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E39 (1997 - 2003)
The BMW 5-Series (E39 chassis) was introduced in the United States as a 1997 model year car and lasted until the 2004 when the E60 chassis was released. The United States saw several variations including the 525i, 528i, 530i and 540i. -- View the E39 Wiki

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  #1  
Old 11-20-2010, 04:11 PM
adev adev is offline
AdeV
Location: New Zealand
 
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E39 Rattling Rear Brake Pads

G'day,
One of the other members of bimmerfest, a guy by the name of DZeckhausen posted a topic (actually he responded to one) back in 2006 regarding the rattling of E39 brake pads. In his response he mentioned a product called Permatex grease, I'd like to know exactly which Permatex product he was referring to so that I can use it to stop the "chatter" of my inside rear brake pads on my 1998 528i.
According to the Permatex web site they produce and sell a number of products, I obviously want to get the correct one.
At the moment I'm having to drive around town with the stereo on full blast to drown out the chattering - I obviously chose the wrong mechanic to get the brake pads replaced !!
Any suggestions guys - product name, approx price and best place to get it from - I reside in NZ ???
cheers,
AdeV
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  #2  
Old 11-20-2010, 04:58 PM
Jase007 Jase007 is offline
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You might save some money by removing the inner pads and spreading the metal spring clips wider before reinstalling.

This normally tightens the inner pad up and stops the rattle.

There are several Permatex products for different applications. Some are here:

http://www.amazon.com/Permatex-20353.../dp/B0008MGIF6

Brake caliper grease it to lube pad to caliper bracket contact points

Brake pad quiet is to apply to back of pads, let set up a little and then install pads.
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  #3  
Old 11-20-2010, 06:09 PM
Rjim Rjim is offline
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Starting with the obvious, make sure your caliper retaining clips are in place. After replacing my front brakes, I had a rattle and discovered one the clips had fallen off and disappeared due, no doubt, to my over-bending the clip on removal.
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  #4  
Old 11-20-2010, 07:44 PM
adev adev is offline
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Location: New Zealand
 
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Guys,
Thanks for the prompt responses.
I've checked that all relevant anti rattle clips are firmly in place and they appear to be secure. I must admit to being a little reluctant to bending out the inner pads spring clips in case they snap.
I will acquire some of the Permatex products and give them a go, failing that I'll be buying some Heavy Metal CD's !!
Once again...thanks,
AdeV
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  #5  
Old 11-20-2010, 07:45 PM
adev adev is offline
AdeV
Location: New Zealand
 
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Guys,
Thanks for the prompt responses.
I've checked that all relevant anti rattle clips are firmly in place and they appear to be secure. I must admit to being a little reluctant to bending out the inner pads spring clips in case they snap.
I will acquire some of the Permatex products and give them a go, failing that I'll be buying some Heavy Metal CD's !!
Once again...thanks,
AdeV
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  #6  
Old 11-20-2010, 08:05 PM
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bluebee bluebee is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rjim View Post
Starting with the obvious, make sure your caliper retaining clips are in place.
I agree. If you have rattling, then it's most likely something "mechanical".

BTW, a factory brake job is almost dry.

See details here:
- E39 4-wheel brake DIY fluids
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  #7  
Old 11-21-2010, 04:22 AM
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AnotherGeezer AnotherGeezer is offline
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Mine rattle too. Rolling up the windows stops it.
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  #8  
Old 11-21-2010, 04:58 AM
xraye39 xraye39 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adev View Post
Guys,
Thanks for the prompt responses.
I've checked that all relevant anti rattle clips are firmly in place and they appear to be secure. I must admit to being a little reluctant to bending out the inner pads spring clips in case they snap.
I will acquire some of the Permatex products and give them a go, failing that I'll be buying some Heavy Metal CD's !!
Once again...thanks,
AdeV
Yes, but have you pulled off the inner brake pad checked that the prongs on the inner pad are spread enough so that the inner pad is held securely by the brake piston? Most likely this is where the problem is.

No need to worry about bending the inner pad prongs, they are quite sturdy and designed for the function. You are wasting your time on Permatex and dreaming about Heavy Metal CDs
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| PP | Xenons | Style 42s | OEM TCU Bluetooth | Euro Armrest | Beisan Vanos Seals |

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  #9  
Old 11-21-2010, 09:29 AM
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gchand gchand is offline
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I replaced the rear pads a couple of months ago with some Akebonos that I noticed did not have as tight a spring clip fit as the originals, and got the rattle going on now. If only I had consulted the forum first would not have to redo.
When I first noticed that the pad retaining springs were a looser fit I just thought that the normal static pad to rotor contact pressure would prevent any issues. Not so with these.

Last edited by gchand; 11-21-2010 at 10:17 AM.
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  #10  
Old 11-21-2010, 09:59 AM
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bmw_n00b13 bmw_n00b13 is offline
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My spray shield has rusted through one of the retaining screws and makes a bit if a rattling noise. Any chance it's not the pads?
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  #11  
Old 11-21-2010, 10:05 AM
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gchand gchand is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmw_n00b13 View Post
My spray shield has rusted through one of the retaining screws and makes a bit if a rattling noise. Any chance it's not the pads?
Pretty certain it is the pads. I have no rusting going on in those bits.
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  #12  
Old 11-21-2010, 02:10 PM
adev adev is offline
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Location: New Zealand
 
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So... I took off the caliper, removed the inner pad, got my pair of sturdy long nose pliers and "gently" bent out the retaining clips - three in total - and guess what... they do snap off !!!!

Looks like I'll be winding up my windows after all. Anyone got any AC/DC albums I can borrow ??

AdeV
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  #13  
Old 11-21-2010, 02:50 PM
xraye39 xraye39 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adev View Post
So... I took off the caliper, removed the inner pad, got my pair of sturdy long nose pliers and "gently" bent out the retaining clips - three in total - and guess what... they do snap off !!!!

Looks like I'll be winding up my windows after all. Anyone got any AC/DC albums I can borrow ??

AdeV
Sorry to hear that. I am trying to visualize how they could have snapped off, never heard of it happening before, you only need to bend them a tad in order to get a snug snapped in fit.

My aftermarket, blue light special pads must be sturdier or you opened up a can of whoop ass on those prongs.
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2003 530iA Sport - Titangrau Metallic/Schwarz Montana
Build Codes: ZSP/ZPP/ZCW. Born on date: 09/02, Dingolfing, Deutschland

NAV MKIV | PP | CWP | Xenons | Style 42s | Rear Shades | OEM ULF Bluetooth | Euro Armrest | Beisan Vanos Seals |

2003 530i/5Spd Sport - Titanium Silber/Schwarz Montana
| PP | Xenons | Style 42s | OEM TCU Bluetooth | Euro Armrest | Beisan Vanos Seals |

2001 525iA - Anthracite Metalic / Grau Montana
Sold but in the "family"
| Euro Armrest | Beisan Vanos Seals |
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  #14  
Old 11-21-2010, 04:21 PM
helpmyfive helpmyfive is offline
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I was convinced my pads were rattling too. Then I took the car to the dealer for a wheel alignment where they showed me the play in the lower rear ball joints. The worn out joints made the noise I was hearing while driving. If you haven't checked yet, lift the rear wheel and try to rock the wheel by pushing and pulling the top and bottom in opposite directions. My wheels rock about a 1/4 inch.
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  #15  
Old 11-21-2010, 09:59 PM
adev adev is offline
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Location: New Zealand
 
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Well guys, I'm obviously stronger than I thought.

The ball joints appear fine. The car passed a transport safety inspection (WOF in NZ) only a week ago and that includes testing of all relevant ball joints and suspension points.
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  #16  
Old 11-22-2010, 07:23 AM
Jase007 Jase007 is offline
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Another place to look is a loose parking / emergency brake cable / pivot pin / shoes to the affected rotor / side.

These cables can stretch over time / use.

Also, most shops won't pull the caliper bracket and rear rotor to inspect the rear E-brake shoes inside the rotor (act as internal drum brakes on inside of rotor hat).



* Check that #8 is secure, #9 (pieces) are in correct place, #6 star adjuster can be rotated and isn't maxed out, rest of stuff is in place.

BMW hasn't changed this setup in eons. Same system on my 198X E30s as on the E39.

Cam (CN90) has done a DIY for replacing them and Bentley has a good procedure for adjusting them.

Note: If the E-brake shoes are sufficiently worn there may not be enough threaded rod/cable on the E-brake cable where you adjust it in the cabin (left end of #1 in picture above) after pulling up the hand-brake / E-brake leather cover - (or the star adjuster that spreads the E-brake shoes at the rear hub - # 6 above) to accommodate.

Note #2: I also found the bolts securing the hand-brake/E-brake lever loose where it attaches to the unibody tunnel on mine (bolt #2 bellow):



Good luck.
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  #17  
Old 11-22-2010, 08:00 PM
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mmm635 mmm635 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adev View Post
Well guys, I'm obviously stronger than I thought.

The ball joints appear fine. The car passed a transport safety inspection (WOF in NZ) only a week ago and that includes testing of all relevant ball joints and suspension points.
Try using the following if you can find it in your neck of the woods. I have used it for years and have never had brake issues. yes, I have seen those clips break many times over the years. Once you install the pads with this CRC, it will set the pads in place and stop them from vibrating - especially in your predicament.

Also, a commonly overlooked thing on the rear brakes is the clips that attach to the caliper. They tend to bend over time and become loose. When you depress the brakes they do not rattle, but when you are off they jiggle around and sound like the pads. So, double check and make sure they are tight. If not, then just bend them back or buy new ones.


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  #18  
Old 11-22-2010, 11:23 PM
adev adev is offline
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Location: New Zealand
 
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Guys,
This may be a dumb question to ask - but that's never stopped me in the past .... I see on the last entry from Michel, that he suggests looking at the clips that attach to the calliper. Do you mean the clips that are rivetted onto the back of the inside brake pads, the clip that I broke !! or are you referring to another clip.
As I've stated, the clips on the rear of the inside brake pads are secured on by a rivet, I'm assuming you can't purchase just the clips...can you ?? Probably be just as cheap to buy a new set of pads !

Whilst I think on...thanks to you all for the many suggestions and advice (along with diagrams and product tips) it is appreciated.
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  #19  
Old 11-23-2010, 05:37 AM
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mmm635 mmm635 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adev View Post
Guys,
This may be a dumb question to ask - but that's never stopped me in the past .... I see on the last entry from Michel, that he suggests looking at the clips that attach to the calliper. Do you mean the clips that are rivetted onto the back of the inside brake pads, the clip that I broke !! or are you referring to another clip.
As I've stated, the clips on the rear of the inside brake pads are secured on by a rivet, I'm assuming you can't purchase just the clips...can you ?? Probably be just as cheap to buy a new set of pads !

Whilst I think on...thanks to you all for the many suggestions and advice (along with diagrams and product tips) it is appreciated.
Oh no! I am referring to the clips on the outside of t he caliper which you see through your wheel. The clips you took off with a screw driver before you did anything else.

YOu can see the clip in this pic...

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  #20  
Old 11-23-2010, 02:52 PM
NFS NFS is offline
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My front brake pads rattle but I am to lazy to look into the cause. Since I have 4 days off for Thanksgiving, I should try to fix it.
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  #21  
Old 11-23-2010, 08:59 PM
adev adev is offline
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Location: New Zealand
 
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That bracket on the front of the calliper - the anit-rattle bracket - secures the outside brake pad and stops that from rattling. They are secure - on all four wheels - on my car so the outside brake pads don't move when you "tickle" them with your finger through the slot in the calliper. However, when you "tickle" the inside rear pads, through the slot in the calliper, they both jiggle about and make a slight metallic knocking noise which, when driving on a slightly uneven road causes the annoying rattling sound.
It's definitely the inside rear pads, I've had them off more times that I thought I would - now I'm an expert. Although looks like I'll need to invest in new rear pads after breaking one of the internal ani-rattle clips with my over enthusiastic "adjustment" - I need to lay off the Weetbix.
I might give it one last try with the cheap option first - CRC Disc Break Quiet on the back of the pads and Permatex Ultra Grease on the edges of the pad where it touches the calliper.
At this rate I'll be able to get a job with the Ferrari Formula 1 team - boy can I get a set of wheels off fast these days !!
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  #22  
Old 11-23-2010, 10:09 PM
Rjim Rjim is offline
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Weetbix? I've heard of it or seen it somewhere in my travels. Is it the US version of Wheaties, "The Breakfast of Champions?"
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  #23  
Old 11-24-2010, 08:45 PM
adev adev is offline
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Yes, that's the breakfast.

Unfortunately they don't appear to make one for "The Breakfast of BMW Disc Pad Fitters" !!
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  #24  
Old 02-02-2011, 11:59 AM
Geobimmerlover Geobimmerlover is offline
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Rattling Rear Brake Pads

I've had the rattles for a few months after fitting aftermarket pads. Yes, the inner pads' anti rattle clips were a little loose, so I've bent them and they now feel more secure in the piston. However, what stops the OUTER pads from rattling? The outer spring clip seems only to secure the caliper against the caliper carrier to stop the caliper rattling against the carrier. The outer pad does not seem to be held by anything other than fitting in the cavity in the caliper, It seems free to move radially inward towards the center of the hub until it fetches up against the boss of the rotor. What stops the outer pad from rattling? Grateful for any help.
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  #25  
Old 02-02-2011, 03:04 PM
rdl rdl is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adev View Post
Guys,
... stuff deleted ...
Do you mean the clips that are rivetted onto the back of the inside brake pads, the clip that I broke !! or are you referring to another clip.
... stuff deleted
I broke one of the three spring clips on the back of a pad during my "take it apart & check" after buying my car. I put it back to-gether with only 2 of the 3 leaves intact, fully expecting a rattle to appear. But I've never had any pad rattle.

So, broken pad clips may cause or enable pad rattle, but won't necessarily do so.

Regards
RDL
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