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E82 / E88 1 Series (2008 - 2013)
BMWs throw back to the iconic 2002, with a renewed form and function. The smallest car in BMW's line up but still packs a punch. Available in coupe or convertible, powered by either an inline 6 in the 128 or the twin turbo rocket sled 135.

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  #26  
Old 11-20-2010, 09:48 AM
JimD1 JimD1 is offline
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The BMW 1 series is not unreliable, the 135i is a little worst than average due to HPFP issues. A real database, like TrueDelta, will differentiate between turbo cars and normally aspirated cars and give you data you can you. CR has to know what the issue is so this statement is over-reaching and dishonest but they publish it anyway. They obviously go for the sensational rather than providing good information. The 128i is very reliable.

TrueDelta does not have enough data on each 1 series model so them lump it together and it gets a 64 - 64 trips to the dealer per 100 cars per year. That is above average. But if you look at the mechanically similar 328 and 335, you get 25 and 47 respectively. So roughly twice the trips to the dealer for the turbo model. If you want, you can look at exactly what the trip were for to confirm the HPFP issue (I have, it is).

By contrast, from CR you get a silly inaccurate headline and no real data. Not useful and not really intended to be. Just intended to sell magazines.

Jim
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  #27  
Old 11-20-2010, 02:58 PM
C-Bear C-Bear is offline
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Originally Posted by sambb View Post
HONESTY?

It has not been CR that is dishonest! It has been BMW! The HPFP has a serious flaw!

It is hard to fault CR, when BMW has introduced a serious flaw into numerous model lines (1, 3, 5 series), and they only admitted fault when a newscast was going to rat them out.

They have claimed several times that the issue has been fixed - 5 different iterations of the HPFP... come on?

I don;t understand how this is an indictment of CR?!?!?!
It's an indictment of CR because it's easier for certain individuals stricken with an acute case of brand devotion to attack a magazine that has correctly highlighted BMW's failings with the N54 than it is to acknowledge that in this case they bet on a bad horse.

All hail the effort justification effect.

You, on the other hand, have pointed the finger in exactly the right direction.
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  #28  
Old 11-20-2010, 03:11 PM
C-Bear C-Bear is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimD1 View Post
The BMW 1 series is not unreliable, the 135i is a little worst than average due to HPFP issues. A real database, like TrueDelta, will differentiate between turbo cars and normally aspirated cars and give you data you can you. CR has to know what the issue is so this statement is over-reaching and dishonest but they publish it anyway. They obviously go for the sensational rather than providing good information. The 128i is very reliable.

TrueDelta does not have enough data on each 1 series model so them lump it together and it gets a 64 - 64 trips to the dealer per 100 cars per year. That is above average. But if you look at the mechanically similar 328 and 335, you get 25 and 47 respectively. So roughly twice the trips to the dealer for the turbo model. If you want, you can look at exactly what the trip were for to confirm the HPFP issue (I have, it is).

By contrast, from CR you get a silly inaccurate headline and no real data. Not useful and not really intended to be. Just intended to sell magazines.

Jim
Whereas you're correct that it's overwhelmingly the HPFP causing the poor reliability scores for all models with the N54, could you please point us to where CR is lumping the turbo and naturally aspirated models together as having poor reliability?

Because I'm holding the November issue of CR in my hand right now, looking at the car ratings section, and the 135i is very clearly denoted as having poor predicted reliability -- not the "1 Series". Also, the 328i is clearly denoted as having good predicted reliability. So it appears CR is indeed differentiating between turbo and naturally aspirated models, and stating it's the turbos that have the problems.
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  #29  
Old 11-20-2010, 03:20 PM
C-Bear C-Bear is offline
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Originally Posted by BestCS View Post
Consumer Reports has identified the BMW 1 series with the worst reliability record ever. The problem mainly lays with the High Pressure Fuel Pump (HPFP), but the real problem is the company can't find a fix for it. They have tried five iterations without any success.

BMW will replace it without any questions asked and has even given a 5-year 120K miles warranty on the part. The real problem is the car stops dead in its tracks when the HPFP fails. Imagine what's going to happen to you if you are in heavy fast freeway traffic?

I'm afraid I'm out of the market for a car with these dangerous problems.
Your information is bad on the CR report -- it's the 135i that they gave poor predicted reliability to; the 128i was given better marks. So no, CR did not put this on the entire 1 series line-up.

Your information is bad about the reliability record -- they never identified the 1 as having "the worst reliability record ever".

Your information is bad on the BMW extended warranty, as corrected by another poster.

You're a troll.
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  #30  
Old 11-20-2010, 03:22 PM
C-Bear C-Bear is offline
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Originally Posted by jatbeni View Post
This is one instance where you can curse the farm lobby and their push for higher ethanol in gas... the one singular factor behind the higher HPFP failure rate.
A topic debated deadly back-and-forth. You have any definitive proof, or just talking like it, 'cause as far as I know you'd be the first.

Last edited by C-Bear; 11-20-2010 at 03:33 PM.
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  #31  
Old 11-20-2010, 03:27 PM
C-Bear C-Bear is offline
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Originally Posted by BestCS View Post
Well I value CR's many years of research and testing greatly over your uninformed "opinion".
I like CR, too, they often do good work -- but they're just one data point in what should be a larger overall field of research.

And you're claiming that a 135i with a shot HPFP will "stop dead in its tracks", which is entirely absurd, so be careful who you call "uninformed".
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  #32  
Old 11-20-2010, 03:36 PM
sambb sambb is offline
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everyone buying a BMW or owning one should be ashamed of BMWs response to the whole HPFP issue, only coming out after a national inquiry from a news magazine. They have tried numerous times to fix it.

BMW makes great cars, but the after-sales responsibility issue, which has been highlighted by the HPFP issue, is VERY revealing on what type of company this is. If this happened to MB or Audi or Lexus, the fanboys here would be all over them.

It is a serious knock on BMWs reputation, and again, I have owned 7 BMWs since the 80s.

The whole HPFP issue, and how it has been mishandled, and even how currently, people are being deceived about it (SAs saying it is a non-issue - like heck!)

The market for the 135/335/535 models with the engine is depressed now - as it should be. If anyone googles the car, they can find out its flaws

I applaud CR for its honesty in rating the car, and if you are a defender of BMW for this issue, then I am sure BMW can sell you just about anything

That being said - when the engine works, it is fantastic... I grant you that. Unfortunately, the models have a serious flaw and I dont wish the model on anyone in the secondhand market.
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  #33  
Old 11-20-2010, 05:06 PM
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PolkNole PolkNole is offline
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Is there ANY link to these comments by CR? Because I subscribe to CR and have seen nothing of the sort.

Perhaps a troll post?
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  #34  
Old 11-20-2010, 05:09 PM
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Originally Posted by sambb View Post
The market for the 135/335/535 models with the engine is depressed now - as it should be.
OK, can YOU support these comments?

Sheez. Can anybody stick to facts?
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  #35  
Old 11-20-2010, 07:01 PM
sambb sambb is offline
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Go to your dealers and look for a used 335i - they will fall over themselves to deal it to you, and even "lemons" and buy backs for HPFP, make it into certified preowned sections - it is a travesty
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  #36  
Old 11-20-2010, 07:07 PM
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Originally Posted by sambb View Post
Go to your dealers and look for a used 335i - they will fall over themselves to deal it to you, and even "lemons" and buy backs for HPFP, make it into certified preowned sections - it is a travesty
So...you have no facts...

I have very current #s that show your statement to be inaccurate.
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  #37  
Old 11-20-2010, 07:24 PM
sambb sambb is offline
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So you have no facts!
Great.
For those interested, I would google HPFP. FOrget the hype - this car is flawed. It is unfortunate for such a great company. Well, we can hope that future BMWs will nothave this problem. But if you own one now, sell before the further dive in prices.
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  #38  
Old 11-20-2010, 07:30 PM
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Originally Posted by sambb View Post
So you have no facts!
Great.
For those interested, I would google HPFP. FOrget the hype - this car is flawed. It is unfortunate for such a great company. Well, we can hope that future BMWs will nothave this problem. But if you own one now, sell before the further dive in prices.
Oh jeez, now its a "dive" with zero facts...
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  #39  
Old 11-21-2010, 08:27 AM
BestCS BestCS is offline
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Originally Posted by C-Bear View Post
I like CR, too, they often do good work -- but they're just one data point in what should be a larger overall field of research.

And you're claiming that a 135i with a shot HPFP will "stop dead in its tracks", which is entirely absurd, so be careful who you call "uninformed".
Dead fuel pump->no fuel->dead engine->car stops moving.

You should be careful about trying to understand logical arguments.

You'll find plenty of comments about the 135i's reliability in CR and other places. This problem is a big deal regardless of all the apologists here for BMW's miserable engineering failures past and present.

I recently visited a BMW service facility, and they became visibly upset when I interrogated them about the problem. Privately I was told that dealers "might" be limiting their inventory of turbos due to this problem. Also this problem does have an impact upon non-turbo cars.
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  #40  
Old 11-21-2010, 08:47 AM
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Best, can you post any link to this article? I contend that you are a troll and that this does not actually exist.
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  #41  
Old 11-21-2010, 12:16 PM
sambb sambb is offline
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it is not trolling to point out BMWs utter failure with this car and engine! Give us a break - it is one of the worst quality control issues in all of modern german cars - and BMW has tried with over 4 pumps to fix it - unsuccessfully. At least the japanese companies have issued recalls for their cars and have fixes. They have learned their lesson.
As a buyer of 7 BMWs, I find BMW's response to the HPFP issue a total travesty. I will continue to own BMWs, but I will never recommend the car with the flawed engine to anyone. It is a terrible situation, that is potentially unsolvable.

If you are going to buy a 135i, preowned, beware.
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  #42  
Old 11-21-2010, 12:47 PM
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sambb, you are trolling if what you say you pull out of your arse. I asked you twice now to back up your values statement. After which you just ratcheted up the nonsense, again with no evidence.

I just bought an 07 e92. What you say is false. I also have daily pricing data from Manheim that shows you are wrong.
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  #43  
Old 11-21-2010, 01:32 PM
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Originally Posted by adgrant View Post
HFP problem is an N54 issue so it applies equally to the 135, 335, 535, X3 3.5si, X5 35, 535GT.
+1

This topic is totally slighted. Why is the 1 series being singled out here? As mentioned above it is an N54 high pressure direct injection fuel pump problem which is not limited to the 1er. All BMW models that used the N54 engine is subjected to this potential problem.

My 07 335i has never had this problem however there are 335i owners who have reported up to 4 HPFP replacements. BMW has now issues a voluntary recall to replace the bad fuel pump along with a software update. The software problem may actually have been the root of the problem in the first place.

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  #44  
Old 11-21-2010, 01:56 PM
C-Bear C-Bear is offline
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Originally Posted by BestCS View Post
Dead fuel pump->no fuel->dead engine->car stops moving.

You should be careful about trying to understand logical arguments.
While you're attempting to wrap your brain around basic logic just enough so that you can fail to wield it as a club, may I also direct you to a course in classical physics; do pay close attention to the concept of inertia, which hopefully will help you to better understand what happens to an object in motion when its energy source is depleted. Simply -- in deference to you -- said object will not "stop dead in its tracks" (bonus hint: it slows down to a standstill.)

In the many documented instances of HPFP failures, not one has resulted in accident or injury, so do get over yourself, drama queen.
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  #45  
Old 11-21-2010, 02:24 PM
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thumper_330 thumper_330 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C-Bear View Post
While you're attempting to wrap your brain around basic logic just enough so that you can fail to wield it as a club, may I also direct you to a course in classical physics; do pay close attention to the concept of inertia, which hopefully will help you to better understand what happens to an object in motion when its energy source is depleted. Simply -- in deference to you -- said object will not "stop dead in its tracks" (bonus hint: it slows down to a standstill.)

In the many documented instances of HPFP failures, not one has resulted in accident or injury, so do get over yourself, drama queen.
Not to mention the fact that the failure mode of the HPFP is reduced system pressure... not a loss of pressure. Hence the limp mode. An N54 equipped car with a failed HPFP can still be driven a short distance (~10-15 miles approximately) at moderate to low speeds... partly because the failed HPFP will still supply fuel, and the vacuum effect of the engine will still draw fuel from the tank.

But even in the event of a total system pressure loss the engine will sputter and die, but the car will continue to coast. If you're in heavy traffic and grind to a halt then the worst you're going to do is annoy those behind you. If you're on the highway you should have more than enough inertia to pull over to the side of the road and call for help. Like you said; remedial physics.

A friend of mine owns an 08 335i and he did have one HPFP failure a few months back. He said that had he not had the indication of a failure on the dash he would barely have been aware of the problem. He was on suburban streets driving about 25-30mph. He then drove the car to the dealer where they diagnosed HPFP failure and replaced it.
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  #46  
Old 11-21-2010, 02:57 PM
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Originally Posted by thumper_330 View Post
Not to mention the fact that the failure mode of the HPFP is reduced system pressure... not a loss of pressure. Hence the limp mode. An N54 equipped car with a failed HPFP can still be driven a short distance (~10-15 miles approximately) at moderate to low speeds... partly because the failed HPFP will still supply fuel, and the vacuum effect of the engine will still draw fuel from the tank.

But even in the event of a total system pressure loss the engine will sputter and die, but the car will continue to coast. If you're in heavy traffic and grind to a halt then the worst you're going to do is annoy those behind you. If you're on the highway you should have more than enough inertia to pull over to the side of the road and call for help. Like you said; remedial physics.

A friend of mine owns an 08 335i and he did have one HPFP failure a few months back. He said that had he not had the indication of a failure on the dash he would barely have been aware of the problem. He was on suburban streets driving about 25-30mph. He then drove the car to the dealer where they diagnosed HPFP failure and replaced it.
I made an appointment, drove around for three days with an HPFP failure, then took it to the dealer and also got my sunroof fixed, all under warranty. It was never the slightest safety issue, and I still rate my N54 car experience a 10 out of 10.
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  #47  
Old 11-22-2010, 01:13 AM
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Andrew*Debbie Andrew*Debbie is offline
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Originally Posted by adgrant View Post
It's going to hurt the resale of all BMWs if buyers are paying attention.
If buyers were paying attention to the details they would know the problem is confined to a few models.

128i does not have the fuel pump issue.
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  #48  
Old 11-22-2010, 07:58 AM
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Originally Posted by JimD1 View Post
When CR does testing and reports the results, they are worth listening to. Unfortunately they do no real tests on cars. They may have somebody drive them around and make comments but there are better places to get that sort of information. Their feedback is so limited (above average, what does that mean? How does it compare to a smaller or larger vehicle? What if the owner loves his vehicle and considers a trip to the dealer a month acceptable? What if that is not acceptable to you? CR is just not a good source of information. As you can probably tell, the thing that bothers me most is I do not think they are honest.

Jim
And this is where you lose all credibility. Consumer Reports has a track, professional test drivers, and puts 10s of thousands of miles on cars as part of their testing. As opposed to other car magazines, they also buy their test vehicles at retail. The other magazines use press cars provided by the manufacturer, which leaves the door open to cheating.

Remember Edmunds showing that the 335i BMW had provided it for testing ran more boost than retail sold cars?

Say what you want about the reader survey methodology, but their actual road testing is solid.
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  #49  
Old 11-22-2010, 11:37 AM
mazdaspeed3KING mazdaspeed3KING is offline
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Originally Posted by PolkNole View Post
Oh jeez, now its a "dive" with zero facts...
Ha ha that was hilarious...


Quote:
Originally Posted by PolkNole View Post
I made an appointment, drove around for three days with an HPFP failure, then took it to the dealer and also got my sunroof fixed, all under warranty. It was never the slightest safety issue, and I still rate my N54 car experience a 10 out of 10.
Wow, that's good. At least you can still drive home and to the dealership for servicing. I find the "Limp" mode really cool. So far I have not yet seen / heard of 2011 model 135i/335i HPFP failing... Would be really cool if BMW actually fixed this issue.
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  #50  
Old 11-22-2010, 02:41 PM
sambb sambb is offline
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The issue is that the BMW N54 engine + HPFP is fatally flawed, and BMW hasnt been able to fix the issue. Those are facts, not opinions.
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