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E63 / E64 6 Series (2003 - 2013)
The E63/E64 BMW 6 Series builds on BMW's sporty heritage with aggressive lines and an incredible motor to back the design up. Available in coupe and convertible trims with a standard 4.8 liter engine producing 360 horsepower and 360 lb-ft of torque, the 6-series is a popular choice that exceeds expectations.

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  #1  
Old 10-07-2010, 11:42 PM
Dynamicfigure Dynamicfigure is offline
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Service for "ticking" sound

Took the 6 in to the dealer/stealer-ship today. They were actually pretty great. It had a "tick" in the engine and they found the vacuum pump was filled with oil (same culprit that is part of the upcoming recall by BMW). It was replaced under warrantee and the tick does not seem as bad. What's left of the tick is being attributed to "valve train noise." I asked that they check the service bulletin about 4.4L motors "ticking" and needing a bering replaced and the mechanic said he'd look into it and let me know tomorrow what the verdict is.

I'm still a bit concerned that the "valve train noise" they are mentioning - which still has a bit of a "tick" sound in it, and that wasn't there when I bought the car, is something more systemic in the engine than the valves but we'll see what they say tomorrow. How do you other 645 owners find your motors - any light dieseling sounding "tick's" in the motor bay?
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  #2  
Old 10-08-2010, 01:09 PM
davy_b davy_b is offline
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ya i have it aswell i was told its the power steering pump but im not sure
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  #3  
Old 10-08-2010, 01:17 PM
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petriej petriej is offline
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I had this symptom on my old '96 E36. I hadn't changed the oil in a long while (naughty, I know) and the lifters were sticking (as described by my Uncle and Father).

After an oil change the ticking went away on their own after the lifters were cleansed out with fresh oil.
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  #4  
Old 11-04-2010, 08:17 PM
Dynamicfigure Dynamicfigure is offline
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Unhappy Ticking

So the original time I took the car into the dealer I was told that the 4.4 was just "a loud engine" and that it was a normal sound. I told them that the ticking was not there when I bought the car and that it was getting worse. The mechanic suggested I just drive the car some more & see. Today, the car is no better - in fact a bit worse , and after a lot of research on this including seeing the scored cylinder posts everywhere and looking at 545 boards & such I took it in again. This time a new mechanic (not the last one) told me that he heard an abnormal sound.

It is a diesel sounding "ticking" at idle that increases as you apply throttle up to about 2K RPM's and then the exhaust muffles it. I told them I didn't know what it was but that it did not sound normal. He agreed. I mentioned a service bulletin for Intermittent Hydraulic Valve Adjuster (HVA) Noise that I have seen on 545 boards (this applies to 4.4L 2004-2005 build dates it seems). He agreed it sounded valve train related and scheduled an appointment to pull my heads & do the lifter replacement specified in the service bulletin.

Hopefully it fixes my "ticking" sound, but as always one fears that the issue might be something else. Any other experience on the board with this issue? Time is a bit of the essence - as my CPO is up 11/29 and the gal at the desk made it pretty clear that if they figure out what is causing this after the CPO is out, that there is not a good will clause for owners who found a problem, but which the dealer could not resolve before the warrantee expiredand that I would be stuck footing any repair costs from then on...
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  #5  
Old 11-15-2010, 06:04 PM
Dynamicfigure Dynamicfigure is offline
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Ticking update

Got a call that it was a belt tensioner and that it was fixed & ready to pick up today! Whoot, except... when I got in the car the original sound was still present.

The mechanic lifted the hood and listened. He also sat in the interior where you can hear the sound most noticeably. He too heard something. Tried to attribute it to the vacuum pump. It took some time for us to agree but eventually we decided it was not the vacuum pump. The proof came when he got out a stethoscope with a long metal probe and proceeded to "listen" to the vacuum pump and the engine itself. The ticking came most noticeably from the spot centered behind the valve train of the engine and was not present at all in or from the vacuum pump. Another tech even came out and, when he was asked if he heard a ticking said "yep," and tellingly said... "I've never heard that before."

Then the story unfolds that when the tech called BMW to get authorization to take the motor apart and look at the valves that the BMW rep told them not to take it apart. That it is a normal sound, etc. The heck of it is that this sound was not there when I bought the car, and it is getting progressively worse - and louder through time (as in a couple months of use and a few thousand miles of driving).

They wanted me to take the car and then bring it back when the BMW engineer comes to town. Which is at least a month out. After reminding them that if I took the car and there was something wrong at that point, that the CPO would be expired - and I would be out of luck and have to foot the bill for any fix we had a discussion. The service advisor and service manager both at that point told me and "gave me their word" that BMW would fix it for free if it were a repair that would have been covered by warrantee. The week before when I asked if that were possible one of the same two individuals had said there is no "goodwill clause" on CPO's for second owners and that it would not be repaired. As such, I told them that if it would be fixed it was well and fine but that I'd like to talk to someone at BMW that told me as much, or get something in writing before taking the car so I could rest assured that it would be fixed for free - like they said - it it were a problem that the warrantee covers. They could not do that or... did not offer to which left me wondering. I then told them they could keep the car as long as needed, a month or two is fine as long as they don't close the job order that it is under today because that was opened before the warrantee expired and all repairs under it would be covered. They of course told me that wasn't possible - they can't keep job orders open for a car that is not being worked on. In the end I left my still unrepaired car there and was told by the service manager that he'd pull some strings and see if they could get authorization to tear into the engine and finally start figuring out what may be wrong and that he'd have a tech that though it was not his specialty, knew a bit - listen to it tomorrow and see if he could hear anything.

Any suggestions on how to handle this with BMW or the dealer - I don't want to take an unfixed car from them at this point, have the warrantee expire and then have a problem pop up in a few months? Any helpful ideas would be most appreciated.
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  #6  
Old 11-15-2010, 06:11 PM
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bmwe39fan bmwe39fan is offline
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Get it in writing. Ask them to document everything in your email on a service order and ask them to put what they said in writing on the service order.
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  #7  
Old 11-15-2010, 08:00 PM
Desert B Desert B is offline
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Here is what I got back from Steve Thomas BMW in Camarillo, CA.;

ISSUE #1: (ME) rattling noise from right front upper engine area by vacuum pump. Verified by shop foreman
(BMW): Recommend new vacuum pump assembly. Est $848.

ISSUE #2; (ME) Faint honking noise from right cylinder area. Goes away when you open oil cap. Verified by shop foreman.
(BMW): Recommend new return valve and hose assemblies. Est $1,473.

Is it me or does it sound like I'm getting F'd in the A?
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  #8  
Old 11-15-2010, 09:27 PM
Dynamicfigure Dynamicfigure is offline
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F'd

LOL - at last... another forum member with this little issue - or something resembling it...

They replaced my vacuum pump last time I took it in and that did no good towards fixing the ticking sound. I haven't tried taking the oil cap off and listening yet, not a bad idea to try though.

I honestly don't care if hanging a set of fuzzy dice from my mirror fixes the problem, I'd just like to get an honest answer that - yea... I hear that too and it sure sounds like your... needs replaced. Instead what I repeatedly get for a sound that wasn't there when I bought this beauty and that is getting worse over a few thousand miles of driving is "that's normal for this engine..."
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  #9  
Old 11-16-2010, 08:58 PM
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petros2r petros2r is offline
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I haven't tried taking the oil cap off and listening yet, not a bad idea to try though.

By all means - do not do this, or you may cause yourself (an ear or side of the head damage) and your car (compression (sensors) at least) damage / trouble.
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  #10  
Old 11-16-2010, 09:22 PM
Don RSA Don RSA is offline
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Hi, had a similar problem with a 318I. The ticking sound from the upper left of the engine (Right when facing the engine from the front) disappeared when the mechanic slightly pulled out the dipstick and came back the moment the dipstick was pushed in again. He said it was the disa valve and replaced it which solved my problem. Just check if your car uses a disa valve and you might have identified the culprit. Just a quick explanation as per my mechanic (before you search for disa valve), this unit basically modifies the inlet manifold length by opening and closing a type of butterfly valve by pushing and pulling a metal rod connected to the valve. The function is to increase torque at certain revs. The metal rod connections wear out where it connects to the valve and would rattle due to no pulling or pushing action at idle. Once torque is needed (Simulated by pulling out the dipstick) the free play is taken up hence the rattle disappears.
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  #11  
Old 12-29-2010, 02:59 PM
Dynamicfigure Dynamicfigure is offline
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Dealer

My dealer is being wonderful with me so far on this. They kept the car until the BMW tech could fly in and look at it. Today he was in town and he tells me that he hears the sound too and knows exactly what it is. Told me that the vacuum pump is turned by a shaft coming out of the front of the valve train. Sometimes the spot where that shaft meets the pump (the shaft is held in place inside the pump by a C-shaped fitting) wears and becomes a bit loose. As such when it turns the pump it makes a knocking sound that you hear in the car. The sound gets worse as the car warms up and can, with a diagnostic stethoscope, be isolated to the passenger cylinder head just above the vacuum pump. So far it is the exact symptoms and location that I'd isolated the sound coming from. He authorized the repair and the car should be fixed and back from the shop - next week. I'll post to let everyone know if it resolved the problem or not.

Last edited by Dynamicfigure; 12-29-2010 at 03:02 PM.
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  #12  
Old 01-12-2011, 10:27 PM
Dynamicfigure Dynamicfigure is offline
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Painful

I got a call from the service department today. They told me the car repairs were done but... that the sound was still there. I guess it was not the shaft going into the vacuum pump after all. They have a call into BMW North America to see what else they can do.
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  #13  
Old 01-13-2011, 06:51 AM
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pablo645 pablo645 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dynamicfigure View Post
I got a call from the service department today. They told me the car repairs were done but... that the sound was still there. I guess it was not the shaft going into the vacuum pump after all. They have a call into BMW North America to see what else they can do.
Man, that is some BS! How can they say the car is repaired when the original problem is still there? Plus, what type of compensation are you receiving or going to get from BMW for having your car for so long with the same issue? Its seems you have been without your car for more than a month.
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  #14  
Old 01-13-2011, 08:51 AM
Dynamicfigure Dynamicfigure is offline
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Yes, I've been without it for a long time but... it is by choice, and my dealer is being pretty great with me so far. The CPO expired in the middle of this so they are keeping it so the ticket is remains open under the old CPO. They can keep it till the cows come home to me, just as long as it gets fixed - of course if we didn't have a foot of snow on the ground for most of the last couple months, I might be singing a different tune...
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  #15  
Old 01-14-2011, 09:09 PM
Dynamicfigure Dynamicfigure is offline
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Home

Well, the dealer called today. Said that they had put the parts in that the Regional Technical Rep from BMW suggested and that I should come down and listen to the car. I did, the sound was still audible from inside the cab - it was not so bad I will say from outside the car - but it was cold outside too.

The mechanic I've grown to appreciate and I sat in the cab and could hear it clear as day. I left the car with him and he calls up the Regional Technical Rep that authorized the shaft replacement repair. Mind you the mechanic tells me he could not tell a bit of difference between the old and new shaft when he compared them. The rep tells him that BMW has done all that they can do and that they will not authorize any further repairs. I call BMW North America and a pleasant lady on the phone takes some pretty extensive notes that go over everything I said in this thread and then she to tells me that BMW cannot do anything more. I told her that I was concerned about this problem possibly getting worse and winding up costing an arm and a leg to fix if it turns into something bigger. She assured me that BMW was aware of the specifics around this sound with my car and that if such a thing were to happen that I could call them and they would take the situation into account. No assurances that they will help or defer any costs if something bad happens but that they'd "take it into account." I repeatedly asked about the valves and the fact that they never were looked at or even checked to see if they were in the range that the 4.4L had some trouble with in 545's...

The rep was amazingly well scripted to not imply they would fix or do a single thing, but still sound like they were going to review it if a bigger issue comes from my nagging little tick sound in the engine bay.

I finally picked up the car. About a month and a half at the dealer. It is wonderful to drive her again, but there is, if you turn the fan, radio, everything but the motor off, an ever so light tapping/diesel engine sound from 500-1800 rpm. We'll see if the Technical Rep is right and it will not get worse or if with more miles and time, it turns into something more. I'll keep you posted. If anyone runs into this situation or finds a fix, I'd love to hear what it is.
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  #16  
Old 01-14-2011, 09:59 PM
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Yorgi Yorgi is offline
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You should grab a mechanics stethoscope and see if you can isolate the sound yourself. If you have never tried one it's worth the price of admission even if you don't find your problem.

They are similar to a doctors stethoscope except with a stick in place of the bell. When you place it on the engine you will be amazed at the detail these things can pick up. I used a set to find out which one of my injectors was ticking and still use them today.

They are very inexpensive, somewhere between $5 and $30. Here are a few examples I found on nextag.com. You can probably find them at AutoZone or PepBoys too.
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  #17  
Old 01-15-2011, 05:23 AM
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645/333 645/333 is offline
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Ticking noise

when my car is cold it makes all kinds of different noises, and has done since the day I bought it, there are no faults at all and the car runs beautifully, once it has fully warmed up the noises disappear without any problems, and I have had the car 4 years and 60K miles....... I am technically minded so it is not a case of ignorance on my part. So it may well be that it is normal-ish, I agree with Yorgi about getting a stethoscope to listen just to ease your mind....
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  #18  
Old 01-15-2011, 11:02 AM
645Coup 645Coup is offline
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I have the same problem and have also changed the big end bearing shells after doing some research, but, it didn't cure the fault

My next things for me to do are a leak down test (your stealer can do this for you and shouldn't take long), exhaust manifold leak test, and pull the head covers to see if there's any wear on the cam shafts from a dodgey batch of valvetronic intermediate levers.
Have a look at the attached thread and you’ll see the marks on either side of the cam lobe on the third picture.

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=438459

If I do solve the tick I'll be posting on every forum
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  #19  
Old 01-16-2011, 09:53 AM
Dynamicfigure Dynamicfigure is offline
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I'd be interested in the leak down results.

The mechanic and I did the stethoscope and yes, what an amazing tool - with it we isolated the sound mostly to the passenger side heads, resonating strongest from a spot right above the vacuum pump, just before this whole affair started. BMW just never acknowledged that the heads could have any issues (though 545 boards repeatedly mention head/valve rebuilds fix a similar symptomatology in their early build date 4.4L's) and, as the dealer tells me, BMW needs to authorize any repair that entails pulling the heads off.

When he was here, I should have asked the regional guy what he would do if the shaft replacement did not fix the problem - as it did not, and that is when everyone suddenly said I was S.O.L. and that nothing was wrong with my car.

I've been driving it a couple days. It actually sounds worse. It did not used to make any sound when it was cold and I could only hear the ticking after it warmed up. Now it is there all the time. Mind you it is not overt or loud, but it is there - audible at idle w/the electronics (radio and HVAC) off - resonating from the center of the dash in time with the engine and also, if you pop the hood, ever so slightly audible with the hood up. I've decided to resign myself to driving it and seeing what happens. BMW N.A. made it "sound" like they would do something if it wound up being the valves and coming back to me later this year...

Perhaps in a couple years I'll still happily be driving around and the sound will be no worse. I feel like guinea pig here as I could also sell/trade the car and break even right now too.
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  #20  
Old 01-16-2011, 01:38 PM
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jagu jagu is offline
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I had the same ticking problem in my cpo 2005 545i. They first changed the litters and it did not solve the problem. However, they kept the car for 4 months while BMW asked them to try every remedy like changing the fuel injector,etc.

After a while, the BMW field rep came to the dealership and he finally authorized a new remanufactured engine to be installed. It has been flawless since then. You should start pushing for a new motor.

Nalley BMW was gracious to give me a new 2010 528i to drive for 4 months.
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Last edited by jagu; 01-16-2011 at 01:39 PM.
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  #21  
Old 09-19-2012, 11:52 AM
mpc1971 mpc1971 is offline
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other than putting a new engine in , did anyone ever cure this problem ???? i think i have it
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  #22  
Old 09-19-2012, 02:41 PM
645Coup 645Coup is offline
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I never got round to pulling the heads off to see if it was intermediate lever wear. Tbh I've given up now as its a weekend car due to a change in job. This new job also brings with it more money so after Christmas she'll be going in part-ex for either a e60 M5, e90 M3, or a 997 carrera2S. Shame really as I've not long since put a exhaust on her worth 3k!!
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  #23  
Old 09-19-2012, 07:36 PM
HerbP HerbP is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mpc1971 View Post
other than putting a new engine in , did anyone ever cure this problem ???? i think i have it
I think almost all the N62 engines have a tapping noise at the oil fill port. This is the one place that it can be heard the easiest. My guess is the valve lash adjustment has something to do with this. The valvetronic system can also account for some additional noise. I think that most of us will continue to hope for the best!
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  #24  
Old 12-31-2012, 12:49 AM
iscy iscy is offline
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I do have an N62 engine with the same issue. I was browsing around, looking for a fix when I found that:
http://www.redlinemotive.com/replace...nocksensor.asp

The description in the paragraph "How will I know if I have a faulty knock sensor?" describes the problem very well. So my question is, did anyone tried to replace the knock sensor yet?
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  #25  
Old 03-16-2013, 03:24 PM
Lamborghini Lamborghini is offline
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Have we had any luck with the mysterious knocking sound? I have an '04 645 6speed and I have the same knocking sound that just started about 1,000 miles ago. The car drives perfect but I worry that it's gonna get worse. I can post a video if that helps.
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