Welcome to Bimmerfest -- The #1 Online Community for BMW related information! Please enjoy the discussion forums below and share your experiences with the 200,000 current, new and past BMW owners. The forums are broken out by car model and into other special interest sections such as BMW European Delivery and a special forum to voice your questions to the many BMW dealers on the site to assist our members!

Please follow the links below to help get you started!

Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 5 Series > E60 (2004 - 2010)

E60 (2004 - 2010)
BMW 5-Series (E60 chassis) was first seen in the Unites States in the fall of 2003 with a 2004 Model Year designation. The E60 is now available as a 528i, 528xi, 535i, 535xi, 550i and a 535xi sports wagon! -- View the E60 Wiki

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 11-21-2014, 10:20 AM
Willco Willco is offline
Registered User
Location: New York
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 9
Mein Auto: 535XI
Over Heated

My 2008 535XI over heated this morning. had to stop several times between my commute to work. Checked coolant levels and it was fine. Any suggestions? P.S today temperature is just above freezing.
Thanks
Reply With Quote
Advertisement
  #2  
Old 11-21-2014, 10:31 AM
banglenot banglenot is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Ft. Lauderdale and Connecticut
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,854
Mein Auto: 2007 530
Yellow then red Idrive warning?

Your water pump failed or is failing.

Tow it to a shop and have it replaced.
__________________

2007 530I
2003 325XI (gone)
2004 530I (gone)
2001 530I (gone)

BMW CCA Member 10+ Years
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 11-21-2014, 10:37 AM
Willco Willco is offline
Registered User
Location: New York
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 9
Mein Auto: 535XI
How about the thermostat?
Thanks
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 11-21-2014, 10:53 AM
banglenot banglenot is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Ft. Lauderdale and Connecticut
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,854
Mein Auto: 2007 530
Quote:
Originally Posted by Willco View Post
How about the thermostat?
Thanks
Thermostat is usually pretty stable, though always possible. Did you get the warnings above, and did the fan speed increase?
__________________

2007 530I
2003 325XI (gone)
2004 530I (gone)
2001 530I (gone)

BMW CCA Member 10+ Years
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 11-21-2014, 11:44 AM
Willco Willco is offline
Registered User
Location: New York
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 9
Mein Auto: 535XI
Yes got all the warning and fan speed did increase. at my local shop now.
thanks
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 11-22-2014, 07:07 AM
banglenot banglenot is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Ft. Lauderdale and Connecticut
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,854
Mein Auto: 2007 530
Quote:
Originally Posted by Willco View Post
Yes got all the warning and fan speed did increase. at my local shop now.
thanks
Pump. Good luck. Note that the parts are about $450 and should be no more than 3 hours labor, even for an amateur shadetree mechanic. Not in any way a hard job. Fair price $700-800 for a shop. Ripoffs quoted up to $1300 (!). Don't let them rip you off.
__________________

2007 530I
2003 325XI (gone)
2004 530I (gone)
2001 530I (gone)

BMW CCA Member 10+ Years

Last edited by banglenot; 11-22-2014 at 07:08 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 11-22-2014, 07:24 AM
Willco Willco is offline
Registered User
Location: New York
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 9
Mein Auto: 535XI
Replacing water pump today. thanks for the heads up!
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 11-22-2014, 12:25 PM
pcy pcy is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Boston
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,628
Mein Auto: '06 530i, '07 C280, ML320
Willco, you are in good hands with banglenot.

The only thing I'd suggest is that go ahead and replace thermostat as well. You will only be paying the part price, labor is almost the same.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 11-22-2014, 01:17 PM
Willco Willco is offline
Registered User
Location: New York
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 9
Mein Auto: 535XI
Thanks guys!
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 11-22-2014, 02:34 PM
toga94m toga94m is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Upstate NY
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 107
Mein Auto: 2006 530xiT
And the followup question for the benefit of the group is, "what's the mileage on your car?" My factory pump made it to 127k miles (on an '06 530xiT) which seems to be higher than average.
__________________
2006 530xiT 6MT - 128k miles - 3rd owner - sport & cold packages
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 11-22-2014, 02:44 PM
Willco Willco is offline
Registered User
Location: New York
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 9
Mein Auto: 535XI
61K which what I hear is early for the pump to go bad
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 11-22-2014, 04:05 PM
pcy pcy is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Boston
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,628
Mein Auto: '06 530i, '07 C280, ML320
At 50K miles, water pump was replaced on my car (by the previous owner). I replaced the water pump at 110K miles as a preventive maintenance.
I'd rather install a new pump have a peace of mind.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 11-22-2014, 08:51 PM
legend700's Avatar
legend700 legend700 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: SC
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 601
Mein Auto: 2008 535i
Some general information about BMW coolant systems, quoted from Mike Miller's Lifetime Maintenance Schedule v03.13:

"Copyright © 2013 by Drive Wheels, LLC, all rights reserved.

WARNING: NEITHER THE COPYRIGHT HOLDER NOR THE AUTHOR MAKES ANY WARRANTIES,
EXPRESS, IMPLIED OR OTHERWISE, THAT THE INFORMATION, PROCEDURE(S) AND/OR OPINION(S) IN THIS
ARTICLE ARE FREE OF ERRORS OR OMISSIONS, ACCURATE OR COMPLETE. THE COPYRIGHT HOLDER AND
AUTHOR EXPRESSLY DISCLAIM THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND OF FITNESS FOR A
PARTICULAR PURPOSE, EVEN IF THE COPYRIGHT HOLDER AND/OR AUTHOR HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF A
PARTICULAR PURPOSE AND EVEN IF A PARTICULAR PURPOSE IS INDICATED IN THE ARTICLE. THE
COPYRIGHT HOLDER AND AUTHOR ALSO DISCLAIM ALL LIABILITY FOR DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL
OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES THAT RESULT FROM ANY USE OF THE EXAMPLES, INSTRUCTIONS,
OPINIONS OR OTHER INFORMATION IN THIS ARTICLE. BMW HAS NOT REVIEWED OR ENDORSED THIS
ARTICLE IN ANY WAY WHATSOEVER. THIS ARTICLE, THE COPYRIGHT HOLDER AND THE AUTHOR DO NOT
ADVISE OR ADVOCATE DO-IT-YOURSELF MAINTENANCE OR REPAIRS. PEOPLE WHO WORK ON MOTOR
VEHICLES ASSUME THE RISK OF INJURY OR DEATH. READERS OF THIS DOCUMENT WHO, DESPITE THIS
WARNING, ENGAGE IN DO-IT-YOURSELF MAINTENANCE OR REPAIRS, DO SO ENTIRELY AT THEIR OWN
RISK AND HEREBY RELEASE AND HOLD HARMLESS THE COPYRIGHT HOLDER AND AUTHOR FROM ANY
AND ALL CLAIMS WHATSOEVER.


Does your BMW have the problematic cooling system parts?

The S54 and S62 M engines do not seem to suffer from premature cooling system
failures absent racing (including driving schools). It’s hard to tell with the V12s since
they’re so rare; same with the S65 and S85.

The N-series engines have electric water pumps and do not seem to suffer the sort of
regular and systematic cooling system failures that led me to recommend replacing the
entire system on the above engines as a preventive measure. If your BMW is a 2006 or
newer and not an E46, then you’ve got an N-series engine.

The word from dealership technicians is that N Series engines will go into limp home
mode if the coolant begins to actually overheat for whatever reason, including electric
water pump failure, and they will actually shut down the engine if it actually overheats. I
would place “moderate” faith in this advice, because the ECU can be programmed and
reprogrammed for reasons that are unknowable to me.

I’m told electric water pumps are not life of the car parts either, and they cost a great deal
more than mechanical water pumps. The difference that militates against recommending
preventive replacement of electric water pumps is that, as of this writing, engines have
not been known to melt down because if it, thanks to limp home mode. Finally, electric
water pump service life is tied more closely to hours in service rather than mileage.
The M42 and M44 BMW four-cylinder engines do not have the consistent premature
failure rate of cooling system parts that would lead me to recommend preventive cooling
system replacement. This doesn't mean they last forever. I would say if you've got
150,000 miles on the water pump, thermostat, radiator and expansion tank then you might
want to think about preventive replacement if you're going to keep the car.
Cooling System Preventive Maintenance Not Recommended for N-Series Engines
N-Series Engine Water Pumps are electrical and wholly different from the notoriously
problematic water pump of yore. That doesn't mean they last forever, though, and it is
several times more expensive. The thing with an electric water pump is that mileage is
less a factor that total running time; the electric motor in the pump is what wears out, and
it is running all the time the engine is running. If the car sits in traffic a lot, you may get
fewer miles out of an electrical water pump than someone who doesn't sit in traffic, i.e., a
rural BMW owner.

This is different from a mechanical water pump, where the standard failure mode is
bearing failure.

I do not recommend preventive replacement of the electrical water pump due to cost, and
also because there is less chance of engine melt-down than was the case in the past. Once
the electrical water pump starts to go bad the engine will go into limp home mode. This
enables you to get to the shop before engine meltdown. The older M50-family six
cylinder engines and M60-family V-8 engines didn't go into limp home mode. The water
pump failed and then you literally had seconds to shut down the engine before meltdown.
That is what prompted me to recommend preventive replacement of those water pumps.
If the coolant "really starts to overheat" on the N-series engines, the ECU will shut off the
engine. At that point you've got a break-down. So, if the engine goes into limp home
mode and you get a coolant temperature warning in the onboard computer, it's time to
pull off the highway and get the car to a BMW shop, dealer or independent.

Some urbanites fret about limp-home mode because they think it's dangerous. I can see
circumstances where that may be the case in a major metropolitan area but in reality it's
no different than any other car problem you may have that impairs forward motion.
People like me who drive old cars deal with it all the time. I see their point, but one can
only be “so safe” on the crowded highways around a big city; ultimately it comes down
to that lifestyle or economic choice."

Copyright © 2013 by Drive Wheels, LLC, all rights reserved.
__________________

2008 535i Monaco Blue
PP, SP, SAT w/paddles, ARS, CA, L7,
NAV, PDC, Heated F Seats, SIRIUS,
iPod+Aux, Bamboo Anthracite Trim,
Gray Dakota Leather
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 11-23-2014, 07:03 AM
banglenot banglenot is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Ft. Lauderdale and Connecticut
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,854
Mein Auto: 2007 530
Legend,

Usually I agree that Mike Miller is gospel advice. But, in this case I have to take issue with "limp home mode".

Some seem to get that -- but for most who've posted here the Pump fails completely, all at once. Goes from "limp home" in yellow, to "stop and rip up all the money in your wallet" in red, in about 20 seconds.

Not saying he's wrong, because those who get to limp home are lucky. But driving on a zero circulation pump is not something I recommend anyone do. If it's red, it's a tow.
__________________

2007 530I
2003 325XI (gone)
2004 530I (gone)
2001 530I (gone)

BMW CCA Member 10+ Years

Last edited by banglenot; 11-23-2014 at 07:10 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 11-23-2014, 07:12 AM
banglenot banglenot is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Ft. Lauderdale and Connecticut
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,854
Mein Auto: 2007 530
Quote:
Originally Posted by Willco View Post
61K which what I hear is early for the pump to go bad
Been a very wide range: I've seen 50 to 120K as failures on this board.
__________________

2007 530I
2003 325XI (gone)
2004 530I (gone)
2001 530I (gone)

BMW CCA Member 10+ Years
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 11-23-2014, 07:46 AM
legend700's Avatar
legend700 legend700 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: SC
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 601
Mein Auto: 2008 535i
Quote:
Originally Posted by banglenot View Post
Legend,

Usually I agree that Mike Miller is gospel advice. But, in this case I have to take issue with "limp home mode".

Some seem to get that -- but for most who've posted here the Pump fails completely, all at once. Goes from "limp home" in yellow, to "stop and rip up all the money in your wallet" in red, in about 20 seconds.

Not saying he's wrong, because those who get to limp home are lucky. But driving on a zero circulation pump is not something I recommend anyone do. If it's red, it's a tow.
I am with you on that.

The main point I am taking away from Mike Miller's comments is, that engines with a failing electric water pump do not self-destruct like can be the case with other engines. The ECU will totally shut down the engine before that can happen, but also warns that ECU re-programming (for whatever reason) could defeat that.

In my case, I noticed a noisy water pump while running the bleeding procedure after coolant replacement. My Indy advised to let it go and wait until the pump fails, especially since the car had only about 35K miles on it. He would get me wherever I would be when the time comes. Since I take extended road trips from time to time, I decided to have the pump replaced with a new, updated OEM version at that time anyway.

I am at 50K miles now and intend to keep this car until the wheels fall off. My yearly mileage is only about 7K miles and that includes a 3 to 4K miles road trip or two shorter ones.
__________________

2008 535i Monaco Blue
PP, SP, SAT w/paddles, ARS, CA, L7,
NAV, PDC, Heated F Seats, SIRIUS,
iPod+Aux, Bamboo Anthracite Trim,
Gray Dakota Leather
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 11-23-2014, 10:40 AM
98PoleCat's Avatar
98PoleCat 98PoleCat is online now
Master of my domain
Location: KC
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 291
Mein Auto: 2007 550i
Quote:
Originally Posted by banglenot View Post
Legend,

Usually I agree that Mike Miller is gospel advice. But, in this case I have to take issue with "limp home mode".

Some seem to get that -- but for most who've posted here the Pump fails completely, all at once. Goes from "limp home" in yellow, to "stop and rip up all the money in your wallet" in red, in about 20 seconds.

Not saying he's wrong, because those who get to limp home are lucky. But driving on a zero circulation pump is not something I recommend anyone do. If it's red, it's a tow.

I actually got no warnings when my pump failed. It was just "whirring" louder than normal, so I had my mechanic check it. Sounds like it's a good thing I caught I early enough.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 11-23-2014, 04:50 PM
pcy pcy is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Boston
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,628
Mein Auto: '06 530i, '07 C280, ML320
With mechanical water pump, I can actually track the degradation of the pump via some symptoms - seepage from the weep hole, wobble on the shaft/pulley, noise when you spin the pulley, etc.
With electric water pump, controller can fail anytime with little or no warning.

In theory, electric water pump is supposed to be better because you can control the pump regardless of the engine speed.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 11-23-2014, 10:21 PM
bimmerfan52 bimmerfan52 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Arizona
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 954
Mein Auto: 545i
Strongly suggest you change your transmission fluid.

Heat is the number one enemy of trans fluid, and overheating the engine will overheat the trans fluid due to the strong coupling between the engine and transmission. The trans fluid will no longer do its job well.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 11-24-2014, 05:22 AM
banglenot banglenot is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Ft. Lauderdale and Connecticut
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,854
Mein Auto: 2007 530
Quote:
Originally Posted by 98PoleCat View Post
I actually got no warnings when my pump failed. It was just "whirring" louder than normal, so I had my mechanic check it. Sounds like it's a good thing I caught I early enough.
Your 550 is mechanical. Usually that's because the damn plastic impellers fail (at least they did on the M54 -- I don't know if your engine uses steel impellers). This discussion is generally about the electric pumps -- just fyi so you know the context.
__________________

2007 530I
2003 325XI (gone)
2004 530I (gone)
2001 530I (gone)

BMW CCA Member 10+ Years
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 11-24-2014, 12:01 PM
98PoleCat's Avatar
98PoleCat 98PoleCat is online now
Master of my domain
Location: KC
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 291
Mein Auto: 2007 550i
Quote:
Originally Posted by banglenot View Post
Your 550 is mechanical. Usually that's because the damn plastic impellers fail (at least they did on the M54 -- I don't know if your engine uses steel impellers). This discussion is generally about the electric pumps -- just fyi so you know the context.
Good call. Sorry for the confusion.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Forum Navigation
Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 5 Series > E60 (2004 - 2010)
Today's Posts Search
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On



Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 06:15 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
© 2001-2011 performanceIX, Inc. All Rights Reserved .: guidelines .:. privacy .:. terms