Welcome to Bimmerfest -- The #1 Online Community for BMW related information! Please enjoy the discussion forums below and share your experiences with the 200,000 current, new and past BMW owners. The forums are broken out by car model and into other special interest sections such as BMW European Delivery and a special forum to voice your questions to the many BMW dealers on the site to assist our members!

Please follow the links below to help get you started!

Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 5 Series > F10 / F11 (2011 - Current)

F10 / F11 (2011 - Current)
The new chapter in the highly successful story of the BMW 5 Series Sedan (F10) and wagon (F11)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #51  
Old 09-19-2010, 06:34 PM
quackbury's Avatar
quackbury quackbury is offline
///Monkeyazz Duck
Location: Not In Kansas Any More
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,456
Mein Auto: 535i M Sport; 328i Wagon
(Sigh). Let's just both agree that you don't get it, and you don't like it, and leave it go at that, okay?

Leasing is not a panacea, and to the best of my knowledge no one on this board said it improves cash flow. Rather, it allows you to retain capital, with the potential to invest said capital into equities, a closely held business, or any other (potentially) APPRECIATING asset, instead of a mass produced automobile which is almost always a DEPRECIATING asset. It may also offer tax advantages for those of us who use capital assets (like cars, notebooks, servers, and telecommunications equipment) in their business, instead of sitting home in Potterville admiring themselves in the mirror and sniping at others.

The great thing about capitalism is that we are all free to invest our capital however we think best. I'm fine with you investing your cash in cars. I don't understand why you have a problem with folks who don't share your philosophy.

Since you are on the West Coast, your BMW arrived at your dealership first via train, then via truck. There is a 99.99% probability that both the rail car and the trailer that transported your vehicle were owned by a leasing company, who leased them to the railroad or the common carrier. If you flew to Munich to do ED, there is also a 99.99% probability that the aircraft you flew was owned by GE Capital or another entity, then leased to Delta, American, Lufthansa or whatever airline you used. You may feel morally superior to the railroads, the trucking company and the airlines, but all the MBA's employed by them choose leasing for a reason. (Heck, many of them also engage in employee leasing, which even I find odious).

By the way your prior posts are contradictory. You start by boasting that you pay cash for your cars, then go on to say that paying cash allows you to invest the money you would otherwise spend in payments. The inference is that it is somehow more valuable to invest $800/month than a $65,000 lump sum. Makes zero sense to me.

Are there schmucks who enter into leasing not understanding the transaction, just so they can drive a fancier car than they can really deserve? Sure there are. Just check out Swapalease and look at all the poor souls who are trying to bail on a lease where they are over mileage (leased the car for 10,000 miles/year to keep the payments low, drove 20,000 miles instead), and find themselves royally screwed. But there are also schmucks who allocate capital to dubious investments (Bernie Madoff ring a bell?). Lessees don't have the market cornered on stupidity. You insult a lot of intelligent business people by claiming that they do.
__________________


Current BMW's:
2014 535i MSport Space / Black, ZCW, ZDA, ZLP, ZLS, ZPP, H-K and 704
2014 328i Sport Wagon, Glacier / Black, ZSL, ZD2, ZD3, ZDH, ZLP, ZPP, ZTP, and H-K

Prior BMW's
2011 535ix MSport
2011 X5 35D
2008 ///M3 Vert
2008 X5 3.0
2007 X5 3.0
2006 X5 3.0
2006 550iA SP
2003 540iA M-Technic
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old 09-19-2010, 07:31 PM
solstice solstice is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Seattle
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,327
Mein Auto: 2015 F80 M3
Quack, this is how it started

"I disagree. Leasing is the way to go if you always like to rotate your cars, or if you like to maintain your cash flow."

This is what I responded to before you jumped in with your 2c.
So sure we can agree to disagree but don't believe that leasing is a non-profit operation. There is administration and profit margins as with any business model and who do you think pays for it? That's right, you the leasee. Cash buyers don't. Anyhow I'm not against leasing or people who choose to. I just don't agree with people who pushes it as being a better financial decision since I think that is rare and requires more fincancial wit than what is the norm.

Last edited by solstice; 09-19-2010 at 07:53 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old 09-19-2010, 08:49 PM
Ronsell Ronsell is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: San Antonio, Texas
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 275
Send a message via AIM to Ronsell
Mein Auto: 2011 528i
Quote:
Originally Posted by solstice View Post
Quack, this is how it started

"I disagree. Leasing is the way to go if you always like to rotate your cars, or if you like to maintain your cash flow."

This is what I responded to before you jumped in with your 2c.
So sure we can agree to disagree but don't believe that leasing is a non-profit operation. There is administration and profit margins as with any business model and who do you think pays for it? That's right, you the leasee. Cash buyers don't. Anyhow I'm not against leasing or people who choose to. I just don't agree with people who pushes it as being a better financial decision since I think that is rare and requires more fincancial wit than what is the norm.
Actually, I think you both have valid points. Of course, we would all save a lot of $$$
by just riding the bus--but then we wouldn't have nearly as much fun--and we would
miss the smell of that rich Corinthian leather (in this case, Nappa or Dakota). If you
remember that commercial, then you are older than dirt--which I am.
Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old 09-20-2010, 08:22 AM
jimefam jimefam is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Cumming, GA
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 730
Mein Auto: 2011 550i on order
Quote:
Originally Posted by solstice View Post
Here's the thing Mr quack. I've heard the "cash flow" argument before. It's mainly used by shady loan officers. Here's how the lingo goes:

- You really shouldn't put more money down than the minimum required, by doing so you reduce your cash flow.
- It's better to go for a 30y loan than a 15y since it improves your cash flow
- This zero down, interest only ARM is a mighty good product, it improves your cash flow.
-etc,etc

Rings a bell? Did it work out well? Know anyone impacted by the fallout?

The LOs only concern is to make maximum amount of money of you. A larger loan and/or a longer period achieves this.

A leasing deal is a bit different but when I hear things like that it improves your cash flow and we should all be happy and not worry about financing it smells fish (or duck perhaps ).

I think you have been watching to much msnbc or listening to politicians abit to much. The fact is that if you can be disciplined in your spending you are much better off financing through bmwfs or even leasing if you own your own business than paying cash. For example you can get a car loan for 2.99% from penfed right now. Surely you can invest your 65k and get more than 3% no? Everyone got themselves in a lot of trouble because people love living beyond there means and our culture is set up to coddle the weakest and stupidest among us. Blame the loan officer! Yeah right, why would you want to pay off your mortgage??? I just refinanced my house at 4.25% for 30 years! and its tax deductible! I'd be crazy not to borrow every single dollar I can at that rate and invest in my business where my return is far more than that 4.25%. As for your zero down interest only ARM well that is a great product for some people, I'll use myself as an example I was a financial specialist for Wachovia a few years ago and bought my current house on a 3 year ARM at 3.5% even though I had more than half the money for the house cash. Took that Cash and started my own business which in short time allowed me to leave the bank and devote myself full time to the business. 3 Yrs later ARM was going to adjust upwards 2% and be variable after that so I simply paid off my mortgage and owned the house outright for this last year till I had time to get the loan that I wanted. Took out the loan mentioned above and will use a significant portion of the proceeds to fuel further growth of my business and will invest the rest. Rest assured I can turn a better profit than 4.25% a year so it works for me. Most people though get these type of loans to get into things they couldn't have afforded in the first place. Dont blame the product blame the irresponsible people who should have acted there wage and never bought that home in the first place. Same thing with this car I have on order if I had to I could pay cash but why? when I can get a good rate from bmw or any credit union and make better use of my funds it makes no sense! Or better yet I'll lease it though my company and write it off as the car will primarily be used for business. Then again i'm only 25 years old what do I know?
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Forum Navigation
Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 5 Series > F10 / F11 (2011 - Current)
Today's Posts Search
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On



Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:42 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
© 2001-2011 performanceIX, Inc. All Rights Reserved .: guidelines .:. privacy .:. terms