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BMW Diesel Owners / Enthusiasts
Do you own a diesel powered BMW? Maybe a 335d or a BMW x35d? Come and talk about what makes your car great!

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  #1  
Old 12-01-2010, 05:54 PM
Diesel Power Diesel Power is offline
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Increased Battery Discharge

My 2011 335d experienced an "increased battery discharge" warning the other day. Happened twice the same day and one time the following day. Took the vehicle to the dealer for troubleshooting and they were unable to detect any problems. Of course, the warning light triggered again that same afternoon. Looks like I need to leave the vehicle with them for 1-2 days so they can witness the warning first hand.

Anybody else encounter a similar problem?
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  #2  
Old 12-01-2010, 07:19 PM
Penguin Penguin is offline
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I've seen quite a few posted. It seems in most cases the dealer either pushes it off asbeing the owners fault for "making too many short trips," or they find there is a module somewhere that is not going to sleep.

A Google shows more info:

http://www.google.com/search?q=Incre...ient=firefox-a
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  #3  
Old 12-01-2010, 09:24 PM
jtc424 jtc424 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diesel Power View Post
My 2011 335d experienced an "increased battery discharge" warning the other day. Happened twice the same day and one time the following day. Took the vehicle to the dealer for troubleshooting and they were unable to detect any problems. Of course, the warning light triggered again that same afternoon. Looks like I need to leave the vehicle with them for 1-2 days so they can witness the warning first hand.

Anybody else encounter a similar problem?
do you have any aftermarket electronics installed?
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  #4  
Old 12-03-2010, 01:52 PM
railroader railroader is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diesel Power View Post
My 2011 335d experienced an "increased battery discharge" warning the other day. Happened twice the same day and one time the following day. Took the vehicle to the dealer for troubleshooting and they were unable to detect any problems. Of course, the warning light triggered again that same afternoon. Looks like I need to leave the vehicle with them for 1-2 days so they can witness the warning first hand.

Anybody else encounter a similar problem?
Me- two days ago. Here is the story- car had sat a little too long (full week) in pretty cold night time weather (30s.) When I finally got ready for a ride, it told me "low battery" plus showed me the battery icon. I put it on a 2 Amp trickle charger (on the underhood terminals) with all circuits off of course. After about 4 hours, disconnected charger and put the fob in. Got the "Increased Battery Discharge" warning the OP talked about. Shut back down w/o starting; called dealer's service. He told me to go out and start it- see if the warning had vanished.

It had. Went for a ride and all has been well since. I'm guessing the cold weather had something to do with it, plus just the fact of not driving the car enough. What do you guys think about the trickle charging? There is actually a BMW-branded charger (about $75) that is made for our cars. I used a motorcycle charger- did not want to put any bigger amps into the 335d. But I did get that message Increased Battery Discharge, one time only. My feeling is- nothing to worry about. The On Board Diagnostics just freaked out a little when it felt a lower charge in the Batt, and said something about it! Pretty sensitive systems, eh?

Edited to say: My Service Advisor told me to "keep the comfort access fob more than 40 ft. away" from the car. For what that's worth, I've been doing just that, and have not received the Increased Batt Discharge message since, and it's still cold and I'm not driving it much. Something to do with the car "seeing" the fob- and using a little standby power to do so. In a way, it makes sense, but YMMV, guys!

Last edited by railroader; 12-03-2010 at 02:02 PM. Reason: addt'l info
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  #5  
Old 12-03-2010, 02:14 PM
Penguin Penguin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by railroader View Post
There is actually a BMW-branded charger (about $75) that is made for our cars.
It's just a Battery Tender with a BMW logo on it. Might as well buy it under the original brand and save money.

http://www.amazon.com/Battery-Tender...1410795&sr=8-2


P.S. The Battery Tender Plus is also great for your motorcycle batteries.
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  #6  
Old 12-03-2010, 04:05 PM
bayarea2007 bayarea2007 is offline
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I had the same problem a few weeks ago on my 2009 335d. It was caused by the communication module for SOS emergency system, which was why I also got another warning message that "SOS malfunction". This module wasn't going into sleep when the car was parked. So the "Increased Battery Discharge" came on with the car parked for only couple days. Once they replaced the module, both problems were fixed.

Hope that helps. If you don't get "SOS malfunction", maybe something else isn't going into sleep.
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  #7  
Old 12-03-2010, 10:57 PM
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bimmerdiesel bimmerdiesel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by railroader View Post
Edited to say: My Service Advisor told me to "keep the comfort access fob more than 40 ft. away" from the car. For what that's worth, I've been doing just that, and have not received the Increased Batt Discharge message since, and it's still cold and I'm not driving it much. Something to do with the car "seeing" the fob- and using a little standby power to do so. In a way, it makes sense, but YMMV, guys!
This is interesting so if fob is close it keeps its sensors alive. makes sense though.
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  #8  
Old 12-04-2010, 12:07 PM
railroader railroader is offline
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I was down at the Center yesterday and went ahead and got the "branded" BMW " smart charger (used a $50 gift cert that was almost expiring.)
Only sends out 1.25 amps which is a motorcycle-grade charging rate, but it's a pretty substantial unit and of course stops its charge when the batt
gets full. We do have those handy terminals under the hood for this-- still if something is "not going to sleep" like bayarea's SOS module-- that
would need to be addressed first. Also I'm going to try to not let the car sit as much - get out there in it, eh? Not as if the "D's" are boring cars!
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  #9  
Old 12-04-2010, 01:17 PM
Penguin Penguin is offline
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Originally Posted by railroader View Post
Only sends out 1.25 amps which is a motorcycle-grade charging rate, but it's a pretty substantial unit and of course stops its charge when the batt gets full.

That is true, but the manufacturer claims it will charge as fast as other 3 amp chargers, and my past experience supports this claim, at least compared to an older style schumacher charger I'ved used.

http://www.batterytender.com/include...fo_BT_Plus.pdf

Amazon had a lightening sale on the CTEK 7002 7 amp charger for $85 (typical price is $110), and it has become my preferred charger for automotive batteries, as it is quite speedy compared to the Battery Tender models and/or the lower CTEK models.

The Battery Tender (BMW) and CTEK chargers seem to be the best ones out there at the moment. The main difference between CTEK and Battery Tender seems to be their approach to the "maintenance" charge once the battery is fully charged -- Battery Tender uses a float charge, while CTEK adds a Pulsed-charge in addition to the float approach, claiming it reduces sulfation tendencies.

My approach has been to put automotive batteries on a charger about one a month to ensure full-charging and lengthening the life of the battery. Does it really help? Well, I don't have enough data to really prove it one way or the other, but with high-quality chargers like the Battery Tender and CTEK, it can't hurt.

Last edited by Penguin; 12-04-2010 at 01:18 PM.
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  #10  
Old 12-05-2010, 03:36 PM
Diesel Power Diesel Power is offline
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Increased Battery Discharge - "Electrical Gremlin"

After 3 straight days of increased battery discharge warnings, the "problem" has not manifested again for 4 straight days without making any driving behavior changes.

My problem occurred 1-day after returning from a 1,600 mile RT journey over the Thanksgiving holiday. The vehicle was exposed to 32 degree and lower temps for 3 straight days and outdoor overnight parking without a single problem.

I'm still scratching my head on this one. Perhaps time will tell. A week of cold weather lies ahead in my area of NC.
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  #11  
Old 01-22-2011, 10:07 AM
Dedmo Dedmo is offline
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We have a 2009 335d and have been struggling with thus same problem for 18 months. The car has spent 3 of those months at the dealer. The car has died on two occasions. We have tried moving the fobs, disconnecting the iPod, replaced the satellite radio, replaced the sunroof motor, replaced the battery, not to mention other "modules" that the service department thought could be the answer. They flew in an engineer from Germany and finally assured us it was just a software glitch and a false alarm and would be resolved with a future update. A couple months went by and the warning came on again. We ignored it as instructed and the next day the car was dead. We love the car and the dealership has been very nice about loaner cars but I am ready to invoke the lemon law if necessary and get a replacement. Good luck with yours.
I'm going to post this as a separate thread and see what comments are made.
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  #12  
Old 01-22-2011, 02:45 PM
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Flyingman Flyingman is offline
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Dedmo,

It seems as though you have made best effort, and the dealer seems to be trying his best as well to resolve the problem.

But alas, the car just is not fixed.

Have you approached the dealer to ask them to exchange the vehicle or otherwise trade it in for a replacement one to resolve the problem, at least from your end? You'd think the dealers would in the end realize enough is enough and their reputation (which should be worth a lot IMO) is at risk, and make you an offer to settle this other than having to go to the Lemon Law.

I am most certain that the Auto makers have some sort of Liability Insurance for just these type of issues. At least they did not produce 1,000's of cars that explode on impact or accelerate on their own!
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Last edited by Flyingman; 01-22-2011 at 02:47 PM.
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  #13  
Old 01-23-2011, 11:55 AM
Diesel Power Diesel Power is offline
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Update

In summary, the third repair attempt resulted in an "extended stay" (1-month). After replacing 2-modules (Junction Box & DDE), my vehicle was still drawing 3.5 amps after entering sleep mode. After further diagnostics and onsite assistance by the RTE (Regional Technical Expert) from BMW NA, the culprit of my problem turned out to be the FZD module (Function Center, Roof), specifically the Interior Motion Sensor (Alarm). After replacing the motion sensor the amperage draw went away.

I just got my vehicle back on Friday evening. Time will tell if it's fixed. The SA and ST (Heather & Tony) at Leith BMW in Raleigh demonstrated a sincere concern and genuine commitment to repair my vehicle. Tony reviewed the entire diagnostic process with me from start to finish when I picked up my vehicle. He was very knowledgable and professional. Just the type ST a person wants and expects.
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  #14  
Old 01-24-2011, 06:27 AM
F32Fleet F32Fleet is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diesel Power View Post
In summary, the third repair attempt resulted in an "extended stay" (1-month). After replacing 2-modules (Junction Box & DDE), my vehicle was still drawing 3.5 amps after entering sleep mode. After further diagnostics and onsite assistance by the RTE (Regional Technical Expert) from BMW NA, the culprit of my problem turned out to be the FZD module (Function Center, Roof), specifically the Interior Motion Sensor (Alarm). After replacing the motion sensor the amperage draw went away.

I just got my vehicle back on Friday evening. Time will tell if it's fixed. The SA and ST (Heather & Tony) at Leith BMW in Raleigh demonstrated a sincere concern and genuine commitment to repair my vehicle. Tony reviewed the entire diagnostic process with me from start to finish when I picked up my vehicle. He was very knowledgable and professional. Just the type ST a person wants and expects.

Good news. I bet the BMW engineers are glad to be rid of that problem.
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  #15  
Old 01-24-2011, 09:15 AM
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mecodoug mecodoug is offline
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Did they give you a new battery? I bet the old one took a beating.
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  #16  
Old 01-24-2011, 09:56 AM
Snipe656 Snipe656 is offline
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I guess the days of just putting a volt meter on a battery and pulling fuses to systems to see which system has the drain, are no longer with us with how complex cars have gotten.
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  #17  
Old 01-24-2011, 11:53 AM
Penguin Penguin is offline
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Yup.

I was quite surprised when I got my 2004 Z4 and saw how many fuses there are, and they seem to be increasing with every model change. If I recall, there were 60 fuses in the main passenger compartment fuse box alone. Probably even more on the E70.
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  #18  
Old 01-24-2011, 11:58 AM
Snipe656 Snipe656 is offline
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Then my guess might be wrong and that method still would work? I wonder how much of these long repair diagnostics boil down to too much reliance on what the computer says over figuring things out.
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Old 01-24-2011, 12:53 PM
Penguin Penguin is offline
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Then my guess might be wrong and that method still would work?
Theoretically, yes. But you have to wait for the vehicle to "go to sleep" before doing it, e.g., at best you'd have to close the door and sit there for 16-70 minutes with the interior alarm disabled before taking the fuses out and replacing them one-by-one. And then the act of taking-out the fuse might wake the vehicle up and re-start the "waiting for sleep" period.

All this fancy electronics is a step backwards in my opinion. I mean seriously, why should it take 16-70 minutes for a vehicle to shut everything down? Why not just shut everything down in a minute, unless someone purposely does something like switch on "accessory" mode, as in older vehicles?

SI B 61 08 00
General Electrical Systems

November 2007
Technical Service

This Service Information bulletins supersedes S.I. B61 08 00 dated June 2007.
[NEW] designates changes to this revision
SUBJECT
Closed-Circuit Current Measurement

MODEL
All

SITUATION
Increased closed-circuit currents may occur permanently or intermittently, and cause the battery to discharge prematurely. The increase in closed circuit current may be caused by a faulty control unit, or by the installation of a non-approved accessory.

In a situation where a vehicle has broken down due to a discharged battery, for diagnostic purposes it is important not to disconnect the battery. This is because a control unit will be reset if the battery is disconnected. Following a reset, the faulty control unit may start functioning correctly again, making accurate diagnosis impossible.
To correctly measure closed-circuit current, the 50-amp clip-on probe can be used in conjunction with the DISPlus to properly diagnosis closed circuit current problems over an extended period of time. Refer to Service Information B04 07 01 for information about the 50-amp clip-on probe use with the DISPlus. A new 50-amp clip-on probe (refer to SI B04 16 04) can be used with the GT1 in conjunction with the MIB (Measurement Interface Box). Refer to SI B08 02 04 for information about the MIB.
PROCEDURE
1. NEW It is very important that any "Power management" faults stored are diagnosed and corrected and the "Energy Diagnosis" test plan carried out before the following procedure is performed.

2. Check and test the battery using the BMW Battery Tester. Refer to SI B 04 25 02 for information about the BMW Battery. If necessary, recharge or replace the battery.

3. If the battery is installed in the trunk, open the trunk and turn the lock to the locked position using a screwdriver or similar (simulates the trunk lid being closed). The hood must be closed. If the battery is installed in the engine compartment, open the hood and pull the front lid contact switch fully up and lock in this position (workshop position, simulates the front lid being closed). The trunk must be closed.

4. With the exception of the trunk / hood above, all other doors / lids must be closed.

5. In order to simulate normal closed-circuit conditions:

- Turn ignition on and activate all electrical consumers, including any accessories. Turn ignition off. In some cases a drive cycle may need to be carried out in order to duplicate a closed circuit current problem.

- Open and close the driver's door (simulates somebody getting out).

- Lock the car, arming DWA if this is installed.

6. In general, closed-circuit current consistently over 50 mA must be investigated. Depending on the vehicle's equipment, closed-circuit current by vehicle model is approximately as follows:

E31 50 milliamps after 16 minutes E32 50 milliamps after 16 minutes E34 40 milliamps after 16 minutes E36, Z3 30 milliamps after 16 minutes E38 50 milliamps after 16 minutes E39 40 milliamps after 16 minutes E46 40 milliamps after 16 minutes E60, E61, E63, E64 40 milliamps after 60-70 minutes E65, E66 40 milliamps after 60-70 minutes E53 40 milliamps after 16 minutes E70 40 milliamps after 60-70 minutes with TCU (30 minutes without TCU) E83 40 milliamps after 16 minutes NEW E90, E91, E92 40 milliamps after 60-70 minutes with TCU (30 minutes without TCU) E85 40 milliamps after 16 minutes E52 50 milliamps after 16 minutes
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  #20  
Old 01-24-2011, 01:00 PM
Snipe656 Snipe656 is offline
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This is actually the first car I have had that you could notice the shutting down and turning on of systems. I am sure others do it but this one is really noticeable to me.
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  #21  
Old 01-24-2011, 01:46 PM
TheDrivingG TheDrivingG is offline
Is that a diesel?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diesel Power View Post
the culprit of my problem turned out to be the FZD module (Function Center, Roof), specifically the Interior Motion Sensor (Alarm). After replacing the motion sensor the amperage draw went away.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Penguin View Post

All this fancy electronics is a step backwards in my opinion. I mean seriously, why should it take 16-70 minutes for a vehicle to shut everything down? Why not just shut everything down in a minute, unless someone purposely does something like switch on "accessory" mode, as in older vehicles?
This is why I don't like having too many electronic systems in our car, something is bound to fail. Even if you have 99.999% system reliability, with so many components, you are bound to hit that 0.001% chance. Unfortunately all car manufactures are going in that direction.

I'd rather have an obsolete car that is less likely to have problems than one with "fancy" gadgets (coming from a guy who designs electronic chips ). I don't even like the power seats and moonroof; I rarely change the setting and it's one more thing that can break down. I'm not so lazy that I can't manually change a seat position and if it breaks down, it just going to be a $$$ bill . In fact, I don't have any options added except the sports package. I do care about the electronic stability control, but that is because it is a safety feature (yes, you can argue about safety features failing but I know it's a nice safety net to have). The engine on this thing will last forever but I'm not so sure about the rest of the car. As for the argument about perpetually leasing so that you don't have to worry about it after 3 years, the cars will just keep on getting more and more complicated systems.

Mild rant over.....
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  #22  
Old 01-24-2011, 01:50 PM
Snipe656 Snipe656 is offline
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Funnyn you mentioned power seats and roof, both are things I too would rather not have and more because of fear for one day when they might break. One of my old Porsches had sunroof issues that I spent thousands of dollars trying to get fixed. It never could get 100% fixed and what annoyed me was I never even used the sunroof so it was an option I was spending a lot of money to fix that I'd preferred never been on the car. I actually at one time considered getting the thing welded up. That experience years later caused me to special order an Audi S4 without a sunroof.
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  #23  
Old 01-24-2011, 02:26 PM
anE934fun anE934fun is offline
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Originally Posted by Snipe656 View Post
I guess the days of just putting a volt meter on a battery and pulling fuses to systems to see which system has the drain, are no longer with us with how complex cars have gotten.
These days, you are not buying a 'car'. You are buying a bunch of computers with wheels, brakes, suspension and engine to provide electricity for the computers. What is a car?
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  #24  
Old 01-24-2011, 02:39 PM
Snipe656 Snipe656 is offline
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I have a friend who insists that the next time he needs to buy a truck that he is going to buy some old 70ish year model truck and redo most everything on it so he has a "new" vehicle that is not over complicated with worthless(to him) crap. I guess there is something to be said for his thought process.
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  #25  
Old 01-24-2011, 02:45 PM
Penguin Penguin is offline
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Originally Posted by anE934fun View Post
These days, you are not buying a 'car'. You are buying a bunch of computers with wheels, brakes, suspension and engine to provide electricity for the computers. What is a car?
Emissions, safety, and fuel economy were the drivers to bring the first computers into the automobile. And once they got started, it seems the product planners couldn't stop!

But I recall MB a few years ago, sometime between 2000-2005 when their reliability was really lousy, made a deliberate move to take-away some limited utility "features" that were overly-complicating the vehicle and hurting reliability scores. I can't seem to find a reference, but recalled reading a news article to that effect.
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