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X5 E70 (2007 - 2013)
E70 BMW X5 produced between 2007 and 2013. Discuss the E70 X5 with other BMW owners here.

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  #101  
Old 12-23-2010, 05:51 PM
smuggymba smuggymba is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ard View Post
You are a salesman for BMW, so surely you wish to rebuke this possibility.

But remember, BMW doesn't really give a crap about how demand affects YOUR profit- all their care about is their ability to sell cars at invoice! They'll build as many cars as they can to sell at invoice, anything more is not a concern of theirs.

Now are you going to argue they try to protect dealer profits and idle plants (or throttle them back) to do so?
just came back from the dealership, offered 500 over invoice and they said this is not possible....will go to another dealership tomorrow.

I asked the salesperson about the invoice price...he replied back saying "what do you mean by invoice price".
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  #102  
Old 12-23-2010, 07:05 PM
ard ard is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smuggymba View Post
just came back from the dealership, offered 500 over invoice and they said this is not possible....will go to another dealership tomorrow.

I asked the salesperson about the invoice price...he replied back saying "what do you mean by invoice price".
1. When he said "not possible" did you ask what IS possible??????? This is a critical question. Had he said "MSRP" you're done...had he said "$2000 over cost" you are dealing with someone who deals.

2. If you ask they about invoice, they know you are weak. You TELL them what the invoice price is...or better, don't even bother to discuss it. Simply negotiate their profit on the deal.

I negotiated a deal in a few calls, simply discussing their 'profit'...and when the car arrived, my numbers and their numbers were spot on. Thinking a dealer will confirm or discuss "invoice" is usually a bad move. They will only discuss it once you've proven you know it!

Last edited by ard; 12-23-2010 at 07:31 PM.
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  #103  
Old 12-23-2010, 09:14 PM
smuggymba smuggymba is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ard View Post
1. When he said "not possible" did you ask what IS possible??????? This is a critical question. Had he said "MSRP" you're done...had he said "$2000 over cost" you are dealing with someone who deals.

2. If you ask they about invoice, they know you are weak. You TELL them what the invoice price is...or better, don't even bother to discuss it. Simply negotiate their profit on the deal.

I negotiated a deal in a few calls, simply discussing their 'profit'...and when the car arrived, my numbers and their numbers were spot on. Thinking a dealer will confirm or discuss "invoice" is usually a bad move. They will only discuss it once you've proven you know it!
Rightly said ard. The salesperson wanted to sell me the car at MSRP because X5 35d's are hot cakes and no one has them in stock and they're extremely hard to find. He also mentioned that he has never done a sale 500 over invoice. So, I gave him an offer saying - I'll pay this much and my check book is here and i'm ready to finish the paper work. He then went to talk to his manager and said, it can't happen. I told him to give me a call if he changed his mind.....will go to another dealership tomorrow. This time I'll "give" tlhe invoice/cost upfront and see where it goes.

Are 500 over cost deals impossible?

Last edited by smuggymba; 12-23-2010 at 09:16 PM.
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  #104  
Old 12-23-2010, 09:57 PM
smuggymba smuggymba is offline
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Can we order a BMW straight from the factory in Spartanburg, SC? Is it cheaper?
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  #105  
Old 12-23-2010, 10:48 PM
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Stussy109 Stussy109 is offline
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sticker was 65645, sale price was 55900. 2011 alpine white X5D from prestige BMW ramsey (they had it in stock exactly how i wanted it) to take advantage of tax credit. Bmw of Atlantic City will match that price, but you will have to order it. Had the same deal in place there but would have had to wait until the end of january
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  #106  
Old 12-24-2010, 12:35 AM
brenner88 brenner88 is offline
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2011 x5d

I ordered mine today and is expected to arrive in March.

$57,500 (includes eco credit and $2500 incentive). Sales tax here is steep, 9.8%. Anyone with comparable options? What did you pay?

A couple of hours after ordering, my dealer called and informed the $1800 tax credit won't apply because the vehicle won't be delivered by EOY and the tax credit won't be renewed for 2011

Deep Sea Blue Metallic
Oyster Nevada Leather
Dark Bamboo wood trim

Cold Weather Package
Premium Package
Premium Sound Package
Technology Package

Comfort Access keyless entry
Multi-contour seats
Head-up Display
Roof rails
Smartphone Integration
Smartphone Integration
Rubber Floor Mats
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  #107  
Old 12-24-2010, 07:57 AM
kck7 kck7 is offline
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Angry

Quote:
Originally Posted by smuggymba View Post
Rightly said ard. The salesperson wanted to sell me the car at MSRP because X5 35d's are hot cakes and no one has them in stock and they're extremely hard to find. He also mentioned that he has never done a sale 500 over invoice. So, I gave him an offer saying - I'll pay this much and my check book is here and i'm ready to finish the paper work. He then went to talk to his manager and said, it can't happen. I told him to give me a call if he changed his mind.....will go to another dealership tomorrow. This time I'll "give" tlhe invoice/cost upfront and see where it goes.

Are 500 over cost deals impossible?
I went through almost exactly the same scenario a couple of days ago at my local dealership. He gave me a figure that I later computed to equal $1000 over invoice PLUS $600 doc fee PLUS MACO/Ad of $600 = $2200 over invoice (but $1600 of that is profit 'cos they actually pay MACO etc- he showed me the invoice). They also gave me about 10% more for my trade than any other dealer, so I figured what the heck. This store is 10 minutes from my house, the next one is over an hour away.

I would have ordered but would have lost the $1800 for sure, plus I did not have confidence the car could be built in time to get the 3500 + 2500. I would have loved to take SC delivery though...

All in all I paid maybe $400-600 more than I should have for that car. Not a big deal in the long run. What is somewhat more annoying is that after taking delivery, I have been reading about how bad the BMW nav is compared to say Acura MDX (which was my second choice and my original first choice of SUV). My philosophy always was to get a car without nav and then I read this...
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  #108  
Old 12-24-2010, 08:26 AM
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Stussy109 Stussy109 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kck7 View Post
I went through almost exactly the same scenario a couple of days ago at my local dealership. He gave me a figure that I later computed to equal $1000 over invoice PLUS $600 doc fee PLUS MACO/Ad of $600 = $2200 over invoice (but $1600 of that is profit 'cos they actually pay MACO etc- he showed me the invoice). They also gave me about 10% more for my trade than any other dealer, so I figured what the heck. This store is 10 minutes from my house, the next one is over an hour away.

I would have ordered but would have lost the $1800 for sure, plus I did not have confidence the car could be built in time to get the 3500 + 2500. I would have loved to take SC delivery though...

All in all I paid maybe $400-600 more than I should have for that car. Not a big deal in the long run. What is somewhat more annoying is that after taking delivery, I have been reading about how bad the BMW nav is compared to say Acura MDX (which was my second choice and my original first choice of SUV). My philosophy always was to get a car without nav and then I read this...
I owned both a new acura with nav (the mdx still uses the same touch screen) and a new BMW with NAV, the bmw is harder to input the address via finger, however easy by voice. The BMW Nav itself with the 3d perspective is wayyyy nicer than acura's IMO
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  #109  
Old 12-24-2010, 08:28 AM
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Jim E. Jim E. is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smuggymba View Post
Rightly said ard. The salesperson wanted to sell me the car at MSRP because X5 35d's are hot cakes and no one has them in stock and they're extremely hard to find. He also mentioned that he has never done a sale 500 over invoice. So, I gave him an offer saying - I'll pay this much and my check book is here and i'm ready to finish the paper work. He then went to talk to his manager and said, it can't happen. I told him to give me a call if he changed his mind.....will go to another dealership tomorrow. This time I'll "give" tlhe invoice/cost upfront and see where it goes.

Are 500 over cost deals impossible?
Given the demand for the X5d it's probably easier to get 1K over invoice.

If they bitch about that tell them their being greedy when they take into account EVP! They will know exactly what you're talking about.
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  #110  
Old 12-24-2010, 09:06 AM
smuggymba smuggymba is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim E. View Post
Given the demand for the X5d it's probably easier to get 1K over invoice.

If they bitch about that tell them their being greedy when they take into account EVP! They will know exactly what you're talking about.
What's EVP.....holdback??
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  #111  
Old 12-24-2010, 09:14 AM
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Originally Posted by smuggymba View Post
What's EVP.....holdback??
They may have changed the acronym or whatever they call it but if holdback means a kickback (%) to the dealer based on the base MSRP of the vehicle, then yes.
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  #112  
Old 12-24-2010, 09:35 AM
smuggymba smuggymba is offline
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Originally Posted by Jim E. View Post
They may have changed the acronym or whatever they call it but if holdback means a kickback (%) to the dealer based on the base MSRP of the vehicle, then yes.
yes, holdback is the % that the dealer gets back from BMW for selling the car.

Last edited by smuggymba; 12-24-2010 at 10:09 AM.
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  #113  
Old 12-24-2010, 10:00 AM
kck7 kck7 is offline
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Speaking of holdback etc (back-end money in general), the F&I guy told me, when I asked about how soon I can pre-pay the 0.9% loan I got (I don't like paying interest, no matter how little). He said "any time" but if I do it before 6 months then the dealership gets charged $2500 by BMW Finance, which basically eats up all their profit and often more.

Can anyone verify or refute either or both parts of his answer, with accuracy?
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  #114  
Old 12-24-2010, 10:20 AM
AnonCA AnonCA is offline
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RE:"Now are you going to argue..."...no, I'm not arguing anything. Arguing wastes my time. It was a thought. Apparently you had one as well.
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  #115  
Old 12-24-2010, 10:22 AM
kck7 kck7 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stussy109 View Post
I owned both a new acura with nav (the mdx still uses the same touch screen) and a new BMW with NAV, the bmw is harder to input the address via finger, however easy by voice. The BMW Nav itself with the 3d perspective is wayyyy nicer than acura's IMO
Thank you. On one of the other threads (the big one I think) I read a lot of complaining about this nav. I hope my experience proves them wrong.
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  #116  
Old 12-24-2010, 01:36 PM
smuggymba smuggymba is offline
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Just placed an order with 2000 over invoice and I'm not really excited with it. Can we always cancel and get our deposit back?
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  #117  
Old 12-24-2010, 01:53 PM
ard ard is online now
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Originally Posted by AnonCA View Post
RE:"Now are you going to argue..."...no, I'm not arguing anything. Arguing wastes my time. It was a thought. Apparently you had one as well.
Sorry, "argue" is in the legal term... like "I suppose you would then say".
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  #118  
Old 12-24-2010, 01:54 PM
ard ard is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smuggymba View Post
Just placed an order with 2000 over invoice and I'm not really excited with it. Can we always cancel and get our deposit back?

Wow. Some kind of record. You made someone's christmas....

For $2000 over you should be getting the precise car you want from a dealer somewhere in the US before the end of the year (so you can get the IRS credit).

Yes, you can cancel, unless you signed something that says otherwise.

Last edited by ard; 12-24-2010 at 01:58 PM.
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  #119  
Old 12-24-2010, 01:57 PM
ard ard is online now
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Originally Posted by smuggymba View Post
Can we order a BMW straight from the factory in Spartanburg, SC? Is it cheaper?

Not cheaper, but you can buy it from any dealership anywhere in the US...and pick it up in SC. So the odds of finding a dealer that is willing to deal is higher.
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  #120  
Old 02-22-2011, 04:00 PM
IMC55 IMC55 is offline
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Hello! What are people paying for a 2011 X5 35d in California (with technology package, premium package, space saver spare, rear climate control)? All the local dealerships are claiming that the demand is so high that they are not discounting any prices. Most are saying MSRP. Some say $1500 over invoice, but I'm sure they are making up for it somewhere else. I got quoted $3500 off MSRP, but that just means they took the eco credit and pocketed it for themselves. Ends up being about 1300 over invoice (calculated based on information I found, but not the dealer's actual invoice) if the eco credit is applied to save off MSRP. I heard that good deals are harder to come by in California. Anyone else have this experience?
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  #121  
Old 02-22-2011, 04:08 PM
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JMK JMK is offline
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order one from one of the board sponsors in the ask a dealer section. The eco credit is from BMW. Don't take it from MSRP. Get your best deal over invoice as said here many times and then apply the eco credit. From what I understand, the eco credit is going away fro good soon, so order now!
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  #122  
Old 02-22-2011, 04:30 PM
IMC55 IMC55 is offline
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Thanks, JMK. I've checked out these board sponsors and all they want to give me is $1500 over invoice and none of them have the 35d. The dealership that wanted to give me the eco credit off msrp also gave me the highest trade in value. Guess they want to rob me of the credit, but make me feel better by saying they can give more for my trade in. Every dealership I visited in California didn't even have an X5 on the lot... all were ordered and they claimed they sold them as soon as they got them.
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  #123  
Old 02-22-2011, 06:12 PM
ard ard is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IMC55 View Post
Thanks, JMK. I've checked out these board sponsors and all they want to give me is $1500 over invoice and none of them have the 35d. The dealership that wanted to give me the eco credit off msrp also gave me the highest trade in value. Guess they want to rob me of the credit, but make me feel better by saying they can give more for my trade in. Every dealership I visited in California didn't even have an X5 on the lot... all were ordered and they claimed they sold them as soon as they got them.
First, when we say "1500 over invoice" what this really means is "1500 profit to the dealer".

Do you understand this distinction? (edit: I think you do, but wanted to amplify)

This means you need to compute the dealers "true cost" then add 1500. The "invoice" over on edmunds is not their true cost....they pay maco and training and delivery on top of the 'invoice' of the car and packages- but then they also DON'T pay the $3500 eco credit. So that comes off.

If you are negotiating a trade, you will pay more. Period. The less 'baggage' you have on a deal the higher the odds they will cut a slim deal. Once they know you have a trade it is like running from a mugger with your wife on your arm.... I'd negotiate independently, and go to carmax for the trade. (What is it?)

NOBODY has a 35d. If you are dreaming of finding one on a lot, like you want, at 1500 over, forget it. They will get MSRP for it. Order one.

Finally, the truth is that every dealer (except Niello) has a spectum of 'deals' they will approve. If you are talking to front line sales pukes, they will blow you off to get to the customer who they really want (who will take a sucky deal)...you need to be persistent, spread a wide net and hope to catch someone on a good day.
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  #124  
Old 02-22-2011, 06:49 PM
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quackbury quackbury is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ard View Post
Finally, the truth is that every dealer (except Niello) has a spectum of 'deals' they will approve. If you are talking to front line sales pukes, they will blow you off to get to the customer who they really want (who will take a sucky deal)...you need to be persistent, spread a wide net and hope to catch someone on a good day.
And you are more likely to find a "good day" at the end of the month - next week at this time someone will be struggling to find ONE MORE deal, and will be more likely to accept a "mini" offer just to hit their target. Two weeks from now? Fuggedaboutit.

Also, make sure you mention that you will give the CA perfect CSI scores. The bonus they get is likely worth far more to them than the profit on your particular unit.
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  #125  
Old 02-22-2011, 07:39 PM
TDS1 TDS1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JMK View Post
order one from one of the board sponsors in the ask a dealer section. The eco credit is from BMW. Don't take it from MSRP. Get your best deal over invoice as said here many times and then apply the eco credit. From what I understand, the eco credit is going away fro good soon, so order now!
What have you heard? Is the current 2/28/11 really the end or did you hear it would get extended beyond that?

I am trying to figure what happens if you order now and the production date is after April 1. For the X5D, will it be a 2012 at that point?

Last edited by TDS1; 02-22-2011 at 07:47 PM.
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