My Latest Oil Report

Originally Posted by Penguin

Actually, the sensor BMW uses measures permittivity via changes in the effective capacitance, not resistance.


While I am certain of the capacitance, having read it in BMW service documents, I am not 100% sure of their sensor source, but I believe it is a version of Continental's QLT Sensor:

(Page 83 of this catalog)
http://www.conti-online.com/generator/www/de/en/continental/automotive/general/contact_services/downloads/passenger_cars/powertrian/common/pow_powertrain_products_pdf_en.pdf

Thanks for the info. Service indicator was not reset after my break in oil change, but I was still at 9000mi when the CBS wanted service, so I knew there was more too it than mileage or time.

you are probably right re ford super duty...the f250 was likely designed from the ground up to be sold in the US first, other markets second, where they could just cover the DEF input.

Don't want to start another oil thread...
Today, on my usual way to work, I got low oil warning. Pulled to the parking lot turned of the engine, gave about 5min and checked with the dipstick; the oil shows fine - mid point between max/min. Warning went away after restarting, wonder what's up with that.

Originally Posted by tlak77

Don't want to start another oil thread...
Today, on my usual way to work, I got low oil warning. Pulled to the parking lot turned of the engine, gave about 5min and checked with the dipstick; the oil shows fine - mid point between max/min. Warning went away after restarting, wonder what's up with that.

Sounds like intermittent sensor or wiring harness issue(s). Which is why I personally want to have an oil dipstick - to confirm whether I have a real problem or just a virtual one. I bet you weren't exactly stressed out over the warning once you were able to check the real oil level.

Originally Posted by anE934fun

I bet you weren't exactly stressed out over the warning once you were able to check the real oil level.

It would seem in this day and age of high tech gadgets, we often get these false warnings, they either reset themselves or when you reset it manually it goes away. You tend to lose confidence in the technology.

I wonder what the pilots of these high tech drive by wire airplanes must go through?

Generally you want to beleive the sensors are right, but when it is intermittent, that can really throw you off.

If I got the low oil alarm and my actual oil was midway between H and L, I think I would be tempted to go ahead and top it off to be on the safe side.

I got my latest analysis... I guess I am not too worried. the numbers are so low that it is probably okay to get an oil change every interval per the computer.

Running this oil 11,355 miles may have been just a little too long. Iron accumulated to the point that it may have become abrasive to aluminum and lead, the softer metals in your engine. Aluminum typically comes from pistons and lead shows bearing wear. The good news is that neither metal is so high that your engine will have suffered too much as a result of the excess wear. The oil itself held up nicely. The viscosity is still normal, and the TBN shows active additive left at 1.9. Probably ~10,000 miles will be the optimal oil change for this BMW.

Which oil? Castrol?

Originally Posted by ekay

I got my latest analysis... I guess I am not too worried. the numbers are so low that it is probably okay to get an oil change every per the computer.

Looks good but did you ask them what they meant by "short" for the flashpoint?

Originally Posted by ekay

I got my latest analysis... I guess I am not too worried. the numbers are so low that it is probably okay to get an oil change every per the computer.

Really? This is the part that you should be concerned with if you are planning on long-term ownership of the car:

Running this oil 11,355 miles may have been just a little too long. Iron accumulated to the point that it may have become abrasive to aluminum and lead, the softer metals in your engine. Aluminum typically comes from pistons and lead shows bearing wear.

Originally Posted by 62Lincoln

Which oil? Castrol?

whatever they give at the dealer...

Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl

Looks good but did you ask them what they meant by "short" for the flashpoint?

they said it meant I didn't give them enough oil. Lesson learned, I'll make sure the dealer fills up the bottle next time.

Originally Posted by anE934fun

Really? This is the part that you should be concerned with if you are planning on long-term ownership of the car:

I trust BMW to do a good analysis of engine wear and tear. They also have a vested interest in keeping their cars performing with high reliability. Obviously they don't want to pay for an oil change every 3k miles, but I think they have found a good balance.

I trust blackstone to do an honest analysis of the contaminants in the oil. They recommended I get an oil change every 10k miles, when this sample was from 11k miles. I think they might be a little conservative. Yes the numbers went up, but they just don't seem astronomically bad, especially if they recommend getting an oil change 1k miles less.

I do plan on owning this car long term. Am I being cheap? probably.

Originally Posted by ekay

whatever they give at the dealer...

Thanks! That'd be Castrol...

Originally Posted by ekay

I trust BMW to do a good analysis of engine wear and tear. They also have a vested interest in keeping their cars performing with high reliability.

You need to read the threads littering this board about the HP fuel pump failures on the 335i. That should disabuse you of the notions in the quote. I really like my car, but I do not have faith in BMW's motives when it comes to my welfare. Their refusal to do right by the 335i owners until painted into a corner demonstrates their attitude. It's up to us as owners to be preemptive in the care of our cars.

Originally Posted by ekay

I trust BMW to do a good analysis of engine wear and tear. They also have a vested interest in keeping their cars performing with high reliability. Obviously they don't want to pay for an oil change every 3k miles, but I think they have found a good balance.

I trust blackstone to do an honest analysis of the contaminants in the oil. They recommended I get an oil change every 10k miles, when this sample was from 11k miles. I think they might be a little conservative. Yes the numbers went up, but they just don't seem astronomically bad, especially if they recommend getting an oil change 1k miles less.

I do plan on owning this car long term. Am I being cheap? probably.

Don't be surprised if either crankshaft and/or connecting rod bearings/wrist pin fail around the 75,000 mile point if you continue cheaping out on the oil change interval. BMWs only interest is to get past the 48K mile new car warranty period. After that point, it is on the owner's or the extended warranty insurance company's dime. One thing that is nice about the Blackstone oil analysis reports is that you can watch the bearing/piston wear start to increase as the miles go on the engine.

Agreed. I do that as a matter of course regardless who made the car. Quality oil and filters changed often (me 7000 mi) is important. I err on the side of conservative. Makes no sense to me cheaping out on oil or whatever when engines are $10000 and transmissions @$6000. Being a little anal pays off in the long run.

Originally Posted by 62Lincoln

You need to read the threads littering this board about the HP fuel pump failures on the 335i. That should disabuse you of the notions in the quote. I really like my car, but I do not have faith in BMW's motives when it comes to my welfare. Their refusal to do right by the 335i owners until painted into a corner demonstrates their attitude. It's up to us as owners to be preemptive in the care of our cars.

Originally Posted by anE934fun

Don't be surprised if either crankshaft and/or connecting rod bearings/wrist pin fail around the 75,000 mile point if you continue cheaping out on the oil change interval. BMWs only interest is to get past the 48K mile new car warranty period.

This statement is completely false. BMW has tremendous concern with keeping reliablity intact on these vehicles in excess of the factory warranty period being that CPO sales are a key part of the vehicles life cycle. IF the vehicles do not perform within the CPO period than residuals take a hit which inturn hurts BMW's bottom line.

In anycase a $20 UOA tells you really very little. The readings posted by the OP aren't anything special judging by the miles on the sample. In fact it seems very linear and don't forget we're also talking in parts per million. The analysis by BS can only detect particles of X-microns (excludes larger and smaller) in size therefore a "clean" or "good" UOA could completely miss larger particles which would suggest a REAL problem.

Originally Posted by ekay

I got my latest analysis... I guess I am not too worried. the numbers are so low that it is probably okay to get an oil change every interval per the computer.

I just got my first report from Blackstone (I decided to do a mid-interval change "for fun" and check the stuff out.) I'd post it, but the numbers are quite similar to those in your post (and also I just don't want to bother to upload it.)

The oil in my 2010 335d had run 7210 miles, it was put into the engine at 43630 miles, about 4 months ago (I'm running at 18K miles per year...)

However, the tech who emailed me the report had entered S38/M88 as the engine - read the 35 as the V8, I guess. In a further email, he said (direct quote when I specified M57): "Thanks for the email. Could that possibly an N57. From what I found the M57 is the previous gen." And a further reply: "I try to stay up on the German engines, but they like to make things confusing. I logged your sample in as the M57. Everything looks pretty normal now."

I'm a little concerned by that exchange, and the initial mistake.

Well as we're showing each others, here is mine. Blackstone also completely mucked up the engine info on mine listing it as a 3.5L M30 gasoline. This was 6700 miles on the oil, 16K on the engine. Eveything well in spec except Iron and Copper which are high due to still breaking in. Blackstone is suggesting once fully broken in the oil is good for the 13K mile interval. And that very well may be true, but for about $70 for a mid-cycle (DIY) oil change on a $50K+ car, I'll sleep just a little better.

Originally Posted by KeithS

Well as we're showing each others, here is mine. Blackstone also completely mucked up the engine info on mine listing it as a 3.5L M30 gasoline. This was 6700 miles on the oil, 16K on the engine. Eveything well in spec except Iron and Copper which are high due to still breaking in. Blackstone is suggesting once fully broken in the oil is good for the 13K mile interval. And that very well may be true, but for about $70 for a mid-cycle (DIY) oil change on a $50K+ car, I'll sleep just a little better.

They also have the wrong oil. It's SLX OE Professional. It's not 507/504 oil.

My Aluminum, Iron and Copper #s were 11, 49 & 7. But that's on an engine with 44K miles, (after 7120 miles on the oil) so I think you can discount the break-in theory.

My TBN was 2, and viscosity and everything else was fine.

Anyone have any theories about the high metallic content in these samples? Seems like the oil is lasting well but what's up with the wear? Should we running a higher viscosity?

Got the revised report: "Amended report showing correct engine type. Wear metals are a little higher than universal averages in this sample, but there's not anything here we'd consider a problem at this point.
Universal averages show typical wear levels for this type of engine after about 5,700 miles on the oil. This oil was in use longer than that, which would certainly explain some of this extra wear.
The viscosity was mildly thick for 5W/30, but that usually doesn't hurt anything. The TBN was 2.0 showing plenty of active additive; less than 1.0 is low. Try 9,000 miles on the next oil."

Originally Posted by floydarogers

My Aluminum, Iron and Copper #s were 11, 49 & 7. But that's on an engine with 44K miles, (after 7120 miles on the oil) so I think you can discount the break-in theory.

My TBN was 2, and viscosity and everything else was fine.

Anyone have any theories about the high metallic content in these samples? Seems like the oil is lasting well but what's up with the wear? Should we running a higher viscosity?

Got the revised report: "Amended report showing correct engine type. Wear metals are a little higher than universal averages in this sample, but there's not anything here we'd consider a problem at this point.
Universal averages show typical wear levels for this type of engine after about 5,700 miles on the oil. This oil was in use longer than that, which would certainly explain some of this extra wear.
The viscosity was mildly thick for 5W/30, but that usually doesn't hurt anything. The TBN was 2.0 showing plenty of active additive; less than 1.0 is low. Try 9,000 miles on the next oil."

Those numbers aren't high. We're talking PPM here. 200-300 PPM is high. UOA's are only good for measuring service life of the oil and they only detect a very narrow particle size.

Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl

Those numbers aren't high. We're talking PPM here. 200-300 PPM is high. UOA's are only good for measuring service life of the oil and they only detect a very narrow particle size.

Thanks. I'm a little new to this. I was heartened to see that the #s are very similar to greener engines, and his re-assessment after getting the engine type correct.

I'm no expert (neither are the "comments writers" at Blackstone), but these UOA's look very good to me. I don't know why exactly but the passenger car diesel UOA's I've seen (here and on the BITOG oil forum) always show relatively high wear metals, particularly when the engines are breaking in. Tighter tolerances? Different metallurgy? And based on what I've seen on the VW TDI diesel forum, the break-in period seems to be rather long - - around 50-60k miles.

If you're UOA-anal, there is a sticky on the VW TDI forum here - http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=154548. About 170 pages of diesel UOA's. Start at the end and work backwards to see the UOA's of diesels (around 2009 and later 2.0 liter TDI's) that are the most similar to our 3.0 six in the BMW.

I'm not trying to start an argument, but I disagree with the oft-stated view that our BMWs are not up to the oil change interval spec'd by the factory. This is the view held by most of the folks on the various forums for gas BMW's where anybody that goes 15-18k miles on a oci is viewed as some sort of cretan whose BMW will surely self-destruct by the time it hits 50-75k mi. Exactly the opposite view is held on the TDI forum where anybody that shortens the 10k mi factory oci on a TDI is viewed as a paranoid idiot. Keep in mind that the sump capacity on the 2.0 liter four cylinder TDI is only four liters of oil. In Europe the factory oci on the same car running the same oil is 18k mi. (30,000 kilometers). I came across a UOA for a euro TDI that was done at 17k mi (27k km) and the car had 120k mi (190k km) on the clock. The lab thought it looked great, too (ppm iron was only around 130+)!

I think our 335d's can do a 10-13k mi oci without even breaking a sweat. Trust in the cbs monitor.

FWIW, I'd recommend not doing an early "break-in" oil change to wash out wear metals, if you haven't already done so. It's no big deal if you have. There's a chance that the factory fill has some special additives - - a break-in oil in other words. The factory fill on our 335d's is a FUCHS oil. FUCHS is known in Europe as the "factory fill specialist" (they were chosen to formulate the oil for the Rolls Royce engines in the Concorde - - one of the most powerful jet engines ever and they only made 63 of them - - that's really being a fill specialist). The tell-tale is the lack of any zinc in the BMW factory fill - - deliberately so as to keep unwanted deposits down. Somehow FUCHS has figured out how to separate the zinc from the active anti-wear agent phosphorous in the zddp. Someone on the TDI forum who visited the VW engine factory in Germany was told that the diesels were filled with a FUCHS oil and was advised not to change the oil before its first scheduled 10k oil change. So, I'd recommend not trying to second-guess BMW's oci's.

Here's a link to a FUCHS oil that is probably pretty close to the factory fill - http://www.thedieselstore.com/templa...VehNum=1117792. It carries the BMW LL04 approval and might be worth a try after the free BMW oil changes run out. It's very clean - - would form very low level of deposits (good for the turbo).

Originally Posted by m6pwr

I'm no expert ......

I think our 335d's can do a 10-13k mi oci without even breaking a sweat. Trust in the cbs monitor.....

M6pwr, You say you're not an expert but sounds like you know more than many of us (including the lab rats at Blackstone).

I agree that the BMW OCI is fine for some driving conditions such as for those who drive a lot, and routinely get the engine good and hot to burn off moisture and impurities. But if you are one to drive the car 5 miles each way to work every day and that's about it, the factory recommend OCI will only result in a badly sludged engine.

And while the engine is quite tough and durable, not so sure the turbochargers (bearings) that share that same oil are. So back to my original statement; the extra changes are probably not needed, but on a $50K+ car, it certainly will not hurt, and gives me a little more piece of mind.