E60 Loaner-Comparisons

My "d" developed a "charging malfunction' the other day and the dealer is telling me the alternator is dead and it will take 5-10 business days to get one in from Germany.So now I have an E60 (2010 528 X-drive) loaner and,it appears,will have it for at least a week.Being *very* intrigued by the prospect of an F10 diesel arriving here next year I'll be seeing this time as one big test drive.

Does anyone have first hand knowledge...or can make an educated guess...as to how much I can learn about the new F10's handling characteristics by driving this E60? It's pretty basic and any F10 I might order will be as well...at least suspension-wise (not likely to order DHP,etc).I know that I'll have to factor in my experience regarding the diesel.

Any and all thoughts are welcome.

Originally Posted by listerone

My "d" developed a "charging malfunction' the other day and the dealer is telling me the alternator is dead and it will take 5-10 business days to get one in from Germany.So now I have an E60 (2010 528 X-drive) loaner and,it appears,will have it for at least a week.Being *very* intrigued by the prospect of an F10 diesel arriving here next year I'll be seeing this time as one big test drive.

Does anyone have first hand knowledge...or can make an educated guess...as to how much I can learn about the new F10's handling characteristics by driving this E60? It's pretty basic and any F10 I might order will be as well...at least suspension-wise (not likely to order DHP,etc).I know that I'll have to factor in my experience regarding the diesel.

Any and all thoughts are welcome.

Very little.

I'm sure the E60 is a nice ride but the F10 is a quite different platform, from the larger size, different suspension, new 8 spd transmission, many tech upgrades.

The more posts that come in here seems like 95% like the F10 a lot, and a very vocal and dogmatically repetitive 5% think the F10 goes too far in the smoother ride direction.

It is like comparing apples and oranges. They are two toatally different cars and suspesnion systems and steering systems.

Originally Posted by pharding

It is like comparing apples and oranges. They are two toatally different cars and suspesnion systems and steering systems.

Exactly. They really couldn't be more different.


Different steering gear, multi-link vs. strut front suspension, additional link in rear suspension, different wheelbase, different track. There's not much more to change.

About the only things you can pick up are these. The E60 has more interior space than the 3, and the F10 has more than the E60, so, you can know that the F10 is at least as spacious. The E60 has a much better ride than the 3, and the F10's ride is at least as good, some say a bit better. The 3 handles better than the E60, and, it is said, the E60 handles better than the F10. Since you don't seem to plan on getting all of the suspension improvements available on the F10, and the E60 is plain Jane, IMO, you should consider the F10 to be even less connected to the road than you are now experiencing with the E60. From my test drives of the F10, compared to my E60, the F10 seemed even more luxurious.

Just one persons opinion.

Does the base E60 handle better than a base F10? Aside from the disconnected from the road feeling that many report, I have not seen performance comparisons that would support that hypothesis. BMW certainly says that the F10 handles better... I owned an E60 for three years but I did not drive it nearly as hard as I have driven the F10, so I cannot give an opinion on this matter. Perhaps other posters can add to the discourse; I'll be watching this thread with interest.

I fine the defense of the E60 to be comical. The car was seriously ugly and insufficiently refined. Guys who had only ever driven BMWs like me left the fold to avoid buying an E60. The F10 is faster in every way than the E60. Plus with the a flick of a switch you can turn it from a top notch sports sedan, into a 7 series when you are driving on those pot hole laden streets downtown. The IAS is the best steering I have ever experienced in a BMW - it's a shame its not standard.

I remember we had this debate every time a better and very innovative BMW was launched. The E39 owners blasted the E60, the E36 owners blasted the E46. The E65 owners got railed by the E38 lovers.

The reality is that there is a vocal segment here who don't like innovation and improvement. But 90% of us, and especially those who actually buy one, realize the F10 is the best non-M BMW ever made.

Originally Posted by Rafa

Does the base E60 handle better than a base F10? Aside from the disconnected from the road feeling that many report, I have not seen performance comparisons that would support that hypothesis. BMW certainly says that the F10 handles better... I owned an E60 for three years but I did not drive it nearly as hard as I have driven the F10, so I cannot give an opinion on this matter. Perhaps other posters can add to the discourse; I'll be watching this thread with interest.

After having driven both, IMO, the base F10 does not handle as well as the base E60. It might be mostly the fact that the base E60 does not have runflats, while the base F10 does.

Originally Posted by Kamdog

After having driven both, IMO, the base F10 does not handle as well as the base E60. It might be mostly the fact that the base E60 does not have runflats, while the base F10 does.

Tires can make a substantial difference. The first thing I will do when I get my 550i next August is to replace the stock runflats with Michelin Pilot Super Sports.

Originally Posted by Kamdog

After having driven both, IMO, the base F10 does not handle as well as the base E60. It might be mostly the fact that the base E60 does not have runflats, while the base F10 does.

I haven't driven a base F10's or a base E60's. But, I have owned both an E60 535xi and now an F10 535xi (and owned an E28, E34 and E39 5 series before those). After driving the new one almost 1,300 miles, 600 +/- of which have been on US roadways (the other were on German roadways during my ED experience), I am now more comfortable comparing the cars. (This is especially true as I had the 2008 model until the day before I took redelivery of the new model.) My bottom line is that the F10 version feels like the older, bigger, more "established" brother of the E39 model (the well respected predecessor to the E60 model). It's a more mature, refined and elegant vehicle than the E39 and the E60, but I admit that there is less "piss and vinegar" than the E60 in the way it handles. It is more of a luxury sports sedan than a simple sports sedan. For most (including me), I suspect that the changes will be very well received. But, I also suspect that some drivers will be less interested in the new luxury touches and the visual styling improvements (inside and out) of the F10.

IMHO, the E39 was a 5 series that buyers loved at first sight and had their love confirmed upon first drive. The E60 was a 5 series that buyers learned to love over time, despite its aesthetic weaknesses. The F10 may be a 5 series that buyers fall in LUST with because of its aesthetic strengths and learn to love quickly after adjusting to its increased size and weight. Each generation of the 5 series has been more refined than the one it replaced. With the exception of the E60 (again, IMHO), each generation of the 5 series was better looking than the one it replaced. The issue with the F10 is that it is the 2nd. successive 5 series generation change (the first being the change from E39 to E60) where the successor model was not more fun to drive than the one it replaced. E39 owners rebelled against the E60's introduction over this issue when the E60 was first introduced. That model was also poorly received by most then-current 5 series owners because it was perceived to be a step backward in terms of its visual appeal and cockpit/interior design. Now, some E60 owners may rebel against the F10 because it takes a step back from the E60 as a "fun to drive" car. But, after driving the new F10 (admittedly with the sports, sports transmission and dynamic handling packages), I find that the F10 remains fun to drive, but the "fun" is more mature and less innocent. The difference with the F10 is that the driver has to purchase options (sports, sports transmission and dynamic handling) to have a similar level of fun and may also have to push some buttons to get the F10 to show its "fun" character. I am confident that virtually all current 5 series owners will find that the F10, when "optioned out," is very responsive, athletic and handles exceptionally well. After 1,300 miles, I can tell you that I love my F10.

Originally Posted by BATMAN75

I fine the defense of the E60 to be comical. The car was seriously ugly and insufficiently refined.

Holy HPFPs Batman! I will remember my E60 as a fine driving and looking BMW. My only regret was not getting the Sport package with the larger wheels which gave the car a much better look.


the F10 is the best non-M BMW ever made.

I'm headed in this direction, love the improvements brought by the F10 and with the Sport package this time am loving the look and the drive!

Originally Posted by laser

Holy HPFPs Batman! I will remember my E60 as a fine driving and looking BMW. !

+1

Originally Posted by laser

Holy HPFPs Batman! I will remember my E60 as a fine driving and looking BMW. My only regret was not getting the Sport package with the larger wheels which gave the car a much better look.


the F10 is the best non-M BMW ever made.

I'm headed in this direction, love the improvements brought by the F10 and with the Sport package this time am loving the look and the drive!

+1. My thoughts exactly.