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E89 Z4 (2009 - current)

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  #26  
Old 11-04-2010, 02:02 AM
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teagueAMX teagueAMX is offline
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^^ I don't think anyone will answer your question in a way that completely satisfies you, but allow me to comment on I think may be going on with the current Z4.

1st it BMW seems to be pursuing niche marketing rather aggressively, and not simply a narrower version of something that's already popular, but entirely new markets. The X6 is a good example. Don't want to start a firestorm of comments about the X6, but staying on point, one has to say that BMW has created an entirely new market with that model. They are also pushing the hybrid to the limit, which is not bad considering people's feelings about the environment.

So one has to ask, when BMW is riding a huge .25 mil+ NA sales wave in their bread and butter mobiles (e.g., 3 series, 5 series, etc.) why do they bother with a couple of models they're lucky to produce a few hundred or even a few thousand a year. Here were taking about the X6 and Z4. Let's face it, BMW could produce only 3's, 5's and 7's, a x5, and call it a day, all the while pushing wheelbarrows full of cash to the bank and who would ever fault them.

2nd is, if previous generation Z4 sales were somewhat mediocre before, why did they push the model higher up in the market place (feature + price) a move they very likely fully anticipated would reduce Z4 sales? IMO, we're all the beneficiaries of this somewhat mysterious marketing approach.

Not really an entirely defensible answer, but I would suggest that BMW is shaping public feeling about the brand. Sort of like creating icons for public worship; similar to supercar marquees that only a handful of people in the entire world of 6.7 billion people will ever own, but they are icons of public adulation around the world. BMW wants people to see them as a company that produces at least a few models that are slightly eccentric exotic cars.

3rd that brings me to my final point that is that BMWs entire NA range produces about .25 mil cars a year. How many millions of Miata's has Mazda produced? I don't think they really want the Z4 to compete in that marketplace. So, yes a lot of people will feel they've been gypped because the Z4 will never be cheap enough for them to own. On the other hand, BMW will say, that's the way it is. A few thousand people a year will have the privilege of owning a comfortable, well styled and appointed, powerful, luxurious car that fits the mold of the traditional sports cars of old. But it's not a Miata on the low end, nor is it a Boxster on the high end it's somewhere in the middle.

Last edited by teagueAMX; 11-04-2010 at 02:21 AM.
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  #27  
Old 11-04-2010, 05:57 AM
Built-in-MUC Built-in-MUC is offline
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Its not just Z4's...

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/21/20101104...r-6323e80.html

Not relevant to those of you State side.
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  #28  
Old 11-04-2010, 07:53 AM
BlueZ4AZ BlueZ4AZ is offline
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Z2

Lets not forget that BMW is going to release the Z2. That will bridge the gap betwen the old Z4 and the new Z4.

So, making the new Z4 an all around better car that the previous generation (and accordingly, at a higher price) is all part of the master plan.

Lower Z4 sales figures should not be a surprise. When price goes up, demand goes down. Econ 101

Last edited by BlueZ4AZ; 11-04-2010 at 08:54 AM.
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  #29  
Old 11-04-2010, 11:30 AM
BlueZ4AZ BlueZ4AZ is offline
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To sum it all up, I don't think any current e89 owners give a frog's fat a$$ what the target market is for the Z4 or how many Z4s were sold last month. So, with all due respect to Mr Zip who initiated this useless thread, for no other puprose but to vent his frustrations, and to any others that somehow felt the need to put a negative spin on the situation - So What!

Last edited by BlueZ4AZ; 11-04-2010 at 11:33 AM.
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  #30  
Old 11-04-2010, 11:52 AM
Parrotguy Parrotguy is offline
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Some good comments there. I would have to disagree with your last point - Miata is the low end but the Z4 is not anywhere near the middle. The price of the Z4 is pretty much on par with the basic Boxster, not the S, depending on how you equip the cars. BMW is always criticized for the high price of its options, but Porsche is much worse in that regard. (That worked for me, I was happy to own the base stick and keep the price reasonable). The 370Z roadster now occupies the middle, at least price wise, now that the S2000 is gone.
When the new Z4 model came out with the folding hardtop, softer suspension, more luxurious interior, etc. a number of reviewers concluded that they were going after the SLK market. I guess that makes some sense, but most SLK owners are women , I believe, and also that would not explain why you need a 300HP twin turbo. BMW has increased the HP in the Z3-Z4 every year. I believe they are chasing the Boxster to some extent - look at the enormous transformation of the car since the James Bond introduction of the original Z3 at around $32K as I recall.. The biggest criticism of the original Z3 - woefully underpowered.
However if you wanted better performance you wouldn't have put the folding hardtop on, which is why the car is an enigma. I live in San Diego where there are tons of soft tops. I notice cars, especially the Z4 because I love the styling, and I have been keeping an eye out for the E89 since they were introduced. I'm not exaggerating to say I've seen only one on the road. Yes its a niche car, but I doubt BMW expected the niche to be quite that small.
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  #31  
Old 11-04-2010, 11:57 AM
Parrotguy Parrotguy is offline
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I forgot to mention that they also gave up on the golfing segment when they installed the folding top. I don't golf, however it was a deal breaker for a number of posters on this board when the car was introduced.
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  #32  
Old 11-04-2010, 12:21 PM
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I forgot to mention that they also gave up on the golfing segment when they installed the folding top. I don't golf, however it was a deal breaker for a number of posters on this board when the car was introduced.
I'm a golfer and have no problem fitting my clubs in the car. If I want the top down I use the pass-through and lay the bag front to back, they just barely reach through to the armrest. If I am carrying 2 sets, the top must be up with the 2nd set laying across.
As an avid golfer I made sure it would work before ordering the car.

How about those Giants!
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  #33  
Old 11-04-2010, 12:22 PM
BlueZ4AZ BlueZ4AZ is offline
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Originally Posted by Parrotguy View Post
I forgot to mention that they also gave up on the golfing segment when they installed the folding top. I don't golf, however it was a deal breaker for a number of posters on this board when the car was introduced.

Well they all made a bad decision. This just in.........The bag fits.

Solution:
If the bag is one of the few that is too big to fit through the passthrough, put the golf bag in the front seat well and tell the rest of your 4-some you'll be enjoying the sunshine on the way to the course and that you'll meet them there. Problem solved

Do you get many e89 owners on your 370Z forum that have nothing better to do but to come onto the 370Z forum to stir up negative spin about the 370Z? You know, like call it an "enigma"... stuff like that.

Are the design of the taillights and back end on the 35i etched into your mind yet? That's propbably the only view you've gotten the few times you've seen one while out in your 370Z.

Last edited by BlueZ4AZ; 11-04-2010 at 01:40 PM.
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  #34  
Old 11-05-2010, 11:27 AM
zhan zhan is offline
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Originally Posted by teagueAMX View Post
3rd that brings me to my final point that is that BMWs entire NA range produces about .25 mil cars a year. How many millions of Miata's has Mazda produced? I don't think they really want the Z4 to compete in that marketplace. So, yes a lot of people will feel they've been gypped because the Z4 will never be cheap enough for them to own. On the other hand, BMW will say, that's the way it is. A few thousand people a year will have the privilege of owning a comfortable, well styled and appointed, powerful, luxurious car that fits the mold of the traditional sports cars of old. But it's not a Miata on the low end, nor is it a Boxster on the high end it's somewhere in the middle.

i disagree with your 3rd point because its a BMW not a Ferrari.
BMW is pushing deep into the common man's market (depreciating the brand image).
Look at the current lease rates - 328i @ $0 down, and $350~ a month? Ok, that says a lot about trying to bring up the value of the brand.

and, they priced it above the porsche boxster.
ok, just common sense speaking, if you are a common man/woman, not a bmw fanboy, going for a 2 seater roadster around that price range, you would choose the boxster. why? its a porsche - its a brand more prestigious than bmw. If a woman's gotta choose between a coach handbag vs. an LV - if the price is the same she'd pick the LV in a heartbeat.

the first z4, they placed it at the correct price range. its more expensive than the japanese, but less expensive than the SLK and boxster. thats where BMW brand image fits.
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  #35  
Old 11-05-2010, 11:40 AM
skier219 skier219 is offline
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I always find it interesting that BMW has more of a "Chevrolet" image in Germany, whereas it's considered upscale here in the US. I think it all depends on how they market the cars, who they market to, and how they are equipped. But it's the same basic car either way.

Regarding the Boxster, you really have to look at the whole picture. It's a bit outdated at this point. Porsche does periodic restylings and refreshes, and it is an awesome sports car. But I still prefer the ultra-modern design and features of the E89 Z4, and I do believe that it's a better car in most respects. Now, if Porsche had a modern 2011 Boxster and the relative pricing was the same, then it would be a different ball game. Even more interesting -- I seem to recall that the next gen Boxster is going down in price point. If the Z4 is left hanging out as a more expensive and less capable car against modern peers like that, then I see some cause for concern.
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  #36  
Old 11-05-2010, 11:49 AM
zhan zhan is offline
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I always find it interesting that BMW has more of a "Chevrolet" image in Germany, whereas it's considered upscale here in the US. I think it all depends on how they market the cars, who they market to, and how they are equipped. But it's the same basic car either way.

Regarding the Boxster, you really have to look at the whole picture. It's a bit outdated at this point. Porsche does periodic restylings and refreshes, and it is an awesome sports car. But I still prefer the ultra-modern design and features of the E89 Z4, and I do believe that it's a better car in most respects. Now, if Porsche had a modern 2011 Boxster and the relative pricing was the same, then it would be a different ball game. Even more interesting -- I seem to recall that the next gen Boxster is going down in price point. If the Z4 is left hanging out as a more expensive and less capable car against modern peers like that, then I see some cause for concern.
well you buy a porsche because you are a brander and/or like to drive, not for modernities like iDrive, 7" navi screen, plush leather seats, soft suspension etc.

there is no question that porsche dynamics is better than a bmw's, just usually the porsche costs a lot more. A Carrera S will always drive better than an M3, but the carrera S is pushing $90k while M3 coupe with options is about $70.

there is also no question that brand recognition for porsche is a lot higher and it has a reputation of being higher up than the big 3 (audi, benz, bmw).

If you price the BMW as expensive or more expensive than the porsche. you are trying to snatch people who traditionally gets porsches. thats not going to happen. most people want a porsche because its like a trophy wife or a gold rolex, its a sign of achievement. a BMW is hardly an achievement.
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  #37  
Old 11-06-2010, 10:02 PM
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Just a few more points based on discussions with my dealer as well as a friend that works at BMW Corporate in Munich:

1. The Z4 shares many parts with other vehicles in the BMW lineup including the 3 series and as such, costs are spread across multiple platforms making the investment in the Z4 lower it otherwise would have been.
2. Although the NA numbers have dropped during the past 2 months, sales in Europe/UK are strong and have not experienced seasonal declines.
3. In SoCal, my dealership is selling Z4's at a strong pace (although to be fair, this is Southern California and you would expect the market to be stronger for roadsters due to the climate).

Thanks
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  #38  
Old 11-07-2010, 02:17 AM
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"The nine-month sales volume rose worldwide by 13.1% to 1,062,216 units (2009: 939,554 units). The number of BMW brand cars sold during the period from January to September increased by 14.8% to 892,737 units (2009: 777,455 units). Growth was achieved in particular by the BMW 5 Series (155,648 units/+22.2%), the BMW X1 (72,294 units), the BMW X5 (74,655 units/+16.2%) and X6 (34,464/+13.1%), the BMW 7 Series (47,349 units/+41.7%) as well as the BMW Z4 (20,637 units/+21.9%)."

BMW Group Press Release
November 3, 2010
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  #39  
Old 11-07-2010, 08:00 AM
Jim Patterson Jim Patterson is offline
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the rare Z4

And yet, as I said several weeks ago, in five weeks in Europe recently I only saw two E89s, and both of those were in Holland. In addition to Holland, I was in the South of France, where I surprizingly saw none, and Croatia, where I didn't expect to see any. I imagine Switzerland, Austria and especially Germany is where the sales are stronger, and maybe, to an extent, the UK, but this is all speculation on my part.


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  #40  
Old 11-07-2010, 08:43 AM
STIHLBOLTS STIHLBOLTS is offline
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When the E89 hit my dealership I got to drive both the 35 Blue with white interior steptronic trans and 30 black with red interior manual trans. At that time I had my 04 so to compare the two cars vs mine and both were awesome rides. Both way out of my price range for a weekend car. My M is my toy and I don't think I would ever use it nor my last Z as a daily driver where the E89 could be used that way, maybe that's what BMW was thinking, who knows? The E89 is a beautiful car and like any good journalists will do, try and compare it to something. Car and Driver recently did that with Z4, Corvette, Audi, and Boxter S. When they were all done the ranks came in at Boxter S, Z4, Corvette, Audi, those were based on price, performance and so on. Personally I don't care because all the cars have performance and I think the Z4 looks better than the other three.

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  #41  
Old 11-07-2010, 09:17 AM
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I drove my 2001 M Roadster (original price $46k) for 8 years because nothing else was ALL THAT - high performance and really stylish looks. Was so disappointed in the look of the earlier Z4 (which why I agree that this should have been called a Z5 - it's entireley different). So after 8 years I was not so surprised at the higher price, paricularly with the upgrades in technology over that time. True that if you are committed to a 2-seater you might need another car for kids, dogs and bad weather, but my 10-year old Jeep Wrangler fits that bill pretty cheaply. And by the way - it's not just great for the under-25's with no kids - it's also great for the over-50's whose kids are grown (and still are never allowed to drive my car!)
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  #42  
Old 11-07-2010, 09:55 AM
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and still are never allowed to drive my car!)
+1 to the 10th power!!!
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  #43  
Old 11-09-2010, 06:07 PM
BlueZ4AZ BlueZ4AZ is offline
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Originally Posted by STIHLBOLTS View Post
When the E89 hit my dealership I got to drive both the 35 Blue with white interior steptronic trans
The 35i does not have a Steptronic. It has the far superior DCT.
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  #44  
Old 11-10-2010, 09:29 AM
zhan zhan is offline
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Originally Posted by marshdn View Post
I drove my 2001 M Roadster (original price $46k) for 8 years because nothing else was ALL THAT - high performance and really stylish looks. Was so disappointed in the look of the earlier Z4 (which why I agree that this should have been called a Z5 - it's entireley different). So after 8 years I was not so surprised at the higher price, paricularly with the upgrades in technology over that time. True that if you are committed to a 2-seater you might need another car for kids, dogs and bad weather, but my 10-year old Jeep Wrangler fits that bill pretty cheaply. And by the way - it's not just great for the under-25's with no kids - it's also great for the over-50's whose kids are grown (and still are never allowed to drive my car!)
well i disagree completely

technology improves over time, but technology also becomes common and becomes cheap over time. back in early 2000s, Xenon lights were considered luxury, now everyones got em standard. Back when the first gen z4 was introduced, navi and tech pack was introduced and was considered new. Now every lexus, infiniti, whatever has navi and bluetooth standard. so saying bmw charging extra for more features is incorrect as those 'new features' are common household items now.

so old 2001 z3 fully loaded with common household items at the time vs. new z4 fully loaded with common household items now even accounted for 3% inflation every year for 10 years (even though we had deflationary numbers caused by economic depression twice!)
45000 * 1.03^10 = $60000 for a fully loaded 2011 z4 3.5is (top of the line)
in reality, fully loaded 2011 z4 3.5is is more like $75000.

you cant say oh in 2011 it comes with more items so it should cost more. because in 2011, we are expected to have more. our expectations are higher. look at the standard features. we have more standard features (what we automatically assume we are going to get/expected to get) than fully loaded cars from before!

Last edited by zhan; 11-10-2010 at 09:49 AM.
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  #45  
Old 11-10-2010, 02:21 PM
STIHLBOLTS STIHLBOLTS is offline
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This week I stopped in and they have a Black on black fully loaded 3.5si with M Suspension package, M Wheels, paddle shifter in steering wheel and shift in the console. A mere 62,500.00.
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  #46  
Old 11-11-2010, 06:19 AM
zhan zhan is offline
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Originally Posted by STIHLBOLTS View Post
This week I stopped in and they have a Black on black fully loaded 3.5si with M Suspension package, M Wheels, paddle shifter in steering wheel and shift in the console. A mere 62,500.00.
What you getting your 3.5is ???
3.5is z4 STARTS @ 61500 + destination + metallic paint = more than $62500 arlready.

i just built my own 3.5is z4
here is what i got


Base MSRP
$61,550
.
Black Sapphire Metallic
$550
.
Coral Red Extended Leather
$1,350
.
M Interior trim Aluminum Carbon Shadow
$0
.
Cold Weather Package
$1,000
.
Premium Package
$2,500
.

iPod and USB adapter
$400
.
Comfort Access keyless entry
$500
.
Navigation system
$2,100
.
Smartphone Integration
$150
.
Premium Sound System
$1800
.
Anti-theft alarm system
$400
.
Park Distance Control
$750
.
Destination & Handling:
$875


TOTAL = $73925.00

Last edited by zhan; 11-11-2010 at 06:21 AM.
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  #47  
Old 11-11-2010, 06:31 AM
STIHLBOLTS STIHLBOLTS is offline
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No. Not spending that kind of money.

I am a very happy camper with my 08.

I might have missed the extra charges and just caught the base price.

Either way I was just window shopping.

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  #48  
Old 11-11-2010, 06:34 AM
zhan zhan is offline
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No. Not spending that kind of money.

I am a very happy camper with my 08.

I might have missed the extra charges and just caught the base price.

Either way I was just window shopping.

Best regards
yep, the cars ARE priced too high!
why would i buy a non-M bmw roadster for $75gs when I can get SLK55 AMG for a lot less?
and AMG is equivalent of M. There is no match.
if you add $30gs, you can get a base r8!
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  #49  
Old 11-11-2010, 06:44 AM
STIHLBOLTS STIHLBOLTS is offline
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I saw a R8 up close in Pensacola this past summer. That is once nice looking ride.
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  #50  
Old 11-12-2010, 09:01 PM
BlueZ4AZ BlueZ4AZ is offline
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yep, the cars ARE priced too high!
why would i buy a non-M bmw roadster for $75gs when I can get SLK55 AMG for a lot less?
and AMG is equivalent of M. There is no match.
It's ironic, because I asked myself that same question about the SLK when comparing to the Z4... "Why would I buy the SLK?".

I could not come up with one good reason to buy the SLK.

Plus, it looks like a cute little girly-girl car, interior seemed cheap and boring, and it looks too much like an SL that's been through a compactor.

Last edited by BlueZ4AZ; 11-12-2010 at 09:05 PM.
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