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BMW Diesel Owners / Enthusiasts
Do you own a diesel powered BMW? Maybe a 335d or a BMW x35d? Come and talk about what makes your car great!

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  #1  
Old 02-18-2014, 01:17 PM
Dr Diesel Dr Diesel is offline
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Location: Fort Lauderdale, FL
 
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Mein Auto: 2009 335d
335d Leaky Boost Hose replacement / How to!

Hello everyone!
I, as many 335d owners, have experienced the oil soaked boost discharge pipe in the D for far too long! I tried to get the local dealership to replace the hose while they dropped out the front subframe assembly for the dreaded carbon cleaning however they decided it was not defective. The updated boost hose is ~ $380 from BMWNA which is exceedingly expensive for a 4 inch silicone hose with couplings. Alas, there is another source of salvation! The excellent staff at FORGE motorsports have sold a replacement discharge pipe for years over in europe. Since the market for our vehicles is very small in north america they had yet to sell the pipe over here. however, after a quick email, they express shipped one over for me to install and post here at the 'fest!

without further adieu,

HOW TO REPLACE YOUR LEAKING OIL SOAKED FAILURE OF A BOOST HOSE


Purchase your fantastic new boost hose from the fellas over at FORGE motorsports in Orlando, FL http://www.forgemotorsport.com/index.asp?

The boost hose is a well made replacement, with billet aluminum hose ends machined to interface with the OEM turbo discharge pipe and Intercooler inlet.




Now, Get the nose of your D up in the air! I use rhino ramps with custom high end Macassar Ebony hardwood planks to get the car up... or maybe its just good ol white pine 2x4's hehe

Once up and chocked safely, E BRAKE applied etc, fashion yourself the following weapons:

specifically the t25 torx bit, a 7mm and an 8mm deep socket.
eye protection is definitely recommended as well, years of crap will fall on your face. you've been warned. Also, a magnetic bolt pan is a great addition but not necessary.

Remove the underliner from the bottom of the car, there should be sixteen bolts securing it. start with the front three on the bottom of the bumper and work your way back, using your shoulder to support the pan as you go.


Notice the amount of oil soaked into the side below the boost hose? it was slowly working its way upward in the engine bay as well, look around your turbo heat shields and I bet you'll find crud specks there too!

Looking up into the engine bay you will now see the offending discharge pipe



Looking at the bottom of your intercooler, rotate the two plastic retainers holding the bottom valance to the intercooler:

the round one holds the small valance, remove it, and prepare for rocks, rodents, hondas, etc to fall out! also, rotate the square ones too, as they attach the intercooler to the bottom of the fan shroud.

Next, remove the jubliee clip holding the discharge pipe to the intercooler, and the discharge pipe from the intercooler to the intake manifold. they have a small indent, stick your screwdriver in there and pull up till it stays out.

Per the lncluded instructions, remove the two silver t-25 torx screw holding the intercooler in place. start wiggling it loose. I popped out the drivers side discharge pipe first, then using my shoulder to prop the intercooler up, wiggled the turbo discharge pipe loose. Don't let the intercooler fall on your face, it weighs about 8 lbs. ask me how I know...
you will now have this fine piece of german engineering in front of you:


and this lesser piece of german brainfarting still in the car:


I cleaned the outside of the intercooler with brake cleaner till it was devoid of oil and then propped the unit up with the turbo side inlet pipe down to let any residual oil drain out. My car has 60k miles on it and exactly one ounce of dark dark oil came out in about 40 minutes of letting it drain.

to remove the discharge pipe, you need to pop the upper clip off. it inserts in three slots, 120 degrees apart. as the pipe sits, you cannot see the convenient indented slot to pop the clip off, but with some coercion you can rotate the pipe till you see it.

this is a side shot of one of the larger two slots, the sweet spot is right between these two.

After popping the clip loose, pull and the tube will easily come out. if it doesnt, the clip isnt fully retracted. it takes some trial and error.

once out, you need to salvage the lower seal and both jubilee clips:


on the bottom

I also thoroughly cleaned the aluminum discharge tube from the turbo and lubricated it with some light oil.

Swap over the jubilee clip to the upper adapter, and tighten the included worm clamp to lock that in place. Do not install the lower adapter, that goes directly into the intercooler.



looking into the new adapter, you'll notice two rubber orings. lube these up as well as they fit VERY F***ING TIGHT on the turbo pipe. now, ram this thing onto the turbo pipe as gently as you can, till there is enough clearance to slip the stock jubilee clip back in.

you should now have this:


notice the clip is fully inserted, check all three slots, you don't want this blowing off later, right? right.

now, install the lower adapter (with the swapped over seal!!!) into the intercooler,, making sure the clip is fully seated, and bolt that sucker back in place. pay attention to the plastic attachment points that locate the intercooler on the fan shroud. it should bolt in place with no resistance. If there is, its not seated correctly. During this process you will also reinsert the driver side discharge pipe, making sure the clip engages, and also slip the lower adapter into the new silicone hose, that you put the other worm clamp on already, right? tighten that sucker down with the 7mm socket now too. reinstall the lower valance and turn all those fantastic plastic fasteners back to their locked positions.

voila!


clean, and most importantly, not leaking!

I fired the car up and checked for any obvious leaks etc. everything checked out A-OK.

now reinstall the lower underliner, start by inserting it into the front bumper and bolt it from back to front.



lastly:


enjoy! For those not familiar with Cigar City Brewery, its our hometown beer in south florida, Epic beers! try em out!

Initial driving impressions were smoother power delivery and definitely a bit more kick when coming into boost. it may of been a placebo effect but at least I know I wont have oil leaking everywhere.

One last note: when my car was in for the carbon cleaning nightmare, the BMWNA regional tech that was flown in did say the crankcase breather integrated into the valvecover had failed and was allowing an inordinate amount of oil to enter the cold air stream and mix with the egr gasses, causing the buildup of carbon. Nice way to blame a part and not an obviousley failed system design. ( it's not like ALL of our plastic, no moving parts, crankcase breathers failed amiright?) I feel like carbon buildup is sadly an inherent problem with modern common rail diesels with aggressive egr cycles. ( lots of gas DI engine guys are already finding massive carbon loogies on intake valves) but the unchecked oil droplets getting in there certainly didn't help. I will peak back under the car in about a month and look for any oil / signs of leaks.

now onto finding a viable oil separator and a safe way to bypass the egr... and maybe a tune?
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  #2  
Old 02-19-2014, 04:30 PM
jfxogara jfxogara is offline
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That is outstanding! Keep us posted!
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  #3  
Old 02-19-2014, 07:09 PM
robster10 robster10 is online now
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Dr Diesel. Since you had the intercooler out. Does it look like it would be worth it (space or clearances is something you may have noticed) to tap the bottom of the intercooler and put in a draincock or some sort of catch can to contain the oil residue to drain out at a later time during oil changes etc??? Since this is the low point where the oil builds up it would be the best place to contain it.

Last edited by robster10; 02-19-2014 at 07:14 PM.
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  #4  
Old 02-20-2014, 04:48 AM
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Axel61 Axel61 is offline
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Thanks Dr Diesel I will be in the Orlando area in March plan to buy it for my new WAGNER IC already installed
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  #5  
Old 02-20-2014, 09:51 AM
Dr Diesel Dr Diesel is offline
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Robster,

I don't believe it worthwhile to jeopardize the integrity of the intercooler by adding a drain petcock to it. I accumulated 1 oz of oil over 60k miles of standing residual oil in the IC. I Firmly believe that a solution to the oil mist coming out of the crankcase breather is the golden solution for us. Also, the only place I could see adding a drain petcock to would be in one of the plastic housing ends, and that would worry me installing a fitting with epoxy etc for no leaks. you would then have to jack the car up on the opposite side to make that housing end the true low point, as the intercooler is flat across the bottom and oil would pool uniformly, not just around the drain installed. Like the saying goes, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure...
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  #6  
Old 02-20-2014, 10:07 AM
d geek d geek is online now
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Thanks for the nice write up!
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  #7  
Old 02-20-2014, 01:58 PM
robster10 robster10 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Diesel View Post
Robster,

I don't believe it worthwhile to jeopardize the integrity of the intercooler by adding a drain petcock to it. I accumulated 1 oz of oil over 60k miles of standing residual oil in the IC. I Firmly believe that a solution to the oil mist coming out of the crankcase breather is the golden solution for us. Also, the only place I could see adding a drain petcock to would be in one of the plastic housing ends, and that would worry me installing a fitting with epoxy etc for no leaks. you would then have to jack the car up on the opposite side to make that housing end the true low point, as the intercooler is flat across the bottom and oil would pool uniformly, not just around the drain installed. Like the saying goes, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure...
With 1 oz drained out in 40min. I wonder how much more is caked within the internal coils. I also wonder how much more liquid has run up into the discharge side and into the intake causing the blockage/build up in the intake some have had problems with. I have heard of some guys drilling a hole into the intake side black plastic portion and drill it out to let residue leak out and then insert a self tapping screw. The problem I see with this is it doesn't pull the build up from the boost stream just what builds up at the bottom. As you said it is a mist/gas coming from crankcase wich is a hot gas but as it comes into boost tube and intercooler it cools down and must turn into liquid form. Ideally a catch can would be better before the oil/vapour line that feeds into the boost tube turbo side but as others have found, that space is limited as compared how the gassers are built up. After seeing how you pulled the IC out (great pictures) I think something at the bottom could be done to draw the pooling liquid before it fills up along the bottom portion of the IC. I think when it warms up and time permits me a project is in the works. As well remember someone else had installed an aftermarket IC and noticed cooler temps and gains in power. I think it was Axel61. My thinking is the original IC must also be affected in its cooling capacity due to the air tubes getting plugged up and surface area being restricted. Any thoughts about this???

Last edited by robster10; 02-20-2014 at 02:07 PM.
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  #8  
Old 02-20-2014, 02:20 PM
robster10 robster10 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Axel61 View Post
Thanks Dr Diesel I will be in the Orlando area in March plan to buy it for my new WAGNER IC already installed
Hi Axel61. I remember you put in the new IC. When you change the boost pipe can you take a look at how much oil is in it as Dr Diesel noted he drained out an ounce. As well if possible to see how the internals (air flow tubes) look after using it for the time. Just curious if IC is plugging up as well. I will check my IC this spring to see how it looks. Do you still have the original IC?
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  #9  
Old 02-20-2014, 09:03 PM
Dr Diesel Dr Diesel is offline
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The intercooler was definitely not clogged, there is only atomized oil from the crankcase entering the turbo airstream, no hot egr gasses to cause any carbon deposits. the oil only pools in the intercooler because it is the lowest point of the system, so any time the car is off all the oil collects in the intercooler. Also, the intercooler passageways are about 1/4 inch in height each, it would take an inordinate amount of sludge to actually block one of these passageways.

To address your other question, any larger intercooler will absolutely lower charge air temps. However at stock boost levels I highly doubt this to be necessary. I live in south florida and drive my car in a "spirited" manner to say the least. Never have I felt the car was heat soaked... The stock intercooler does not seem undersized. In typical BMW fashion, the FMIC is well integrated into the front fascia and fan shroud, I don't see how an aftermarket solution would bolt in as well as the stock unit. If you were considering substantial tuning and modifications to the boost levels I would definitely recommend as large an intercooler that will fit, but at stock power levels money is far better spent in other departments for power / reliability. The single most important / first mod that anyone with a D should consider is bypassing and tuning out the egr. 95% of our problems stem from that single system.

I wish it were as simple as the 07-09 euro 335d's, a block off plate at the throttle body and bam done, but the egr cooler in the NA E90 335d is also implicated in the cooling system of our cars and is well integrated into the emissions / on board diagnostics. I think we are left with only one option, and that is to block off the egr at the downpipe / dpf and then tune it out. the car will take longer to warm up but it would be worth the absolute banishment of carbon from the intake tract, not to mention a substantial power boost as well!
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  #10  
Old 02-21-2014, 05:42 AM
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Axel61 Axel61 is offline
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Rob at that time I was unaware of oil buildup but my mechanic did mention that issue and thats when we saw the oil leak the gaskets ahd to be replaced by BMW, the hose is OEM still I hv started a thread in the other forum e 90 post. Look it up, I hv written an email and plan to c if they go for the group buy on this sent them the email yesterday still no response. but will keep everyone posted ok
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  #11  
Old 12-30-2014, 03:07 AM
pinny121 pinny121 is offline
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Smile Thankyou

I used your excellent guide to replace my leaking boost pipe with one from Forge motorsport.
The results are great the car drives so much better and feels more responsive.

Thanks again for the guide it was a great help in diagnosing and fixing the issue.
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  #12  
Old 12-30-2014, 04:49 AM
Dr Diesel Dr Diesel is offline
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Location: Fort Lauderdale, FL
 
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Hey man you're welcome!

Just as an update to those interested:

I did a coolant flush yesterday while replacing my thermostat ( another sneaky issue with these cars, hint: bad mpg is probably a bad thermostat) and removed the intercooler to drain the radiator. After all this time there was only a tiny bit of oil in the intercooler compared to just under an ounce when I originally did the install. I've had bmw replace the cylinder head on my car a few months ago and they installed a new valve cover with an updated crankcase breather. So far that seems to be working!
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Old 12-30-2014, 09:27 AM
lpcapital lpcapital is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Diesel View Post
...and they installed a new valve cover with an updated crankcase breather...
Can you elaborate a bit more on this?

The reason I'm asking is because I've modified my crankcase breather system to route the fumes through a Mann ProVent separator to avoid oil to enter the intake. My intake is now dry with no more carbon buildup, but I'd be curious to see if BMW finally came to sense and realized that's the reason behind CBU and figured a correct way to breath the crankcase...
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Last edited by lpcapital; 12-30-2014 at 09:41 AM.
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  #14  
Old 12-30-2014, 11:25 AM
9mmkungfu 9mmkungfu is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lpcapital View Post
Can you elaborate a bit more on this?

The reason I'm asking is because I've modified my crankcase breather system to route the fumes through a Mann ProVent separator to avoid oil to enter the intake. My intake is now dry with no more carbon buildup, but I'd be curious to see if BMW finally came to sense and realized that's the reason behind CBU and figured a correct way to breath the crankcase...
I'm interested as well, as I'm sure others are who have done a catch can style mod.
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Old 01-01-2015, 08:13 AM
Dr Diesel Dr Diesel is offline
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Yes, I mentioned in my previous posts back during the write up that I firmly believed the crankcase breather allowing a significant amount of oil to enter the intake tract coupled with a very aggressive egr function during part throttle / light load was the primary cause of carbon buildup. When bmw did the cylinder head work I asked the tech who came in to do the work about any revisions and he stated the crankcase vent on my original cylinder head (12/2008 build) was a passive Venturi type oil separator and they didn't work all that well. The new one has a different design that separates the oil better. One thing I have noticed is I have what appears to be more "blow by" when I open my oil cap while the car is running. I attribute this to the new crankcase vent not allowing as much vapor to go through during idling. I will still probably install a catch can at some point to allow for a truly dry intake tract. Can you post any pics of your Mann filter?
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Old 05-10-2015, 12:56 PM
kjelly kjelly is offline
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Question about lower seal location

Dr. Diesel, where does that lower seal go in the connection? Does it does in or around the pipe?
My charge pipe (the one exiting the intercooler) became slightly disconnected, and I'm having trouble getting the two pieces to seat together properly.

Thanks.

http://s512.photobucket.com/user/jna...fqlki.jpg.html
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Old 05-10-2015, 01:17 PM
Dr Diesel Dr Diesel is offline
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Your discharge pipe on the drivers side of the intercooler? Or the side where the boost hose I replaced is?
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Old 05-10-2015, 01:28 PM
kjelly kjelly is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Diesel View Post
Your discharge pipe on the drivers side of the intercooler? Or the side where the boost hose I replaced is?
Yeah, sorry, the discharge pipe on the driver's side (not the one you replaced). I came across your thread when searching how to reattach the intercooler pipes. I figure it's the same seal location.

Thank you for your help.
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  #19  
Old 05-10-2015, 01:52 PM
Dr Diesel Dr Diesel is offline
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The green oring goes on the outside of the discharge pipe, ending up inside the plastic part of the intercooler. The jubilee clip provides locking pressure. If ur having a hard time inserting it back in to the intercooler you might want to check that the jubilee clip is actually fully retracted. It interferes in 3 locations 120 degrees apart. Sometimes one of those are still slightly in. Also, lots of lube on the o-ring, they are a tight fit.
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Old 05-11-2015, 05:44 AM
sirbikes sirbikes is online now
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Dumb question, but how do you know you have this problem? What are the symptoms?
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Old 05-11-2015, 06:46 AM
Dr Diesel Dr Diesel is offline
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Easiest way is to look down through the engine bay at the hose. If yours is defective and your vehicle has some miles on it there will be oil / grime everywhere on the red hose. As far as symptoms: sometimes sluggish response off throttle at low speeds, car doesn't feel "as fast" as it used too. All depends on just how badly it's leaking boost. The main thing is the sheer amount of fine oil mist that gets everywhere from that pipe. On my 335d it was blowing back to the passenger side strut mounted heat shield and leaving little specks of caked oil.
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Old 05-11-2015, 08:02 AM
Frediesel Frediesel is offline
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I think the green seal (for the red hose) is on the passenger side and the black seal is on the driver's side. Both go into the grooves around the hose on the metal part then into the intercooler. The seals (if you choose to go with two vs. one seal) that go on the top part of the red hose go inside of the metal tip. I had a really hard time getting the red boost hose back into the intercooler. I ended up wrapping a strong strip of plastic (the kind that is used on boxes for shipping) around the lower end of the hose (on the metal part) and pulled down. I placed a jack stand underneath keeping the intercooler from being pushed down/away.
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Old 05-11-2015, 10:25 AM
Dr Diesel Dr Diesel is offline
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Man, Ive had my intercooler out twice now and never had too much of an issue re installing the pipe... are you sure your jubilee clips were all the way out?
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Old 05-11-2015, 12:31 PM
Frediesel Frediesel is offline
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Yes, all of the the clips were off when I was trying to figure out what the issue was. I thought there was an issue with the new seal, but I had the same issue when I tried the old one. I'm just glad I was able to get it done. BTW, thanks for your DIY guide Dr Diesel. I printed all of the information when I tackled this job. If it weren't for this community I would not have tackled so many maintenance/repair jobs with confidence (oil change,fuel filter,boost hose, transmission fluid,etc.). I have absolutely no prior automotive mechanic experience, but I knew it was necessary to pick up some knowledge in order to keep my car. I know a lot of people who have traded their BMWs/Minis due to repair/maintenance costs.
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Old 05-11-2015, 03:52 PM
sirbikes sirbikes is online now
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Checked mine when I got home from work and it's clean, no oil and not even that dirty. I currently have 92,000 mi on my X5.

Still it's good to know for future reference since I'll be keeping the car and possibly doing some mods to it.
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