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7 Series - F01 / F02 (2009 - 2015)
The 5th generation F01/F02 BMW 7 Series flagship forum. The redesigned 7 series leads off the BMW Fxx chassis code, offering an 8 speed automatic transmission and all turbocharged engine options.

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  #1  
Old 05-31-2013, 09:32 PM
SFbay SFbay is offline
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How to make your f01 run 200k+

As most of you realized already, bimmer is not the same anymore compared to 80-90xx. Remember m30 engine which lasts 300k easily???
Ever thought why?? Simple design, less electronics??? Not really.
Thermostat on m30, m40, m50 opens up at 85C, m54 -95C. First M60 V8 used 85C as well in Europe, us version 95C. For comparison Lexus still runs at 85C vs your N63 runs at 105C!!!!
So higher temp means higher coolant pressure, higher coolant pressure- more stress for the motor.
As a result we all get serious leaks at very low mileage, all runner seals will start leaking and the worst you can get is a valve stem problem where you need new engine. N63 design is almost the same as N62 so get ready
Solution is simple: you need a lower temp tstat. I recently ordered them from factory so they custom made it to open at 90C, so if you install it at low miles your car will make it to 200mls easy just like in old days
Let me know if interested. You can also check threads in e65 section there are tons of issues after 5 yrs .
You will get no CEL or anything error related bc if this upgrade. Just in case all M engines still run at 85C.
This custom tstat is the same for all V8 and V12 from 2002 up to now. Also fits rolls Royce's as well
Yes your engine runs on the edge of overheating almost.... It's the easiest way to kill the engine before 100k miles so you buy a new car that's why bmw made so much more money in the last 10 yrs.

Last edited by SFbay; 05-31-2013 at 09:36 PM.
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  #2  
Old 05-31-2013, 10:59 PM
dbs600 dbs600 is offline
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All I can say is: WOW! :|
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  #3  
Old 06-01-2013, 01:19 AM
ajdoha234 ajdoha234 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SFbay View Post
As most of you realized already, bimmer is not the same anymore compared to 80-90xx. Remember m30 engine which lasts 300k easily???
Ever thought why?? Simple design, less electronics??? Not really.
Thermostat on m30, m40, m50 opens up at 85C, m54 -95C. First M60 V8 used 85C as well in Europe, us version 95C. For comparison Lexus still runs at 85C vs your N63 runs at 105C!!!!
So higher temp means higher coolant pressure, higher coolant pressure- more stress for the motor.
As a result we all get serious leaks at very low mileage, all runner seals will start leaking and the worst you can get is a valve stem problem where you need new engine. N63 design is almost the same as N62 so get ready
Solution is simple: you need a lower temp tstat. I recently ordered them from factory so they custom made it to open at 90C, so if you install it at low miles your car will make it to 200mls easy just like in old days
Let me know if interested. You can also check threads in e65 section there are tons of issues after 5 yrs .
You will get no CEL or anything error related bc if this upgrade. Just in case all M engines still run at 85C.
This custom tstat is the same for all V8 and V12 from 2002 up to now. Also fits rolls Royce's as well
Yes your engine runs on the edge of overheating almost.... It's the easiest way to kill the engine before 100k miles so you buy a new car that's why bmw made so much more money in the last 10 yrs.
Can you go into more detail about this? You said you ordered a custom tstat from the factory..you mean the BMW factory? How does this affect the warranty? Is there any reason why BMW wants these engines to run so hot? I would say PM me but I think you should post it here on the board.
Thanks
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  #4  
Old 06-01-2013, 05:06 AM
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M4XBMW7 M4XBMW7 is offline
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So years of research and BMW phuks up with a Tstat ? Interesting.
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  #5  
Old 06-01-2013, 05:21 AM
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I would almost want to believe that.

Still kinda of horrible to imagine they really did this on purpose to shorten the engine life.

FFS.
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  #6  
Old 06-01-2013, 05:22 AM
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Edited:
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Last edited by beamlord; 06-01-2013 at 05:23 AM.
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  #7  
Old 06-01-2013, 05:41 AM
ajdoha234 ajdoha234 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SFbay View Post
As most of you realized already, bimmer is not the same anymore compared to 80-90xx. Remember m30 engine which lasts 300k easily???
Ever thought why?? Simple design, less electronics??? Not really.
Thermostat on m30, m40, m50 opens up at 85C, m54 -95C. First M60 V8 used 85C as well in Europe, us version 95C. For comparison Lexus still runs at 85C vs your N63 runs at 105C!!!!
So higher temp means higher coolant pressure, higher coolant pressure- more stress for the motor.
As a result we all get serious leaks at very low mileage, all runner seals will start leaking and the worst you can get is a valve stem problem where you need new engine. N63 design is almost the same as N62 so get ready
Solution is simple: you need a lower temp tstat. I recently ordered them from factory so they custom made it to open at 90C, so if you install it at low miles your car will make it to 200mls easy just like in old days
Let me know if interested. You can also check threads in e65 section there are tons of issues after 5 yrs .
You will get no CEL or anything error related bc if this upgrade. Just in case all M engines still run at 85C.
This custom tstat is the same for all V8 and V12 from 2002 up to now. Also fits rolls Royce's as well
Yes your engine runs on the edge of overheating almost.... It's the easiest way to kill the engine before 100k miles so you buy a new car that's why bmw made so much more money in the last 10 yrs.
Im not sure this would be a money maker, if the cars are known to fail after a certain length of time. I will have to research more..just seems a little hard to believe to be honest. Also, I cant see how you could just change out a thermostat without affecting the rest of the vehicle. Wouldnt it throw everything off?
On that note, when I first came to the Qatar, I saw new BMW's everywhere. Now that I am paying attention, since I am getting one, I have noticed, they are much more of a rare sight. Its mostly Merc's now. hmmmmmmmmm. Anyone on this board have a BMW model with turbos, that has high mileage and has been problem free so far for any big repair issues?
But I would like more details and links on the tstat that you are saying is available.
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  #8  
Old 06-01-2013, 05:44 AM
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beamlord beamlord is offline
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One point I have to disagree with you is the M engines don't run at 85C, my m3 opens at about the same temp as the f01...
And runs at about the same operating temperatures (105ish)
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  #9  
Old 06-01-2013, 07:58 AM
dbs600 dbs600 is offline
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This is very interesting and should be investigated!

Last edited by dbs600; 06-05-2013 at 07:50 AM.
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  #10  
Old 06-01-2013, 08:11 AM
haastx10 haastx10 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SFbay View Post
As most of you realized already, bimmer is not the same anymore compared to 80-90xx. Remember m30 engine which lasts 300k easily???
Ever thought why?? Simple design, less electronics??? Not really.
Thermostat on m30, m40, m50 opens up at 85C, m54 -95C. First M60 V8 used 85C as well in Europe, us version 95C. For comparison Lexus still runs at 85C vs your N63 runs at 105C!!!!
So higher temp means higher coolant pressure, higher coolant pressure- more stress for the motor.
As a result we all get serious leaks at very low mileage, all runner seals will start leaking and the worst you can get is a valve stem problem where you need new engine. N63 design is almost the same as N62 so get ready
Solution is simple: you need a lower temp tstat. I recently ordered them from factory so they custom made it to open at 90C, so if you install it at low miles your car will make it to 200mls easy just like in old days
Let me know if interested. You can also check threads in e65 section there are tons of issues after 5 yrs .
You will get no CEL or anything error related bc if this upgrade. Just in case all M engines still run at 85C.
This custom tstat is the same for all V8 and V12 from 2002 up to now. Also fits rolls Royce's as well
Yes your engine runs on the edge of overheating almost.... It's the easiest way to kill the engine before 100k miles so you buy a new car that's why bmw made so much more money in the last 10 yrs.
OK.... So excuse my ignorance on this subject but the operating oil temp on my F02 is just south of 200C. Wether the water thermostat opens at 85C or 105C only maters during the short interval that the engine is warming up... The normal operating temperature is unaffected unless it doesn't open so I can't see how that would make any significant difference on the life of the engine... In addition, the operating temp of the coolant will be well above 105C so the system sees that pressure no matter what the thermostat is set at... Also, wouldn't the warmer oil be less viscous resulting in less engine wear... Maybe someone could enlighten me on this?
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  #11  
Old 06-01-2013, 08:38 AM
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745iguy 745iguy is offline
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How to make your f01 run 200k+

Quote:
Originally Posted by haastx10 View Post
OK.... So excuse my ignorance on this subject but the operating oil temp on my F02 is just south of 200C. Wether the water thermostat opens at 85C or 105C only maters during the short interval that the engine is warming up... The normal operating temperature is unaffected unless it doesn't open so I can't see how that would make any significant difference on the life of the engine... In addition, the operating temp of the coolant will be well above 105C so the system sees that pressure no matter what the thermostat is set at... Also, wouldn't the warmer oil be less viscous resulting in less engine wear... Maybe someone could enlighten me on this?
do you know how your engine tstat works? first of all on warm up a tstat stays closed, to get up to temp faster. second of all at a standstill idle or in neutral; your thermostat is not fully opened until 105C. and last but not least; your tstat opens when the dme sends a signal upon throttle, once at temp. (there is a wax heating element in the tstat, the dme sends the signal to heat this faster and basically overrides the natural operation of this element exposed to the hot coolant)
bmw does this for a lousy 1-2% mpg efficiency. not to intentionally destroy the engine. although in pretty sure they are aware that this isn't good for the hoses, gaskets and o rings.
all this being said; most of you probably don't care much because most of you will be in a newer car well before these things start to happen to your f01/2s.

also lower temp = lower pressure, higher temp = higher pressure in a closed system. if you have a system running at pressure and then vent that to the atmosphere, the temp will increase rapidly and the liquid will expand rapidly. the pressure will not be the same, lower temp = lower pressure. molecules expand when heated and contract when cooled ie ice is more dense than steam etcetera etcetera basic physics.

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Last edited by 745iguy; 06-01-2013 at 08:49 AM.
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  #12  
Old 06-01-2013, 09:03 AM
SFbay SFbay is offline
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To answer everyone's questions at once:
In 96 bmw came out with that awesome idea of thermotronik 105 tstat just bc it has that heating element which is controlled by DME,
In other words when your engine works half load at least DME would send +12V to open tstat immediately, so on the hwy your tstat is almost fully open and it runs at 90C smth, if there is no issues with cooling system. Sounds nice??? That's why you can see e65 with 300k mls which are being used as hwy interstate cruisers.
Now here is fked up side of this idea:
In city driving, when engine load is 10-20% at most, electronic part isn't working, and your cooling system relies fully on mechanical 105C tstat!!!
What this means???? Simple:
After city driving open the hood and try to squeeze upper rad hose!!!! It's going to be hard as rock!!! Here is why:
At 105C coolant pressure is very high otherwise your car will overheat, it puts lots of stress on all cooling parts, also your oil will be much hotter which will reduce its life and quality significantly. That's why you can find leaking turbos and soon valve stems, valve cover gaskets, all possible connections. Try simple test: if you have a lexus, Toyota or smth Japanese. Open the hood and check coolant pressure there!! You'll be surprised how easy you can squeeze it and temp inside engine bay is much much lower.
I have 3 bmws:
745li, 2002 540i, and classic 94' 840ci. So.... Here is the thing:
E39 runs 105 shty tstat and I had valley pan gasket replaced and lots of other things incl chain guides!!!!
E31 runs 95C same exact engine as e39, and all gaskets are original!!!
No leaks!!! I only did valve cover gasket once, everything else is good and after city driving all hoses aren't hard at all. E39 is total disaster at this point and hoses are rock hard, I already replaced tstat to 95C and it lowered oil temp and I actually get better mpg!!!
When it's very hot your engine runs on the edge and again some theory:
Best tstat temp is around 80-90- this gives you perfecf fuel combustion and no detonation. Below temps might give you a little worse combustion not that effective, plus cold cyl liners will cause condensation and oil is too thick- that's why it's not good to run very cool or without tstat.
But at 105 everything is crazy hot and sometimes you can hear detonation if you floor it quickly from start!!! I've seen lots of bmws which make this sound on start.
Why bmw did it???? Bc of big V8 engine.... Only to make cats hotter so in the city you don't smell anything!!!!
Yes emissions!!! In M engines it doesn't comply
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  #13  
Old 06-01-2013, 09:08 AM
SFbay SFbay is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beamlord View Post
One point I have to disagree with you is the M engines don't run at 85C, my m3 opens at about the same temp as the f01...
And runs at about the same operating temperatures (105ish)
You sure you have M3???))
Also you don't know when it opens
Get inpa and check life data first before these statements
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  #14  
Old 06-01-2013, 09:14 AM
SFbay SFbay is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 745iguy View Post
do you know how your engine tstat works? first of all on warm up a tstat stays closed, to get up to temp faster. second of all at a standstill idle or in neutral; your thermostat is not fully opened until 105C. and last but not least; your tstat opens when the dme sends a signal upon throttle, once at temp. (there is a wax heating element in the tstat, the dme sends the signal to heat this faster and basically overrides the natural operation of this element exposed to the hot coolant)
bmw does this for a lousy 1-2% mpg efficiency. not to intentionally destroy the engine. although in pretty sure they are aware that this isn't good for the hoses, gaskets and o rings.
all this being said; most of you probably don't care much because most of you will be in a newer car well before these things start to happen to your f01/2s.

also lower temp = lower pressure, higher temp = higher pressure in a closed system. if you have a system running at pressure and then vent that to the atmosphere, the temp will increase rapidly and the liquid will expand rapidly. the pressure will not be the same, lower temp = lower pressure. molecules expand when heated and contract when cooled ie ice is more dense than steam etcetera etcetera basic physics.

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All correct, but 105 tstat had nothing to do with better mileage:
It's only to get better emissions on hotter cats in the "very polluted" city
We all know that air pollution isn't caused by cars and shty global warming has nothing to do with engines.
Moreover you lose mpgs at higher temps bc it's not burning right and air is too hot under your hood.
Hotter air= less air volume= less effective combustion
That's why they use air cooler on turbo engines.

Last edited by SFbay; 06-01-2013 at 09:16 AM.
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  #15  
Old 06-01-2013, 09:15 AM
ajdoha234 ajdoha234 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SFbay View Post
To answer everyone's questions at once:
Im very interested in this subject. a few questions you didnt answer:
How can I order one of these cooler runnning tstats?
What does it do the the way everything is programmed to work in harmony. No recoding?
What does it do to the warranty?
Ive googled and cant find anything on this part you are referring to.
Do you have some links to info and ordering the part? You said you ordered it custom made from a factory? What factory? (Im assuming you mean the BMW factory but Im guessing they arent in the business of making custom tstats for people?...what did I miss)?
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  #16  
Old 06-01-2013, 09:23 AM
ajdoha234 ajdoha234 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajdoha234 View Post
Im very interested in this subject. a few questions you didnt answer:
How can I order one of these cooler runnning tstats?
What does it do the the way everything is programmed to work in harmony. No recoding?
What does it do to the warranty?
Ive googled and cant find anything on this part you are referring to.
Do you have some links to info and ordering the part? You said you ordered it custom made from a factory? What factory? (Im assuming you mean the BMW factory but Im guessing they arent in the business of making custom tstats for people?...what did I miss)?
This says that replacing the thermostat can knock the cars systems out of whack.
http://autos.yahoo.com/maintain/repa...ques019_2.html
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  #17  
Old 06-01-2013, 09:24 AM
SFbay SFbay is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajdoha234 View Post
Im very interested in this subject. a few questions you didnt answer:
How can I order one of these cooler runnning tstats?
What does it do the the way everything is programmed to work in harmony. No recoding?
What does it do to the warranty?
Ive googled and cant find anything on this part you are referring to.
Do you have some links to info and ordering the part? You said you ordered it custom made from a factory? What factory? (Im assuming you mean the BMW factory but Im guessing they arent in the business of making custom tstats for people?...what did I miss)?
Smart question.
Ok it won't do anything bad bc your car runs already at 90C on the hwy.
DME won't throw anything, it will only complain when temps are lower than 70C and higher than 120C. I drove 3000 mls with this tstat and no check engine or anything, my car actually feels much happier and faster now in the city.
It's of course aftermarket, I ordered it from German factory, it produces regular 105 tstats for bmws as well so they've been around for a while. They also make special orders for DINAN as well, so they are pretty reputable company.
You've got special test in your dashboard so you can see exact running temp at the moment.
I spent lots of time fighting with my e66 and I had to order 100pcs to manufacture this special order.
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  #18  
Old 06-01-2013, 09:27 AM
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Originally Posted by ajdoha234 View Post
This says that replacing the thermostat can knock the cars systems out of whack.
http://autos.yahoo.com/maintain/repa...ques019_2.html
Ha ha yahoo is very smart and they know everything
So why M5 M3 and other engines run at 79C???? How come???
So Bmw Motorsport is stupid and they don't know about yahoo?? Damn I gotta emai them this link ASAP!!!!
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  #19  
Old 06-01-2013, 09:37 AM
ajdoha234 ajdoha234 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SFbay View Post
Smart question.
Ok it won't do anything bad bc your car runs already at 90C on the hwy.
DME won't throw anything, it will only complain when temps are lower than 70C and higher than 120C. I drove 3000 mls with this tstat and no check engine or anything, my car actually feels much happier and faster now in the city.
It's of course aftermarket, I ordered it from German factory, it produces regular 105 tstats for bmws as well so they've been around for a while. They also make special orders for DINAN as well, so they are pretty reputable company.
You've got special test in your dashboard so you can see exact running temp at the moment.
I spent lots of time fighting with my e66 and I had to order 100pcs to manufacture this special order.
Sorry to keep bugging you but you keep forgeting to send me the buying info. Whats the link?
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  #20  
Old 06-01-2013, 09:48 AM
mountainman3520 mountainman3520 is offline
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Re: How to make your f01 run 200k+

Hmm, I'm suspicious of ideas with the following attributes:
- claim to know better or be smarter than large groups of experts in the field
- involve a conspiracy theory
- proposed by someone who is selling something and trying to profit from them
- include getting something for nothing, or at least a long list of pros with basically no admitted cons
- seem to good to be true

Doesn't this thread seem to align with all of these attributes?
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  #21  
Old 06-01-2013, 09:53 AM
Ultimate_drivin Ultimate_drivin is offline
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So if I change my tstat on my 645 I won't have to change the o ring that goes under the valley pan?
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  #22  
Old 06-01-2013, 10:02 AM
ajdoha234 ajdoha234 is offline
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Im also really curious how this would affect the warranty if the swapped out tstat went bad, since these are not OEM parts.
Anyway, I think Im done posting on this thread. I think I will stick with the original parts.
I can only imagine my horror if I swapped it out, and something happened to my brand new car, only to find out I vioded a perfectly good warranty and broke a new car and had to come out of pocket to fix it.
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Old 06-01-2013, 10:06 AM
SFbay SFbay is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mountainman3520 View Post
Hmm, I'm suspicious of ideas with the following attributes:
- claim to know better or be smarter than large groups of experts in the field
- involve a conspiracy theory
- proposed by someone who is selling something and trying to profit from them
- include getting something for nothing, or at least a long list of pros with basically no admitted cons
- seem to good to be true

Doesn't this thread seem to align with all of these attributes?
Well after you start wasting money on your bimmer you will stop asking these questions.
Conspiracy??? No cons?? So all those dinan and other upgrades are useless as well? I'm sorry it's just a simple theory, prob you're not good in physics and thermodynamics at all.

There is no link, I have these tstats for 110$ each if you buy one. I ordered them and only 98 pcs left so far. I just wanted ppl from F01 to realize this problem as well.
Why corvette guys also complain about running too hot and there are aftermarket cooler tstat you can buy.
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  #24  
Old 06-01-2013, 10:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Ultimate_drivin View Post
So if I change my tstat on my 645 I won't have to change the o ring that goes under the valley pan?
Nope. It's 20 mins job if you have 10mm socket and small wrench It will save your car from this:


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  #25  
Old 06-01-2013, 11:18 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 926
Mein Auto: g11
Quote:
Originally Posted by SFbay View Post
You sure you have M3???))
Also you don't know when it opens
Get inpa and check life data first before these statements
I respect everyone bringing important/interesting information to the boards, but you should tone down a bit before your statements start sounding hysterical.

I repeat, the operating temp. of an m3 is pretty much the same as f01, which is 105C. This is a fact and not theory, like what you have in hand.
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