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Do you own a diesel powered BMW? Maybe a 335d or a BMW x35d? Come and talk about what makes your car great!

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  #1  
Old 11-05-2010, 10:45 AM
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chip4 chip4 is offline
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DEF Fluid Help

Brought my 2011 X5d to the dealer for its first service -10600mi, My SA mentions that the techs were only able to fill 2gal of DEF (4x .5gal) through the no spill port. I dont want to tell them what to do but arent they supposed to use a separate equipment for the drain and refill? I remember seeing the PDF file.
Could I have used a mere 2gal of DEF fluid in almost 11k miles?
Doesnt our system have a 6gal. capacity?

Can someone with a link to the PDF file post here so I can show the dealer -thanks.

Last edited by chip4; 11-05-2010 at 12:00 PM.
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  #2  
Old 11-05-2010, 11:01 AM
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62Lincoln 62Lincoln is offline
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I think this post by Tlak has what you want: http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...166&highlight=
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  #3  
Old 11-05-2010, 11:06 AM
Penguin Penguin is offline
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I believe BMW has changed their DEF service requirements from a flush and fill to just a fill.


Check-out post #19 in this thread:

http://www.xoutpost.com/bmw-sav-foru...overnight.html

Last edited by Penguin; 11-05-2010 at 11:14 AM.
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  #4  
Old 11-05-2010, 11:24 AM
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chip4 chip4 is offline
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BMW maintenance program states:

DEF drain and refill http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Conte...ceprogram.aspx

Thanks 62Lincoln -according to that procedure it is approximately 6gal (5.7L active 16L passive). It even states not to reuse the extracted fluid from the vehicle.

I have a feeling they only refilled the active -the passive requires the DEF filler/extractor.

Last edited by chip4; 11-05-2010 at 12:00 PM.
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  #5  
Old 11-05-2010, 12:00 PM
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bimmerdiesel bimmerdiesel is offline
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Yups when go in for service they are supposed to drain DEF and refill it.
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  #6  
Old 11-05-2010, 12:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmerdiesel View Post
Yups when go in for service they are supposed to drain DEF and refill it.
(1) Post #19 in the thread I referenced is from a BMW technician, and

(2) When I had it done this Summer on my 2010 35D and questioned the use of only two containers of DEF, the Service Manager said BMW had changed the policy to fill only, not flush and fill.


That said, if it only took 2 gallons, it does sound like they only filled the active tank and skipped the passive tank.

Last edited by Penguin; 11-05-2010 at 12:11 PM.
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  #7  
Old 11-05-2010, 12:30 PM
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bimmerdiesel bimmerdiesel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penguin View Post
(1) Post #19 in the thread I referenced is from a BMW technician, and

(2) When I had it done this Summer on my 2010 35D and questioned the use of only two containers of DEF, the Service Manager said BMW had changed the policy to fill only, not flush and fill.


That said, if it only took 2 gallons, it does sound like they only filled the active tank and skipped the passive tank.
Well this time when I went in for 2nd service abt a week ago, SA mentioned that they have drained it all out and filled it up again. May be I got lucky or my SA didnt have all information. I will have to check my invoice how much they actually used.

He did mention that there is change in policy now (CBS). According to which based on miles I put on my car I will have to go in twice next yr for service. 1 for free oil change after 13k miles and other is for complete car check up (after 7k miles) in which they will change some filters.
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Last edited by bimmerdiesel; 11-05-2010 at 12:31 PM.
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  #8  
Old 11-05-2010, 12:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmerdiesel View Post
He did mention that there is change in policy now (CBS). According to which based on miles I put on my car I will have to go in twice next yr for service. 1 for free oil change after 13k miles and other is for complete car check up (after 7k miles) in which they will change some filters.
Yes, I noticed I am now tracking two difference services in the i-drive display, one at 7,000 mi and an oil change at 9,000 mi. I'm guessing that the 7,000 mi one is for a fuel filter change.

And it does seem that the OP's dealer is not very up-to-date on BMW SIB's. I recall seeing an SIB that told the dealers that BMW NA would not reimburse the dealers for the half-gallon DEF bottles if they used them for service... the SIB said the dealers must use only the 2.5 gallon DEF bottles for service purposes.

Last edited by Penguin; 11-05-2010 at 12:41 PM.
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  #9  
Old 11-05-2010, 12:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penguin View Post
Yes, I noticed I am now tracking two difference services in the -drive display, one at 7,000 mi and an oil change at 9,000 mi. I'm guessing that the 7,000 mi one is for a fuel filter change.
Yups thats how it is.
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  #10  
Old 11-05-2010, 12:48 PM
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I wonder how labor intensive it is to access and change the fuel filter? The filter itself looks to cost about $50. Might be an extra "diesel" operating expense once the free maintenance is over...
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  #11  
Old 11-05-2010, 12:54 PM
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There is DIY thread on e90 for 330d. If its same location for 335d then from pics it didnt seem very difficult to do. You just need get under car, remove some nuts and bolts. And I have no idea about x5
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  #12  
Old 11-05-2010, 01:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmerdiesel View Post
Yups when go in for service they are supposed to drain DEF and refill it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Penguin View Post
(1) Post #19 in the thread I referenced is from a BMW technician, and

(2) When I had it done this Summer on my 2010 35D and questioned the use of only two containers of DEF, the Service Manager said BMW had changed the policy to fill only, not flush and fill.


That said, if it only took 2 gallons, it does sound like they only filled the active tank and skipped the passive tank.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmerdiesel View Post
Well this time when I went in for 2nd service abt a week ago, SA mentioned that they have drained it all out and filled it up again. May be I got lucky or my SA didnt have all information. I will have to check my invoice how much they actually used.

He did mention that there is change in policy now (CBS). According to which based on miles I put on my car I will have to go in twice next yr for service. 1 for free oil change after 13k miles and other is for complete car check up (after 7k miles) in which they will change some filters.
I went through whole thread and it seems they do flush it but not on first service. I went for 2nd service so thats probably why they flushed it. I need to go through links posted by tlak again to know what and when its done.
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  #13  
Old 11-05-2010, 01:10 PM
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I had emailed the documents to my SA -and he mentions that they no longer drain the DEF fluid -they are unwilling to show me their documents saying that BMW requires them to only fill it now. So 2gal is what they put in.

I am on my way there now to discuss this.
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  #14  
Old 11-05-2010, 02:05 PM
BMWTurboDzl BMWTurboDzl is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chip4 View Post
I had emailed the documents to my SA -and he mentions that they no longer drain the DEF fluid -they are unwilling to show me their documents saying that BMW requires them to only fill it now. So 2gal is what they put in.

I am on my way there now to discuss this.
Why the concern? If it's full..It's full.
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  #15  
Old 11-05-2010, 04:08 PM
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Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl View Post
Why the concern? If it's full..It's full.
I still had to pick up my vehicle.

Anyway I really need to read my own documents -They did change the service bulletin -highlighted in red New
http://www.bmwtis.com/tsb/bulletins/...p/b160109g.htm

I ended up calling BMWNA Customer Relations the person I spoke to mentioned she will talk to their advertising dept to look at their "BMW Maintenance Program" -It still says drain and refill

As for my vehicle -I dont know, Ill find out if my DEF will make it to my next oil change in 11k mi. Maybe I did only use 2 gal worth of DEF

Last edited by chip4; 11-05-2010 at 04:10 PM.
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  #16  
Old 11-05-2010, 04:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chip4 View Post
As for my vehicle -I dont know, Ill find out if my DEF will make it to my next oil change in 11k mi. Maybe I did only use 2 gal worth of DEF

Highly unlikely. I'd place a very high probability on them only filling the active tank. While one hopes that they know there are two tanks, it is not promising that they apparently didn't know BMW NA will not reimburse them for using the 1/2 gallon, rather than 2.5 gallon, bottles of DEF.
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  #17  
Old 11-11-2010, 02:55 PM
Tedj101 Tedj101 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penguin View Post
Highly unlikely. I'd place a very high probability on them only filling the active tank. While one hopes that they know there are two tanks, it is not promising that they apparently didn't know BMW NA will not reimburse them for using the 1/2 gallon, rather than 2.5 gallon, bottles of DEF.
OK, I had my first service done today. Not very encouraging. They told me it was just an oil change. I told them that at a minimum it required the DEF to be filled and that there was a software recall. They found the software recall but the SA still said it didn't need DEF. Finally he talked to the guy at the next booth and he said they top up "the fluid". Apparently they aren't familiar with the name DEF.

Well, when I went to pick the car up I didn't have my glasses so I couldn't read the invoice. When I got home, there was no mention of DEF on the paperwork. I would assume that there would be a notation of the amount of DEF used on the paperwork if it was done. Can anyone confirm that? (Part numbers would also help!)

Thanks,
<TED>
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  #18  
Old 11-11-2010, 06:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tedj101 View Post
Well, when I went to pick the car up I didn't have my glasses so I couldn't read the invoice. When I got home, there was no mention of DEF on the paperwork. I would assume that there would be a notation of the amount of DEF used on the paperwork if it was done. Can anyone confirm that? (Part numbers would also help!)

Thanks,
<TED>
PN of DEF is 1/2 gallon bottles
PN of Diesel Oil listed is 1 qt Castrol SLX Professional OE 5w30 (Dealer Only)

I verified these PN's cause I bought a bottle of each at the dealer just in case I needed a top off.
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Last edited by chip4; 11-11-2010 at 07:00 PM.
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  #19  
Old 11-11-2010, 10:45 PM
Tedj101 Tedj101 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chip4 View Post
PN of DEF is 1/2 gallon bottles
PN of Diesel Oil listed is 1 qt Castrol SLX Professional OE 5w30 (Dealer Only)

I verified these PN's cause I bought a bottle of each at the dealer just in case I needed a top off.
I think they are shortcutting in your parts department. On my invoice oil shows as:

07-51-0-037-195 which looks like a regular BMW part no. I don't have any indication that DEF was used at all...

<TED>
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  #20  
Old 11-12-2010, 06:03 AM
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62Lincoln 62Lincoln is offline
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Ted, I'd guess that if they had done anything regarding DEF, it would show up on your invoice as charges, for both product and labor (sounds like you think the same thing). I think you are drawing the only reasonable conclusion, that they didn't touch the DEF.
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  #21  
Old 11-12-2010, 09:50 AM
Tedj101 Tedj101 is offline
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Originally Posted by 62Lincoln View Post
Ted, I'd guess that if they had done anything regarding DEF, it would show up on your invoice as charges, for both product and labor (sounds like you think the same thing). I think you are drawing the only reasonable conclusion, that they didn't touch the DEF.
Yeah, those are the same presumptions that I am harboring. Now it appears that they won't touch the phone either<g>! I've had a call in to the service manager since early this morning with no response<g>...
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  #22  
Old 11-13-2010, 04:55 AM
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TED,

Think they even know it is a diesel?
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  #23  
Old 11-13-2010, 08:50 AM
Tedj101 Tedj101 is offline
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TED,

Think they even know it is a diesel?
You don't know the half of it. When I called up to make the appointment, I told them it was a diesel and they looked it up on their computer and confirmed that understanding. Then they told me it is just an oil change and asked if I wanted to wait for it. I said "no" it takes more than an oil change, it needs DEF and there is a software campaign on that car.

When I brought it in, after checking the computer, the SA again said its just an oil change and I could wait. I said "no" it needs DEF and there is a software update. After a couple more back and forths, he agreed that it needed the software upgrade but didn't agree on DEF. Finally he asked the guy next to him who told him that they fill "the fluid" when they do the oil. It appeared that he had no idea what DEF is or that diesels need anything different from gassers.

Needless to say, they didn't manage to get it right even though they had the car the whole day!

I called the service manager the next morning to get something done about it. I got her voice mail. No one called me back. I guess I have to try again on Monday... Prepaid service isn't all its cracked up to be. You're sort of stuck with the company you bought the car from - for good or for bad.
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Last edited by Tedj101; 11-13-2010 at 08:51 AM.
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  #24  
Old 11-13-2010, 08:52 AM
Tedj101 Tedj101 is offline
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Originally Posted by Tedj101 View Post
You don't know the half of it. When I called up to make the appointment, I told them it was a diesel and they looked it up on their computer and confirmed that understanding. Then they told me it is just an oil change and asked if I wanted to wait for it. I said "no" it takes more than an oil change, it needs DEF and there is a software campaign on that car.

When I brought it in, after checking the computer, the SA again said its just an oil change and I could wait. I said "no" it needs DEF and there is a software update. After a couple more back and forths, he agreed that it needed the software upgrade but didn't agree on DEF. Finally he asked the guy next to him who told him that they fill "the fluid" when they do the oil. It appeared that he had no idea what DEF is or that diesels need anything different from gassers.

Needless to say, they didn't manage to get it right even though they had the car the whole day!

I called the service manager the next morning to get something done about it. I got her voice mail. No one called me back. I guess I have to try again on Monday... Prepaid service isn't all its cracked up to be. You're sort of stuck with the company you bought the car from - for good or for bad.
a
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Last edited by Tedj101; 11-13-2010 at 08:53 AM. Reason: This is a mistake - I need to delete it but can't figure out how
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  #25  
Old 11-13-2010, 01:47 PM
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Haha, yes, and their service website pull down list does not even show the 335d as existing, so of course they haven't got a clue!

Next time ask how many 335d's they've sold?

Can't you go to any other BMW service center in the area? I'd expect to see a lot more BMW diesels in the Greater Delaware area.
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