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  #26  
Old 11-10-2010, 11:50 PM
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Andrew*Debbie Andrew*Debbie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quackbury View Post
BTW I just clicked on the OP's name and the "read all posts" feature. Surprise, surprise: all 32 posts she has made (I'm assuming from the sig the OP is a she) concern her problems with her vehicle, and her over-arching vendetta against BMW.

Oh, the drama!
Time to let this thread die then. OP will never admit to or understand the legal difference between a lemon law buyback and a voluntary "trade assist" buyback.
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  #27  
Old 11-11-2010, 07:03 AM
maof2girls maof2girls is offline
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Wink

I know the difference, I also know that BMW sells outstanding autos... when they are not in "limp mode"
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  #28  
Old 12-03-2010, 08:08 PM
RBinDC RBinDC is offline
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Originally Posted by SARAFIL View Post
BMW will not CPO a car that was repurchased under a state lemon law. Once it is repurchased under the lemon law, it is also "branded" in BMW's system which makes it ineligible to be enrolled in the CPO program.

They can CPO a car that has been traded in under the "trade assist" program, which is not the lemon law.

So your next question... do they sneak cars into the "trade assist" program to avoid branding them as lemons? The answer is definitely NO. I know that the first thing they check on every trade assist package (and they tell every dealer to check this before even thinking about doing a trade assist) is that the car does not meet state lemon law requirements. If it does, they will not approve the trade assist and will require the dealer to go through the lemon law.
This is consistent with an experience I had last year. I visited a dealership near Baltimore that had a low mileage M3 for sale at a very attractive price. I asked if the car was a CPO. The salesman said no and that they would not CPO it. He then said BMW bought the car back from the original owner because he claimed the adjustable suspension did not work. The salesman claimed that BMW could not find anything wrong with the vehicle.

At the time I didn't think much about it but now I think the car was repurchased as a lemon, which would explain why they would not CPO it.
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  #29  
Old 12-15-2010, 12:46 AM
anE934fun anE934fun is offline
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Originally Posted by RBinDC View Post
This is consistent with an experience I had last year. I visited a dealership near Baltimore that had a low mileage M3 for sale at a very attractive price. I asked if the car was a CPO. The salesman said no and that they would not CPO it. He then said BMW bought the car back from the original owner because he claimed the adjustable suspension did not work. The salesman claimed that BMW could not find anything wrong with the vehicle.

At the time I didn't think much about it but now I think the car was repurchased as a lemon, which would explain why they would not CPO it.
If the car is repurchased as a lemon, there will be a title restriction that identifies the car as a lemon law repurchase (at least in California). The title restriction will show up in the Carfax report.
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  #30  
Old 01-07-2011, 09:32 AM
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BayAreaBimmer BayAreaBimmer is offline
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This is extremely common in the 135i's. In fact, i've heard they're so common in the 135's that BMW will replace the HPFP no questions asked. Seems like you're better off getting the 128i due to the fact that they have no HPFP.
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  #31  
Old 05-15-2011, 04:13 PM
ProRail ProRail is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maof2girls View Post
Is BMW Selling Bought-Back Lemons as 'Certified Pre-Owned'?

ABC News reported on Oct. 26 that it had an 'exclusive' report on problems with BMW (BAMXY) vehicles that could suddenly lose power due to defective high-pressure fuel pumps (HPFP). That's a story I broke over three months ago on DailyFinance. But no matter, at least the ABC story appears to have sparked BMW into announcing it would recall 151,000 vehicles affected by the HPFP problem and replace their fuel pumps and add new software.

(I hope that solves the problem, but two BMW owners I spoke with for my original reporting on this problem in July had their fuel pumps replaced, and it didn't fix the issue. Both owners eventually sold their vehicles back to the manufacturer. Perhaps BMW has a solution now that will work.)

While BMW has finally admitted the need for a recall (earlier, it had not done so despite numerous customers' complaints about the fuel-pump problem), the ultimate-driving-machine-maker now also faces a related charge: that it's buying back these vehicles from owners and reselling them without disclosing their sordid history. That's according to Robert Silverman, founding partner of law firm Kimmel & Silverman in Ambler, Pa., who's representing many current and former BMW owners.

Silverman alleges that BMW has been buying back these vehicles and reselling them with titles that don't reveal to the new buyers that the cars were bought back and the specific reason why they were bought back. Silverman says that results in a so-called laundered title.

Read full article - http://www.dailyfinance.com/story/is...wned/19669684/
Good story, but I'm finding it hard to get over the fact that you are "maof2girls" and your first name is Peter. I'm sorry; things like that distract me from the intended message. Okay; I'm done.
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  #32  
Old 05-15-2011, 05:19 PM
maof2girls maof2girls is offline
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Peter wrote the article, I posted it. Mystery solved.
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  #33  
Old 05-17-2011, 12:04 PM
Naldo Naldo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RBinDC View Post
This is consistent with an experience I had last year. I visited a dealership near Baltimore that had a low mileage M3 for sale at a very attractive price. I asked if the car was a CPO. The salesman said no and that they would not CPO it. He then said BMW bought the car back from the original owner because he claimed the adjustable suspension did not work. The salesman claimed that BMW could not find anything wrong with the vehicle.

At the time I didn't think much about it but now I think the car was repurchased as a lemon, which would explain why they would not CPO it.
There are a few reasons that the M3 could not be CPOd, one of the more common is that a new M3 is sold with "break-in" oil and must be changed at 1200 miles, though you do have up to 2400 miles to do this break in oil change. If this oil change does not take place then the M3 can not be CPOd ever.

Many a CA neglects to inform the buyer of a new M3 about this and while it might have a negligible effect on that buyer, any future buyer loses out.
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  #34  
Old 05-20-2011, 09:42 AM
mhrir mhrir is offline
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Originally Posted by quackbury View Post
Why is everyone getting their knickers in a knot?

A CPO is a USED CAR that the manufacturer is warranting. If you are buying a USED CAR, you are taking the chance that it has a "story" - crash damage, repo, trade assist, whatever. Can you imagine anyone making a stink because the used Hyundai they bought at Swifty Soprano's Used Cars had a problem? At least the CPO comes with a warranty - good luck getting Swifty to stand behind the iron he's moving.

There is a problem if - and ONLY if - BMW is laundering titles and misrepresenting a car that under the relevant state statutes is deemed to be a "lemon". There is a lot of bluster here, but I have yet to see any EVIDENCE that BMWUSA wittingly or unwittingly laundered the title of even one vehicle.

Sounds to me like a bunch of sleazy lawyers trolling for business. And second-rate journalists hungry for a splashy headline.

Any mass-produced human-made product is going to have variations in quality (Google Edward Deming). It is inevitable that a sample of new cars will have problems that are challenging to fix; and regular 'Fest members have certainly seen examples of this, not just with the F10 but in vitrually every other BMW model. I give BMWUSA huge props for standing behind the product they distribute (not manufacture), via the trade assist program.
+1

I will add that a car becomes a "lemon" when settlement under the terms of the statute has been completed. It does not automatically become a lemon when the requirement of the individual state statute or Magnuson-Moss Act has been reached. In Illinois, for example, the statute requires that the owner first has to go through an "informal" settlement procedure with the manufacturer. Only when the owner is dissatisfied with the outcome of the informal procedure can they then initiate a civil action to enforce their rights under the statute.

So at anytime the manufacturer can buy back or trade assist the defective vehicle and circumvent the car being branded a "lemon". There is nothing illegal or imoral about this. A buyer of any pre-owned vehicle should do their due diligence to determine the history of the car. Caveat emptor.
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  #35  
Old 02-01-2014, 06:35 AM
sgi4side sgi4side is offline
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BMW is still doing it.

BMW is still doing this. Last year I bought a 550I in IL with a clear title and brought the car back to CA to register. The title came out as lemon buy back.
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  #36  
Old 02-01-2014, 06:54 AM
bmw325 bmw325 is offline
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Curious- what is the proper way for manufacturers to handle lemons? Are they meant to be "destroyed"? Or just disclosed to the buyer?

Have a feeling that its not "BMW" that is involved in some of these sleazy stories but individual dealers. Car gets lemoned, sent to a large dealer auction, dealer from another state purchases and knowingly or not "launders" the title.
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  #37  
Old 02-02-2014, 05:57 AM
maof2girls maof2girls is offline
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It might be reasonable to assume that they are disassembled and crushed by the manufacturer, since they've already been determined to be unrepairable. But that isn't what usually happens.

The cars are often resold to other buyers, who may not be aware that the car is a lemon.

Manufacturers say that when they buy back a lemon, they fix the problem before sending it to a dealer auction and that paperwork is done to identify the vehicle as a "lemon buyback," much the way vehicles decaled total losses by insurance companies are supposed to be branded as "salvage."

But fewer than half the states require that lemon buybacks be designated as such on their titles. And even when a car is labeled a lemon, that designation can conveniently be lost if a car is sold in a state other than the one where a lemon law case was pursued.
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  #38  
Old 02-03-2014, 02:36 PM
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timfitz63 timfitz63 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmw325 View Post
... Car gets lemoned, sent to a large dealer auction, dealer from another state purchases and knowingly or not "launders" the title.
Quote:
Originally Posted by maof2girls View Post
... The cars are often resold to other buyers, who may not be aware that the car is a lemon.

Manufacturers say that when they buy back a lemon, they fix the problem before sending it to a dealer auction and that paperwork is done to identify the vehicle as a "lemon buyback," much the way vehicles decaled total losses by insurance companies are supposed to be branded as "salvage."

But fewer than half the states require that lemon buybacks be designated as such on their titles. And even when a car is labeled a lemon, that designation can conveniently be lost if a car is sold in a state other than the one where a lemon law case was pursued.
I can say with some authority that this is almost assuredly what happens. Some years ago, I owned a 9-month-old GMC Jimmy that was bought back under PA lemon law; I later learned that the vehicle was held by the buyback dealer for a period of time, sold at a dealer-only auction, then subsequently bought by a likely unsuspecting consumer.

Like the old saying goes: caveat emptor...
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  #39  
Old 02-03-2014, 04:02 PM
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Campfamily Campfamily is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timfitz63 View Post
I can say with some authority that this is almost assuredly what happens. Some years ago, I owned a 9-month-old GMC Jimmy that was bought back under PA lemon law; I later learned that the vehicle was held by the buyback dealer for a period of time, sold at a dealer-only auction, then subsequently bought by a likely unsuspecting consumer.

Like the old saying goes: caveat emptor...
^^^ DITTO ^^^ I lemon-lawed a Nissan Armada back in 2005 for bad brakes. Nissan wholesaled the truck out in Tennessee. The branding of the title does show up if you run a CarFax on it, but would be real curious to know if that was disclosed to the person who ultimately ended up buying it.
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  #40  
Old 02-03-2014, 04:52 PM
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dannyc9997 dannyc9997 is offline
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Originally Posted by Campfamily View Post
^^^ DITTO ^^^ I lemon-lawed a Nissan Armada back in 2005 for bad brakes. Nissan wholesaled the truck out in Tennessee. The branding of the title does show up if you run a CarFax on it, but would be real curious to know if that was disclosed to the person who ultimately ended up buying it.
If the issue was completely rectified, does it matter? I.E. I'm sure you've sold a vehicle which had problems in the past which were corrected, did you notify the buyer of said long gone issues?
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  #41  
Old 02-04-2014, 06:42 AM
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If the issue was completely rectified, does it matter? I.E. I'm sure you've sold a vehicle which had problems in the past which were corrected, did you notify the buyer of said long gone issues?
That's a good point, hadn't thought about it that way. Guess the feeling is that if the dealer / manufacturer hadn't been able to fix the problem before it was bought back, what makes you think they were able to after they bought it back? In my case, the problem wasn't fixed in four tries at two different dealers and after a visit from the corporate rep.
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  #42  
Old 02-04-2014, 09:44 AM
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timfitz63 timfitz63 is offline
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Originally Posted by dannyc9997 View Post
If the issue was completely rectified, does it matter...?
In a perfect world, no. In the case of the GMC I had, there was no rectifying the problem...

After only 9 months and a grand total of 3,000 miles on the odometer (it had spent most of its time to that point parked in my garage, as I was using a different vehicle as my daily-driver), the vehicle had such extensive corrosion on all of the undercarriage components that GM would have -- literally -- had to lift the body off of the frame and replace it. I guarantee they didn't do that before re-selling it; in fact, I know that all they did was to bead-blast the undercarriage and re-applied the undercoating. They never explained the underlying cause (of which I can only speculate, based on circumstantial evidence) -- nor did they make any real attempt to correct it. They covered it with a band-aid and re-sold the truck.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dannyc9997 View Post
... I'm sure you've sold a vehicle which had problems in the past which were corrected, did you notify the buyer of said long gone issues?
Personally, I've supplied all maintenance records to buyers whenever I've sold a used vehicle, and have disclosed major maintenance issues that were long-since corrected. Maybe I'm just odd, but I try my best to follow the Golden Rule ("Do unto others...").

But even major maintenance issues that are fully documented and corrected are not the problem where buyers and sellers are concerned; its those insidious ones that are hidden just long enough to get a buyer to hand over the cash that gets our goats...
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  #43  
Old 02-13-2014, 09:28 AM
timthepug timthepug is offline
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Maybe they should create a separate acronym for these cars: C.P.O.S.
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