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F10 / F11 (2011 - Current)
The new chapter in the highly successful story of the BMW 5 Series Sedan (F10) and wagon (F11)

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  #1  
Old 08-11-2010, 05:29 AM
morrisond morrisond is offline
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Drove a 528 vs 535 - Preferred the 528

Today I drove a 528. I drove the 535 two weeks ago and really didn't like it as it was too isolated, felt like a Lexus, throttle tip in was mushy even in Sport + and I didn't like the powerband of the engine which fell off after 5,000 rpm. In short it didn't feel like a classic BMW that relied on Revs and short gearing to provide performance.


Witihin 2 minutes I fell in love with the 528. It seems to have a little less sound insulation so you can actually hear the engine (they had to save 280 lbs somewhere), you feel a very nice subtle vibration through the wheel so you can actually tell it's turned on, and it just keeps pulling to redline, it doesn't sign off at 5,000 rpm, you get a reward for revving it and holding gears.

The shorter gearing was nice too as throttle response was immediate, it paired really nicely with the 8sp, shifts were instant in manual mode.

The steering was nicely weighted for normal driving and body roll was minimal (probably another benefit of it being 280 lbs lighter.

In short it felt like a bigger more comfortable 3 series vs. a downsized 7.

It felt like a real BMW, and more than enough performance for real roads in North America, you can use a lot more of the throttle than the 535 which to me makes it a lot more fun.

Price independant, I think I would choose the 528. Nice car.

I also had it confirmed that Canada at least will get the 528Xi early in the new year.

Does anyone know how they saved 280 lbs?
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  #2  
Old 08-11-2010, 07:42 AM
5Xwen 5Xwen is offline
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Originally Posted by morrisond View Post

Price independant, I think I would choose the 528. Nice car.
Different strokes - different folks.

The only reason I would choose a 528 over a 535 would be if I needed to save money.
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  #3  
Old 08-11-2010, 08:45 AM
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tturedraider tturedraider is offline
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The N52. The reason I chose an E90 330i rather than a 335i. I'm a little envious of the 528. Even though it makes only 240 hp to my 255 hp it has 230 lb/ft tq to move those horses to my 220 lb/ft tq.
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  #4  
Old 08-12-2010, 09:01 PM
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skier skier is offline
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Originally Posted by tturedraider View Post
The N52. The reason I chose an E90 330i rather than a 335i.
You mean the 2006 330i in your signature? For 2006 model year there was no 335i, therefore your choice was either 335i or 325i - 335i was not offered in 2006 model year.

Nothing against the car, I had a 2006 330i, drove it around Europe for a month, and enjoyed it.
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Old 08-12-2010, 09:09 PM
DTMfan DTMfan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skier View Post
You mean the 2006 330i in your signature? For 2006 model year there was no 335i, therefore your choice was either 335i or 325i - 335i was not offered in 2006 model year.

Nothing against the car, I had a 2006 330i, drove it around Europe for a month, and enjoyed it.
Not true

325i US 2006 3.0 L I6 218 PS (160 kW; 215 bhp) 270 Nm (199 lbft)
328i US, CA 2007+ 3.0 L I6 233 PS (171 kW; 230 bhp) 270 Nm (199 lbft)
330i US, CA 2006 3.0 L I6 258 PS (190 kW; 254 bhp) 300 Nm (221 lbft)
335i US, CA, EUR 20072010 3.0 L twin-turbo I6 N54 304 PS (224 kW; 300 bhp) 407 Nm (300 lbft
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  #6  
Old 08-12-2010, 09:20 PM
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skier skier is offline
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Not true

325i US 2006 3.0 L I6 218 PS (160 kW; 215 bhp) 270 Nm (199 lbft)
328i US, CA 2007+ 3.0 L I6 233 PS (171 kW; 230 bhp) 270 Nm (199 lbft)
330i US, CA 2006 3.0 L I6 258 PS (190 kW; 254 bhp) 300 Nm (221 lbft)
335i US, CA, EUR 20072010 3.0 L twin-turbo I6 N54 304 PS (224 kW; 300 bhp) 407 Nm (300 lbft
Huh? Not true what? E90 330i was only offered as a 2006 model year, replaced for 2007 model year by 335i. They were not offered in the same model year, just look at the numbers you quoted.

Unless he talks used cars, but then it's apples to oranges.
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Old 08-13-2010, 09:51 AM
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tturedraider tturedraider is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skier View Post
You mean the 2006 330i in your signature? For 2006 model year there was no 335i, therefore your choice was either 330i or 325i - 335i was not offered in 2006 model year.

Nothing against the car, I had a 2006 330i, drove it around Europe for a month, and enjoyed it.
You made a typo when referring to the 2006 choices. I corrected it.

I bought my car used, so I had the option of choosing an E90 330i or a 335i. I chose the 330i, because of the engine it had. It was what I wanted. I'm not of the opinion that more is always better.
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  #8  
Old 08-18-2010, 09:00 AM
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SteVTEC SteVTEC is offline
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morrisond, we're sure to be in the minority here but you're certainly not alone. I'm a sometimes less is more type of person as well. Classic BMW naturally-aspirated Inline-6 engines are modern works of art, sound and feel great, love to be revved, and are seemingly an endangered species these days. It's blissful to watch, listen, and feel them work. Make a big one with some turbos on it and you lose the ability to do that. Especially here in the DC area, you can't mat the accelerator on a powerful car here for more than a second or two or even an instant before you're going to get yourself into trouble. The other day I was behind a lovely white E60 545i on an on-ramp. He gunned it a bit and a whole 2 seconds later had to get on the brakes for other traffic. Wow. I'm sure they were satisifed with that run. Probably a good thing there was traffic to stop them because a mile up the road there was a cop. With a less powerful engine you can have some fun winding it out a bit and actually drive the thing, and not get up to such ridiculous speeds in such a hurry.

Hoping to test drive a 528i next Friday. Have been down the path before of having an excess of power and having absolutely no fun because of nowhere to enjoy it, so honestly I don't even have much of an interest in the 535i. Maybe the wife will though, so who knows.
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  #9  
Old 08-18-2010, 09:07 AM
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SteVTEC SteVTEC is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tturedraider View Post
The N52. The reason I chose an E90 330i rather than a 335i. I'm a little envious of the 528. Even though it makes only 240 hp to my 255 hp it has 230 lb/ft tq to move those horses to my 220 lb/ft tq.
Yes! THE 530i IS BACK!

Well maybe not in name, but at least in spirit. Saw a quote for 0-60 in 6.6s for the 528i which is just as quick as the E60 530i with the N52 motor. Still not quite as high spec as the Euro N53 which was rated around 260-265hp and 230 lb-ft, but it'll do. The biggest difference the 15-20 ponies at the top would make is if you finally found a clear stretch of unlimited autobahn, but that sure as heck ain't gonna happen where I live. Will be able to make quite good use of the 10 lb-ft of extra torque (or 30 lb-ft vs the old 528i) all day long.

Had been planning to ED an E60 530i back in the day (2007) but couldn't work out our timing for the trip due to too much going on at the time. By the time we could have made the trip it was 2008 and the choices were the newly neutered 3.0L, or way too much with the 335i neither of which I'd be fully happy with. Said to heck with it and got something else (cheaper) figuring they might bring back a hotter spec 3.0L NA engine in the 5er on the redesign. Looks like I was right so can't wait to try one out.
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  #10  
Old 08-18-2010, 01:30 PM
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Bart001 Bart001 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteVTEC View Post
morrisond, we're sure to be in the minority here but you're certainly not alone. I'm a sometimes less is more type of person as well. Classic BMW naturally-aspirated Inline-6 engines are modern works of art, sound and feel great, love to be revved, and are seemingly an endangered species these days. It's blissful to watch, listen, and feel them work. Make a big one with some turbos on it and you lose the ability to do that.
I don't quite understand -- you lose the ability to do what, exactly?
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  #11  
Old 08-18-2010, 01:41 PM
morrisond morrisond is offline
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Hold it down for more than a few seconds on a public road before you are doing really illegal speeds. You can use more of the throttle of a 528 more often than a 535.

Now this doesn't mean that if 240Hp is the right HP than even less is better, I'm just trying to point out it's quite satisfying, sounds and feels great and with the 8 sp 0-60 in 6 and a bit seconds is more than adequate. The 535 engine just felt too isolated as at normal road speeds due to it's taller gearing is revving less and has much poorer throttle tip-in.

Unless your a bank robber, or do track days, the power of the 535 is nice, but you really can't use it all that often.

Who actually in normal driving in traffic can floor a 535/550 and keep your foot in it for more than a few seconds?
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Old 08-18-2010, 01:56 PM
Munich77 Munich77 is offline
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Originally Posted by morrisond View Post
Hold it down for more than a few seconds on a public road before you are doing really illegal speeds. You can use more of the throttle of a 528 more often than a 535.

Now this doesn't mean that if 240Hp is the right HP than even less is better, I'm just trying to point out it's quite satisfying, sounds and feels great and with the 8 sp 0-60 in 6 and a bit seconds is more than adequate. The 535 engine just felt too isolated as at normal road speeds due to it's taller gearing is revving less and has much poorer throttle tip-in.

Unless your a bank robber, or do track days, the power of the 535 is nice, but you really can't use it all that often.

Who actually in normal driving in traffic can floor a 535/550 and keep your foot in it for more than a few seconds?
Great assessment - especially if you got lovely 80 km/h or so speed limited liked they had in BC when I lived there. Personally I love the hp that my 2008 535 xi has but it is excess. Given that turbo engines can be way too complex, the 528i looks like a great pick. A 6 second 0-60 time is plenty fast for merging in traffic.
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  #13  
Old 08-18-2010, 02:10 PM
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markl53 markl53 is offline
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Torque baby, torque

It's not necessarily the HP of the 535i that is so satisfying, but the torque. After driving a 335i for a couple of years, you simply get used to being able to accelerate effortlessly any gear, any speed. Um, flooring any decent car for a few seconds will propel you to higher-than-legal speeds, even a 528i I would say. Do you really think you'll floor the 528i and wait and wait for speed? I think not. There is just no comparison to the sheer feeling of power, even at lower speeds, due to the availability of torque on the N54/N55 engines.
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  #14  
Old 08-19-2010, 12:46 AM
akhter akhter is offline
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Coming from a 335i, I also decided to go with a non turbo 528i this time. Forgot how insanely smooth BMW NA engines were and I love it
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  #15  
Old 08-19-2010, 05:55 AM
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Bart001 Bart001 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by morrisond View Post
You can use more of the throttle of a 528 more often than a 535.
That's why I recently purchased a 50 watt-per-channel amplifier for my home audio system -- I can use more of the volume control more often than with the 100 watt model
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Old 08-19-2010, 06:26 AM
5Xwen 5Xwen is offline
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That's why I recently purchased a 50 watt-per-channel amplifier for my home audio system -- I can use more of the volume control more often than with the 100 watt model
Great idea. Here are a few of mine...

Downgrade to a smaller lawn tractor so you can use more of the engine.

Downgrade to a laptop computer with a slower processor so you can use more of its processing power.

Downgrade to a microwave with less power so you can nuke your food longer.

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Old 08-19-2010, 07:24 AM
BruceOmega BruceOmega is offline
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Originally Posted by markl53 View Post
it's not necessarily the hp of the 535i that is so satisfying, but the torque. After driving a 335i for a couple of years, you simply get used to being able to accelerate effortlessly any gear, any speed. Um, flooring any decent car for a few seconds will propel you to higher-than-legal speeds, even a 528i i would say. Do you really think you'll floor the 528i and wait and wait for speed? I think not. There is just no comparison to the sheer feeling of power, even at lower speeds, due to the availability of torque on the n54/n55 engines.
+ 1
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  #18  
Old 08-19-2010, 07:52 PM
akhter akhter is offline
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If you haven't driven the Euro spec 528i, then you have no basis for comparing it to 535i. its almost 170lb less in weight and is 260hp vs 300 for the 535i. The engine is super smooth and its drive feel is closer to the high revving feel of the M3.

I had the 335i and in city was always feathering the throttle. In the 528i, that is reduced by a lot. However, the N54/55 has fantastic low end torque for passing.

They do drive a bit differently. Dismissing the NA engine for the TT one is not so simple. Personally if I cared about torque I would get the 550i, but Hong Kong drive, with no highways and traffic everywhere, I found the 528i more enjoyable.

And yes, I can afford the 550i as well as 740i and M3

If I were in the US though, I would probably get the M5. As it is, I am paying close to 100k USD for my loaded 528i (85% tax on cars in HK). In 30 mins you can get from one end of HK to the other and no tracks :'(
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  #19  
Old 08-19-2010, 07:54 PM
akhter akhter is offline
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That's why I recently purchased a 50 watt-per-channel amplifier for my home audio system -- I can use more of the volume control more often than with the 100 watt model
No quite a good analogy.

A good 50wpc amplifier can sound far better than a mediocre 200wpc amplifier.

Just sayin...
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Old 08-21-2010, 12:03 AM
LHB LHB is offline
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No quite a good analogy.

A good 50wpc amplifier can sound far better than a mediocre 200wpc amplifier.

Just sayin...
Quite so. You'll get my 80 wpc Linn Klout when you pry it from my cold, dead hands. Likewise, within it's power range, the feel and performance of a lower powered, naturally aspirated engine can be far more satisfying than that of a higher powered, forced induction engine, especially when one considers the way the engine "mates" with the car's other parts, and the way the car mates with the road.

In home audio, the perfect analogy would be the way the power amplifier mates with the upstream components, and the way the entire system integrates with the listening room.

The basic principle of "connoisseur-ship" is that the enjoyment of many things contains a purely subjective component that cannot be quantified, measured or objectively compared.

I know I'm above my paygrade posting here in the F10 forums, but that's one of the reasons some of us e46 Fanatics will continue driving these cars until there are no more of them left to drive.

In short, I can easily see why an F10 fan would prefer the 528 to the 535. Being thrown back in the seat every time you touch the gas pedal is not the be-all and end-all of driving pleasure.
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Old 08-21-2010, 12:33 AM
akhter akhter is offline
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In short, I can easily see why an F10 fan would prefer the 528 to the 535. Being thrown back in the seat every time you touch the gas pedal is not the be-all and end-all of driving pleasure.
Well said...
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Old 08-21-2010, 05:02 AM
Ronsell Ronsell is offline
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Originally Posted by LHB View Post
Quite so. You'll get my 80 wpc Linn Klout when you pry it from my cold, dead hands. Likewise, within it's power range, the feel and performance of a lower powered, naturally aspirated engine can be far more satisfying than that of a higher powered, forced induction engine, especially when one considers the way the engine "mates" with the car's other parts, and the way the car mates with the road.

In home audio, the perfect analogy would be the way the power amplifier mates with the upstream components, and the way the entire system integrates with the listening room.

The basic principle of "connoisseur-ship" is that the enjoyment of many things contains a purely subjective component that cannot be quantified, measured or objectively compared.

I know I'm above my paygrade posting here in the F10 forums, but that's one of the reasons some of us e46 Fanatics will continue driving these cars until there are no more of them left to drive.

In short, I can easily see why an F10 fan would prefer the 528 to the 535. Being thrown back in the seat every time you touch the gas pedal is not the be-all and end-all of driving pleasure.
Precisely.
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Old 08-21-2010, 06:37 AM
morrisond morrisond is offline
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Very well said and historically more what BMW has historically been about, making the perfect 50W amplifier and Monitor Speakers, the "Ultimate Driving Machine". Not the ultimate Drag car or track car. The car that spoke to the driver in every nuance of it's interface with the driver.

I find it telling that the 528 is 280 lbs lighter and has a perfect 50.0/50.0 weight distribution. Maybe this is the BMW engineers perfect 50W amp.
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Old 08-21-2010, 08:21 AM
akhter akhter is offline
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I suspect most people going for 535 are not people who owned both an NA BMW and a Twin Turbo BMW. Having owned both a 328i and a 335i, I found the NA engines sweeter, the same way an M3 engine is sweeter than a 335i engine even though the 335i has more torque. After I got over my 335i I swore to myself I would get an NA BMW next if it was possible. I do believe, BMW will make the next gen turbo's even smoother as with the X5/6 M cars. Already the Twin Turbo V8 is smoother than the N54/55.
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  #25  
Old 08-21-2010, 04:19 PM
Stevej2001 Stevej2001 is online now
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Just drove both myself. I've an '08 535 but I think I'll go for the F10 528. Power is 'enough', no lag, better mpg, less expensive.
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