nobody says otherwise, it looks like the only two rogue states are the left-most states, California & Hawaii.

So Bluebee, your jacked your own thread. First, it was about the use of OBD2 in different states. Ca, Hawaii, and I would have said Washington State as well. I was told legally they couldn't use the tool, but they could put in my hand and I could use it.

Then you started a rant about gas pumping in Oregon... Bluebee, didn't you just have this rant last week?

I mean no disrespect.

M

Originally Posted by Spokane540ia

I would have said Washington State as well. I was told legally they couldn't use the tool, but they could put in my hand and I could use it.

Can someone clarify the Washing state law? It would be interesting to see the details.

Then you started a rant about gas pumping in Oregon... Bluebee, didn't you just have this rant last week?

Hmmmmm.... I looked for that prior rant and you're probably thinking of this:
- Another SERVICE ENGINE SOON (post 19)
Or this:
- Are all E39s 18 gallons of fuel?(post 23)

In that first reference, scott0357 asked about reading codes with the Peake for his SES problem, to which 540_M-sport (in post 10) errantly suggests doublechecking at an auto parts store; also Hooray in a later post (post 16), also errantly suggests checking at an auto parts store ... which, of course, since scott0357 lives in California, is impossible so when scott replied (in post 17) it can't be done, I concurred in post 19.

In the second reference, I asked about the fluid volume of the E39 gas tank, and Chivas posted a picture in post #3 of his $1.999 gas price; later (in post #22), geirostudio noted his gas is much more expensive; to which I posted in #23 current San Jose gas prices; where in post #25 anothergeezer said he moved out of CA and hated the gas prices; and then in post #27 I have a one-sentence rant about how Californians always extoll their "free ways" but they idiotically pay a dollar or more for gas.

Originally Posted by bluebee

Interestingly, the gasoline prices in NJ are among the lowest in the nation, and they don't have any more refineries close to them than any other industrialized states (witness NY & PA harbors right next door, for example). And, their weather, while absolutely dismal compared to the sun-tax state, is not any more horrid than, say, Minnesota or Illinois ...

Which all goes to prove, that prices have (almost) nothing to do with the fact that it's full serve, half serve, or no serve ... but that the prices have all to do with taxes (for 49 states), and taxes plus special gas for the 50th state.

I've read (need to find a reference), that the "reason" for the law is that only NJ politicians have realized that "self serve" is actually "no service" whatsoever, and that the price has NOTHING to do with the attendant - it has all to do with taxes (and in California, special gas).

Part of the reason for the cheaper prices in NJ is due to lower insurance premiums by not having random customers handling the pumps. That is in turn passed on to the consumers and believe me in the winter time...this state rocks on that tip...the property tax is another issue.

It was my impression that nothing gets past Bluebee.

Now I'm pretty sure of it.

Bluebee--I suggest the GT1 scanner--nothing else will do--ya gots to have that one

Poolman..

Who would you consider a reputable seller? I see a lot of these offered online but some look like counterfeit knockoffs.

Originally Posted by Spokane540ia

Hi edjack and bluebee!

What I was told a few years ago was that Oregon passed a law to make self pumping illegal in Oregon. The reason was to insure that teenagers and the lowest income people could get an entry level job. Pumping gas. They would be employable, and employed. I won't get into a political discussion here...

Being from Washington State, we don't have such a law. It was really weird to NOT be able to pump my own gas, but I was told quickly that I couldn't....

A quick review of The Peoples Republic of Oregon website reveals that the gasoline laws are due to environmental concerns. It prevents topping off, misuse of the nozzles (i.e. pushing the safety forward to fill a spare tank), etc etc. Some ridiculous metric in air quality is maintained by having some no-doubt highly trained guy that was in Bumfights a few years back pump your gas...

Originally Posted by oekundar

Part of the reason for the cheaper prices in NJ is due to lower insurance premiums ...the property tax is another issue.

Gasoline taxes are about 75¢ a gallon (at least in California they are), which, outweighs the hourly cost of an extra attendant, don't you think?

And, to your point, I'd be absolutely shocked if NJ gas-station insurance is much lower than most states, as NJ has the absolute highest automobile insurance prices in the nation by far (I'm not sure if it's the Mafia or what that makes NJ automobile insurance the highest in the nation 18 out of the past 20 years).

But, of course, gas-station insurance isn't car insurance. Even so, if you take the total insurance paid in a year divided by the number of gallons sold in that year, I'll bet the insurance price per gallon pales in comparison to the amount of TAX on a single gallon of gas.

Taxes are always the single largest component of gas prices (see this reference), once the fuel is bought from the refinery.

Interestingly, to throw a bit of FUD on our analysis, NJ is only midway on this gas-tax scale, but it's almost at the bottom of this tax chart, so, maybe something changed recently in taxes.

Bear in mind, the hypothesis is that self-serve gets you no benefit whatsoever in prices, and we're using NJ as our low-end example (with the only full service in the nation) which is still almost the cheapest gas in the nation. (Duly noted is that the overall tax burden in NJ is even higher than almost any other state, as you intimated with property taxes.)

On the high end, California is rife with "self service" (i.e., no service whatsoever), where for example, taxes gasoline roughly about 75 cents a gallon (18.4¢/gallon federal, 45.5¢/gallon state, 9.25% sales tax + apparently a few other percentage-based local and county taxes).

< / another rant on the naive stupidity of the average native Californian >

< OL >
< RANT 1 > Average native Californian "thinks" they have freeways; yet they pay more more taxes per mile driven than almost any other state!
< RANT 2 > California lawmakers say it's illegal to get your DTC scanned for free
< RANT 3 > Average American "thinks" self-serve saves them money; but all it does is drastically reduce their service and has absolutely no realistic bearing on the gasoline prices.
< RANT 4> California lawmakers make it illegal to put a GPS in the middle of your windshield, where everyone else puts it.

< / RANTS for today >

Originally Posted by bluebee

And, to your point, I'd be absolutely shocked if NJ gas-station insurance is much lower than most states, as NJ has the absolute highest automobile insurance prices in the nation by far (I'm not sure if it's the Mafia or what that makes NJ automobile insurance the highest in the nation 18 out of the past 20 years).

regarding the original topic...

I'd bet that it just has something to do with the fact that they don't want to make it too easy for you to go somewhere and clear your codes. They want to make sure that if the light comes on you are going to fix it. They probably assume that the people looking for a "free" code check are probably the ones likely to want to just clear the codes when they pop up vs. fixing the car.


now off topic a bit...

Interesting observation re: insurance rates, but the way commercial and personal insurance rates are calculated is quite different.

Your graphic is only telling part of the story on auto insurance rates. One big factor that drives auto insurance rates, beyond your driving record and vehicle type, is your location and how likely you are to have an incident just by the fact that you are living there. States with higher population density tend to have more accidents because they have more people crammed into a tighter area, more cars on the road, and likely more congestion. If you cross-reference your chart with the list of states with highest population density, you'll see a strong relationship:

1. New Jersey
2. Rhode Island
3. Massachusetts
4. Connecticut
5. Maryland
6. Delaware
7. New York
8. Florida

So it's not really corruption... it's basic risk management. You need to charge higher premiums in densely populated areas because there is a higher frequency of accidents. This doesn't automatically mean that commercial property or general liability are going to be higher in these states... but commercial auto will probably have a similar ranking.