Formula 1 2011 <<<<SPOILER>>>>

Originally Posted by Patrick

Santander flipped Petrov off after they crossed the finish line.

Classy.

Patrick,

Santander name is everywhere, its a bank. What is the Santander that you use above? You know I'm slow so help me out here.

Originally Posted by white75li

So what are the rule changes for next year I know f-duct and double deck diffuser banned, increased min weight, adjustable wings anything else. I hope they change safety car rules they just don't make sense we missed a lot of good battles cause of them.

Turbos and ground effects on 4 cyl cars in 2013. In 2011 KERS comes back but more powerful. Can discharge more energy per lap than former KERS. The inertia wheel systems will be in some cars. Porsche has already used the wheeled system to great effect.

This is new (as of today).

Hülkenberg to Ferrari.

He would probably be a perfect teammate for the diva drama queen.

Originally Posted by franka

Patrick,

Santander name is everywhere, its a bank. What is the Santander that you use above? You know I'm slow so help me out here.

Alonso's seat at Ferrari is being bank rolled for by the Spanish bank, Santander. Therefore, Alonso is referred to as, "Santander," or, "El Banco," by Spanish and Italian Formula 1 fans that do not like him because of this.

Originally Posted by Patrick

Alonso's seat at Ferrari is being bank rolled for by the Spanish bank, Santander. Therefore, Alonso is referred to as, "Santander," or, "El Banco," by Spanish and Italian Formula 1 fans that do not like him because of this.

Thanks

So Alonso had the bank buy a seat for him in a Ferrari?

I thought only the lower ranked drivers had to buy rides. What have things come to in F1? How long before they start buying wins?

Originally Posted by white75li

So what are the rule changes for next year I know f-duct and double deck diffuser banned, increased min weight, adjustable wings anything else. I hope they change safety car rules they just don't make sense we missed a lot of good battles cause of them.

Twin diffusers gone. Blown rear wings gone. Moveable front wing elements gone. Coming in... Larger diameter wheels. KERS is back. Moveable rear wing element. So far, there's a lot of speculation but no one knows what the next engine formula will be. Also, there is no confirmation of ground effects being allowed. I think it's unlikely. They were already banned and among all the talk of trying to slow the cars down, ground effects would only make them faster.

I'm disappointed that blown wings will be banned. Airflow management is the most interesting technical aspect of this sport and an area of great ingenuity. It's a shame to limit it.


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Originally Posted by Patrick

This is new (as of today).

Hülkenberg to Ferrari.

He would probably be a perfect teammate for the diva drama queen.

Where did you see this?


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Originally Posted by jonathan2263

Twin diffusers gone. Blown rear wings gone. Moveable front wing elements gone. Coming in... Larger diameter wheels. KERS is back. Moveable rear wing element. So far, there's a lot of speculation but no one knows what the next engine formula will be. Also, there is no confirmation of ground effects being allowed. I think it's unlikely. They were already banned and among all the talk of trying to slow the cars down, ground effects would only make them faster.

I'm disappointed that blown wings will be banned. Airflow management is the most interesting technical aspect of this sport and an area of great ingenuity. It's a shame to limit it.

I disagree about the use of ground effects. GE, under body tunnels and side skirts, will let the cars run much closer and aid in passing. That is what everyone is looking for, more passing.

The tunnels and the skirts could be limited to keep cornering speeds under control. Use GE to limit the front wing width allowing more cars to stay on track after side to side skirmishes instead of breaking end plates and half the wing requiring a trip to the pits and an automatic drop from the top ten.

Speaking of cornering, wide and long curves at the end of straights is another formula for more passing. Do away with most chicanes and have penalties for those who use the short cuts at the remaining chicanes. Replace the chicanes with more wide curves where there is room for two and three cars wide. Like on stock circle tracks. That will provide exciting passing on the inside and outside. Who do I tell at the FIA and the circuts?

Originally Posted by jonathan2263

Where did you see this?


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Don't question Patrick, he's connected with high ranking inside authorities.

Originally Posted by jonathan2263

Where did you see this?

La Stampa.

http://www.lastampa.it/sport/cmsSezi...0584girata.asp

Oh, but that is in Italian...

Originally Posted by franka

So Alonso had the bank buy a seat for him in a Ferrari?

I thought only the lower ranked drivers had to buy rides. What have things come to in F1? How long before they start buying wins?

Frank,

Where were you a year ago when Santander bought Räikkönen's contract out, and paid him 21 million Euros NOT to drive for Ferrari anymore? Heck, we even discussed the whole situation here - at length!

Not only did they buy El Banco's seat with Ferrari, they became the principle sponsor of the team.

As far as buying wins, who do you think helped decide the outcome of the German Grand Prix this year? Easy. The boss of Santander, Ferrari's guest of honor at the race.

Originally Posted by Patrick

Frank

As far as buying wins, who do you think helped decide the outcome of the German Grand Prix this year? Easy. The boss of Santander, Ferrari's guest of honor at the race.

Prove it.


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Originally Posted by jonathan2263

Prove it.

The race stewards already did.

Originally Posted by Patrick

Frank,

Where were you a year ago when Santander bought Räikkönen's contract out, and paid him 21 million Euros NOT to drive for Ferrari anymore? Heck, we even discussed the whole situation here - at length!

Not only did they buy El Banco's seat with Ferrari, they became the principle sponsor of the team.

As far as buying wins, who do you think helped decide the outcome of the German Grand Prix this year? Easy. The boss of Santander, Ferrari's guest of honor at the race.

Kimi's personality did not suit Ferrari. They wanted someone Italian and more impulsive, the "red wine and spaghetti" type. (term taken from another source, not my term even though descriptive.)

One GP win means nothing.

Originally Posted by Patrick

The race stewards already did.

Actually , what they proved is that Ferrari used team orders to affect the outcome of the race . I read about 6 different F1 related websites and in not one of them has any mention been made of the CEO of Santander having an influence on that decision .

So once again , I'm not trying to pick a fight , I'm just looking for more information . If you can show me an article proving where the CEO / President of Santander has a say on decisions from the Ferrari pit wall during races , I would like to see it .

Originally Posted by jonathan2263

Actually , what they proved is that Ferrari used team orders to affect the outcome of the race . I read about 6 different F1 related websites and in not one of them has any mention been made of the CEO of Santander having an influence on that decision .

So once again , I'm not trying to pick a fight , I'm just looking for more information . If you can show me an article proving where the CEO / President of Santander has a say on decisions from the Ferrari pit wall during races , I would like to see it .

I have been a fan of SF, and I know how desperately the Tiffosi can be about wanting their team, or a particular driver to win. At all costs. Regardless of the price.

I also have a brain and I can see when money manipulates things.

You want transcripts or documents to prove that Botin arranged the race result, but you know that these don't exist.

But hey, Santander/Alonso had no idea that Piquet Jr was told to crash, allowing him to win the Singapore Grand Prix.

Anyway, let's remember who is paying the big money for El Banco's seat. Yes, the fat guy on the left (and Luca does actually look good in that jacket).

Originally Posted by Patrick

I have been a fan of SF, and I know how desperately the Tiffosi can be about wanting their team, or a particular driver to win. At all costs. Regardless of the price.

I also have a brain and I can see when money manipulates things.

You want transcripts or documents to prove that Botin arranged the race result, but you know that these don't exist.

But hey, Santander/Alonso had no idea that Piquet Jr was told to crash, allowing him to win the Singapore Grand Prix.

Anyway, let's remember who is paying the big money for El Banco's seat. Yes, the fat guy on the left (and Luca does actually look good in that jacket).

There was clearly a team order, but do you really believe if Alonso was the driver struggling in the standings and Massa was the driver performing better, that they would have told Massa to allow Alonso to pass to please the CEO of Santander? They were backing the driver who actually had a shot at winning the driver's championship at the expense of a driver who was never going to contend for the title.

Originally Posted by GoBlue5

There was clearly a team order, but do you really believe if Alonso was the driver struggling in the standings and Massa was the driver performing better, that they would have told Massa to allow Alonso to pass to please the CEO of Santander? They were backing the driver who actually had a shot at winning the driver's championship at the expense of a driver who was never going to contend for the title.

Sort of my point . Ferrari has used team orders in the past and I'm sure will in the future . The bottom line is winning and they will do whatever is called for to achieve the goal . I do believe that if the situation was reversed , Massa would have been given preference just as he was in '08. But based on his results this year , a decision was made to favor the driver who they thought had the better chance to win the WDC .

By the way , if you remember , that's exactly the same thing RBR did at Silverstone . Vettel was given Webbers new spec wing and the team stated quite plainly , they did it because they were favoring the driver who was ahead in the championship . I'm not saying that was wrong but clearly Vettel is Mate*****z / Marko's golden boy and they were doing what they thought was in their best business interests .

Santander , just like RedBull have goals when they sponsor a sports team or event . Certainly Santander , just like RedBull want to align themselves with a national hero who can bring as much publicity as possible . There's nothing wrong with that and we should be thankful that such corporations exist to feed our favorite sports .

Originally Posted by GoBlue5

There was clearly a team order, but do you really believe if Alonso was the driver struggling in the standings and Massa was the driver performing better, that they would have told Massa to allow Alonso to pass to please the CEO of Santander? They were backing the driver who actually had a shot at winning the driver's championship at the expense of a driver who was never going to contend for the title.

Gentlemen, please have a look a the bigger picture. It is not just one race. And it is all about the money.

Santander Bank bought Alonso's seat, the #1 seat in Ferrari no less. They paid Räikkönen not to drive, and pay Alsonso's fat salary, which is at least double what Massa gets from Marlboro and Shell.

Santander paid Räikkönen more money than Massa's salary: who calls the shots?

If there was ever going to be a situation where #2 had to make way for #1, the Santander money is paying for that - they are the main sponsor for the team, and are heavily invested in El Banco. Thus, the German Grand Prix.

That said, it was rather ironic how the camera showed Señor Botin in the SF garage at about the same time that Massa/Barrichello was being asked if he understood that Santander was quicker than him...

If Massa had no motivation to support El Banco in the last races of 2010, it shouldn't be a surprise to anyone.

With Ferrari, it is all about politics and the MONEY.

FrankA, you said that Räikkönen's personality did not suit Ferrari. I would argue that it was the other way around.

deleted error

Originally Posted by franka

TTodt

No.

Massa is Todt's choice, di Montezemolo chose Räikkönen.

Hmmm.

Who won the WDC?

By Matt Beer and Michele Lostia Thursday, November 18th 2010, 17:40 GMT


Jean Todt says Ferrari's use of team orders in the German Grand Prix was too 'provocative' for the FIA not to take action, but underlined that he believes many other teams have employed similar tactics in more subtle ways since the rules banning team orders were introduced.

Ferrari was fined by the Hockenheim race stewards after Felipe Massa moved aside to allow team-mate Fernando Alonso to take the race win. Although the team was summoned to appear before the FIA World Motor Sport Council, the council chose not to take any further action and announced that it would revisit the team orders regulations to see if they needed amending.

"Team orders are banned since 2002, however I've asked myself: how many times have orders been issued in a 'soft' way since then?" Todt told La Stampa.

"The difference is that the one issued by Ferrari was everything but soft. It was a provocation against the regulations."

He suggested that the review of the rules would see the regulation modified rather than scrapped altogether.

Originally Posted by Patrick

No.

Massa is Todt's choice, di Montezemolo chose Räikkönen.

Hmmm.

Who won the WDC?

You responded to an error in my posting

Originally Posted by Patrick

Gentlemen, please have a look a the bigger picture. It is not just one race. And it is all about the money.

Santander Bank bought Alonso's seat, the #1 seat in Ferrari no less. They paid Räikkönen not to drive, and pay Alsonso's fat salary, which is at least double what Massa gets from Marlboro and Shell.

Santander paid Räikkönen more money than Massa's salary: who calls the shots?

If there was ever going to be a situation where #2 had to make way for #1, the Santander money is paying for that - they are the main sponsor for the team, and are heavily invested in El Banco. Thus, the German Grand Prix.

That said, it was rather ironic how the camera showed Señor Botin in the SF garage at about the same time that Massa/Barrichello was being asked if he understood that Santander was quicker than him...

If Massa had no motivation to support El Banco in the last races of 2010, it shouldn't be a surprise to anyone.

With Ferrari, it is all about politics and the MONEY.

FrankA, you said that Räikkönen's personality did not suit Ferrari. I would argue that it was the other way around.

You make is sound like the bank is paying the drivers directly. The bank sponsors Ferrari and Ferrari pays the drivers and decides what to do. Yes, No?

So Kimi left and not that Ferrari let him go? Is that what you are saying?