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F10 / F11 (2011 - Current)
The new chapter in the highly successful story of the BMW 5 Series Sedan (F10) and wagon (F11)

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  #26  
Old 08-21-2010, 08:09 PM
bikerboy bikerboy is offline
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Yeah, that's what I always say...."give me less horsepower!" Maybe they'll come up with an even slower car soon.
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  #27  
Old 08-21-2010, 08:58 PM
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Yeah, that's what I always say...."give me less horsepower!" Maybe they'll come up with an even slower car soon.
They already did -- the 2010 Mercedes-Benz E350 .
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  #28  
Old 08-21-2010, 10:01 PM
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Originally Posted by bikerboy View Post
Yeah, that's what I always say...."give me less horsepower!" Maybe they'll come up with an even slower car soon.
Hp isn't the only criteria for some and neither is torque. Driving flat out for extended period in a smoother engine for me ranks higher. And the 528i is the smoothest F10 right now. I know it's a difficult concept to grasp.
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  #29  
Old 08-22-2010, 06:59 AM
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Hp isn't the only criteria for some and neither is torque. Driving flat out for extended period in a smoother engine for me ranks higher. And the 528i is the smoothest F10 right now. I know it's a difficult concept to grasp.
+1. It's just a shame that, for the US market, no MT is offered for the 528. It is the one car of the three F10s for which a stick shift makes sense. I'll stick with my 2008 328i for now because of that.
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  #30  
Old 08-22-2010, 09:21 AM
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Originally Posted by 5Xwen View Post
Great idea. Here are a few of mine...

Downgrade to a smaller lawn tractor so you can use more of the engine.

Downgrade to a laptop computer with a slower processor so you can use more of its processing power.

Downgrade to a microwave with less power so you can nuke your food longer.



The analogies are funny as hell, and cunny.

When I am at the highway speed and having to quickly bypass a few slow moving vehicles before they box me in, the readily available power and torque of my 535 is never, never an excess.
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  #31  
Old 08-29-2010, 04:24 AM
kim987s kim987s is offline
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Hi everybody,

I'm new here. I drive a Porsche Boxster S as my daily driver and have been looking at the 5 series (528i and 535i). I have just test driven both the 528i and 535i both with sport package on both highway and twisty roads and here are my conclusions: from a steering feel stand point I definitely prefer the 528i. It felt much more connected to the road. My first impression on the 535i was that it felt very vague with little feedback (this is coming from a Porsche driver). I have driven the previous generation 535i and did not feel this way about the steering feel. The 528i engine IMHO is very smooth and "quick enough" for most use on regular roads. I see the 5 series as my "family car" and probably would not drive it as aggressively as I do on my Porsche. At this point, I would pick the 528i over the 535i from a driver's perspective as I feel that the 528i steering in my hands felt much more connected to the road than the 535i and I like the idea that it's an normally aspirated engine. I feel that the turbo is one more thing that can break. I generally like to keep my cars for a long time (over 150,000 miles). Now where the diesel option??? I would be all over a 5 series with the 335d diesel engine. IMHO, that would be the combination to get in a 5 series: higher torque, much higher fuel mileage, longer lasting engine...what am I missing???
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  #32  
Old 08-29-2010, 05:19 AM
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My wife and I also test drove both the 528i and 535i on Friday. We both also preferred the 528i. I expected that's how it would turn out for me, due to the fact that I get frustrated when I have a higher powered vehicle but no opportunity to flog it due to where we live, but I had no idea what my wife's preferences would be.

Our expectations for the 528i were far lower. How could a lowly 3.0L naturally aspirated I-6 move along a 3800 lb sedan so quickly? Well the numbers don't lie. BMW claims 0-60 in 6.6s, and that's about what it felt like. Very impressive. Engine sounded and felt great, throttle response was very crisp, and the 8 speed transmission was amazing. Loved the short gearing and how quickly the revs climbed even at normal speeds. Car felt very very good to drive as well. It put a grin on both of our faces.

My expectations for the 535i were a lot higher, but honestly I was a bit let down. I was expecting to be "blown away" as so many have described here, and for it to be more of a thrill ride. It just didn't live up. While no doubt it's definitely faster, it's not like the 528i is slow. Both will push you back into your seat in the lower gears. The gearing is noticeably taller in the 535, I didn't think the throttle response was as crisp, there is some turbo lag which is noticeable in urban driving, and the transmission seems to prefer the upper gears a bit more in the 535i utilizing the torque rather than being more willing to wind up a bit like in the 528i. The engine sounds throatier than the 528, and I also think it's a bit quieter wide-open. So while it's faster for sure, it just doesn't convey the speed as well as the 528 does. Faster, but more deceptive in its speed.

As expected, I found the 535 very frustrating to drive in our neck of the woods. While it's certainly not Hong Kong like the OP, the 'sprawl-and-crawl' DC suburbs are very urbanized, always lots of traffic, lots of 45 mph limits, lots of speed cameras both fixed, mobile, and portable units, and lots of cops. The few times I jabbed the throttle in the 535i it was only a second or two until I was already going too fast, there was traffic, or whatever, and had to get on the brakes pretty good. I found the 528i more enjoyable to drive because of this, for the better throttle response, slightly louder and subjectively better sounding engine, the shorter gearing, and the fact that you could have fun working and driving it just a bit more before the fun has to come to an end. My wife had little interest in the extra power either. The way she drives, she'd never even use all of what the 528i would provide, unless she was late for a sale at Neiman Marcus.

This is the fastest and most impressive base engine in a BMW 5-series ever. The E60 started out with the M54B25 engine and would barely do 0-60 in under 8 seconds. The E60 528i was still in the low-7 range. 6.6s is outstanding and more than enough for most people. Looking forward to doing an ED in the spring.
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  #33  
Old 08-29-2010, 06:21 AM
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Originally Posted by kim987s View Post
Hi everybody,

I'm new here. I drive a Porsche Boxster S as my daily driver and have been looking at the 5 series (528i and 535i). I have just test driven both the 528i and 535i both with sport package on both highway and twisty roads and here are my conclusions: from a steering feel stand point I definitely prefer the 528i. It felt much more connected to the road. My first impression on the 535i was that it felt very vague with little feedback (this is coming from a Porsche driver).
I've only driven (and ordered) the 535i. So your conclusion is that you feel the steering system in the 528i is somehow significantly different from that in the 535i? You say both cars were equipped with the same sport packages. Did you have the settings the same for both drives? I kind of find it hard to believe the two models, set for the same setting (normal, sport, etc), would have significantly different feel in something as basic as the steering system. I don't think I've seen another report of such differences. I guess I'll need to drive a 528i as well to see if I can notice a significant difference.
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  #34  
Old 08-29-2010, 06:30 AM
Munich77 Munich77 is offline
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They already did -- the 2010 Mercedes-Benz E350 .
Well that is true at least for the time being... Mercedes is also going to be replacing its engines with turbo charged ones.
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  #35  
Old 08-29-2010, 07:12 AM
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Originally Posted by LHB View Post
Quite so. You'll get my 80 wpc Linn Klout when you pry it from my cold, dead hands. Likewise, within it's power range, the feel and performance of a lower powered, naturally aspirated engine can be far more satisfying than that of a higher powered, forced induction engine, especially when one considers the way the engine "mates" with the car's other parts, and the way the car mates with the road.

In home audio, the perfect analogy would be the way the power amplifier mates with the upstream components, and the way the entire system integrates with the listening room.

The basic principle of "connoisseur-ship" is that the enjoyment of many things contains a purely subjective component that cannot be quantified, measured or objectively compared.

I know I'm above my paygrade posting here in the F10 forums, but that's one of the reasons some of us e46 Fanatics will continue driving these cars until there are no more of them left to drive.

In short, I can easily see why an F10 fan would prefer the 528 to the 535. Being thrown back in the seat every time you touch the gas pedal is not the be-all and end-all of driving pleasure.
I think you hit the nail on the head here. Looking back at all of the vehicles I've owned or driven enough to comment on, the ultimate amount of pleasure and enjoyment I got from driving each vehicle in the end had little to do with any individual specification like horsepower, or how much acceleration it would deliver, but rather how well everything came together as a whole. Some cars I've driven with pretty pathetic specifications were actually quite fun to drive, whereas some of the faster ones were no fun at all due to things not coming together well, or no room or space to enjoy the power making them more on the frustrating side. Excellent post.
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  #36  
Old 08-29-2010, 07:53 AM
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Originally Posted by SteVTEC View Post
Some cars I've driven with pretty pathetic specifications were actually quite fun to drive, whereas some of the faster ones were no fun at all due to things not coming together well, or no room or space to enjoy the power making them more on the frustrating side.
I wonder what the 550i guys are thinking reading of all these complaints of "too much power" -- they're probably ROFL.
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  #37  
Old 08-29-2010, 08:54 AM
pony_trekker pony_trekker is offline
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Originally Posted by 5Xwen View Post
Great idea. Here are a few of mine...

Downgrade to a smaller lawn tractor so you can use more of the engine.

Downgrade to a laptop computer with a slower processor so you can use more of its processing power.

Downgrade to a microwave with less power so you can nuke your food longer.

This is different. What sounds better? a 50 watt Marshall cranked to 10 or a Marshall Major?
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  #38  
Old 08-29-2010, 10:10 AM
Ronsell Ronsell is offline
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Originally Posted by kim987s View Post
Hi everybody,

I'm new here. I drive a Porsche Boxster S as my daily driver and have been looking at the 5 series (528i and 535i). I have just test driven both the 528i and 535i both with sport package on both highway and twisty roads and here are my conclusions: from a steering feel stand point I definitely prefer the 528i. It felt much more connected to the road. My first impression on the 535i was that it felt very vague with little feedback (this is coming from a Porsche driver). I have driven the previous generation 535i and did not feel this way about the steering feel. The 528i engine IMHO is very smooth and "quick enough" for most use on regular roads. I see the 5 series as my "family car" and probably would not drive it as aggressively as I do on my Porsche. At this point, I would pick the 528i over the 535i from a driver's perspective as I feel that the 528i steering in my hands felt much more connected to the road than the 535i and I like the idea that it's an normally aspirated engine. I feel that the turbo is one more thing that can break. I generally like to keep my cars for a long time (over 150,000 miles). Now where the diesel option??? I would be all over a 5 series with the 335d diesel engine. IMHO, that would be the combination to get in a 5 series: higher torque, much higher fuel mileage, longer lasting engine...what am I missing???
You're not missing a thing, IMO.
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  #39  
Old 08-29-2010, 11:17 AM
kim987s kim987s is offline
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In response to markl53...

Both were set on same "sport" setting. I have no idea if the steering system is different between the cars. I doubt it...I'm thinking the weight difference between the 2 cars (approximately 200 ibs) and the slight difference in weight distribution (the 528i is 50/50, the 535 is close but not exactly 50/50) has something to do with the steering feel. Remember, weight in general is an enemy to performance whether its regarding fuel economy, handling, braking, etc. That's why coming from Porsche their track cars (GT3, GT2RS) generally come or should be "stripped" (no radio, no AC, no Navagation, even cloth handles)...this is all to try to save weight on the car to try to "increase performance".
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  #40  
Old 08-29-2010, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by kim987s View Post
Hi everybody,

I'm new here. I drive a Porsche Boxster S as my daily driver and have been looking at the 5 series (528i and 535i). I have just test driven both the 528i and 535i both with sport package on both highway and twisty roads and here are my conclusions: from a steering feel stand point I definitely prefer the 528i.
I'm wondering why you chose the Boxster S over the base Boxster. At $10,400 more, you got the bigger, more powerful engine (only .6 faster 0-60), a couple of standard interior trim pieces, oh, the red brake calipers, the "S" on the back and 1 mpg worse fuel efficiency. Surely the base Boxster was fast enough?
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  #41  
Old 08-29-2010, 11:25 AM
kim987s kim987s is offline
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So it really depends what you are looking for...If you want the fastest care from 0-60 then get the 535i or 550i over the 528i. But if "steering feel" is what you want IMHO and in my hands no doubt I would pick the 528i over the 530i. It felt that much better to me (regarding steering feel) when I test drove the two cars going up hill, going down hill, merging into the freeways on the onramp. True, the 535i is obviously the "quicker car". So it depends what you want.
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  #42  
Old 08-29-2010, 11:32 AM
kim987s kim987s is offline
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The base boxster is certainly "fast enough" as well. The reason I chose the Boxster S is I plan to keep the car for a long time (10+ years) and I wanted to customize it with a few options (full leather, optional hardtop, etc.). If you order alot of options, it made more sense to me to put it on the S rather than the base Boxster. If you order a stripped car, I would say then a base boxster would be a "best buy" between the two. This would be a great track car at a more affordable price point.
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  #43  
Old 08-29-2010, 06:20 PM
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Originally Posted by markl53 View Post
I wonder what the 550i guys are thinking reading of all these complaints of "too much power" -- they're probably ROFL.
Hey Gaithersburg! I'm actually right down the road from you in Rockville, so you know the roads around here.

Imagine a road like 355, but with less than one-tenth the population density and traffic, less than one-tenth the number of lights, no red light cameras, no speed cameras, no cops, and really nobody that's going to care of you go tearing through a stretch of road in the middle of the day and even less so at night, and that pretty much every road was like that. That's where I used to live, out in the rural midwest. I wish I had a faster car when I lived out there, much faster, because it was a blast. Driving around here is like constantly driving in a school zone in comparison. I'd totally go for at least a 535 or even a 550 out there, but just don't have any burning desire for a "fast" car around here.

Since you mention the 550 though... If I really wanted something faster than the 528, I'd skip the 535 and go straight for the 550. Haven't test driven one and don't plan to, but two reasons I was a bit underwhelmed with the 535 is because I was expecting effortless V8 like thrust at lower RPMs and stong acceleration without the transmission needing to kick down, but it still needed to kick down some gears to get going hard. I've been in V8 bimmers and the feel just isn't the same. Maybe the E60 was difference since it's like 400 lbs lighter, and I'm sure the E90 is different too, but just wasn't feeling the excitement from this motor in the F10. Flogging it from 55 to 90 I was also expecting it to push me back into my seat a lot stronger than it did. You mean that's it?? Not knocking it and yes it's definitely faster than the 528, I was just expecting more is all. I'm sure the 550 would not leave me dissatisfied, but if it'd already be tough for me personally to enjoy a 535 around here I have no idea what I'd do with a 550 besides get myself into a whole heap of trouble. There's no such thing as too much power, but there's definitely such a thing as more power than you're reasonably going to be able to use and enjoy.

I'll blame the auto tranny and the torque converter slushiness. I bet I'd like the F10 535 a lot better with the 6MT. The dealership I went to actually had one sitting right in the showroom, but a manual isn't in the cards at this time.
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  #44  
Old 08-29-2010, 06:32 PM
TerraPhantm TerraPhantm is offline
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I have no experience with an F10, but I do have experience with an NA and Turbo 3 liter engine. My car has an M54, and my dad's car (E60 535xi) has an N54. While I love my 330i, and driving it is more fun than almost any other car I've driven, the engine doesn't hold a candle to the N54. The torque difference is just too large. The only reason I prefer driving my 3 is because it has a proper transmission (6MT) and much better handling. Otherwise I feel my ZHP is far too slow (and it should be quicker than the F10 528 with 235 hp and 222lb-ft torque while weighing 500+ lbs less)

Maybe the N54 (twin-turbo) is more responsive than the new single-turbo engine? I know on paper the n55 is superior, but many have felt BMW underrated the N54 significantly
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  #45  
Old 08-29-2010, 07:12 PM
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Originally Posted by SteVTEC View Post
Hey Gaithersburg! I'm actually right down the road from you in Rockville, so you know the roads around here.
First, I've been driving a 6MT 335i for about 2.5 years, having had an '05 330i prior to that. I also drive the terrible commute from G'burg to Alexandria everyday. Even at that, I would never characterize my driving experience as "frustrated" with my 335i. It drives perfectly fine when not pushed, just drive it like any other car. No one says you have to floor it from every light. Throttle response is fine for when you want to drive "gently". I had a '10 528i recently as a loaner, and was totally underwhelmed by it. In fact, I started thinking what was the big deal about a 5 series, it seemed somewhat blah to me, and I was "shocked" when I accidentally reached the floor when merging onto 270. When I test drove the new MB E350, which I thought I would be interested in, the feeling was very similar -- basically adequate power for getting around town, nothing at all exciting. Maybe a manual tranny would be more fun, not sure.

Why you were underwhelmed when driving the 535i just escapes me -- I think maybe you were expecting a rocket ship. If you tried it again, you would realize, I think, it almost is a rocket ship. When I pulled out of the VOB lot on my first test drive of a Steptronic 535i, I was in a constant grin. I realized immediately there was no need for the 6MT, for which I know I would take a hit 3 years down the road when I sell it. The N55 engine, even in the heavier car, actually seemed faster and more responsive than my 335i. There was no turbo lag whatsoever, and the transmission performed beautifully.

Having driven 328i's, that 528i and my 335i, I will state there is no comparison whatsoever to the power band of the N54/N55 engine with the x28i engine. Full torque at 1400 rpm is no mean feat -- for me, there was never a time in my 335i when power did not come on effortlessly. No doubt the 550i has even more torque than the 535i, but "flogging" it at 50 would have resulted in a downshift as well I'm sure.

Anyway, you sound convinced with the 528i which is fine, but you really must have set yourself up for disappointment somehow as soon as you got into the 535i. Can't figure it out.
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  #46  
Old 08-29-2010, 07:44 PM
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I can't imagine any reason in the world that anyone would prefer a 528 over a 535. The slower car is better sorted out? Seems more balanced? I don't want to rain on anyone's parade, but just because you're in stop and go traffic all day, that doesn't mean your stuck there every weekend. Come on! What about contacting Dinan for a re map of the turbo 535? A re map of the turbo 335 boosts it up to 380 hp. Now you've got a 535 with almost the same power of a 550. Still prefer the 528?
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  #47  
Old 08-30-2010, 03:28 AM
pony_trekker pony_trekker is offline
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I can't imagine any reason in the world that anyone would prefer a 528 over a 535.
1. I don't like sitting on the road dead while BMW figures out the fuel pump.

2. I like having a driver's license which is tough enough to have with a NA engine.
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  #48  
Old 08-30-2010, 05:01 AM
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Even though the car is slower I prefer the 528 over the 535 and its not because of the price. Its for the following reasons: the steering feel is better, the engine is normally aspirated vs turbo (one less thing that can breakdown...if the turbo goes you are looking at one very expensive repair if you car is out of warranty...if you lease/don't plan to keep the car for a long time then this is not a factor), better fuel mileage (a factor for me because I drive over 20000 miles/year but this may not apply to others), and for me the car is quick enough. If I were looking at a faster car I would skip the 535 and go straight for the 550 for about 10 grand more. IMHO I feel that the 535 the "bastard child" when looking at the 528, 535 and 550 although I'm sure will be the best seller of the 5 series.
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Old 08-30-2010, 05:17 AM
kim987s kim987s is offline
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Another point to consider...I'm not entirely sure whether or not the 528 I tested had the Dynamic Handling Package/Electronic Damping Control (this is optional on the 528 but is standard on the 535). The two cars I tested definitely had the sport package (and both were set on "sport"). Because coming from a Porsche there is a definite difference between how a car "feels" on Porsche's version of Electronic Damping Control...it's called PASM (porsche active suspension management). I'm not saying which one (PASM or not PASM) is the better car but the cars feel subtlely different on the road (it depends on what you prefer). With a Porsche as with the BMW changing the tire size and then whether or not you have electronic stability control on your car also makes a big difference as well. On my Porsche I have the larger sized tires and it felt better with PASM, with smaller tires I perferred the standard setup without PASM.
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Old 08-30-2010, 08:08 AM
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markl53 markl53 is online now
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Mein Auto: 2011 535i
Quote:
Originally Posted by kim987s View Post
Even though the car is slower I prefer the 528 over the 535 and its not because of the price. Its for the following reasons: the steering feel is better
I'm still waiting for an explanation as to why the steering feel of a 528i would differ significantly from that of a 535i, assuming both have the same handling packages and are driven with the same settings. The 528i will sport would have 18" tires and the 535i would have 19". You seem to be saying that perhaps the 18" tires gave a better overall feel?

Quote:
If I were looking at a faster car I would skip the 535 and go straight for the 550 for about 10 grand more. IMHO I feel that the 535 the "bastard child" when looking at the 528, 535 and 550 although I'm sure will be the best seller of the 5 series.
To me, that's a strange way to go. Why simply spend $10K more for "the ultimate" and skip probably the best of all worlds, the middle of the pack 535i? Quite the contrary, I think the 528i exists for those who want to get into a 5 and have to cut somewhere to make it happen. With its 17" standard tires, non-Xenon, etc., incomplete DHP package content, it's the "stripper" of the bunch, the "wannabe", etc. Can't even get the 6MT with it, for those who are more serious drivers. That's my view anyway.

And from your subsequent response:
Quote:
Another point to consider...I'm not entirely sure whether or not the 528 I tested had the Dynamic Handling Package/Electronic Damping Control (this is optional on the 528 but is standard on the 535). The two cars I tested definitely had the sport package (and both were set on "sport").
Neither the 528i nor 535i have the Dynamic Handling Package standard. This is the core package of the actual "sport" setup. In fact, the DHP on the 528i is limited to only electronic damping control. It does not include the additional DHP features of active roll stabilization and adaptive drive found one the 535i and 550i packages.
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Last edited by markl53; 08-30-2010 at 08:10 AM.
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