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Do you own a diesel powered BMW? Maybe a 335d or a BMW x35d? Come and talk about what makes your car great!

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  #1  
Old 10-16-2014, 08:41 PM
Bodacious Bodacious is offline
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Modifying the 3.0 all aluminum diesel

Hello all. I am new to this forum, but, not new to diesel performance. I would, however, consider myself a novice when it comes to the all aluminum BMW engine.

My son and I built a little truck named Bodacious. Please check out the link.

http://www.competitiondiesel.com/for...d.php?t=156450

Long before we began this project, I knew the weight of the cummins engine would be an issue when it comes to going fast and keeping parts alive.

It is possible to build a complete all aluminum cummins 12valve engine. Rough figures, with purchasing the parts and assembling the engine myself puts the cost above $40,000 and the weight reduction somewhere around 300lbs. The assembled engine in the truck now weighs 1100lbs.

My wife and I finally had the opportunity to test drive an '11 335d. We would have brought it home, but, it had a driveline vibration around 40MPH and the dealer seemed a bit shaky about fixing the vibration. Anyway, feeling the power this engine produced in stock form began turning the gears in my little brain.

I joined this site to get information and opinions on modifying this engine to the extreme.

At this point, I need the engine to operate as a stand alone unit. This either means a custom bmw computer or converting to an '03+dodge cummins computer. This would require retrofitting the bmw engine with all the cummins sensors etc...

I need to know what is out there for these engines performance wise. My intial thoughts were converting the bmw to the cummins equipment, modifying the injector holes to accept the cummins piezo injectors, stacking a cp3, custom exhaust header with compound turbos.

I'm sure a lot of folks will think this is crazy. It is just an idea at this point until I get some rough figures on how much this will cost compared to the engine above. I been looking at salvage 335's and I believe I can pick up at least three totaled cars and still stay within realistic parameters. I know I'll have to at least get two so I'll have another one to throw in after we find the limits of the first one.

Any and all comments, suggestions, opinions, handouts (lol) are welcome.
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  #2  
Old 10-16-2014, 09:06 PM
DaveN007 DaveN007 is offline
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There seems to be a healthy after-market appetite for using our motors in off-road vehicles in other parts of the world.

Seems like a great idea.




By the way, Bodacious, I think you are absolutely nuts. In a good way. :thumb up:
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  #3  
Old 10-16-2014, 09:07 PM
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floydarogers floydarogers is offline
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Well, Europe is where most of the heavy modding of these engines is happening.
Go to the diesel subforum: http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/for...ysprune=&f=154. The best tunes (in the USA, even Europe) using meth, EGR, DPF, SCR delete are running sub-12 ETs: search for the poster TDIWyse. Also go to the E90Post M57 forum (TDIWyse is also there, along with some other crazies): http://www.e90post.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=377

The M57 uses (very expensive) piezo-electric injectors - partly because of the requirement for post-tdc injection for DPF burnoff. Haven't seen anyone running out of fuel in any of the tunes that are being run.

I guess this is IN the diesel subforum; lost...

Last edited by floydarogers; 10-17-2014 at 08:18 AM. Reason: lost
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  #4  
Old 10-17-2014, 11:33 AM
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tim330i tim330i is offline
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Welcome to Bimmerfest! I can't wait to see how this turns out. Your truck build thread is bad ass

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  #5  
Old 10-17-2014, 01:43 PM
Hoooper Hoooper is offline
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I dont have much to offer you, but I can tell you it can be done as a standalone for sure. There are plenty of examples out there, including Mini's Dakar Rally car. Buying a euro unlocked computer and tuning from that one, if possible, should unlock a lot more options than the tough trek you would be in for using the US computer.
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  #6  
Old 10-17-2014, 02:00 PM
luigi524td luigi524td is offline
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  #7  
Old 10-18-2014, 08:03 AM
Nadir Point Nadir Point is offline
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Why not just get an xDrive35d, upgrade the suspension, wheels and tires?

Then you'll have a properly integrated vehicle, about 10,000 fewer headaches, and alot more time to enjoy it.

Probably cost less as well - especially in the long run.
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  #8  
Old 10-23-2014, 06:58 PM
Bodacious Bodacious is offline
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Quote:
Your truck build thread is bad ass
Thanks, its been quite the journey.

Krazy?? Naaawww. Just the norm around here. lol

Hey Hoooper, yea I don't know a lot about the electronic end of the build, but, I'm pretty sure no specialized stand alone tuning is available to suit my needs. This is the reason for switching everything over to the dodge cummins ecm. Now, you mentioning the Euro computer opens up new ideas for me. However, to achieve the 700+HP goal, I think I will need to use the cummins injectors for the fuel flow.

Quote:
Why not just get an xDrive35d
Good point and something we have thought about. In the end, with the driveline upgrades, you would basically have the BMW skin setting on the Ram50 chassis. I'm not ready to build another complete ride. Just wanting to try something a little different.

The BMW engine was designed and built for an automotive platform with weight and performance in mind. The cummins engine was built for an industrial heavy truck platform with performance and reliability in mind.

You can double or even triple the amount HP of the mighty cummins produces and still maintain some reliability. This is my biggest concern with the BMW engine. We'll just have to go just past the limits on the first one and turn it back a notch for the second one.

This is not he only all aluminum offering we've looked at. However, it is the only L6 offering and I just don't like the sound a v-6/v-8 diesel makes.
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  #9  
Old 10-24-2014, 08:17 AM
Hoooper Hoooper is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bodacious View Post
Hey Hoooper, yea I don't know a lot about the electronic end of the build, but, I'm pretty sure no specialized stand alone tuning is available to suit my needs. This is the reason for switching everything over to the dodge cummins ecm. Now, you mentioning the Euro computer opens up new ideas for me. However, to achieve the 700+HP goal, I think I will need to use the cummins injectors for the fuel flow.
yeah I meant stand alone in terms of not needing to switch a bunch of body electronics over just to make it work. Since it has been put to use in a number of different vehicles it seems that you could swap it and make it run off the bmw computer. That would be the way I would be inclined to aim for, but it would depend on your experience with the cummins computer and how adaptable it looks to be to the BMW engine.
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  #10  
Old 11-05-2014, 09:38 PM
Bodacious Bodacious is offline
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Hey Thanks Hoooper. I know some fellas that are right at home with the Cummins computers and such.

Does anyone know anything about the rods in the 3L? Are they CGI, forged, ???

Also, I may need some help with some of the bolt torque numbers if anyone knows of a good pdf or disc with the info.

I'm bidding on a nice '09 totaled piece. Let me know if anyone will need any parts from the wreck. If I win, it will be a 335d. At this point, all I'm going to use is the engine.

Anyone with any ideas on how to adapt the BMW engine to say a Chevrolet bell housing pattern. I'm pretty sure we are going with a lenco style trans behind this one. I can build an adapter plate, but, just wanted to ask in case I was unaware of something else.
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  #11  
Old 11-06-2014, 01:13 PM
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bimmerdiesel bimmerdiesel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bodacious View Post
I'm bidding on a nice '09 totaled piece. Let me know if anyone will need any parts from the wreck. If I win, it will be a 335d. At this point, all I'm going to use is the engine.
Let us know once you win bid. I might be interested in some parts.

gL
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  #12  
Old 11-11-2014, 09:45 AM
Bodacious Bodacious is offline
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Well Crap!!! I missed a 335d in NC today. Some dealer in PA kept upping my bid. I went as far as $5,500 and someone else took them to $6,500 where the car sold. I was really hoping for this one cause it was only 7 hrs from the house. I found more in Texas and California, but, I cant go that far for a car and the shipping on a car is tremendous.

Oh well, just have to wait on another one. Unless someone on here has an engine for sale??????????????
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  #13  
Old 11-13-2014, 07:02 AM
Bodacious Bodacious is offline
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Yesterday, I was searching on the internet for possible leads to an engine. I had no luck so I called a BMW dealer in Pittsburg, PA and asked them what the cost of a new engine would be. He quoted me a price for a reman N57 at $14,000.

I asked the parts tech what the chances are that they would have a used unit laying around. He chuckled and said nice try. lol He told me they always contact 'All Foreign Parts' for their used engine needs.

Well, I contacted them and ended up striking a deal for two '11 model compound turbo engines. I will hopefully be picking them up next week. YEA HAAWWW!!!

A couple questions for those who may know. My internet research revealed that the 2013 N57S is a triple turbo design. On this particular engine, they have connecting sleeves that connect the main cap bolts to the head bolts. I've spent ours looking and cannot find whether or not the '11 model years of the N57 has these sleeves.

Would any of you all know this answer???
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  #14  
Old 11-13-2014, 07:05 AM
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tim330i tim330i is offline
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Have you looked on RealOEM? You should be able to look at the engine parts to figure out if those sleeves are on the MY 2011 or not I would think.

Tim
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  #15  
Old 11-13-2014, 01:15 PM
F32Fleet F32Fleet is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bodacious View Post
Yesterday, I was searching on the internet for possible leads to an engine. I had no luck so I called a BMW dealer in Pittsburg, PA and asked them what the cost of a new engine would be. He quoted me a price for a reman N57 at $14,000.

I asked the parts tech what the chances are that they would have a used unit laying around. He chuckled and said nice try. lol He told me they always contact 'All Foreign Parts' for their used engine needs.

Well, I contacted them and ended up striking a deal for two '11 model compound turbo engines. I will hopefully be picking them up next week. YEA HAAWWW!!!

A couple questions for those who may know. My internet research revealed that the 2013 N57S is a triple turbo design. On this particular engine, they have connecting sleeves that connect the main cap bolts to the head bolts. I've spent ours looking and cannot find whether or not the '11 model years of the N57 has these sleeves.

Would any of you all know this answer???
The N57 was not used in the 335d. The N57 is used in the newer 535d and newer X5 35d.

The M57 was used in the 335d. The N57S was/is only sold in Europe as the X-drive M550d. The third turbo is electric.
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  #16  
Old 11-14-2014, 04:19 AM
Bodacious Bodacious is offline
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BMWTurboDzl, not sure where you got your info, but, it aint worth chit.

Unless of course, the '11 model BMW 335d the wife and I tried out was some sorta factory sleeper car that was worth millions with its N57 'all aluminum' diesel.

Both engines I have coming were also pulled from the 335d.

Thanks tim330i, I'll take a look.
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Old 11-14-2014, 06:13 AM
F32Fleet F32Fleet is online now
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Originally Posted by Bodacious View Post
BMWTurboDzl, not sure where you got your info, but, it aint worth chit.

Unless of course, the '11 model BMW 335d the wife and I tried out was some sorta factory sleeper car that was worth millions with its N57 'all aluminum' diesel.

Both engines I have coming were also pulled from the 335d.

Thanks tim330i, I'll take a look.
Easy there chief no reason to act like that. I had one a 2010 335d. I don't believe the X5 35d got the N57 until 2013-14.

The M57 sold in the US had sequential turbos (w Bosch cp3) made 265hp. The N57 sold in the US has one turbo and makes 255hp.

Perhaps you drove a 535d of a different year?


http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_M57
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  #18  
Old 11-14-2014, 06:47 AM
Bodacious Bodacious is offline
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Quote:
Easy there chief no reason to act like that
lol, yea I apologize. I didn't intend on coming across that harsh.

Your post sorta got me worried and I've actually combed over the internet trying to find data to dispute what you posted. I can't find anything other than data to support what you posted.

I put a call in to All Foreign Auto Parts and they received one of the engines today. He is going out to verify the block material as we speak.

The car we test drove was a 2011 335d. It definitely had the aluminum block and to be honest, I figured since the M57 was replaced by the N57, anything after '08 would have been aluminum. I should have known better.

I'll let ya know more when I get a call back from All Foreign.

BTW, thanks for the post. I would have been heart broken to go get those engines and they not be all aluminum.
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Old 11-14-2014, 07:04 AM
F32Fleet F32Fleet is online now
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Originally Posted by Bodacious View Post
lol, yea I apologize. I didn't intend on coming across that harsh.

Your post sorta got me worried and I've actually combed over the internet trying to find data to dispute what you posted. I can't find anything other than data to support what you posted.

I put a call in to All Foreign Auto Parts and they received one of the engines today. He is going out to verify the block material as we speak.

The car we test drove was a 2011 335d. It definitely had the aluminum block and to be honest, I figured since the M57 was replaced by the N57, anything after '08 would have been aluminum. I should have known better.

I'll let ya know more when I get a call back from All Foreign.

BTW, thanks for the post. I would have been heart broken to go get those engines and they not be all aluminum.
I used to think that the M57 was Alusil but it's apparently iron. It has been awhile. Maybe your supplier sourced an euro spec N57 with sequential turbos (335d F30)
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Old 11-14-2014, 07:06 AM
Bodacious Bodacious is offline
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OK, All Foreign just called back and the engine they just received is and aluminum block. It was pulled from a 2011 335d.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed on the second one.
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  #21  
Old 11-14-2014, 09:22 AM
F32Fleet F32Fleet is online now
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Originally Posted by Bodacious View Post
OK, All Foreign just called back and the engine they just received is and aluminum block. It was pulled from a 2011 335d.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed on the second one.
Good luck. Hope they didn't source a N54/N55. fwiw here is some older literature on the M57. look at pg 17

Google pdf. Diesel Engines M57/M67 Common Rail - Kaross-chip.lv
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  #22  
Old 11-14-2014, 10:05 AM
lpcapital lpcapital is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl View Post
I used to think that the M57 was Alusil but it's apparently iron. It has been awhile. Maybe your supplier sourced an euro spec N57 with sequential turbos (335d F30)
It used to be a CGI block, but starting in 2005 it became aluminum block and the M57 used in the US version of the 35d is a derivation of that block so it's aluminum: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1e...ew?usp=sharing (page 39)

While ROW got the N57 and ZF-8HP with the LCI of both E70 & E90, the US continued to have the combination M57 + ZF-6HP until production of both models ended.
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  #23  
Old 11-14-2014, 10:12 AM
F32Fleet F32Fleet is online now
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Originally Posted by lpcapital View Post
It used to be a CGI block, starting in 2005 it became aluminum block and the M57 used in the US version of the 35d is a derivation of that block so it's aluminum: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1e...ew?usp=sharing (page 39)

While ROW got the N57 and ZF-8HP with the LCI of both E70 & E90, the US continued to have the combination M57 + ZF-6HP until production of both models ended.
BINGO!. I was looking for that document but just couldn't find it. I thought I knew it was an Alusil block. At least I had the engine code correct. The OP should read this doc.
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  #24  
Old 11-14-2014, 12:56 PM
Bodacious Bodacious is offline
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Could I get one of you fellas to translate the info for me????
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  #25  
Old 11-14-2014, 12:57 PM
lpcapital lpcapital is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bodacious View Post
Could I get one of you fellas to translate the info for me????
Translate what? [I'm really not understanding, not being a jerk]
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