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F10 / F11 (2011 - Current)
The new chapter in the highly successful story of the BMW 5 Series Sedan (F10) and wagon (F11)

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  #26  
Old 09-17-2010, 04:42 PM
brandonw brandonw is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gregb10 View Post
Wow, I didn't meant to spark such controversy.

Im furious at my dealer. I feel I am being cheated.

Im leasing my 3rd BMW and they are ripping me off.


Charging a disposition fee, $350.00 Really? After leasinga 3rd BMW

Charging me a purchase price of 63,776.88 for a car the shows at Edmunds for 61,730.

Cardsdirect.com shows an invoice price of $62,220. I think they account for the advertising fee. Even that seem hi but carsdirect.com shows a purchase price of $62,920 which is 700 over invoice.

Deal told me 680 over invoice but a purchase price of over 63k then has a separate line item for disposition fee and quoted me a higher lease payment than carsdirct.com

I should cancel my order and bring my business elsewhere,,, im pissed.

Full offer is as follows:

MSRP 67,175

Purchase Price $63,776.88
Disposition Fee $350
Acquisition Fee $105.00
Up front Taxes $2,722.17
Cap Cost reduction $2,000.00


Lease Payment 797.00

I have a lease spreadsheet and cant get it to match this number. Im doing something wrong.

Am I getting screwed here?
I am not sure why on your paperwork for your new lease why they have a disposition fee. That is billed from BMW (if I understand it correct) as the fee is theirs. Maybe if you didn't have a cash security deposit down, then maybe the dealer collects it and all fees. Not sure on that one. Acquisition fee at cost is $725, with the maximum markup of $200, $925. This is again, NOT a dealer fee, but one from BMWFS. Something is off.
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  #27  
Old 09-17-2010, 04:45 PM
attila316 attila316 is offline
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Disposition Fee is the fee you pay when you DON'T want to buy the car after your lease is over. It's listed on the fine print in your lease agreement. In other words, if you buy the car after your lease is over, you don't have to pay for the disposition fee but otherwise you have to. It's fairly standard from what I see in BMW lease so you are not being screwed.
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  #28  
Old 09-17-2010, 04:49 PM
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quackbury quackbury is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tunafish View Post
Could Quackbury do the same calculation with the current 3 yr T-bill yield of .75? Also, include the bank acquisition and disposition fees. Just curious.
Sure he could. At least 2 out of the 3. (Quack has never been charged a dispo fee, so no need for him to factor it in). Like I said above, HISTORICALLY there have been better uses of capital than sinking it into a DEPRECIATING asset. I think we can all agree today's yield curve is an anomaly, but let's play along.

Framing it the way you are asking, let's say Solstice and I each have $70,000 cash sitting in our respective pockets, and each get a $65,000 car. To make the math easy, let's assume we "invest" our funds in a non-interest bearing checking account, so we earn 0.00% instead of 0.7%

Solstice buys his car outright. He pays cash for the car, plus the sales tax. (Let's assume he has a $40,000 trade-in, so he only pays sales tax on $25,000. And for sh*ts and giggles let's assume his state's sales tax is 5.00%, so his total cost is $66,250. He's got $3,750 left in his checking account when he walks out of hte dealership.

OTOH I lease mine, pay the $775 acquisition fee, then lease payments of $800/month (including tax). 36 months from now I've spent $28,800 on lease payments, plus $775 on the acquisition fee = $29,575 total. I hand the dealer the keys and walk away. I've still got $40,425 in my checking account.

If Solstice can sell or trade his car for more than $36,675, he comes out ahead. ($36,675 plus $3,750 equals the $40,425 in my checking account). But he has to go through all the hassle of marketing the car. Assuming his time is worth something, you need to factor that in.

Now here's the kicker. It makes no difference to me what the market is for my car 36 months from now, as my residual is locked in. OTOH if folks don't want Solstice's car 3 years from now, he's SOL. (Know anyone who bought a Yukon Denali in 2006? Any idea what that truck was worth 3 years later? They lost their shirts! Even worse if they bought a Pontiac or Hummer).

To me, a QUANTIFIABLE monthly expense beats a crap shoot any day. YMMV.

EDIT: I left out any "other" costs out of the above - registration, property tax, etc. - as you're going to face those regardless of whether you lease or pay cash).
__________________


Current BMW's:
2014 328i Sport Wagon, Glacier / Black, ZSL, ZD2, ZD3, ZDH, ZLP, ZPP, ZTP, and H-K
2011 535xi M Sport TiAg / Black, ZPP, ZP2, ZCV, ZCW, ZDA, 2TB, 6NR, 465, 5DL, and a Partridge in a Pear Tree

Prior BMW's
2011 X5 35D
2008 ///M3 Vert
2008 X5 3.0
2007 X5 3.0
2006 X5 3.0
2006 550iA SP
2003 540iA M-Sport

Last edited by quackbury; 09-17-2010 at 04:51 PM.
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  #29  
Old 09-17-2010, 04:54 PM
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quackbury quackbury is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by attila316 View Post
Disposition Fee is the fee you pay when you DON'T want to buy the car after your lease is over. It's listed on the fine print in your lease agreement. In other words, if you buy the car after your lease is over, you don't have to pay for the disposition fee but otherwise you have to. It's fairly standard from what I see in BMW lease so you are not being screwed.
Actually, dispo fee is charged if you don't FINANCE OR LEASE ANY BMW within 6 months of your lease end. I have never purchased my existing car at lease end, yet I have never paid a dispo fee since I am always moving into my next BMW.
__________________


Current BMW's:
2014 328i Sport Wagon, Glacier / Black, ZSL, ZD2, ZD3, ZDH, ZLP, ZPP, ZTP, and H-K
2011 535xi M Sport TiAg / Black, ZPP, ZP2, ZCV, ZCW, ZDA, 2TB, 6NR, 465, 5DL, and a Partridge in a Pear Tree

Prior BMW's
2011 X5 35D
2008 ///M3 Vert
2008 X5 3.0
2007 X5 3.0
2006 X5 3.0
2006 550iA SP
2003 540iA M-Sport
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  #30  
Old 09-17-2010, 05:07 PM
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quackbury quackbury is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gregb10 View Post
Wow, I didn't meant to spark such controversy.

Im furious at my dealer. I feel I am being cheated.

Im leasing my 3rd BMW and they are ripping me off.


Charging a disposition fee, $350.00 Really? After leasinga 3rd BMW

Charging me a purchase price of 63,776.88 for a car the shows at Edmunds for 61,730.

Cardsdirect.com shows an invoice price of $62,220. I think they account for the advertising fee. Even that seem hi but carsdirect.com shows a purchase price of $62,920 which is 700 over invoice.

Deal told me 680 over invoice but a purchase price of over 63k then has a separate line item for disposition fee and quoted me a higher lease payment than carsdirct.com

I should cancel my order and bring my business elsewhere,,, im pissed.

Full offer is as follows:

MSRP 67,175

Purchase Price $63,776.88
Disposition Fee $350
Acquisition Fee $105.00
Up front Taxes $2,722.17
Cap Cost reduction $2,000.00


Lease Payment 797.00

I have a lease spreadsheet and cant get it to match this number. Im doing something wrong.

Am I getting screwed here?
Steady, young Skywalker. Lots of inconsistencies in your post.

Are you upset because you see a dispo fee on the lease-end statement for the car you are returning? If so, all you need to do is call the folks at BMWFS and tell them the VIN or production number of your new car. They will waive the dispo fee, no questions asked.

Or are you upset because you are seeing the dispo fee in the contract for your new BMW? Take a minute and read the fine print - the fee will ONLY be charged if you do not finance or lease a new BMW within 6 months of your new lease's ending. When you think it through, you will realize they have to put it in the contract - they have no way of knowing whether, 3 years from now, you will re-up with BMW or move to Audi.

Third, the invoice prices at Edmunds do NOT include the MACO and training fees. If you are quesitoning your dealer, have him or her show you the invoice print out from BMW.

Fourth, there is no such thing as a $105 acq. fee. BMWFS charges a flat $775. Your dealer can mark it up a max of $200. This is negotiable, but not below $775.

Fifth, cap cost reductions are almost always a really, really bad idea. MSD's are not. Do yourself a huge favor and research both terms (the BF Ask-a-Dealer forum is a great place to start).

Sixth, what is the breakdown of the "up front taxes" line item? Most states charge sales tax on the monthly payment, some (TX, NY and I forget which others) charge it up front on the entire sum of the payments. Make sure you understand where those numbers are coming from.

Finally, you need to plug the total "cap cost" into your lease calculator. You are not providing enough information in your post to determine what that is. Are you paying taxes, title, acq. fee and so on up front? (Together with your first monthly payment - and cap cost reduction, which you really want to avoid - these are often called your drive off costs). Or are these various fees being added to your cap cost and amortized over the term of your lease?
__________________


Current BMW's:
2014 328i Sport Wagon, Glacier / Black, ZSL, ZD2, ZD3, ZDH, ZLP, ZPP, ZTP, and H-K
2011 535xi M Sport TiAg / Black, ZPP, ZP2, ZCV, ZCW, ZDA, 2TB, 6NR, 465, 5DL, and a Partridge in a Pear Tree

Prior BMW's
2011 X5 35D
2008 ///M3 Vert
2008 X5 3.0
2007 X5 3.0
2006 X5 3.0
2006 550iA SP
2003 540iA M-Sport

Last edited by quackbury; 09-17-2010 at 05:15 PM.
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  #31  
Old 09-17-2010, 05:11 PM
attila316 attila316 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quackbury View Post
Actually, dispo fee is charged if you don't FINANCE OR LEASE ANY BMW within 6 months of your lease end. I have never purchased my existing car at lease end, yet I have never paid a dispo fee since I am always moving into my next BMW.
Makes sense. I think the fine print says if you don't buy the car but I can see how they would waive the disposition fee if you continue to finance or lease BMW.
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  #32  
Old 09-17-2010, 05:27 PM
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gregb10 gregb10 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quackbury View Post
Steady, young Skywalker. Lots of inconsistencies in your post.

Are you upset because you see a dispo fee on the lease-end statement for the car you are returning? If so, all you need to do is call the folks at BMWFS and tell them the VIN or production number of your new car. They will waive the dispo fee, no questions asked.

Or are you upset because you are seeing the dispo fee in the contract for your new BMW? Take a minute and read the fine print - the fee will ONLY be charged if you do not finance or lease a new BMW within 6 months of your new lease's ending. When you think it through, you will realize they have to put it in the contract - they have no way of knowing whether, 3 years from now, you will re-up with BMW or move to Audi.

Third, the invoice prices at Edmunds do NOT include the MACO and training fees. If you are quesitoning your dealer, have him or her show you the invoice print out from BMW.

Fourth, there is no such thing as a $105 acq. fee. BMWFS charges a flat $775. Your dealer can mark it up a max of $200. This is negotiable, but not below $775.

Fifth, cap cost reductions are almost always a really, really bad idea. MSD's are not. Do yourself a huge favor and research both terms (the BF Ask-a-Dealer forum is a great place to start).

Sixth, what is the breakdown of the "up front taxes" line item? Most states charge sales tax on the monthly payment, some (TX, NY and I forget which others) charge it up front on the entire sum of the payments. Make sure you understand where those numbers are coming from.

Finally, you need to plug the total "cap cost" into your lease calculator. You are not providing enough information in your post to determine what that is. Are you paying taxes, title, acq. fee and so on up front? (Together with your first monthly payment - and cap cost reduction, which you really want to avoid - these are often called your drive off costs). Or are these various fees being added to your cap cost and amortized over the term of your lease?
Thank for your response,,,, few things,,, yes, I made a mistake 725 aquisition fee,,, not 105

Here are better details.
36 monts,,, 10k miles a year
residual .62 money factor .00023
Payment Details:
MSRP $67,175.00
Sales Price $63,776.88
Disposition Fee $350.00

Due At Signing:
First month payment $797.00
Aquisition $725.00
Fees and insurance $105.00
Upfront Tax $2,722.17
Cap Cost reduction $2,000.00

I wanted the payment to be lower but I agree that I should consider msd.

I am in NY State and tax is upfront. Again,, I wanted to lower the lease payment so im paying it up front.

I might be misunderstadning the dispostion fee,,, entirely possible.

Deos this detail help? What are your thoughts on this deal?
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  #33  
Old 09-17-2010, 05:41 PM
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quackbury quackbury is offline
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Dealer is giving you the buy rate. Always a good sign.

Looks like you are getting the car for +/- $1,500 over invoice which is a reasonable deal for the F10. (X5 would be $1,000, 3 series would be $500).

My lease calculator gives me EXACTLY $797.00 as a payment, so nothing fishy going on.

Too bad you are not a BMWCCA member - the $1,000 rebate would be helpful.

The cap cost reduction is foolish. that money is GONE the minute you leave the dealership. If the car is stolen or totalled you will not get it back. Plus you are paying sales tax on it.

Rather than piss away $2,000, I would do 3 multiple security deposits, for a total cost of $2,550. You will get the $2,550 back at the end of the lease. The MSD's lower your MF, and you are getting about a 11% tax-freee ROR on the funds.

The monthly payment "my way" is $835.02. If the extra $37 a month is a deal killer, you shouldn't be leasing an F10.
__________________


Current BMW's:
2014 328i Sport Wagon, Glacier / Black, ZSL, ZD2, ZD3, ZDH, ZLP, ZPP, ZTP, and H-K
2011 535xi M Sport TiAg / Black, ZPP, ZP2, ZCV, ZCW, ZDA, 2TB, 6NR, 465, 5DL, and a Partridge in a Pear Tree

Prior BMW's
2011 X5 35D
2008 ///M3 Vert
2008 X5 3.0
2007 X5 3.0
2006 X5 3.0
2006 550iA SP
2003 540iA M-Sport
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  #34  
Old 09-17-2010, 05:43 PM
solstice solstice is offline
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"To me, a QUANTIFIABLE monthly expense beats a crap shoot any day. YMMV."
And to me, no monthly expense beats the obligaton of having one. To each his own.
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  #35  
Old 09-17-2010, 05:45 PM
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quackbury quackbury is offline
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And a bird in the hand beats a Reggie Bush. With or without the Heisman. You'd rather have the car, I'd rather have the cash. The very essence of YMMV
__________________


Current BMW's:
2014 328i Sport Wagon, Glacier / Black, ZSL, ZD2, ZD3, ZDH, ZLP, ZPP, ZTP, and H-K
2011 535xi M Sport TiAg / Black, ZPP, ZP2, ZCV, ZCW, ZDA, 2TB, 6NR, 465, 5DL, and a Partridge in a Pear Tree

Prior BMW's
2011 X5 35D
2008 ///M3 Vert
2008 X5 3.0
2007 X5 3.0
2006 X5 3.0
2006 550iA SP
2003 540iA M-Sport
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  #36  
Old 09-17-2010, 05:53 PM
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gregb10 gregb10 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quackbury View Post
Dealer is giving you the buy rate. Always a good sign.

Looks like you are getting the car for +/- $1,500 over invoice which is a reasonable deal for the F10. (X5 would be $1,000, 3 series would be $500).

My lease calculator gives me EXACTLY $797.00 as a payment, so nothing fishy going on.

Too bad you are not a BMWCCA member - the $1,000 rebate would be helpful.

The cap cost reduction is foolish. that money is GONE the minute you leave the dealership. If the car is stolen or totalled you will not get it back. Plus you are paying sales tax on it.

Rather than piss away $2,000, I would do 3 multiple security deposits, for a total cost of $2,550. You will get the $2,550 back at the end of the lease. The MSD's lower your MF, and you are getting about a 11% tax-freee ROR on the funds.

The monthly payment "my way" is $835.02. If the extra $37 a month is a deal killer, you shouldn't be leasing an F10.
Thanks for your reponse and advice.

$37.00 is not a deal killer, I just had a specific number in mind. Your advice on MSD is better than anything my dealer is telling me. I just leanred of this option recently.

I repsectfully disagree that 1,500 over invoice is fair when Im leasing my third car from the same dealer and the dealer is stating its 680 over invoice. I jsut want them to be honest with me,, again, unless im missing something.

Would you be willing to email me you leasing calculator? Would be grealty apreciated. Im PM you my private email.

BTW, What is BMWCCA?

Thanks again.
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  #37  
Old 09-17-2010, 06:22 PM
solstice solstice is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quackbury View Post
And a bird in the hand beats a Reggie Bush. With or without the Heisman. You'd rather have the car, I'd rather have the cash. The very essence of YMMV
Cash is no problem, I got it. Partly due to my save before buying philosophy. It works best for me but I'm sure there are other ways that works better for others like yourself. To each his own but to say that I am out of cash just because I buy a car is not even close to be true.
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  #38  
Old 09-17-2010, 06:26 PM
Ronsell Ronsell is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quackbury View Post
And a bird in the hand beats a Reggie Bush. With or without the Heisman. You'd rather have the car, I'd rather have the cash. The very essence of YMMV
In either case, considering the present state of the economy, we are all very
fortunate to be able to own/lease a BMW.
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  #39  
Old 09-17-2010, 06:57 PM
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quackbury quackbury is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gregb10 View Post
Thanks for your reponse and advice.

$37.00 is not a deal killer, I just had a specific number in mind. Your advice on MSD is better than anything my dealer is telling me. I just leanred of this option recently.

I repsectfully disagree that 1,500 over invoice is fair when Im leasing my third car from the same dealer and the dealer is stating its 680 over invoice. I jsut want them to be honest with me,, again, unless im missing something.

Would you be willing to email me you leasing calculator? Would be grealty apreciated. Im PM you my private email.

BTW, What is BMWCCA?

Thanks again.
Very few customers know about MSD's, so don't hold it against the dealer.

BMWCCA is BMW Car CLub of America. Details here: www.bmwcca.org The monthly magazine alone is worth the price of admission. Plus a 10% to 15% discount on parts and accessories at participating dealers, and a $500 to $1,500 rebate when you buy or lease a new or CPO BMW.

Not sure what to say about the experience with your dealer. There are lots of ways for them to pad the transaction price: marking up the MF, adding $200 to the acquisition fee, etc. I think the fact they didn't is a good sign.

Not sure what to make of the discrepancy between $680 and $1,500. $680 is a VERY weird number. At the end of the day, the F10 is in demand and the dealer is entitled to make a profit on it. Yes you may get it cheaper by driving to a center 50 miles from your house (or buying on from one of the Fest sponsors and doing PCD), but one question I'd consider is where are you going to get it serviced, and how does that dealership treat you if you didn't buy your car there? I'd rather deal with a center with a top notch SA, BMW loaners and valet service, rather than drive an hour to a place with Enterprise rental cars.

(And remember that when you are leasing, an extra $500 of dealer profit - added to the cap cost - only increases your monthly payment by $15. No biggie).
__________________


Current BMW's:
2014 328i Sport Wagon, Glacier / Black, ZSL, ZD2, ZD3, ZDH, ZLP, ZPP, ZTP, and H-K
2011 535xi M Sport TiAg / Black, ZPP, ZP2, ZCV, ZCW, ZDA, 2TB, 6NR, 465, 5DL, and a Partridge in a Pear Tree

Prior BMW's
2011 X5 35D
2008 ///M3 Vert
2008 X5 3.0
2007 X5 3.0
2006 X5 3.0
2006 550iA SP
2003 540iA M-Sport
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  #40  
Old 09-17-2010, 07:20 PM
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gregb10 gregb10 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quackbury View Post
Very few customers know about MSD's, so don't hold it against the dealer.

BMWCCA is BMW Car CLub of America. Details here: www.bmwcca.org The monthly magazine alone is worth the price of admission. Plus a 10% to 15% discount on parts and accessories at participating dealers, and a $500 to $1,500 rebate when you buy or lease a new or CPO BMW.

Not sure what to say about the experience with your dealer. There are lots of ways for them to pad the transaction price: marking up the MF, adding $200 to the acquisition fee, etc. I think the fact they didn't is a good sign.

Not sure what to make of the discrepancy between $680 and $1,500. $680 is a VERY weird number. At the end of the day, the F10 is in demand and the dealer is entitled to make a profit on it. Yes you may get it cheaper by driving to a center 50 miles from your house (or buying on from one of the Fest sponsors and doing PCD), but one question I'd consider is where are you going to get it serviced, and how does that dealership treat you if you didn't buy your car there? I'd rather deal with a center with a top notch SA, BMW loaners and valet service, rather than drive an hour to a place with Enterprise rental cars.

(And remember that when you are leasing, an extra $500 of dealer profit - added to the cap cost - only increases your monthly payment by $15. No biggie).
Thaks again for the info.

Ok, I understand now and got my lease spreadsheet to work.

I own a business myself and dont expect anyone in busienss not to make money. I have no issue with a dealer making a reasonable profit.

You're right,, 680 is a strange number,, but thats the number they gave.

I do feel that a loyal customer should be treated well and I shouldnt have to pay a premium for the privliage of doing business with someone for a 3rd lease in a row.

I'm low maintanence, even though it doesnt look that way. I do busienss through email,, never call and never even show up at the dealer to break chops. I had a guy take me on a 10 minutes test drive and followed everything up via email.

All i ask is to be treated fairly and honestly.


Want to hear a story about service?

i took my 08 535xi in for service. I hit osmething in the road and dammaged a bracket underneath the car that goes in the middle in between the chassis and exhaust.

Dealer told me 350 to 400, depending on whether it needed new bolts. I told them not to fix it and took it to my neighborhood mechinal who works on exotic cars.

He bought the part, orginial, from BMW for $7.00,, it came with the bolts, and he charged me a total of $20.00.

It bothered me but I never brought it up to them. Im not a confrontational type of person.

How would you feel if that happened to you? Fair?
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  #41  
Old 09-17-2010, 08:11 PM
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quackbury quackbury is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gregb10 View Post
How would you feel if that happened to you? Fair?
Honestly? I'd feel like it was time to find a new dealer!
__________________


Current BMW's:
2014 328i Sport Wagon, Glacier / Black, ZSL, ZD2, ZD3, ZDH, ZLP, ZPP, ZTP, and H-K
2011 535xi M Sport TiAg / Black, ZPP, ZP2, ZCV, ZCW, ZDA, 2TB, 6NR, 465, 5DL, and a Partridge in a Pear Tree

Prior BMW's
2011 X5 35D
2008 ///M3 Vert
2008 X5 3.0
2007 X5 3.0
2006 X5 3.0
2006 550iA SP
2003 540iA M-Sport
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  #42  
Old 09-17-2010, 08:30 PM
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gregb10 gregb10 is offline
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Originally Posted by quackbury View Post
Honestly? I'd feel like it was time to find a new dealer!
I guess thats why I'm a little over sensitive and I question whatever this dealer tell me.
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  #43  
Old 09-17-2010, 11:51 PM
chrischeung chrischeung is offline
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Originally Posted by Ronsell View Post
In either case, considering the present state of the economy, we are all very fortunate to be able to own/lease a BMW.
That may be true for you and others. But for myself, I don't count myself fortunate. I just count myself rewarded for all the years of hard work and study I've done, as well as the financial sacrifices, decisions and risks I have taken - success and failures. Fortune or luck has nothing to do with it.

The thing about luck is that sooner or later it runs out - I'm just not foolish enough to believe that it wouldn't happen to me.
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Last edited by chrischeung; 09-17-2010 at 11:54 PM.
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Old 09-18-2010, 05:36 AM
Ronsell Ronsell is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrischeung View Post
That may be true for you and others. But for myself, I don't count myself fortunate. I just count myself rewarded for all the years of hard work and study I've done, as well as the financial sacrifices, decisions and risks I have taken - success and failures. Fortune or luck has nothing to do with it.

The thing about luck is that sooner or later it runs out - I'm just not foolish enough to believe that it wouldn't happen to me.
Kudos for all of your hard work and sacrifice, but I'm afraid you totally missed my point.

Last edited by Ronsell; 09-18-2010 at 06:00 AM. Reason: amended
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Old 09-18-2010, 07:26 AM
chrischeung chrischeung is offline
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Originally Posted by Ronsell View Post
Kudos for all of your hard work and sacrifice, but I'm afraid you totally missed my point.
Can you explain it further then?

I'll be the first to admit that the intricacies of American Football are usually totally lost on me. I do understand the Regie Bush/trophy incident and the return of the award situation, but failed to draw any connection to owning/leasing a BMW unfortunately, hence the take on your comment at face value.
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Last edited by chrischeung; 09-18-2010 at 07:49 AM.
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Old 09-18-2010, 07:54 AM
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quackbury quackbury is offline
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The Reggie Bush thing was a play on words - there's an old expression "a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush." I was just trying to lighten the mood with a non-sequiter, as someone was getting a little testy. Obviously, my comment was a little too obtuse..

I think what Ronsell was trying to say is that we are all very fortunate to have the opportunity to be driving BMW's. Whether that fortune comes from luck, hard work, God's grace, or winning the lottery doesn't matter. Nor does whether you lease, finance or pay cash. We should all count our blessings.
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Old 09-18-2010, 08:09 AM
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Originally Posted by quackbury View Post
The Reggie Bush thing was a play on words - there's an old expression "a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush." I was just trying to lighten the mood with a non-sequiter, as someone was getting a little testy. Obviously, my comment was a little too obtuse..

I think what Ronsell was trying to say is that we are all very fortunate to have the opportunity to be driving BMW's. Whether that fortune comes from luck, hard work, God's grace, or winning the lottery doesn't matter. Nor does whether you lease, finance or pay cash. We should all count our blessings.
Well Said
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Old 09-18-2010, 09:51 AM
solstice solstice is offline
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Financials matters.
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Old 09-18-2010, 08:37 PM
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Originally Posted by solstice View Post
Financials matters.
Mr. Potter, is that you?

(PS If you really think you are the only one on this board with a solid balance sheet, you are very, very mistaken.)
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Prior BMW's
2011 X5 35D
2008 ///M3 Vert
2008 X5 3.0
2007 X5 3.0
2006 X5 3.0
2006 550iA SP
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Old 09-19-2010, 03:39 PM
solstice solstice is offline
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Originally Posted by quackbury View Post
Mr. Potter, is that you?

(PS If you really think you are the only one on this board with a solid balance sheet, you are very, very mistaken.)
Here's the thing Mr quack. I've heard the "cash flow" argument before. It's mainly used by shady loan officers. Here's how the lingo goes:

- You really shouldn't put more money down than the minimum required, by doing so you reduce your cash flow.
- It's better to go for a 30y loan than a 15y since it improves your cash flow
- This zero down, interest only ARM is a mighty good product, it improves your cash flow.
-etc,etc

Rings a bell? Did it work out well? Know anyone impacted by the fallout?

The LOs only concern is to make maximum amount of money of you. A larger loan and/or a longer period achieves this.

A leasing deal is a bit different but when I hear things like that it improves your cash flow and we should all be happy and not worry about financing it smells fish (or duck perhaps ).
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