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F10 / F11 (2011 - Current)
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  #26  
Old 11-02-2010, 08:01 AM
solstice solstice is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joshbw View Post
This sounds like the same problem I have had for 3 years on my E60. Now and again at low speeds when I turn the wheel hard to the right I hear that sound. I spoke to my dealer about it and they looked but couldn't pin it down. Being that it only happened when doing low speed tight maneuvering I never really cared, but like I said I have had that exact thing on my E60 for 3 years now.....
joshbw, do you have ars on your E60 550i ( any kind of bmw sports pkg. )?
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  #27  
Old 11-02-2010, 08:21 AM
pharding pharding is offline
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I have have DHP and IAS and my 550i is fine without any noises.
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  #28  
Old 11-02-2010, 08:28 AM
solstice solstice is offline
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pharding, this is not a problem on all ars equipped cars. I had ars on my E60 and never a peep, I also did not have it on my F10 until they repaired my ars. Though I suspect this is a fault in the ars system somewhere. Either a defect in the pump or incorrect fluid or fluid level. These are guesses since my grinding started immediately after the ars repair and was not present ever before that. It could of course also be that something other than ars was mounted incorrectly. We'll see what the techs say but it is definately interresting to know if ars is a common denominator among the cars that experience this symptom.

Last edited by solstice; 11-02-2010 at 08:30 AM.
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  #29  
Old 11-02-2010, 01:35 PM
solstice solstice is offline
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Back from the shop. The grinding did not show up during the techs short test drive. Not surprising since I usually notice it shortly into the first drive of the day and not at full operation temperature that the car was at when I brought it in. Nevertheless a 3h inspection of potential sources was performed but no obvious cause could be found. The car is deemed safe to drive and it was decided that if the problem persists I'll leave the car overnight so that the tech can do a test drive from cold. We also discussed that maybe this is a "break-in" of the system after all the flushing and replacements of fluids that some replacement from the filler can takes place when the oil is cool and "smaller" and that it can cause some pump reverberations until the system is fully settled. We'll see. To the others that has observed this issue on their cars please keep this thread updated with your progress.

Last edited by solstice; 11-02-2010 at 01:38 PM.
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  #30  
Old 11-02-2010, 01:49 PM
brandonw brandonw is offline
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Thanks for follow-up Solstice. I have not taken my car in. I wish they had been able to identify the problem of course form your visit.

From me driving today at lunch doing some errands, I noticed this several times. Mostly while maneuvering in parking lots (the slow speeds, regular acceleration and turning). It seems when I try to reproduce it, I cant. But more so today, I am thinking it has to do when the weight of the entire car gives to the right or left, as if something that should be staying in place is swaying, which could explain the link to the steering. I really think this is something to do with the drive shaft. When it occurs, its as if something turning is rubbing something else and this vibrating the rest of the car. I can feel it pretty well from the center console when it occurs and only slightly through the steering wheel. and
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Last edited by brandonw; 11-02-2010 at 01:50 PM.
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  #31  
Old 11-02-2010, 02:41 PM
solstice solstice is offline
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brandonw I also think it's when the car shifts weight from side to side which would make the suspension the main suspect. ars is there to counter act the body roll and is a very powerful system with a lot of pressure. It can hoist the car about 8 inches from side to side when manipulated manually. When your car shifts weight ars opens valves and pressurizes the side that needs to take on more weight to stiffen it and counter act body roll. If the pump runs dry or with air bubbles it could likely give severe vibrations and grinding noises. It could of course also be something else, it's just that my car did not have this issue that sounds exactly like yours until ars was repaired.

The ars pump is mounted on the engine if that could match up with what you suspect is where the source of the grinding can originate from.

Last edited by solstice; 11-02-2010 at 02:44 PM.
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  #32  
Old 11-03-2010, 11:06 AM
brandonw brandonw is offline
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Originally Posted by brandonw View Post
Thanks for follow-up Solstice. I have not taken my car in. I wish they had been able to identify the problem of course form your visit.

From me driving today at lunch doing some errands, I noticed this several times. Mostly while maneuvering in parking lots (the slow speeds, regular acceleration and turning). It seems when I try to reproduce it, I cant. But more so today, I am thinking it has to do when the weight of the entire car gives to the right or left, as if something that should be staying in place is swaying, which could explain the link to the steering. I really think this is something to do with the drive shaft. When it occurs, its as if something turning is rubbing something else and this vibrating the rest of the car. I can feel it pretty well from the center console when it occurs and only slightly through the steering wheel. and
To add a little more info... Where seem to get it more regularly is say, you are stopped at a light and wanting to make a right turn, thus you might have the wheel slightly already turned. The road you are stopped on has a slight incline - boom, grinding. As I am trying to notice it more, at different times, it feels like the grinding is in more than once place on and off, again as though something is loose.
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  #33  
Old 11-03-2010, 12:45 PM
solstice solstice is offline
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Originally Posted by brandonw View Post
To add a little more info... Where seem to get it more regularly is say, you are stopped at a light and wanting to make a right turn, thus you might have the wheel slightly already turned. The road you are stopped on has a slight incline - boom, grinding. As I am trying to notice it more, at different times, it feels like the grinding is in more than once place on and off, again as though something is loose.
Exactly like mine. I have a traffic light on my way to work at a slight incline. Here I stop to first make an almost 180 left turn up a hill followed by a 120 degree right hander, followed by another traffic light and a 90 degree right turn, all up hill. I get the grinding every morning at this place. First I just observed it when doing the right turns but today it was at the initial left turn after the traffic light. I have observed it at a few other locations as when pulling out of a parking lot on Saturday but now when I think about it I think my car was parked at a slight incline at the parking lot. Time to put the stop/parked at an incline followed by a turn theory to the test a bit more.

Last edited by solstice; 11-03-2010 at 02:15 PM.
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  #34  
Old 11-03-2010, 01:38 PM
biggerkahuna biggerkahuna is offline
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This is bittersweet. Sad this is a problem but glad that it's not only me. Ive taken my 550i in twice already and was never able to get them to hear the sound thus not getting the problem fixed. Sounds very similar to when my differential had an issue on my E60 M5. It's going in again this weekend. Now I have more possibilities. Thanks guys!
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  #35  
Old 11-03-2010, 03:23 PM
solstice solstice is offline
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I made some attempts to reproduce today at lunch time. No success. It's more to it than just to stop at an incline and then accelerate through a sharp turn. If you manage to reproduce it with any regularity or notice another factors that could contribute please post them.
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  #36  
Old 11-03-2010, 05:36 PM
brandonw brandonw is offline
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I had to drive through a large parking deck today and I encountered it several times. Plus just drive in the crowded city, stop and stop, lots of turns and lots of stop and go acceleration. I guess I am going to have to abduct a service tech and just drive around until it happens. Errrr....
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  #37  
Old 11-05-2010, 09:49 AM
solstice solstice is offline
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Any updates on this issue? Has anyone else been to the dealer or managed to find a way to reproduce it with a good level of regularity? This issue is seriosuly annoying, yesterday I counted to ten occasions in a short time frame during my morning commute . I then went back later in the day and re-traced the same route without a single occurance. This morning it was back again. On my car it seems to be most frequent within the first 30 minutes of a drive that begins with a cold car. However I don't feel confident that I will manage to reproduce it at another dealer visit at this point of time, I need a more reliable way to reproduce first. Please let me know if you observe something useful or have feedback from a dealer visit.
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  #38  
Old 11-05-2010, 09:58 AM
kocsis kocsis is offline
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what about recording the noise on your iPhone or something?
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  #39  
Old 11-05-2010, 10:04 AM
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1HOT BMR 1HOT BMR is offline
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Have you thought of recording it and sending the sound file to your tech?

I just saw the post above mine

Last edited by 1HOT BMR; 11-05-2010 at 10:06 AM. Reason: Same thought, same time, wow.
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  #40  
Old 11-05-2010, 10:13 AM
solstice solstice is offline
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Originally Posted by 1HOT BMR View Post
Have you thought of recording it and sending the sound file to your tech?

I just saw the post above mine
Good idea. Though I'm not sure how identifiable it will be without the vibrations. My phone is not an Iphone or anything closely as sophisticated but it can record audio so I'll make a recording and see if the issue can be heard.
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  #41  
Old 11-05-2010, 04:53 PM
rudegar rudegar is offline
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Grinding noise

I have the same grinding noise most noticable in parking lot when cold more left than right. I have 550i without active steering
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  #42  
Old 11-06-2010, 06:37 AM
brandonw brandonw is offline
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This is so frustrating. As soon as I think I an replicate it, I cant. Mine seems to not be as frequent as it used to be. But then at certain time, there is goes. Still most noticeable in a parking lot, parking garage, starting from a slight incline etc...

I am glad (but sorry as well) that a few others are starting to report this issue. Though, I am surprised that there are not more. It seems thus far, its not limited to any one model. I cant tell the common thing we all have, maybe Dynamic Handling Package with or without M-Sport? Maybe the lack of other reports is the week of production, maybe a bad lot?? I was a week 35 production.

I really hope more people report this as more people get their cars. It's a catch 22, as I don't hope the problem on people, but at the same time, the more with the problem, the more BMW will look into.
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  #43  
Old 11-06-2010, 07:35 AM
BMWTX BMWTX is offline
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Yes, I have the DHP and the steering noise/vibrations. Sounds like the tire rubbing against something at very low speed turning to the left/right. Felt vibrations in steering wheel on one occasion.
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  #44  
Old 11-06-2010, 07:38 AM
Joe F. Joe F. is offline
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Hate to tell you its not the tire that's rubbing on the wheel well...wish I was that lucky...they are trying to fix it for the second time now.....
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  #45  
Old 11-06-2010, 08:46 AM
pharding pharding is offline
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I do not have the grinding noise. BMW has a service engineer that visits each dealership once a month to address tough technical problems. If your dealer does resolve the issue after two attempts I would insist on a meeting with the BMW service engineer.
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  #46  
Old 11-06-2010, 09:20 AM
solstice solstice is offline
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DHP seems to be the common denominator. Joe F. did your tech observe the symptom during a test drive of your car? brandonw, to me this seems like a very common problem already. Of the relatively few owners that reads this forum there seems to be a high percentage ( for a fault ) that has the symptoms. And yeah, just as you think it might be going away it returns with a vengance. Safe or not, it does feel like the components involved will have excessive wear and it really feels and sounds like the car is faulty, not acceptable on a new car.

It also does not seem limited to a "bad lot". My car was built way before the Aug. re-tooling and I see M-sport and X-drive cars on this thread. Though I did get a new ars pump and valve block so if it is ars that is the cause it could still be a bad lot.

Last edited by solstice; 11-06-2010 at 09:35 AM.
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  #47  
Old 11-06-2010, 10:44 AM
Joe F. Joe F. is offline
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Hey Soltice. My tech did observe it while i was driving the car. He sat with me in the car and we took it for a drive and it did it several times. It does seem that all of our vehicles have the DHP wonder if it has something to do with this suspension system on the car. Either way this is unacceptable on a new car and it seems like its happening to several people like you stated.
I really believe that this is poor quality control on BMW's part. I love the car but this just puts a bad taste in my mouth when it comes to BMW. My service center has been great so far but lets see how this plays out.....
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  #48  
Old 11-06-2010, 02:45 PM
solstice solstice is offline
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Thanks Joe F. Very good to know that a tech has observed the symptoms. You are currently our best hope. I wonder if it could be the ars valve block since I think the X-drive and rwd cars have different pumps. I would assume that the X-drive cars share pump between steering and ars while the rwd car has a separate ars pump so the pump would not be a common factor. Perhaps it's a synchronization problem where valves are not closing properly at certain circumstances making the highly pressurized oil resonate through the system. Hopefully it's something much simpler to detect. Our fingers are crossed that your tech will find the cause and a solution.

Is your car currently at the dealer / service center?

Last edited by solstice; 11-06-2010 at 02:47 PM.
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  #49  
Old 11-06-2010, 07:53 PM
solstice solstice is offline
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Joe F. if your tech struggles to find a cause you might want to ask him what I plan to ask mine. If he can disconnect ars safely. I would like my tech to do this and then I can drive a week or until the grinding appears whichever comes first. If a week passes without an occurance I will be sure ars is the cause. If it appears it's obviously something else.
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  #50  
Old 11-07-2010, 07:39 AM
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markl53 markl53 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solstice View Post
Joe F. if your tech struggles to find a cause you might want to ask him what I plan to ask mine. If he can disconnect ars safely. I would like my tech to do this and then I can drive a week or until the grinding appears whichever comes first. If a week passes without an occurance I will be sure ars is the cause. If it appears it's obviously something else.
The key will be that you are able to reproduce the problem in the presence of the tech. I have learned this over the years. You will always get "NPF" (no problem found) if you are not able to ride with the person and achieve concurrence on what you both hear or feel. This happened with my wife's '08 Acura TL. There was a very annoying vibration, sound more than feel, at idle that sounded like an engine mount issue. We took the service dept. foreman for a ride and made sure we all agreed on the same sound that was heard. They thought it could be a challenging diagnosis. They ended up using a stethescope type device to hone in on the noise -- turns out all they had to do was reposition the power steering pump bracket that was vibrating against another frame piece.

You have to make them be able to hear or feel the problem in your presence for success to be achieved, IMO.
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Last edited by markl53; 11-07-2010 at 07:40 AM.
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