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7 Series - E65 / E66 (2002 - 2008)
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  #1  
Old 03-05-2014, 04:30 PM
tbsbmw tbsbmw is offline
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Car runs well, dies after 10-15 minutes

I'm going to try and keep this as short as possible. I've owned my 2005 745LI since May of 2013 and it has always runs fine. 4 months ago the battery was bad , I had it tested at an Interstate store and they replaced it for free. I registered it with INPA. 3.5 months later the car gets a reduced power engine problem message and leaves me stranded 3x. Each time it would run ok for a while and then just quit and would crank but not restart. If I let it sit for about 30 minutes it would be good for a short drive and then die and the cycle would repeat itself. I had it towed to a shop. The alt was only putting out 9v so they replaced that, the radiator cooling fan wasn't working at all so they replaced that. The car still has the starts up and runs fine for 10-15 minutes and dies and won't restart problem. The shop then replaced the IVM, same problem. The shop found the fan inside the car that cools the DME and IVM too I guess was not working, they replaced that. My car is still jacked. They said the DME was quite hot to the touch and that it smells like toasted electronics. Does this sound like a DME problem? I'm inclined to say ya but confirmation from the forum would be great backup. If it is the DME what are my options for replacing it or having it repaired? I gather from reading the forum if I go the used route I need the DME, CAS, and Fob all from a donor car. Is that correct? If I swap those three is there any reprogramming involved I will be able to do with INPA? Thanks in advance for any help, this is my only car right now and I need it back on the road.
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  #2  
Old 03-05-2014, 04:46 PM
tbsbmw tbsbmw is offline
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my car has comfort access if that makes a difference to what used parts i look for
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  #3  
Old 03-05-2014, 07:00 PM
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You could probably get the whole DME reprogrammed to your car without the additional components, but it does sound like a bad DME since it runs the whole car.

Furthermore did you get an AGM battery from Interstate?
What is the operating voltage with the car on?
Did the shop check the car for a parasitic battery draw when the car is off?
Is the car recording any faults before it shuts off?
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  #4  
Old 03-06-2014, 05:38 AM
tbsbmw tbsbmw is offline
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The car had an interstate lead acid battery in it that was still under the 3? yr full replacement warranty by 1 month so they replaced it with the same. I believe the shop said new alternator was showing 14.5v , I don't think so on the parasitic check - what would that indicate if that was going on? I believe it had a dme fan fault that is now cleared and only remaining code or codes point to the DME. One other thing I just remembered - within the past month my car has occasionally remained on electrically long after I parked it. I noticed that after I got home and I got a call on my mobile that it was still attaching to the bluetooth in my car after I'd been home , sometimes quite a while after I got home.
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  #5  
Old 03-06-2014, 06:28 AM
dvanlare dvanlare is online now
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I'm not completely sure on the DME but it sounds plausible it could be that.

I did want to comment on a few of the other things you mentioned.

1. If you have a lead acid battery now it is really important that you make sure someone with proper coding experience has programed the power module for this. A battery registration is not sufficient to change from AGM to lead acid. This could be the reason that your initial battery failed. The battery charging cycle is different for AGM vs. lead acid and the power module controls this.

2. If you have the BTUM module for Bluetooth connection to the car then it is normal to have the car pick up calls for up to an hour after you park the car in the garage. Locking the car while in the garage seems to help the BTUM disconnect sooner. I had my office about 20 feet from my garage and I constantly had the car grabbing my phone calls when I was in the house. This is one of the reasons I did the Bluetooth TCUM upgrade.
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  #6  
Old 03-06-2014, 07:52 AM
new760Liowner new760Liowner is offline
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Heat Issue

The fact that it runs fine up to 10-15 minutes indicates it is a heat issue. Maybe try running the car in your driveway with the hood up and cooling the DME to see if it lasts longer than 15 minutes with active cooling?
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  #7  
Old 03-06-2014, 09:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbsbmw View Post
The car had an interstate lead acid battery in it that was still under the 3? yr full replacement warranty by 1 month so they replaced it with the same. I believe the shop said new alternator was showing 14.5v , I don't think so on the parasitic check - what would that indicate if that was going on? I believe it had a dme fan fault that is now cleared and only remaining code or codes point to the DME. One other thing I just remembered - within the past month my car has occasionally remained on electrically long after I parked it. I noticed that after I got home and I got a call on my mobile that it was still attaching to the bluetooth in my car after I'd been home , sometimes quite a while after I got home.
I believe you killed your car. I hate to say that but it's the truth. The electronics in the car are designed to NEVER GO ABOVE 13.8V and going over that can fry electronics.

You put in a lead acid battery which charges at 14.4V and is designed for a different application. The 7-series and newer BMW's use a computer to monitor an AGM battery for max life, these batteries are charged at 13.8V and have to be constantly regulated to ensure that the car doesn't kill any electronics.

Get an AGM battery, get it registered and go to a shop that will diagnose the issues properly.
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  #8  
Old 03-06-2014, 09:54 AM
tbsbmw tbsbmw is offline
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[QUOTE=csmeance;8192362]I believe you killed your car....

I don't yet see how this is possible when the car ran fine for 35 months on the previous lead acid battery, and an additional 3 months on the same brand/model replacement battery, which I registered with INPA. So we have 38 total months of problem free service running the Interstate lead acid battery.
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  #9  
Old 03-06-2014, 10:19 AM
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csmeance csmeance is offline
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[QUOTE=tbsbmw;8192414]
Quote:
Originally Posted by csmeance View Post
I believe you killed your car....

I don't yet see how this is possible when the car ran fine for 35 months on the previous lead acid battery, and an additional 3 months on the same brand/model replacement battery, which I registered with INPA. So we have 38 total months of problem free service running the Interstate lead acid battery.
When your battery was new it could start the car no problem and it ran at 13.8V. After some time of driving the battery discharges and needs to be charged. 24-30 months later the battery only has 50% of the power and the alternator is now running at 14.4 or 14.5V to charge it so it can start the car the next time you use it. Like I said the electronics are meant to run at 13.8V, not at a higher 14.4V. You said it yourself, the alternator was only putting out 9V, it was over-run trying to charge the lead acid battery when it expected an AGM battery.

Take an LED that's rated for 5V and send it 7V, after a few minutes it'll die. Same goes with electronics, you are oversupplying power and frying electronics, and we all know how sensitive the 7 is in regards to startup voltage and battery issues.

Get the right battery and go from there; you can't diagnose a mystery problem without looking at some easy places to start.
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Last edited by csmeance; 03-06-2014 at 10:20 AM.
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  #10  
Old 03-06-2014, 05:58 PM
tbsbmw tbsbmw is offline
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So for the sake of getting my car back on the road as quickly and cheaply as possible let's assume I put an AGM in there and the problem persists. It seems my options remain doing the dme,cas,key swap from a donor car or getting a dme from rpm for $899 . Am I missing any other options? The DME in my car is bmw part #7552310 , bosch #0261209020 . According to RPM it could have come with a 0261209001, 0261209010, or 0261209020 . I still don't have a good idea of what model years if any other than 2005 will fit my car .
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  #11  
Old 03-06-2014, 06:05 PM
White94RX White94RX is offline
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Have you replaced the IVM? I've seen them cause engines to stall. Its a power/relay box with fuses that powers nearly everything on the engine.
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  #12  
Old 03-06-2014, 06:09 PM
tbsbmw tbsbmw is offline
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hi , yes the shop installed a new ivm and it didn't change anything , wish it had


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  #13  
Old 03-07-2014, 06:11 AM
tbsbmw tbsbmw is offline
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does the dme control the dynamic drive ? another symptom I remembered last night is that after idling for 10 minutes or so the car would say dynamic drive inactive on the dash
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  #14  
Old 03-07-2014, 06:33 AM
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Have you checked the SBSR module

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  #15  
Old 03-07-2014, 11:23 PM
tbsbmw tbsbmw is offline
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i asked the shop today and they said they have checked the sbsr
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  #16  
Old 03-09-2014, 10:36 PM
tbsbmw tbsbmw is offline
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i think i'm gonna take the plunge this week and order a new dme from rpm , i have read that the autologic tool can align the cas and dme , can i accomplish the same with inpa or ncsexpert ?
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  #17  
Old 03-12-2014, 08:28 PM
tbsbmw tbsbmw is offline
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update - i took the $950 plunge and bought a dme from rpm, it arrived and was synced to the CAS and the car fired right up and ran well for a while. Then it overheated and the shop noticed the brand new elec radiator fan wasn't working even with the ac on. The car sat at the shop overnight and when they started it this morning it got the original error message again , generator fault and limp mode engine reduced power drive moderately, with an occasional surging/fluctuating idle up and down up and down , etc . I don't know wtf is up with my car at this point. It has a new dme, new ivm, new alternator, and a new fan. The new fan tests and runs as it should via inpa and the garages test equipment so it's not the fan itself. I'm $1800 deep out of pocket and the warranty has covered about $1400 . I mentioned to the shop that the battery has been going low on me - like 50% charged - so they put a charger on it later today. Some 2+ hours later the alt is putting around 14v and other test points on the car (i'm not sure which) are only reading 12v. I've no idea if this is a problem. As a last ditch effort the shop is replacing the newish lead acid interstate battery with an agm tomorrow, re-registering the battery, and will see how the car behaves after that. If anyone reads this and thinks of anything other parts that may be suspect please reply. One thing I just remembered , the dme fault codes are gone with the new dme in the car.
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  #18  
Old 03-13-2014, 06:02 AM
new760Liowner new760Liowner is offline
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With the car charged up, try and track the battery voltage up until it dies. Also take a battery voltage before starting the car and after it dies and compare; kind of sounds like something is drawing a lot of current and draining battery.


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  #19  
Old 03-13-2014, 07:48 AM
crazyrobbery crazyrobbery is offline
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overheating

when my m5 was overheating i was loosing my mind. Changed thermostat, fan clutch and water pump... car still over heated

Turned out the coolant temp sensor located on the lower rad hose was bad and it also controls aux fan. These cars cannot run with out the aid of the aux fan in warm conditions.

Part #: 13621433077 (13-62-1-433-077)

Hope this helps.

-Robbery
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  #20  
Old 03-13-2014, 06:55 PM
HerbP HerbP is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbsbmw View Post
does the dme control the dynamic drive ? another symptom I remembered last night is that after idling for 10 minutes or so the car would say dynamic drive inactive on the dash
If your Dynamic Drive is setting an alarm after ten minutes, it sounds like the voltage regulator is bad. At the point that the warning goes off, take a VOM and check the voltage. If the voltage is above 14.4 volts ( most likely higher than 15.5 volts, the regulator is not controlling the voltage output level. All modules are wired in parallel, at must stay at 5 volts. Once the 5 volts has been exceeded, the modules go into protect mode. If you have DIS, you can run a quick test, then view the results on the second page. If you see an over voltage reading at the bottom of the page, you have found part of your problem. Dealers will charge you a fortune looking for this, & most do not find it. It sound like you have had multiple problems, that someone is throwing parts at? I chased this problem for 6 months before noticing it at the bottom of the page. I ran the test plan for the alternator, & confirmed the problem. Read the thread below for more info.

Good Luck!

I am not telling to replace the voltage regulator, until you confirm the result. I hope this might help!

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...-Drive-Warning
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  #21  
Old 03-16-2014, 10:19 AM
tbsbmw tbsbmw is offline
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another update , putting a new agm battery in and registering it - all done at the shop - did not resolve the problems . It is still going into reduced engine power limp mode . i picked up a used power module this weekend , the one back by the battery, and am going to see if replacing that has any positive effects , after that I guess its off to the dealer. And yes herb the shop has been sort of throwing parts at the problem but all the parts that have been replaced were throwing errors that went away after they were swapped out. Since I am having the same electrical / running problem I started out with prior to installing a new alt, ivm, battery, and elec cooling fan I'm back to wondering if any of those replacements parts were bad off the shelf . Very frustrating issue .
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  #22  
Old 03-17-2014, 11:05 PM
tbsbmw tbsbmw is offline
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happy to send an update that after replacing the trunk mounted power module the car is back to normal , they are ~$500 at the dealer , i got one used from a junkyard from a 2003 745li ( i have a 2005 745li) for $85, they didn't know what it was and all i said was 'i need that thing by the battery under the fuses' , it had to be programmed but it did the trick . for anyone reading this in the future in need of a power module here is the list of compatible parts i used :

BMW 7 Series (E23,E32,E38,E65,E66,F01,F02) 745i Automatic Sedan 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005

BMW 7 Series (E23,E32,E38,E65,E66,F01,F02) 745Li Automatic Sedan 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005

BMW 7 Series (E23,E32,E38,E65,E66,F01,F02) 750i Automatic Sedan 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009

BMW 7 Series (E23,E32,E38,E65,E66,F01,F02) 750Li Automatic Sedan 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009

BMW 7 Series (E23,E32,E38,E65,E66,F01,F02) 760i Automatic Sedan 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007

BMW 7 Series (E23,E32,E38,E65,E66,F01,F02) 760Li Automatic Sedan 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009

BMW 7 Series (E23,E32,E38,E65,E66,F01,F02) ALPINA B7 Automatic Sedan 2006, 2007, 2008

And for anyone reading this with weird electrical problems affecting driveability on their 7 series here's what I suggest from my 3 weeks of pain in the shop and 40+ hours of forum searching. I specified driveability because everything else electrical on my car was normal, radio, nav, lights, locks, windows, etc . If you have issues with those systems my suggestions may not apply to your situation.

1. check and or replace your battery with an AGM , not a lead acid battery . don't question it just do it
1a. don't jumpstart your car
1b. don't use your car to jumpstart someone else
1c. don't charge your battery with anything other than a low voltage battery tender trickle charger unless the battery cables are disconnected
2. get the battery registered immediately, for me INPA did not work and the shop's tool did , i may not have been using inpa correctly
3. ensure that your dme & ivm cooling fan are working (mine was not and my dme smelled burnt)
4. check alternator output
5. replace ivm
6. replace power module and have it programmed
7. replace dme ( i got mine from rpm motorsport , they are great to work with and from all of my searching appear to be the only place on the planet other than the dealer that can program a new dme to your cars vin)
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  #23  
Old 03-18-2014, 12:39 PM
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I'm glad that you got this issue fixed! Do you have a part number for the part that was replaced so we can have it in case someone searches for it?
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  #24  
Old 03-18-2014, 01:25 PM
chairjordan chairjordan is offline
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Where are the fuse boxes in a 2002 745i??? Anybody Click image for larger version

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  #25  
Old 03-18-2014, 02:07 PM
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In glove box look carefully for "drop down door" and in trunk "passenger side" little door.


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