Welcome to Bimmerfest -- The #1 Online Community for BMW related information! Please enjoy the discussion forums below and share your experiences with the 200,000 current, new and past BMW owners. The forums are broken out by car model and into other special interest sections such as BMW European Delivery and a special forum to voice your questions to the many BMW dealers on the site to assist our members!

Please follow the links below to help get you started!

Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > X Series > X3 E83 (2004 - 2010)

X3 E83 (2004 - 2010)
Talk about the E83 BMW X3 in this forum!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 11-13-2010, 11:29 PM
AK65 AK65 is offline
Registered User
Location: Durban, South Africa
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 7
Mein Auto: 2005 BMW X3 2.0d
Gallons of water in footwells - 2005 X3

Hi There

My first post. Hi.

Now to the problem. After a night of heavy, consistent rainfall, I noticed as I drove up my driveway to work, a sloshing sound. I saw a pool of water in the passenger (left side for us who drive on the left) footwell. There was a pool at least 1.5" of water in there. The rear footwell was worse.

I immediately suspected the sunroof, but the roof lining was bone dry. No evidence of water spilling in there.

I vacuumed a LOT of water, but more kept on coming. It seemed to be dry, and then it would just get wet again. I removed the round plastic widgets that keep the rubber carpets in place (you know the ones that don't work because the velcro has fallen off). This released a torrent of water. I vacuumed this up, but more water kept on rising.

I eventually had to remove the passenger seat and trim to lift the carpets. Then the full horror of the situation was apparent. The carpets sit on rubber foam at least 6 - 8" thick. So when you see surface water or dampness in the footwells, the water is already 6" deep. The foam does a good job of soaking it up and making sure that it stays damps for weeks or months.

Now I read all the threads about the sunroof leaks, but I find it hard to believe that the sunroof could release such a volume of water. A few drops, sure, but gallons? My intuition as an engineer says not.

I think I have got to the bottom of the problem, which involves some poor engineering, and also where you park your car.

The air intake system for the cabin ventilation I believe is the problem here. Water that runs down the windscreen eventually lands up on a plastic cover that covers the pollen filter. If you open the bonnet, you will see this just below the windscreen wipers in the middle of the windscreen. There are three release catches to open the plastic cover. On the left and right hand corner, there are drain holes fitted with rubber grommets that are supposed to drain the water away. Mine were blocked with leaves, grass, and organic matter. When it rains heavily, and the car is standing, a lot of water will run down the windscreen. If the holes are blocked, the water will dam up and then eventually overflow into the cabin, under the carpet, unseen, and by the time you notice it as surface water, like I said the water is already 8" deep. By the stains around the pollen filter, it is evidence that this is what happened to my car.

Also, where the windscreen pivots are mounted, there is some sort of rubber seal that's supposed to keep the water from running down there. It doesn't work, because there is not enough positive pressure on it. Water running underneath the plastic cover at the bottom of the windscreen drips from these points straight onto the pollen filter. If the rate is high enough, the filter will saturate with water and also start to leak water into the cabin ventilation system

I am amazed at how poorly engineered this system is. The rubber grommets also have end stoppers which will assist in the organic matter not running out of the system.

So to sum up, check this drainage system regularly if you park under trees. While the sunroof leaks are irritating, this type of leak can be catastrophic.

Note that you will not be able to know whether your car is leaking until it's way too late. A tell tale sign that this leak has been happening, is to look at the screws holding down the plastic speaker grill under the driver's and passenger's seat. If there is any discolouration or rust on the screw heads, water is there and your car has been leaking. It just hasn't got to the surface yet. I've got to go now, I will post photos later.
Reply With Quote
Ads by Google
  #2  
Old 11-14-2010, 01:31 AM
PPXYZ PPXYZ is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: West Coast
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 672
Mein Auto: BMW X3 2009 AT
Don't drive it off road, don't park it near trees or leave it out in the rain...I'm thinking of leaving mine inside the garage for the duration.

Sorry to hear about your problems. Thank you for the heads up on this issue.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 11-14-2010, 05:24 AM
X3emist's Avatar
X3emist X3emist is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: NW Georgia USA
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,308
Mein Auto: 06 X3 Sport
Search the forum

there is a lot of info here concerning sunroof drains and vapor barriers in the doors. Yours sounds like the doors. I have pics in an earlier post of what and where to look for signs that this is in fact the issue.
__________________
2006 X3 Silver Grey/Black Lthr/Alum Trim/Sport Prem Pkg/Xenons/Servotronic/Prem Sound/Satellite Radio/Heated Seats/Carbon Fiber Pillars/Blue Tooth/Aux In/Cargo Net/Aluminum Pedals/V1 Hardwired
[SIGPIC]
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 11-14-2010, 09:58 AM
AK65 AK65 is offline
Registered User
Location: Durban, South Africa
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 7
Mein Auto: 2005 BMW X3 2.0d
X3emist,

Have to disagree with you there. Where I looked, there is positive evidence of the water damming up in the air intake area and running into the cabin. I did check the sunroof drains, they are working 100% (Poured water in all the channels and checked and heard it running out where it's supposed to).

The drain holes and the entire area where the air intake is was completely blocked with organic rotting plant material. I saw evidence that the water had risen and run over the edge. What annoys me is when I bought the car, the dealers did a motorplan takeover check and it's patently obvious they didn't clear this out.

I'm about 99% sure I've nailed the problem. I'll check some posts on the vapour membranes, but my engineering intuition doesn't agree that this may be the problem - reason there was no dampness on the door sills. I'll do a search and look for the pics to see what you mean about vapour barriers. In the meantime, I'll post some pics of what I've discovered on the drain holes.

Last edited by AK65; 11-15-2010 at 07:58 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 11-14-2010, 12:07 PM
Supercourse Supercourse is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: British Columbia, Canada
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 3,084
Mein Auto: 2004 X3 2.5i
Quote:
Originally Posted by AK65 View Post
Also, where the windscreen pivots are mounted, there is some sort of rubber seal that's supposed to keep the water from running down there. It doesn't work, because there is not enough positive pressure on it. Water running underneath the plastic cover at the bottom of the windscreen drips from these points straight onto the pollen filter. If the rate is high enough, the filter will saturate with water and also start to leak water into the cabin ventilation system
Did you mean to say the hood/bonnet pivots?

Always wanted one of those pivoting windshields like on 1930's MG's!

Are you referring to the heavier rubber seal/moulding that runs around where the brake servo is (and the corresponding empty bin on the other side)?
I thought those were more for preventing noise transmitting through to the cabin?

Anyway, timely reminder for me to clean out the leaves and change the activated charcoal cabin filter.
(After vacuuming out the housing.)
Just very dry leaves in my case, so not sure what the trigger is for rain water to start causing a problem.

Maybe just a particular combination of climate, types of trees, parking downhill, etc.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 11-14-2010, 03:44 PM
PPXYZ PPXYZ is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: West Coast
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 672
Mein Auto: BMW X3 2009 AT
I'm not sure I am looking at the same area but I see a plastic catch basin underneath the middle of the windshield. There are some plastic screens with rather large holes that may prevent the largest leaves from falling in.

I had a couple of dry leaves in it along with some at the edges of the hood. From the way it is constructed, it seems that if it overflowed with gunk the water would run out of it and into the engine compartment or back up the windshield.

It is hard to tell how flush the bottom of the hood is with the top of the compartment. At any rate there is a hole on the side (maybe one on each side) that looks like it would dribble water out into the engine compartment if the basin were entirely full.

Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 11-15-2010, 07:57 AM
AK65 AK65 is offline
Registered User
Location: Durban, South Africa
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 7
Mein Auto: 2005 BMW X3 2.0d
OK

Some photos at last:

136 Shows the cabin air intake water cover. The screws are circled. If you rotate these anticlockwise (there are 3, 2 are shown in the pic), then the cover tilts backward to reveal the pollen filter and the drain holes.


139 Shows the wiper pivot mount point (above) and the drain hole grommet (below) with the filter in place.

140 Shows the actual drain hole grommet. There is one on the left and one on the right side.

143 Shows a view with the filter removed. The arrows point to where there is clear evidence (muddy stains) that the water dammed up and overflowed into the cabin.

144 Shows the wiper pivot point (a nice spout that spews water onto the pollen filter)

145 Shows water running out of this and directly onto the pollen filter. Sorry about the quality of the pic, but you can see what happens. Whether this happens when the cover is closed is debatable. I think over time it will leak. If yours is stained, then it is leaking.

Both drain holes were completely gummed up with composting organic matter in my car.

To my mind, if you park under trees, this is far more likely to be a problem than the sunroof not draining properly.

FWIW. I hope you find this info useful. My car is starting to dry out and smell of BMW leather again. This is a good thing.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMAG0143.jpg
Views:	1912
Size:	63.3 KB
ID:	254723   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMAG0144.jpg
Views:	1588
Size:	73.0 KB
ID:	254724   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMAG0145.jpg
Views:	1292
Size:	57.8 KB
ID:	254725   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMAG0136.jpg
Views:	1640
Size:	93.6 KB
ID:	254726   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMAG0139.jpg
Views:	1401
Size:	74.2 KB
ID:	254727  

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMAG0140.jpg
Views:	1340
Size:	61.3 KB
ID:	254728  
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 11-15-2010, 09:20 AM
Supercourse Supercourse is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: British Columbia, Canada
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 3,084
Mein Auto: 2004 X3 2.5i
I thought those 2 larger holes, on the left and right of the filter housing, were part of the inlet air flow, not drain holes for water.

Could it be that the black plastic below the wiper pivots got distorted somehow?
Can't see how with the contour on mine it would ever let water into the filter area.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 11-15-2010, 10:15 AM
UncleJ UncleJ is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Silicon Valley
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 6,526
Mein Auto: '06 X3
Could there be a difference in this between the gassers and diesels? Hard to think there is but that might account for the differences shown. My upper firewall area doesn't look like that either. I did find lots of pine needles stuck down in the nooks and crannies and vaccumed them up, so thanks for the heads up on that.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 11-15-2010, 12:01 PM
AK65 AK65 is offline
Registered User
Location: Durban, South Africa
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 7
Mein Auto: 2005 BMW X3 2.0d
Surprised it doesn't look like mine

Point I'm trying to make is that it's relatively simple to keep these things clear, all you have to do is stuff a finger in the hole and push all the gunk out the bottom. If you're parking under trees, it's far more likely that this area, which is exposed to the elements, will be a potential for a large leak, rather than the sunroof, which is sort of sealed. This whole area is also much more likely to cause problems if your car is parked and it rains, because water will then run down the windscreen. If you're barrelling down the freeway, the water tends to run up the windscreen.

Just hope I'm right. Hasn't rained much yet (well just a little). But I did check this out with the hose and a LOT of water gets in there.

Supercourse, I'm pretty positive that those holes are for water drainage, since they empty into the engine bay, and there's dirty air in there. That's why there's a flap at the end of the grommet - sort of a one way valve -- water goes out, but air is not drawn in.

The annoying thing is that my wifes cheap 'n cheerful Toyota is bone dry inside
I've read a lot of posts about this problem and I find it incredible that after 120 odd years of making cars, these type of basic issues still crop up.........Are they learning anything at all? End of rant....
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 11-15-2010, 05:42 PM
Supercourse Supercourse is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: British Columbia, Canada
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 3,084
Mein Auto: 2004 X3 2.5i
Quote:
Originally Posted by AK65 View Post
.... I'm pretty positive that those holes are for water drainage, since they empty into the engine bay, and there's dirty air in there. That's why there's a flap at the end of the grommet - sort of a one way valve -- water goes out, but air is not drawn in.
Right you are! Just looked on realoem.com

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...09&hg=64&fg=10

The housing is more modular that I would have thought.

But note that they say there is only 1 water outlet valve. I suppose you only really need one to fulfil that purpose, but not sure why they would have the second hole.
LHD or RHD diagrams seem to be the same, but having the valve on the passenger side would make sense from a road camber point of view.

The 2 curved water drains above are possibly subject to cracking over time - hence designed as a replaceable part.
That's one other instance where I could see water dripping down to the base and the outlet valve coming into play.
(Other than the water drains getting clogged, that is.)
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 11-15-2010, 07:02 PM
shendrick shendrick is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Near Boston MA
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 129
Mein Auto: 08 M3, 05 e46 zhp, 07 X3
Sorry for your epic - but thanks for alerting the rest of us. Great analysis.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 11-15-2010, 09:42 PM
AK65 AK65 is offline
Registered User
Location: Durban, South Africa
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 7
Mein Auto: 2005 BMW X3 2.0d
Quote:
Originally Posted by Supercourse View Post
Right you are! Just looked on realoem.com

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...09&hg=64&fg=10

The housing is more modular that I would have thought.

But note that they say there is only 1 water outlet valve. I suppose you only really need one to fulfil that purpose, but not sure why they would have the second hole.
LHD or RHD diagrams seem to be the same, but having the valve on the passenger side would make sense from a road camber point of view.
They only *show* one of the drain valves - if you look carefully there are two holes there. It's common for only one of two parts to be shown to declutter the diagram.

Remember, when they are designing these parts, they try to make them applicable to both LHD and RHD models. That cuts down on parts inventory and costs. You may notice that the upper part with the grid has two indentations, one will be blank where a RHD wiper pivot would be.

In my mind though, the whole thing looks like it was designed in a hurry and within a space that is less than optimal. That's because generally cars are designed to look cool first, and to function properly, second.

The old cars had slots in the bonnet for air intake. This is a much more simplified design. A lot less water gets in that way. But it doesn't look cool, so we get kludge designs that don't work so well. All in the name of progress.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 11-15-2010, 11:44 PM
PPXYZ PPXYZ is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: West Coast
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 672
Mein Auto: BMW X3 2009 AT
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=412363

"be careful! my buddy just had this happen in his boxster and it partially flooded the interior and swamped some electrical stuff so now the car won't start. he is shuddering to see what it is going to cost him. I have never heard of this happening with a bimmer (not sure if it is a design flaw with the porsche) but I will make sure I check mine now and again!!! not that it's really rained here in NJ much in the past 3 mos!"
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 11-16-2010, 07:13 AM
UncleJ UncleJ is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Silicon Valley
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 6,526
Mein Auto: '06 X3
Thanks, I am taking another look at mine.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 11-16-2010, 08:55 AM
X3emist's Avatar
X3emist X3emist is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: NW Georgia USA
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,308
Mein Auto: 06 X3 Sport
Standard procedure on a BMW

This is a standard maintenance item on a BMW. My older E39 has short rubber one way drains that I periodically have to unclog. Better check the X too.
__________________
2006 X3 Silver Grey/Black Lthr/Alum Trim/Sport Prem Pkg/Xenons/Servotronic/Prem Sound/Satellite Radio/Heated Seats/Carbon Fiber Pillars/Blue Tooth/Aux In/Cargo Net/Aluminum Pedals/V1 Hardwired
[SIGPIC]
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 11-17-2010, 01:15 PM
shendrick shendrick is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Near Boston MA
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 129
Mein Auto: 08 M3, 05 e46 zhp, 07 X3
I checked out my micro filter and foud a mouse or chipmunk nest at one corner plus a bunch of good sized leaves (since it is fall here in New England). Hadn't plugged a drain - but might have if I had let it go for another year. It only took 60 seconds to check it out. Everyone would be crazy to risk what happened to AK65 given how easy it is to just check what is in there. You don't even have to remove anything - just reach up under the filter and see if you find any leaves or other stuff. If so, then further exploration involving taking the cover off the filter would be appropriate.

Last edited by shendrick; 11-17-2010 at 06:49 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 12-21-2010, 06:43 PM
littleE46 littleE46 is offline
Registered User
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 66
Mein Auto: 2002 330ci conv
My X3 has a damp floor on the passenger side. Dropped the lining and checked the drain hose for the sunroof, tight with no leaks. Water drains freely out behind the front wheel. After reading this thread I checked the cabin filter housing. Sure enough there were leaves and stuff stuck down both drain holes. Clearly given the shape of the plastic housing if water cannot drain through the two holes and it fills the tray then it will overflow the front edge of the tray which leads directly into the cabin.

The two pictures show the problem with the tray in the SAV and removed.

Regardless I'm still not convinced this is my problem. The leaves were filling the drains but I don't see how they were blocking it. I'll probably have to wait until spring to dry the entire interior out and systematically trace this problem.

One other possibility is that the outer drain on the sunroof could overflow if the drains don't clear the water fast enough. If that happens water seems to flow freely behind the A-Pillars. So leaving the sunroof slightly open could be another possibility. It rains so often here in Vancouver it's easy to slip up.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	P1060803.png
Views:	1091
Size:	444.5 KB
ID:	259321   Click image for larger version

Name:	P1060804.png
Views:	966
Size:	498.9 KB
ID:	259322  
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 12-23-2010, 01:08 PM
Gino215 Gino215 is offline
Account Under Review
Location: PA USA
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 75
Mein Auto: X5
I had a same problem with a Saab few years ago and it was a sunroof, I conected compressor and clean all drains with the air and my problem was solved, I did not believe just like you lots of water was on the floor, but that was a problem.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 03-09-2011, 11:07 AM
Standpoint Standpoint is offline
Registered User
Location: Boston, MA
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 2
Mein Auto: BMW X3
How did you remove the water?

Great recap of the problem and prevention procedure, but how can I remove the water underneath the footwells? Like some of you have experienced, the water that I was able to remove continues to reappear because of what is below the carpeting?

How can I get that out before it becomes more of a problem?
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 03-09-2011, 04:48 PM
X3emist's Avatar
X3emist X3emist is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: NW Georgia USA
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,308
Mein Auto: 06 X3 Sport
Several things

Shop vac and a bunch of towels, put a fan on it, run heat and a/c to suck up moisture.

Best solution is pull the front seats and remove carpeting and lay it out to dry somewhere.
__________________
2006 X3 Silver Grey/Black Lthr/Alum Trim/Sport Prem Pkg/Xenons/Servotronic/Prem Sound/Satellite Radio/Heated Seats/Carbon Fiber Pillars/Blue Tooth/Aux In/Cargo Net/Aluminum Pedals/V1 Hardwired
[SIGPIC]
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 03-10-2011, 01:49 AM
AK65 AK65 is offline
Registered User
Location: Durban, South Africa
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 7
Mein Auto: 2005 BMW X3 2.0d
Agree with you X3mist. I took out the front seats plus a bunch of trim. I then vacuumed up the water & squeezed out the sponge and left it open overnight. Be prepared, its not going to be pretty under there, and its probably not the first time this has happened. It's pretty urgent you dry it out though, to avoid the carpet and underfoam rotting. &also to stop rust....

Sent from my HTC Desire using Bimmer App
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 03-10-2011, 06:13 AM
Standpoint Standpoint is offline
Registered User
Location: Boston, MA
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 2
Mein Auto: BMW X3
What a mess..

I was hoping for a simple drain plug solution - but that would be too easy. Thank you both very much for the response.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 07-27-2011, 05:01 PM
Lindzybird Lindzybird is offline
Registered User
Location: Long Grove, Il
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 1
Mein Auto: X3
I just brought my 2006 X3 to the dealer for saturated floorboards on the passenger side. He reacted as though I had a unique situation and said there is nothing wrong with the car after his mechanic looked for a problem. I expressed my concern that I had read that this is a widespread problem and that many people returned time and time again with this problem not getting fixed the first time. I'm concerned. I have only had the car for a few months. I noticed earlier on that my winter (plastic) floor mats on the passenger side would get loaded with condensation and assumed it had something to do with the weather changing; now I think I have had this problem all along. How do I get my service advisor to admit this is a problem? And fix it???
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 07-27-2011, 07:24 PM
chrisk03 chrisk03 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Northeast
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 669
Mein Auto: 2011 335i M-Sport
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lindzybird View Post
I just brought my 2006 X3 to the dealer for saturated floorboards on the passenger side. He reacted as though I had a unique situation and said there is nothing wrong with the car after his mechanic looked for a problem. I expressed my concern that I had read that this is a widespread problem and that many people returned time and time again with this problem not getting fixed the first time. I'm concerned. I have only had the car for a few months. I noticed earlier on that my winter (plastic) floor mats on the passenger side would get loaded with condensation and assumed it had something to do with the weather changing; now I think I have had this problem all along. How do I get my service advisor to admit this is a problem? And fix it???
Is there water in both the front and back of the passenger side of the vehicle? If both or just front, it's probably the clogged filter area below the windshield. If just the back passenger foot well, it's probably the vapor barrier or clogged sunroof drains. There is a Service Bulletin out there somewhere and if your SA doesn't know about this, sorry, he's either new to BMW or a .... This is a VERY well known problem...so much so, BMW released a Service Bulletin on it years ago. Find it and email it to him and/or tell him you can show him 20,000 posts about it...ha.

We had this issue with our 2004 X3 last year and had to take it in 3 times before they fixed it right...and before I found out about it on Bimmerfest. They eventually replaced the vapor barrier in the rear driver's side door and it solved the problem...and they covered the labor even though I was out of warranty because I had been there 2 other times. Good luck, but be firm, I'm sure he can check his internal BMW system for "sunroof leaks" or "vapor barrier".
__________________

2011 335i M-Sport, BMW Performance Powerkit Version 1, BMW Performance Exhaust, 35% F1 Pinnacle Tint
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Forum Navigation
Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > X Series > X3 E83 (2004 - 2010)
Today's Posts Search
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On



Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:08 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
© 2001-2011 performanceIX, Inc. All Rights Reserved .: guidelines .:. privacy .:. terms