Welcome to Bimmerfest -- The #1 Online Community for BMW related information! Please enjoy the discussion forums below and share your experiences with the 200,000 current, new and past BMW owners. The forums are broken out by car model and into other special interest sections such as BMW European Delivery and a special forum to voice your questions to the many BMW dealers on the site to assist our members!

Please follow the links below to help get you started!

Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 5 Series > F10 / F11 (2011 - Current)

F10 / F11 (2011 - Current)
The new chapter in the highly successful story of the BMW 5 Series Sedan (F10) and wagon (F11)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #51  
Old 10-11-2010, 05:40 AM
pharding pharding is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Somewhere
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 3,031
Mein Auto: 11 550i
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimefam View Post
Plus I don't know where you get it that all 5 series drivers are 50+ I'm picking up my 550i in Munich for my 26 birthday and have several friends who are around my age and purchasing cars in this segment. ....
50+ mph is what the posts say.
__________________
04 Successfully lobbied BMW NA and BMW FS to prohibit dealers from using residual values based upon Euro Delivery MSRP and to use US MSRP saving BMW Enthusiasts several thousand dollars on each lease

14 550i Euro Del
14 X3 2.8i
11 550i Euro Del, Retired
08 550i Euro Del, Retired
06 330i Euro Del, Retired
04 545i Euro Del, Retired
01 530i Euro Del, Retired
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old 10-11-2010, 05:51 AM
quackbury's Avatar
quackbury quackbury is offline
///Monkeyazz Duck
Location: Not In Kansas Any More
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,462
Mein Auto: 535i M Sport; 328i Wagon
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimefam View Post
Plus I don't know where you get it that all 5 series drivers are 50+ I'm picking up my 550i in Munich for my 26 birthday and have several friends who are around my age and purchasing cars in this segment.
Reread my post. I didn't say "all" I said "target demographic". I was 27 when I bought my 911. I know I was unusually young to own that car (new), although I certainly wasn't the only one: there were dot com entrepreneurs and trust fund babies my age, but the bulk of new 911 owners were in their late 40's and early 50's. (When I was a driving instructor for PCA, I very rarely had any student my age, unless they owned a 944 or a used 911).

Maybe it's an overstatement to say that the F10's target market is 50-year-olds (like me), maybe it's more like 40-year-olds. (Besides, 50 is the new 30). But I do think you are an outlier. If you made the money to purchase / lease yours on yuour own, congratulations. In Munich, you will not be picking up an "old man's car", but rather a car for those with refined tastes.
__________________


Current BMW's:
2014 535i MSport Space / Black, ZCW, ZDA, ZLP, ZLS, ZPP, H-K and 704
2014 328i Sport Wagon, Glacier / Black, ZSL, ZD2, ZD3, ZDH, ZLP, ZPP, ZTP, and H-K

Prior BMW's
2011 535ix MSport
2011 X5 35D
2008 ///M3 Vert
2008 X5 3.0
2007 X5 3.0
2006 X5 3.0
2006 550iA SP
2003 540iA M-Technic
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old 10-11-2010, 05:59 AM
Needsdecaf's Avatar
Needsdecaf Needsdecaf is offline
Everything's Bigger in TX
Location: The Woodlands, TX
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,106
Mein Auto: 2007 MDX
Quote:
Originally Posted by quackbury View Post
Depends on whether your target demographic reads those mage. I'm sure the 17-year-olds out there have a lower opinion of the F10, but I don't know many 50-year-olds making north of $150,000/year who subscribe to C&D, R&T, MT or the like.

If the Robb Report, JAMA, The Economist or Barrons panned the F10 it might be different. And I think the mainline mags probably influence 3-Series buyers. F10? Not so much.

Exactly my point.

Remember, the "enthusiasts" don't buy the majority of the cars. That includes us wackos here as well as the auto-rag reading bunch as well. Many, many buyers just waltz in and buy the damn car.

The point is, it's not like overnight it feels like a Volvo or a Toyota. It still feels like a BMW, and it's not going to put off enough people to really matter.
Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old 10-11-2010, 07:07 AM
markl53's Avatar
markl53 markl53 is online now
bimmerfest Supporting Member
Location: Gaithersburg, MD
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 5,427
Mein Auto: 2011 535i
Quote:
Originally Posted by sambb View Post
I don't really care about brand image, etc. I just know what I like. I do not like a numb/dead or even Lexus like feel.
Have you actually driven a Lexus to compare to the new F10? So many people are just taking this "Lexus" statement and saying "repeat after me, repeat after me".

I drove several E60 528i service loaners and was totally underwhelmed. I just don't know what all this talk of "sport" is in relation to the E60

Quote:
Originally Posted by needsdecaf
Then I drove the F10 and thought...what the hell is everyone talking about? This machine kicks a@@!!!
To all of you simply parroting journalist quotes, just go drive an F10 then report back.
__________________
BMW-CCA
Bimmerfest Supporting Member



2014 535i Individual | Azurite Black/Amaro Brown Merino | Premium | Cold | PDC | Rear Camera | Anthracite Hdr
Prior: 2011 535i AT | Black Sapphire/Cinnamon | Premium | Heated Sts | Nav | Sirius | Anthracite Hdr & Trim
Prior: 2008 335i 6MT Sedan | Black Sapphire/Terra Leather | Premium | Cold | CA | OEM Alarm
Prior: 2005 330i 6MT | Black Sapphire/Sand Leather | Premium | Cold | UGO | OEM Alarm

Last edited by markl53; 10-11-2010 at 07:37 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old 10-11-2010, 08:45 AM
pharding pharding is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Somewhere
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 3,031
Mein Auto: 11 550i
I, for one, drive the car every day.
__________________
04 Successfully lobbied BMW NA and BMW FS to prohibit dealers from using residual values based upon Euro Delivery MSRP and to use US MSRP saving BMW Enthusiasts several thousand dollars on each lease

14 550i Euro Del
14 X3 2.8i
11 550i Euro Del, Retired
08 550i Euro Del, Retired
06 330i Euro Del, Retired
04 545i Euro Del, Retired
01 530i Euro Del, Retired
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old 10-11-2010, 12:19 PM
solstice solstice is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Seattle
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,328
Mein Auto: 2015 F80 M3
Quote:
Originally Posted by pharding View Post
I, for one, drive the car every day.
Same here.
Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old 10-11-2010, 12:49 PM
quackbury's Avatar
quackbury quackbury is offline
///Monkeyazz Duck
Location: Not In Kansas Any More
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,462
Mein Auto: 535i M Sport; 328i Wagon
I don't read auto mags any more (unless it's in a doctor's waiting room), and have driven 4 different F10's at Ultimate Drive events. All of them left me underwhelmed.
__________________


Current BMW's:
2014 535i MSport Space / Black, ZCW, ZDA, ZLP, ZLS, ZPP, H-K and 704
2014 328i Sport Wagon, Glacier / Black, ZSL, ZD2, ZD3, ZDH, ZLP, ZPP, ZTP, and H-K

Prior BMW's
2011 535ix MSport
2011 X5 35D
2008 ///M3 Vert
2008 X5 3.0
2007 X5 3.0
2006 X5 3.0
2006 550iA SP
2003 540iA M-Technic
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old 10-11-2010, 12:51 PM
jimefam jimefam is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Cumming, GA
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 730
Mein Auto: 2011 550i on order
Quote:
Originally Posted by pharding View Post
50+ mph is what the posts say.
Not the post I was referring to. And I would actually be surprised if the demographic for this car is primarily 50 year olds. I really haven't given it much though let alone researched it but I always thought of the 5 series as being for someone in their 30's or early 40's. The 7 series is what I thought of as a 50+ year olds car. Based on the responses here I guess I'm wrong. And yes I'm the one responsible for my income(no trust fund).
Reply With Quote
  #59  
Old 10-11-2010, 01:08 PM
solstice solstice is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Seattle
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,328
Mein Auto: 2015 F80 M3
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimefam View Post
Not the post I was referring to. And I would actually be surprised if the demographic for this car is primarily 50 year olds. I really haven't given it much though let alone researched it but I always thought of the 5 series as being for someone in their 30's or early 40's. The 7 series is what I thought of as a 50+ year olds car. Based on the responses here I guess I'm wrong. And yes I'm the one responsible for my income(no trust fund).
No I don't think you are wrong. From my own observations back in Europe the funfer is mainly the choice of middle class family men and women that enjoys driving and feel that they have outgrown the 3-series physically and/or mentally. Many comes from the 3-series. I'd guess the main age group is 35-55. Here in the US it's more difficult for me to place the car it seems a bit more status oriented than driver oriented here from a glance.
Reply With Quote
  #60  
Old 10-11-2010, 04:26 PM
sambb sambb is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: midamerica
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 374
Mein Auto: 550i SP, 335i c, MB AMG
I have driven the car, and lexus as well
There is no doubt, that when car and driver called the steering "spooky", it is spooky to me, a former owner of several 5 series cars.
BMW is moving away from "sports" with its car, and that is fine, but it is not exactly what I am looking for. It is a great luxury car however, no doubt. Safe too. But that steering detracts for me, it may not for others. Most car mags seem to agree on the steering.
Remember at C&D, it finished behind the infiniti M and the audi. And they are BMW fans! That is telling to some degree to me, but i dont want to pretend that it matters to everyone.
Reply With Quote
  #61  
Old 10-11-2010, 04:34 PM
solstice solstice is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Seattle
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,328
Mein Auto: 2015 F80 M3
If bmw do not respond to this criticism with attempts to improve the steering it tells me that their priorities have changed and after the F10 I will find another brand that prioritizes the enthusiast, most likely it will be Porsche.
Reply With Quote
  #62  
Old 10-11-2010, 09:55 PM
B-1 Pilot's Avatar
B-1 Pilot B-1 Pilot is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: USA
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 257
Mein Auto: M5, R1200RT
So went on yet another F10 test-drive this weekend, and two things came up that I think are relevant to whats being discussed here.

First, the test drive was for my wife, not me... I want a new BMW bike AND a 550ix.. the only way this will happen is if we trade in her 1.5 year old 335. She is afraid that the 5 is just too big for her; I say lets go drive one and see. We get in a plain 535 (cause the dealer had no 550, no Xs obviously, and none with any type of sports pacakge). She drives it and thinks its a bit bigger than her three and more luxiourious, but that she likes how smooth the steering is compared to her 3! I at this point am doing everything to contain myself from laughing out loud since I configured the 335 for her (maxed), and think that the steering in the F10 is a bit numb compared to the 3... I just personally want the larger size and luxury, and can sacrifice the connectedness (and with full sport package I think it drives pretty dang well.... Im waiting to test drive an iX before committing one way or another), but she is happy with the 'smoothness' of the car (Full disclosure were both in our early 30's).

Second, while we are there, this relatively small dealership sells 2 of the 5 F10s they have on the lot from walk-up older couples (to use your metric, +50yrs) They both buy white car, beige interior, oyster headliner -- one a 528, one a 535, both with little to no options (premium package only I believe). The guy I'm working with says they represent about 2/3 to 3/4 of the sales. The rest are passionate enthusiasts who come in with varying ranges of knowledge but like to order custom cars with their exact specifications. I guess the question is who does BMW truly respond to?

I think that the enthusiast, though in the minority, is the more learned and vocal, and the wishes and desires of these people tend to push for things that will benefit all. BMW of course will have to look at how their profits are affected overall in any attempts to answer to enthusiast demand for their 'mid-range' sedan.
__________________
2014 ///M5 w/CP || Read my EPIC European Delivery report here|| 2013 335ix || 2009 BMW R1200RT

Last edited by B-1 Pilot; 10-11-2010 at 09:58 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #63  
Old 10-12-2010, 01:12 AM
bm323 bm323 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: singapore
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 477
Mein Auto: 2013 F10
Yes, and "enthusiasts" (especially those who have less than 3 year old cars and not ready to buy any car as yet ie excluding solstice and a few others) will want to brag how numb the f10's steering is Why not check out the Lotus' steering and see how numb the steering is on the E46 and E90, yes and the F10, and the many enthusiasts who will dispose of their 3 series and buy the Lotus

Last edited by bm323; 10-12-2010 at 01:39 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #64  
Old 10-12-2010, 06:17 AM
kocsis kocsis is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Boston, MA
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 285
Mein Auto: 2006 Porsche C4S
For every car manufacturer, profits come from the vocal minority opinion leaders who create the buzz, not the silent majority who buys based on brand and looks (though they too are affected by the buzz). Moreover, profits come from the marginal sales represented by the enthusiasts, who are more likely to switch brands based on performance. I have driven BMWs for 30 years, stepped up from a 3 to 5 when I bought my E39 M5, and was about to switch to the Audi S4 because of some of these BMW "numbness" issues. I did stick with the 500ix Msport (on boat, leaving Bremerhaven tomorrow), but am still somewhat ambivalent. Though I am heartened that the ix has hydraulic steering (according to this board) and not electronic, and my packages including the sport shifter should maximize performance. I am though troubled that BMW is achieving performance "virtually" - not by engineering the car for performance, but rather "emulating" it by electronics. In contrast, the S4 is built for honest performance - suspension, steering, etc. But it's a bit small, and there is still that 30 year loyalty factor.... Now if the reliability starts to suffer - forget about it!
Reply With Quote
  #65  
Old 10-12-2010, 06:38 AM
CAFleming CAFleming is offline
Registered User
Location: Indy
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 91
Mein Auto: BMW, Porsche
I find this thread very interesting. In March of 2001 I bought a 330 cab. I had ordered it 8 months earlier, because the cabs were new then and considerably backordered. Apparently some customers (NOT driving enthusiasts, no doubt) complained that the steering was too heavy in the 2000 E46s at parking speeds. BMW responded by lightening the steering feel of the 2001 models. The enthusiasts then rebelled, labeling the 2001 models "The Ultimate Parking Machine", an underhanded reference to BMW's "Ultimate Driving Machine" slogan.

Enough fuss was made by the enthusiast side, and BMW responded by offering 2001 owners a chance to revert to the heavier feel steering rack at no charge. I did the retrofit, and I was happy with the change, although I must say the E46 cabs never handled all that well anyway.

For the 2002 models, BMW quietly equipped all standard E46s with the heavier feeling rack, and the issue was over.

Nowadays, of course, with electronically controlled systems, one can have both extra assist at parking speeds, and less boost at higher speeds. Unfortunately, when it comes to steering feedback, I think both come up short.

Last edited by CAFleming; 10-12-2010 at 06:39 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #66  
Old 10-12-2010, 08:03 AM
markl53's Avatar
markl53 markl53 is online now
bimmerfest Supporting Member
Location: Gaithersburg, MD
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 5,427
Mein Auto: 2011 535i
Quote:
Originally Posted by kocsis View Post
I am though troubled that BMW is achieving performance "virtually" - not by engineering the car for performance, but rather "emulating" it by electronics. In contrast, the S4 is built for honest performance - suspension, steering, etc.
Well, the car has to be designed at the maximum performance level, regardless of how that performance is achieved right? Meaning, if the driver has the ability to adjust performance parameters for themselves, the car was still built for the highest level available. To me, turning the dial to less than max just means to car is currently working lower than what it is capable of. I'm not sure you've lost anything in the end.
__________________
BMW-CCA
Bimmerfest Supporting Member



2014 535i Individual | Azurite Black/Amaro Brown Merino | Premium | Cold | PDC | Rear Camera | Anthracite Hdr
Prior: 2011 535i AT | Black Sapphire/Cinnamon | Premium | Heated Sts | Nav | Sirius | Anthracite Hdr & Trim
Prior: 2008 335i 6MT Sedan | Black Sapphire/Terra Leather | Premium | Cold | CA | OEM Alarm
Prior: 2005 330i 6MT | Black Sapphire/Sand Leather | Premium | Cold | UGO | OEM Alarm
Reply With Quote
  #67  
Old 10-12-2010, 08:32 AM
B-1 Pilot's Avatar
B-1 Pilot B-1 Pilot is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: USA
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 257
Mein Auto: M5, R1200RT
Quote:
Originally Posted by kocsis View Post
I am though troubled that BMW is achieving performance "virtually" - not by engineering the car for performance, but rather "emulating" it by electronics.

Heh, if we had followed this logic in the flying world, there would be no fly-by-wire (which allows high precise G and maneuverability), there would be no stealth and flying wing capabilities, etc. There's a reason why many car manufacturers are looking into high performance electric cars -- not to go green, but to go fast.

I think in the end it will be the same argument as those who feel the need to run the clutch and stick-shift themselves -- as technology supersedes human capability, nostalgia is often misconstrued as better performance.

The thing that sets BMW apart from others for me is that they seek technology for performance first, then comfort and convenience -- I dont think the same can be said for MB, Audi or the luxury hondas and toyotas.
__________________
2014 ///M5 w/CP || Read my EPIC European Delivery report here|| 2013 335ix || 2009 BMW R1200RT
Reply With Quote
  #68  
Old 10-12-2010, 09:28 AM
ihumphrey ihumphrey is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Dayton, OH
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 559
Mein Auto: 2011 535ix and 2011 X5
Quote:
Originally Posted by B-1 Pilot View Post
Heh, if we had followed this logic in the flying world, there would be no fly-by-wire (which allows high precise G and maneuverability), there would be no stealth and flying wing capabilities, etc. There's a reason why many car manufacturers are looking into high performance electric cars -- not to go green, but to go fast.

I think in the end it will be the same argument as those who feel the need to run the clutch and stick-shift themselves -- as technology supersedes human capability, nostalgia is often misconstrued as better performance.

The thing that sets BMW apart from others for me is that they seek technology for performance first, then comfort and convenience -- I dont think the same can be said for MB, Audi or the luxury hondas and toyotas.
+1
Reply With Quote
  #69  
Old 10-12-2010, 11:56 AM
solstice solstice is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Seattle
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,328
Mein Auto: 2015 F80 M3
"The thing that sets BMW apart from others for me is that they seek technology for performance first, then comfort and convenience"

If this is true how do you explain the weight gain and the soft springs on the F10 that compromises even the Sports setting with dhp to the soft side?
These are to me both signs of putting comfort and convinience ahead of performance, especially dhp in it's current setup is technology to cater for the Buick crowd not the enthusiast.

Last edited by solstice; 10-12-2010 at 11:58 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #70  
Old 10-12-2010, 11:58 AM
quackbury's Avatar
quackbury quackbury is offline
///Monkeyazz Duck
Location: Not In Kansas Any More
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,462
Mein Auto: 535i M Sport; 328i Wagon
Quote:
Originally Posted by B-1 Pilot View Post
I think that the enthusiast, though in the minority, is the more learned and vocal, and the wishes and desires of these people tend to push for things that will benefit all. BMW of course will have to look at how their profits are affected overall in any attempts to answer to enthusiast demand for their 'mid-range' sedan.
Willing to bet you the two older couples were more "profitable" to the dealership than any two of us would have been. They probably negotiated down from MSRP, instead of up from invoice, and thought they got a steal for getting a $1,000 discount off sticker.

Quote:
Originally Posted by B-1 Pilot View Post
I think in the end it will be the same argument as those who feel the need to run the clutch and stick-shift themselves -- as technology supersedes human capability, nostalgia is often misconstrued as better performance.
Well for this 6MT driver, nostalgia is also construed as more fun. Be honest now: if someone offerd you a pristine P51D, wouldn't love to be behind that big ole, old tech Merlin?

PS Assuming you are still on active duty: THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	P51.jpg
Views:	61
Size:	65.1 KB
ID:	250093  
__________________


Current BMW's:
2014 535i MSport Space / Black, ZCW, ZDA, ZLP, ZLS, ZPP, H-K and 704
2014 328i Sport Wagon, Glacier / Black, ZSL, ZD2, ZD3, ZDH, ZLP, ZPP, ZTP, and H-K

Prior BMW's
2011 535ix MSport
2011 X5 35D
2008 ///M3 Vert
2008 X5 3.0
2007 X5 3.0
2006 X5 3.0
2006 550iA SP
2003 540iA M-Technic
Reply With Quote
  #71  
Old 10-12-2010, 12:53 PM
solstice solstice is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Seattle
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,328
Mein Auto: 2015 F80 M3
What quackbury says is so true. All of the manufacturers in this segment produces cars with more outright performance in terms of speed than most buyers use. The question to me for a road car is not mainly "how fast" but "how fun". Anyone saw Top Gear yesterday? There were two examples, first Richard Hammon that prefered the Camaro over the E-class AMG even if the AMG crushed the Camaro in performance and then all of the presenters who prefered the Quattroporte over the Panamera and the Rapide even if it had by far the lowest performance but it stirred the senses in a way that the others did not, it was more fun.

Last edited by solstice; 10-12-2010 at 12:54 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #72  
Old 10-12-2010, 01:39 PM
quackbury's Avatar
quackbury quackbury is offline
///Monkeyazz Duck
Location: Not In Kansas Any More
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,462
Mein Auto: 535i M Sport; 328i Wagon
Since I've already taken us OT .... here's a guy who might well prefer the tactile over the tech. (Watch what he does at the end):



I grew up in Reading PA, and had the pleasure of seeing him perform at the Reading Airshow several times. He'd fly this jaw-dropping routine in his P51 "Old Yeller", then climb out and repeat it in the stodgy Aero Commander Shrike. Jimmy Doolittle described him as the "ultimate stick and rudder guy". Somehow, I don't think it would be as impressive watching him fly a RPV.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled kvetching.....
__________________


Current BMW's:
2014 535i MSport Space / Black, ZCW, ZDA, ZLP, ZLS, ZPP, H-K and 704
2014 328i Sport Wagon, Glacier / Black, ZSL, ZD2, ZD3, ZDH, ZLP, ZPP, ZTP, and H-K

Prior BMW's
2011 535ix MSport
2011 X5 35D
2008 ///M3 Vert
2008 X5 3.0
2007 X5 3.0
2006 X5 3.0
2006 550iA SP
2003 540iA M-Technic
Reply With Quote
  #73  
Old 10-12-2010, 04:28 PM
B-1 Pilot's Avatar
B-1 Pilot B-1 Pilot is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: USA
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 257
Mein Auto: M5, R1200RT
I fly for a living (yes, I'm still active duty, and appreciate your thanks), and I am certifiable aircraft buff, though I really have no desire to go flying in light aircraft and i loathe the airlines.

I much rather enjoy spending my free time and money on motorcycles and cars! I ride a ridiculously overpowered motorcycle for the same reason you drive a 6MT -- it's fun! I realize what solstice and others are saying about the perceived compromises; but feel is one thing, actual performance is another.. until we have full, independent track data we wont know if they truly sacrificed performance for the obvious additions of luxury that are in the new F10. That being said, the opinions of those who actually own the car (especially if you owned an E60 prior) are the ones of most value to me -- my 3 test drives in no way match your empirical data, and I look forward to your posts

The elephant in the room are the M types... The M3 is obviously there for those who want lighter, more connected ride. The F-10 550 comes close to M3 performance numbers, but unless you are at Nurburgring are you going to notice the difference? I think the M5 will be the ultimate performance sedan... I just don't know if I will be able to afford it.

Will BMW fix the deficiencies in the current F10? I say probably at some point because the hardware is more than adequate, all that is required is some software tuning -- but I dont think that all F10 drivers will even want such a change, if and when it is offered.

B-1

Oh yeah by the way Bob Hoover is the s*#t... read Chuck Yeager's autobiography sometime, and even he says what a badass pilot Bob Hoover is.
__________________
2014 ///M5 w/CP || Read my EPIC European Delivery report here|| 2013 335ix || 2009 BMW R1200RT
Reply With Quote
  #74  
Old 10-12-2010, 07:08 PM
kocsis kocsis is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Boston, MA
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 285
Mein Auto: 2006 Porsche C4S
It's interesting that the "B-1 Pilot" made the observation about technology. I recall that many B-1s were crashed because pilots didn't trust the electronics that were guiding the plane and took over control...then crashed. The logical extension of B-1 Pilot's argument is the Google car (see Sunday's New York Times) that controls itself without human intervention. According to Google, it doubles highway capacity and is safer than human driving. But what would all of us on this board do? Sit in the car and pretend we're driving like our two year olds who sit in a fake car with a fake steering wheel and go "zoom-zoom"?
Reply With Quote
  #75  
Old 10-12-2010, 07:25 PM
jimefam jimefam is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Cumming, GA
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 730
Mein Auto: 2011 550i on order
Quote:
Originally Posted by kocsis View Post
It's interesting that the "B-1 Pilot" made the observation about technology. I recall that many B-1s were crashed because pilots didn't trust the electronics that were guiding the plane and took over control...then crashed. The logical extension of B-1 Pilot's argument is the Google car (see Sunday's New York Times) that controls itself without human intervention. According to Google, it doubles highway capacity and is safer than human driving. But what would all of us on this board do? Sit in the car and pretend we're driving like our two year olds who sit in a fake car with a fake steering wheel and go "zoom-zoom"?
No we would keep a "real" car for pleasurable driving when we wanted to. I have a 1989 240sx with a skyline engine in it that I LOVE. Whenever I'm too annoyed with the f10's steering I will drive that for a day. I disconnected the power steering as the engine is from a RHD car and rerunning the PS lines would have been a pain. Talk about responsive and fun to drive steering! Would be terrible for a DD but on occasion there is nothing better.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Forum Navigation
Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 5 Series > F10 / F11 (2011 - Current)
Today's Posts Search
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On



Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:04 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
© 2001-2011 performanceIX, Inc. All Rights Reserved .: guidelines .:. privacy .:. terms