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Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 5 Series > E39 (1997 - 2003)

E39 (1997 - 2003)
The BMW 5-Series (E39 chassis) was introduced in the United States as a 1997 model year car and lasted until the 2004 when the E60 chassis was released. The United States saw several variations including the 525i, 528i, 530i and 540i. -- View the E39 Wiki

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  #76  
Old 07-28-2010, 12:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mmm635 View Post
Yes, if you stick a dowel or cotter pin in there it will lock it into place. Then you just release it after you have your belt back on and then it will re-tension.
Ah. Good idea. I'll put that in the "idealized steps" but I didn't do it.

Next time though, I insert a spare allen wrench into the aligned holes of the mechanical tensioners so that it will be safer to remove the belts w/o getting the fingers caught inside - and so that it will be easier to put the new belts on.

Thanks for the idea. I see that your new mechanical tensioners came with an L-shaped "pin" in your picassaweb picture set here (and reproduced below).

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  #77  
Old 07-28-2010, 07:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluebee View Post
Ah. Good idea. I'll put that in the "idealized steps" but I didn't do it.

Next time though, I insert a spare allen wrench into the aligned holes of the mechanical tensioners so that it will be safer to remove the belts w/o getting the fingers caught inside - and so that it will be easier to put the new belts on.

Thanks for the idea. I see that your new mechanical tensioners came with an L-shaped "pin" in your picassaweb picture set here (and reproduced below).
Did you notice the clamp i used on the replacement PS hose in my pic - same as the ones I was referencing.

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  #78  
Old 07-28-2010, 07:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluebee View Post
How do we remove the pulley from the alternator?

I called around and some parts places sell the alternator sans the pulley.
Most (if not all) have an appreciable core charge, so, I have to remove the pulley from the old alternator and put it on the new alternator.

The Bentleys (which have been wrong a lot lately) say I need:
- alternator pulley nut removal tool BMW 12.7.110

May I ask:
Do I need that tool (I don't have it); or can I remove the alternator pulley using normal tools?

All I used was my impact wrench and it was off in about 2 seconds - it does not require any special tool whatsoever. If you already have it off, just take it to a gas station if you don't have an impact gun and they will probably do it for free.

Also, the tool you have referenced is designed to remove the rear bearings for many BMW's. For a rear axle job, the BT-190 tool is basically worthless - I can qualify that statement since I have the exact set pictured above which was acquired long ago. I did not need it for my rear axle job - in fact, it would have made the job longer. I am not sure how you wound up with that referenced.
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  #79  
Old 07-28-2010, 08:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mmm635 View Post
Did you notice the clamp i used on the replacement PS hose in my pic - same as the ones I was referencing.
Hi Michel,
I had not noticed, but, I see what you mean now.

My power steering is leaking from the bottom of the reservoir; yours seemed to have leaked from the outlet of the power steering pump. I'll check that spot later today. (I wonder if Dexron VI leaking all day onto an alternator shortens its life.)

Anyway, the suggestion to use solid clamps is a good one; the problem will be obtaining them. I'll check later on today when the parts stores open.

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  #80  
Old 07-28-2010, 08:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mmm635 View Post
All I used was my impact wrench and it was off in about 2 seconds ... I am not sure how you wound up with that referenced.
Thanks Michel,
I do have a hand impact wrench so, if the alternator I buy needs me to switch pulleys, I will do that. I do have small pulley removal tools (the basic toolbox stuff) which also might work.

The reference to that particular kit came up merely by me googling for the part number "BMW 12 7 110". I'll try again right now ... I see Samstag has the special tool 127 110; oh ... it's not a pulley removal tool at all ... it's just a thin socket ... BMW P/N 90 88 6 127 110 (my mistake ... sorry ... I was tired after a dozen hours working on the E39 and still being frustrated).

I guess the important thing is that I have a 24mm socket wrench.

BTW, they sell 18mm solid clamps at that Samstag sales site; I wonder what the diameter of the power-steering hose is (it's about an inch which would be 25mm). It sure would be nice to have a source for those clamps in quantities of a handful.


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Last edited by bluebee; 07-28-2010 at 10:16 AM.
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  #81  
Old 07-28-2010, 08:27 AM
five.two.five five.two.five is offline
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Bluebee: Your posts are extremely informative and helpful.
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  #82  
Old 07-28-2010, 09:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluebee View Post
Hi Michel,
I had not noticed, but, I see what you mean now.

My power steering is leaking from the bottom of the reservoir; yours seemed to have leaked from the outlet of the power steering pump. I'll check that spot later today. (I wonder if Dexron VI leaking all day onto an alternator shortens its life.)

Anyway, the suggestion to use solid clamps is a good one; the problem will be obtaining them. I'll check later on today when the parts stores open.

I think you might need to go ahead and replace the hose itself if there does happen to be a current leak. Yours has already been tampered with because the factory clamp has been replaced. Problem is, that only masks another problem that will not go away - the hose is actually aging and the fluid is leaking out via osmosis and a new clamp is not going to help. If you decide not to replace the hose at this time, then you can just snip off about 3/4"-1" of tubing and reattach.

All that said...I would just clean the area around the hose and monitor it for a couple of weeks. You may not need to do anything because it might be residual fluid prior to being fixed by the PO.
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  #83  
Old 07-28-2010, 10:12 AM
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I hate to have the whole thing disemboweled without replacing more parts!

However, I just tried to remove the mechanical tensioners (see cross link here).

There MUST be a trick to getting access to that second 13mm bolt on each mechanical tensioner.

Can someone confirm what the "trick" is to getting the second 13mm bolt off each mechanical tensioner when the fan shroud is still in place?

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  #84  
Old 07-28-2010, 10:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mmm635 View Post
Yours has already been tampered with because the factory clamp has been replaced
Actually, ummmm... er.... that's YOUR power steering pump, not mine. At least I think it's yours. I got the picture from here.

By way of contrast, here's a picture I just took of mine.

Notice the factory clamp; but also notice all the dripping red stuff (mainly from my removal and bad hanging of the power steering fluid reservoir which I just realized I should have loosely placed back on the bracket once I removed the Bosch 120 alternator).

It's still unknown to me where we're supposed to get these clamps (and perhaps the crimping tool)???

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  #85  
Old 07-28-2010, 10:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluebee View Post
Actually, ummmm... er.... that's YOUR power steering pump, not mine. At least I think it's yours. I got the picture from here.

By way of contrast, here's a picture I just took of mine.

Notice the factory clamp; but also notice all the dripping red stuff (mainly from my removal and bad hanging of the power steering fluid reservoir which I just realized I should have loosely placed back on the bracket once I removed the Bosch 120 alternator).

It's still unknown to me where we're supposed to get these clamps (and perhaps the crimping tool)???

Funny, doh...I did not realize it was a blown up version of my pic. The link I supplied in an earlier post was from AutohausAZ. This is where I ordered all of my clamps from. I ended up ordering almost every size they offer in quantities of 10.

I would not even worry about using the same clamp as the OEM.
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  #86  
Old 07-28-2010, 11:26 AM
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I replaced the lower clamp for this hose (PSSH) last summer and it leaked again with a vengeance. Notice that this type of hose is harder (less elastic) and the current hose has been cooked or heat-treated and became even more brittle so a new clamp will not prevent the leak for long.

I just replaced mine with a "Dayco 80405" 5/8 inch Internal Diameter L-shape coolant hose. I trimmed the 2 ends of the new hose to match the length of the original, transferred the wired mesh over, and all is good. You can get this hose at your local auto parts store(s) for $11-$15:

http://frugalmechanic.com/auto-part/...bq=dayco+80405

Here's an image of the replaced power steering suction hose in my car:
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/att...6&d=1279575693

About the clamps, they don't have to be hi-endurance. they just need to seal the hose to prevent leak for 10 years or so. I bought a box of 30-50 assorted clamps and Harbor Freight for $10. If you detect the leak during your regular maintenance inspection, you can deal with a failed clamp many years before it has a chance to drain most of your power steering fluid and cause any safety hazard.

harris

Last edited by harris2p; 07-28-2010 at 11:30 AM.
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  #87  
Old 07-28-2010, 11:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluebee
There MUST be a trick to getting access to that second 13mm bolt on each mechanical tensioner.
Turns out, the "trick" was, explained to me in another thread, one must stick a spare dowel or allen wrench into the stress-relief tabs on the mechanical tensioners. Only then is the harder-of-the-two 13mm bolts accessible to remove the mechanical tensioners.

Tackling the lower mechanical tensioner first, from underside the car, here's the DIY:

To remove lower mechanical air conditioning belt tensioner:
- Tools: 13mm and 16mm socket, 3-inch socket extension
- Spare allen wrench of just under about 5mm diameter (mine was unmarked so I'm guessing the size)
- From underneath, turn the 16mm molded nut clockwise till the tabs line up
- Slip the spare 5mm allen wrench into the two tabs to lock them in place
- With a 13mm box wrench on a 3-inch extension, remove both bolts
- Remove lower mechanical air conditioning tensioner
- Leave the spare allen wrench in place (how do you safely remove it?)
- Mark the tensioner as the AC tensioner (they are slightly different)
Note: AC mechanical tensioners were redesigned in 8/2002 so compare with new
Note: OEM is INA
Note: How do we safely remove the spare allen wrench in the old tensioner?

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Last edited by bluebee; 07-29-2010 at 02:00 AM.
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  #88  
Old 07-29-2010, 01:08 AM
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So that I could write a pictorial DIY, I removed the upper mechanical tensioner.

Wouldn't you know it, only after I managed to put an allen wrench alignment pin into the upper tensioner did I realize that there was then no room for my 13mm wrench.

So, the procedure for the upper mechanical tensioner is different than for the lower in that you do NOT align the two hold-fast holes to remove the upper tensioner (go figure).

Otherwise, the steps are the same (all illustrated below). BTW, while I was putting clockwise pressure on the upper tensioner, my arm broke something in the headlight (see photo below). Also I heard a tiny crack in the vicinity of the upper radiator hose.

Lesson to all: Be VERY careful with your elbows around the plastic in the front of the engine bay while muscling the mechanical tensioners off!

To remove upper mechanical alternator/ps/wp belt tensioner:
- Tools: 13mm & 16mm socket, 3-inch socket extension
- Unlike the lower tensioner, you need to REMOVE the hold-fast pin
- Turn clockwise on the 16mm molding to release tension on the hold-fast pin
- Remove your hold-fast pin placed during the belt-removal process
- With a 13mm box wrench, remove the lower & upper 13mm tensioner bolts
- Remove the upper mechanical air conditioning tensioner from the engine
- Mark the tensioner as the alt/ps/wp tensioner (they are slightly different)

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  #89  
Old 07-29-2010, 01:10 AM
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Originally Posted by bluebee View Post
BTW, while I was putting clockwise pressure on the upper tensioner, my arm broke something in the headlight (see photo below). Also I heard a tiny crack in the vicinity of the upper radiator hose.
I think this is for the angel eye. I see I broke some plastic around the edges. It now doesn't want to stay in when I try to clip it back.

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  #90  
Old 07-29-2010, 01:24 AM
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I'm afraid to release the tension on the lower AC belt mechanical tensioner for fear of hurting myself so I want to ask you guys first before attempting anything styupid.

How do you release the tension on the mechanical tensioner once it's off the car?

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  #91  
Old 07-29-2010, 05:09 AM
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Originally Posted by bluebee View Post
I think this is for the angel eye. I see I broke some plastic around the edges. It now doesn't want to stay in when I try to clip it back.

If you need a replacement, PM me. I have my old ones laying around as I replaced them with the LED type.
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  #92  
Old 07-29-2010, 11:06 AM
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BlueBee-

Did you remove the fan shroud and fan before trying to remove the tensioners and belt?
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  #93  
Old 07-29-2010, 11:28 AM
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I replaced them with the LED type.
I didn't realize this bulb tray was a separate part from the headlight. I'll worry about that halo light later. Thanks for your offer.

Right now, I'm waiting for parts and as I do searches of what else to do, I am utterly overwhelmed with data (having already been inundated by doing things I've never done before, like disembowel my drive belt system).

As I went to water some plants, may I wonder out loud the following (probably styupid) questions of things to do while I'm waiting:

Q1: How do you safely remove the pin from a tensioner off the car?

Q2: How do I know if I need the oil filter housing (OFH) gasket?

Q3: Where is my crankcase ventilation valve (CCV) & can I clean it now?

Q4: Where is my idle control valve (ICV) & can I clean it now?

Q5: How can I test if the power steering pump (PSP) is causing my squeal?

Q6: Other than cooling overhaul (I don't know what parts to get yet), what else should I clean/fix/replace while the guts are disemboweled?

Q6: Are these questions too dumb to be asking (I'm in overload)?


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  #94  
Old 07-29-2010, 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Jason5driver View Post
Did you remove the fan shroud and fan before trying to remove the tensioners and belt?
I removed the fan but not the fan shroud.

My problem with the cooling system is I don't know what parts to get. If I did know that, I would have ordered them along with the belt-drive parts. (I opened a thread to rectify that for me, and for others in a similar situation).

Since it took me more than a dozen hours to get this far (of course, I'm writing and snapping pictures and confused all the time - and watering my plants whenever the frustration level overwhelms me) ... I wonder what ELSE I should do while I can.

I see the DIYs on the ICV (cn90) and CCV (Fudman) but I'm very confused WHERE they are in my car as things are different (Cn90's E39 is an older model and Fudman's is a different engine).

My main confusion now lays with the following (probably dumb) questions:

Q1: How do you safely remove the pin from a tensioner off the car?

Q2: How do I know if I need the oil filter housing (OFH) gasket?

Q3: Where is my crankcase ventilation valve (CCV) & can I clean it now?

Q4: Where is my idle control valve (ICV) & can I clean it now?

Q5: How can I test if the power steering pump (PSP) is causing my squeal?

Q6: What ELSE should I be doing while I'm waiting for parts to arrive?

Last edited by bluebee; 07-29-2010 at 01:52 PM.
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  #95  
Old 07-29-2010, 11:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluebee View Post
I removed the fan but not the fan shroud.

My problem with the cooling system is I don't know what parts to get. If I did know that, I would have ordered them along with the belt-drive parts. (I opened a thread to rectify that for me, and for others in a similar situation).

Since it took me more than a dozen hours to get this far (of course, I'm writing and snapping pictures and confused all the time - and watering my plants whenever the frustration level overwhelms me) ... I wonder what ELSE I should do while I can.

I see the DIYs on the ICV (cn90) and CCV (Fudman) but I'm very confused WHERE they are in my car as things are different.

My main confusion now lays with the following (probably dumb) questions:

Q1: How do you safely remove the pin from a tensioner off the car?
I would use a set of pliers, and slowly remove the pin.

Q2: How do I know if I need the oil filter housing (OFH) gasket?
Is you oil filter housing leaking?
If not, leave it alone!


Q3: Where is my crankcase ventilation valve (CCV) & can I clean it now?

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1376457

It's up to you, if you want to tackle the CCV now.
Judging from your limited DIY experience, I would focus on ONE goal, then later do another.

Q4: Where is my idle control valve (ICV) & can I clean it now?
See above.

Q5: How can I test if the power steering pump (PSP) is causing my squeal?
Replace the tensioners first.


Q6: What ELSE should I be doing while I'm waiting for parts to arrive?
Drinking a beer!

See above in RED.

If you plan on replacing all of the cooling parts, then use Cn90's write-up, verify the part numbers on www.RealOEM.com for your year and make of E39.
Don't complicate things.
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Last edited by Jason5driver; 07-29-2010 at 11:44 AM.
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  #96  
Old 07-29-2010, 02:08 PM
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bluebee bluebee is offline
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Location: San Jose, California
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 22,028
Mein Auto: 02 BMW 525i M54 auto 130K
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason5driver View Post
See above in RED.
Thanks Jasaon. These questions may be many, but, it's worth helping me because I summarize, photograph, detail, analyze, annotate, cross reference, etc. for all of us in return.

I knew about the Fudman CCV (wrong engine) and the cn90 massive ICV/VANOS/OIL/ALTERNATOR DIY (wrong year and engine); but I was unaware of your Bimmerforums M54 CCV replacement DIY. I'll check it out (presumably it covers also the ICV).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason5driver View Post
If you plan on replacing all of the cooling parts, then use Cn90's write-up
Cam's detailed cooling-system-overhaul is for 1997-1998; airos' less detailed single post is for the right year (1999-2003). Pelican's decent writeup is for the 3-series; and the Beisan writeup is the closest but only covers the fan shroud and fan removal. AFAIK, there is no detailed step-by-step (which is what I need) for the 2002 525i cooling system overhaul.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason5driver View Post
Don't complicate things ... drink a beer


Actually, when I was frustrated with the fan clutch nut and tensioners, I watered my plants. This morning, I stood forlorn, staring at my wounded disabled engine silently sipping a fragrant Pinot Noir as I soulfully waited for salvation parts to arrive by truck.

Meanwhile, I'm doing research on the OFH leak, the CCV cleaning, the ICV cleaning, and the detailed parts list for the following:
- cooling system overhaul recommend tools & parts list
- drive belt system overhaul recommended tools & parts list
- VANOS overhaul recommended parts list
- CCV overhaul parts list
- ICV overhaul parts list
- PSP overhaul parts list
- OFH overhaul parts list
etc.


Last edited by bluebee; 08-05-2010 at 11:09 AM.
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  #97  
Old 07-29-2010, 04:12 PM
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Jason5driver Jason5driver is offline
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Location: Middle of a corn field
 
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Posts: 4,474
Mein Auto: E39 hamster w/ pin-wheel
I would follow CNN's write-up.
Even though his engine is an M52, it will be very similar to the M54.

I am betting that almost all the cooling parts in Cnn's write-up will be applicable to the M54.
Cross check with Real OEM.
Also contact Mark at EAC Tuning, and see if he can give a list of needed items, and where to begin.
I would stick with OEM parts.
I believe Behr is the OEM radiatior.
Also, I would get the Graf water pump, because it has the metal impeller.

Again, verify all of this with Mark from EAC Tuning.

Thanks!
Jason
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Last edited by Jason5driver; 07-29-2010 at 04:14 PM.
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  #98  
Old 07-29-2010, 05:02 PM
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mmm635 mmm635 is offline
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Location: Jackson, MS
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,179
Mein Auto: '02 525i Sp/5, 95 FJ80 LC
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluebee View Post
Cam's detailed cooling-system-overhaul is for 1997-1998; airos' less detailed single post is for the right year (1999-2003).
http://picasaweb.google.com/mmm635/CoolantSystemPics#

I have more pics if you need them (I removed more stuff than necessary since I was replacing my alternator at the time). Also, if you follow Cam's procedure with my pics, then you should be fine.
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Last edited by mmm635; 07-29-2010 at 05:04 PM.
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Old 07-29-2010, 06:12 PM
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bluebee bluebee is offline
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Location: San Jose, California
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 22,028
Mein Auto: 02 BMW 525i M54 auto 130K
BTW, would you guys put anti-seize on the tensioner and alternator bolts?
And, the Bentleys don't show the torque for the two 16mm long bolts of the alternator.

Other than that, here's the replacement procedure I followed for the tensioners & alternator so far:
Reassembly:
a. Replace lower mechanical tensioner (two 13mm bolts) with spring compressed
Put the upper bolt in first as it's harder than the lower bolt.
I used a 13mm socket on a 3-inch exenstion and hand twirled the bolt
Torque as per Bentley page 121-16 & 020-19 is 16 ft lbs for the M54 engine.
b. Replace upper mechanical tensioner (two 13mm bolts) with spring extended
Thinly coat the bolts with anti-seize paste.
Put the upper bolt in first as it's harder than the lower bolt.
I used a 13mm socket on a 3-inch exenstion and hand twirled the bolt
Torque as per Bentley page 121-16 & 020-19 is 16 ft lbs for the M54 engine.
But there really isn't much room for my long click-type torque wrench.
c. Replace two alternator 16-mm bolts; the upper bolt also holds idler pulley
Thinly coat the bolts with anti-seize paste.
I tried to torque as per Bentley but there is no mention of the torque.
So I looked here for torque figures from cn90 which showed on page 30 the
idler bolt is 90Nm, which from this chart is a whopping 97 foot pounds!
On page 57 of cn90's torque book the torque on the rear holder bolt is
shown as a measly 3.5 Nm, neither number do I believe.

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Last edited by bluebee; 07-29-2010 at 07:57 PM.
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  #100  
Old 07-29-2010, 11:49 PM
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bluebee bluebee is offline
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Location: San Jose, California
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 22,028
Mein Auto: 02 BMW 525i M54 auto 130K
REASSEMBLY:

Q1: Do you put anti-seize on the tensioner and alternator bolts?

Q2: The Bentleys don't show the torque for the two 16mm long bolts of the alternator (do you know what it is)?

Q3: Should I have "pinned" the upper tensioner before putting the alternator back on (I think so)?

Q4: Unfortunately, my fan clutch nut keeps going on crooked; is there a trick to keep it going on straight?

Comment: The belts & fan clutch would have been a LOT easier had I removed the fan shroud and the upper radiator hose!

Here's the replacement procedure I followed so far:
a. Replace lower mechanical tensioner (two 13mm bolts) with spring compressed
Put the upper bolt in first as it's harder than the lower bolt.
I used a 13mm socket on a 3-inch exenstion and hand twirled the bolt
Torque as per Bentley page 121-16 & 020-19 is 16 ft lbs for the M54 engine.

b. Replace upper mechanical tensioner (two 13mm bolts) with spring extended
Thinly coat the bolts with anti-seize paste.
Put the upper bolt in first as it's harder than the lower bolt.
I used a 13mm socket on a 3-inch exenstion and hand twirled the bolt
Torque as per Bentley page 121-16 & 020-19 is 16 ft lbs for the M54 engine.
But there really isn't much room for my long click-type torque wrench.

c. THIS IS A STEP I MISSED AND IT COST ME DEARLY!
I should have used the 16mm wrench to place the ~5mm allen wrench
holding tension on the upper tensioner! This cost me dearly as I tried
to do so AFTER putting in the entire alternator; and failed!

d. Replace two alternator 16-mm bolts; the upper bolt also holds idler pulley
Thinly coat the bolts with anti-seize paste.
I tried to torque as per Bentley but there is no mention of the torque.
So I looked here for torque figures from cn90 which showed on page 30 the
idler bolt is 90Nm, which from this chart is a whopping 97 foot pounds!
On page 57 of cn90's torque book the torque on the rear holder bolt is
shown as a measly 3.5 Nm, neither number do I believe.
http://www.thetoolhut.com/Torque-Con...sh-Metric.html
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...78&postcount=2

e. Reconnect the B+ power cable by the 17mm nut at the back of the alternator.
Bentley page 121-17 says to use 10 foot pounds of torque.

f. Reconnect the rectangular field connector by pushing it into the
back of alternator.

g. Find your diagram of the alternator->ps->cs->wp drive belt and wind
it back starting from the reverse twist on the upper tensioner
looping back over the water pump to the underside of the idler roller.
Since I accidentally skipped step (c) above, I had to laborously
wrestle using the 16mm socket wrench to move the tensioner so that
I could finally slip the belt around all the pulleys and rollers.

h. After the hour or so on step g (due to the missing step c), it was
anticlimactic to put the AC compressor belt on. It just slipped on
easily and then I used the 16mm socket wrench to turn clockwise on
the lower tensioner so that I could pull out the 11/64ths inch pin.

i. Place a dab of anti-seize on the fan hub bolt and then spin the
32mm fan clutch nut COUNTER-CLOCKWISE back on the fan hub bolt.
Page 170-15 of the Bentleys lists the torque as 89 INCH pounds.
Taking the fan off was nothing compared to trying to get it on
straight. The fan is heavy, you have no purchase on the blades
with your fingers, the shroud is always in the way, and the nut
goes on crooked every time, whether you hold it up from the top or
if you push it up from the bottom.

I'll tackle the nut in the morning when there's daylight and I'm not so
frustrated.

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Last edited by bluebee; 07-30-2010 at 12:02 AM.
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