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E39 (1997 - 2003)
The BMW 5-Series (E39 chassis) was introduced in the United States as a 1997 model year car and lasted until the 2004 when the E60 chassis was released. The United States saw several variations including the 525i, 528i, 530i and 540i. -- View the E39 Wiki

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  #51  
Old 06-25-2012, 04:24 PM
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bluebee bluebee is offline
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For the crosslinked record, I noticed a nice charcoal canister writeup here ...
- E39 (1997 - 2003) > Problems filling up gasoline

Quote:
Originally Posted by filon102 View Post
Well, here is what i found, hope it helps:



* Remove rear left wheel.
* Remove rear left wheel trim.



Loosen activated-carbon filter.



NOTE: Release the connections for the intake pipe and tank ventilation before pulling off with special tool 16 1 050.



Layout of Connections :

1. Ventilation
2. Suction tube to engine
3. Tank venting

Disconnect connections (1 ... 3)

Part #, and misc:


Evaporative Emission Control Canister

Vapor Canister:
OEM Part Price
To 3/97 16136758757 $138.07
From 3/97 16131184272 $138.07

Good luck
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  #52  
Old 06-25-2012, 09:54 PM
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Great thread...!

Could an over-flowing gas station pump cause the Leak Detection Pump to fail?

Last year, when filling-up the car, the gas station pump did not automatically shut off, but instead shot gas all over my car.
This happened twice within a period of 2 months.
Once, right before my first fuel pump fails, and again about 1 month after the fuel pump was replaced.

Could the over-flowing gas from the gas station pump cause the Leak Detection Pump (that is connected to the Charcoal Canister) to fail...???

I guess my other question is that could a bad Leak Detection Pump, or bad Charcoal Canister cause:

1. the Fuel Pump to work harder?
2. And/ or cause lack in acceleration, as when you are accelerating, then hit the gas (punch-it), and then nothing happens (the doesn't rev to accelerate - bogs)...?

Thanks!
Jason
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Last edited by Jason5driver; 06-25-2012 at 09:55 PM.
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  #53  
Old 07-17-2012, 08:14 AM
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For cross reference, we seem to have a need for a charcoal canister location & DIY thread based on what's in this thread today:
-> E39 (1997 - 2003) > Charcoal cannister 540- 2002

Quote:
Originally Posted by PAULIN540I View Post
Searched but could not find the answer to the location of the charcoal cannisterl
Do you have P0455 and P0422 codes?

I typed "/charcoal canister" in the bestlinks for you to find these:
- How to replace the LDP leak detection pump charcoal canister (1) (2) & does spilled gasoline go into the charcoal canister (1)

I think we should beef up our knowledge of the location of the charcoal canister & a DIY to test & replace it on both the V8 & I6 (if it's different).

For my part, I'll cross reference to this thread from there so people more easily find what's already in the bestlinks.

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Last edited by bluebee; 07-17-2012 at 08:21 AM.
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  #54  
Old 10-03-2012, 07:07 AM
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For the record, this thread has an update on what happens when mice chew through the rubber vent hose:
Quote:
Originally Posted by gtxragtop View Post
the lovely mice chewed on the small black line which I assume is the vent line. The chewing left a pinhole that peed fuel when I filled the tank.
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  #55  
Old 05-02-2015, 11:09 AM
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This somewhat related question on the charcoal canister came up today...
> E39 (1997 - 2003) > ?; Replacing charcoal canister
Quote:
Originally Posted by boostedwolfie View Post
Car is 00 540i build date 9/99. Realoem shows the canister on my car is for 09/97-09/00. Cars built after 09/00 get a pump with different p/n. Whats the difference? Should i just replace the with the same? Was the design changed in 09/00?
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  #56  
Old 05-02-2015, 11:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orxan4ik View Post
onto the ground, there is a tube that goes behind the right rear wheel. look under the car and youll see it. in this video starting @50sec
Here is a snapshot taken at 56 seconds in that film...

I'm still confused where the drain holes drain to, as I can't fathom the concept that fuel would spill on the ground, at least not here in the republic of Kalifornia...
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  #57  
Old 05-02-2015, 11:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MatWiz View Post
There are 2 big pictures in step 7. You don't see them?
I too am confused by that set of step #7 set of pictures because I'm not sure that's not just the air vent to the tank.

What I can't tell from these two pictures is whether that line attaches at the one end to either the 3 o'clock or 9 o'clock fuel-filler holes, and, even worse, I can't tell where the other end goes.
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  #58  
Old 05-02-2015, 12:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 540iman View Post
It was my belief at the time that the plastic hose that is referred to at the 50 second point of the video may actually go to the battery vent tube and not the fuel filler.
That's interesting.

Here is a picture of my battery vent tube, from the inside:
- Here is a simple battery replacement DIY (1)
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  #59  
Old 05-02-2015, 01:41 PM
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I am re-reading this thread, to find the answer (which I had forgotten over time)...

Quote:
Originally Posted by doru View Post
Those 2 drains must go somwhere, and not onto the ground. I also never witnessed any wet pavement after gasoline spilled in those 2 holes.
I agree.

Quote:
Originally Posted by doru View Post
Why would the charcoal canister get ruined if gas goes in it?

Good question.
I don't know where I had gotten that idea but googling, I'm not the first... but, it's mostly forums and questions, so, we'd need a reliable source.
- Charcoal canister damaged when overfilling fuel tank
Quote:
It does terrible things to the evap system and that includes the charcoal canister. The canister in newer cars is not vented to the atmosphere like the older cars, so once saturated with raw gas, it doesn't clear after a few miles, it stays saturated for a while. This, of course, causes problems in the evap system and never ending 'check engine' codes. Other problems are raw gas mucking up evap sensors and valves, requiring them to be replaced. And some are not cheap. The evap system in newer cars is designed to sacrifice itself to prevent fuel spills from over-filling, so the constant punishment for over-topping the gas tank could lead to expensive repairs.
- Chevy Blazer Ruined Charcoal Canister Because of Gas
Quote:
The charcoal canister is not intended to filter gasoline or become saturated with fuel. It is only capable of filtering gas fumes. Even after drying the EVAP canister, HC will still remain within the charcoal pellets. Chances of passing the smog check for the next several hundred miles with a charcoal canister saturated with fuel (even after drying) will more than likely not be possible.
- What happens when topping off gas tank
Quote:
If you get raw fuel in the charcoal canister, you will destroy it, it is designed to capture fumes. Just topping off, then driving (far enough to burn off a few gallons) won't hurt anything. There is an air bubble trapped in the top of the tank, when you move it usually gets bumped to the top of the filler neck, as long as you burn fuel faster then it expands - you are good to go. If you top off, then park there is the chance the fuel can expand, and run down the line to the evap canister.
- Gas in charcoal canister
Quote:
the charcoal canister is an evap control mechnism. i.e. the charcoal absorbs harmful gasoline vapors from you filler neck and thereby prevents them from entering the atmosphere. topping off you tank overfills your filler neck and :duh: overflows your evap canister, destroying it
- Is it really bad to top off the gas tank?
Quote:
Modern canisters are located in the rear of the car underneath or behind the bumper these days, they can be a pretty complex affair with valves and solenoids and so on.
They don't like raw fuel and some are expensive so its safest to fill the tank only till the pump shuts off.

One thing that can happen if it does get filled with fuel is unmetered fuel can get sucked into the engine when the evap runs, not a good thing.
Getting soaked once or twice is not likely to damage the unit but i wouldn't make a habit of topping off the tank.

Hot summer days when the tank is topped off and parked without burning any fuel off is usually when this will happen, the expanding fuel has to go somewhere.
- How does the charcoal canister go bad?
Quote:
the canister does vent pressure in the form of accepting vapors through the vent valve in the top of the tank, but it can only take so much. If the tank has been overheated (BTDT on the road course), it'll send liquid gasoline up the vent line to the canister, and the canister is open to atmosphere through a small vent. It's normally totally capable of taking the vapors and either treating them with the charcoal or venting them to the intake depending on the actuation of the canister purge valve, but if it gets hit with liquid gas, it'll saturate, and stink, and be ruined. BTDT too.
Of course, all of that can be wrong, so, we need something reliable, not hearsay and guesses.

EDIT: After re-reading the whole thread, this appears to be the most common answer ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by windsmith View Post
Those two 'drains' that Bluebee drew arrows to appear to be BEHIND the fuel cap, no? If they are sealed under the cap, then I'm fairly certain that they simply 'drain' into the tank.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chiefwej View Post
I believe they are vents to allow the pressure to escape as gas is added. Any gas that entered just drains back to the tank.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chiefwej View Post
Since the holes are within the filler neck #9, the only place for the fuel to go is to the tank.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimLev View Post
+1, 2 and 3....that's exactly where it goes.
If you want to prove it to yourself look in with a flashlight, get a thin piece of wire pushed into either hole. Watch where it comes out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe@Bavarian View Post
It drains back in to the tank.
That would mean there is no harm in topping off the fuel tank, at least until it really begins to spill ...
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Last edited by bluebee; 05-02-2015 at 02:07 PM.
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  #60  
Old 05-03-2015, 08:29 AM
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Here's another reference today that implies that spilled gas goes into the charcoal canister...
> E39 (1997 - 2003) > ?; Replacing charcoal canister
Quote:
Originally Posted by 540iman View Post
The charcoal in the canister will remain *good* for a very long time. It will marginally change your running parameters and your gas mileage.

The purge valve is another story, but as long as you are not setting any codes, why even mess with it.

They can go bad with contaminated charcoal, but generally only if you repeatedly over-fill your tank with gas.

I would NEVER replace this canister if I were not getting an error and then I would remove the purge valve first, bring it inside the house or the garage and try to blow through it.

You should not be able to blow through it at all. Then put 12VDC to the two connectors (polarity not important if removed from car). You should hear the purge valve "click" and with power still applied, you should easily be able to blow through it. If it does not click or the solenoid shift to where you can blow straight through it, then clean the valve with gasoline or a silicone lubricant to get the plunger free to where it does shift back and forth (open and closed) with 12 VDC applied.

If you can not free up the solenoid with it soaking in gas or drenched with a spray lubricant to where you can blow through it energized, then it is time to change out PLUS you would be getting the SES coming on.

If you clean the purge valve with anything besides gasoline, then you will want to dry it out well after soaking it in mild dishwater soap and water. Dry the valve while energized and open. This may be over-kill removing all that you may have sprayed into the valve, but I don't trust many chemicals remaining in and on the guts of the valve. G/L
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  #61  
Old 05-03-2015, 08:43 AM
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I just noticed, in the myriad detail of this thread, that Steve seems to have figured out what the MatWiz number #7 drain hose likely does.

That it drains water to the underside of the car makes more sense than it would drain gasoline.

But who would have thought there is a hose attached to the hole in the gas cap filler hole rubber gasket!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve530 View Post
if you look closely at the rubber part on the outside of the filler, you'll see that this is actually is folded over to seal around the raised part of the body that the filler goes through.

I think this is part of the filler tube gasket that seals the filler tube to the body.

This gasket is the part to which the tube that exits behind the wheel is attached according to VietSB's DIY.

On the exterior, there is a small hole at the bottom of the folded gasket.

I confirmed that this is connected to the hose that exits behind the wheel by blowing compressed air through the hole and feeling the air exit the tube.

I assume that this is to drain water that accumulates in the filler recess when you was the car.


This doesn't answer Bluebee's question about where the gas goes when you overfill the tank.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve530 View Post
I think it's a drain for the filler neck recess in the body, not a vent for the fuel system. I've circled the place on the TIS diagram where I think it connects.



The hole is clearly visible in Bluebee's immaculately clean gasket. I've annotated the photo below.

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