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X3 F25 (2011 - current)
The latest X3 brings some added style and some new features to the BMW SUV family. Talk about the new F25 now!

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  #26  
Old 01-13-2011, 01:27 PM
kck7 kck7 is offline
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Exactly. I did a fair bit of homework and considered many SUVs in a wide price range (some only on paper) before figuring that the BMW (in my case an X5) brought the best value to MY table, and that's before even considering the personal satisfaction of owning a premium marque.

When much of the auto press carps about BMW being expensive at the same time they praise its driving attributes, I have to wonder if they have their heads screwed on straight. I mean, it returns to its owner one of the best driving experiences around (I say "one of the best" only to avoid getting into an argument), the best resale precentage (demonstrated by kbb recently), cachet of a premium brand, free maintenance service during warranty. Throw in solid and recognized German engineering and innovation, high marks for safety, and various intangibles depending on the individual, and IMO it's not that expensive any more.

As someone once pointed out, the word 'expensive' describes nothing. What these people mean to say is 'overpriced', but can't because the (mostly) efficient market has a way of destroying truly overpriced products and services, which means BMW would have folded (or changed) a while ago if it were truly overpriced.
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  #27  
Old 01-24-2011, 11:03 PM
fixr fixr is offline
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Hey guys and gals,

Was over at the dealership the other day and got a chance to sit in and really inspect both new models. I was surprised at the styling in person, quite frankly. After 7 years and all the competition out there like the Audi Q5, etc. and this is the best they can do? Also, I was pretty underwhelmed by the interior. Didn't seem as upscale as you would think for a pretty pricey vehicle. The open cup-holders were really a surprise. I was expecting a feel more like the new 5 and 7 interiors, but it is not like that at all. My dealer, who's a friend of mine, was pretty disappointed as well.

I was at Starbucks shortly thereafter and I saw an Audi Q5. I bleed BMW, but the Audi was in another league. YMMV
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  #28  
Old 01-24-2011, 11:47 PM
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MarcA78 MarcA78 is offline
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To each his own I suppose. I think the new X3 is stunning. And its shaping up to be a class leader in performance. The Q5...well, it sure is cute. But I'd never own one.
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  #29  
Old 01-25-2011, 02:59 AM
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Evlengr Evlengr is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kck7 View Post
Exactly. I did a fair bit of homework and considered many SUVs in a wide price range (some only on paper) before figuring that the BMW (in my case an X5) brought the best value to MY table, and that's before even considering the personal satisfaction of owning a premium marque.

When much of the auto press carps about BMW being expensive at the same time they praise its driving attributes, I have to wonder if they have their heads screwed on straight. I mean, it returns to its owner one of the best driving experiences around (I say "one of the best" only to avoid getting into an argument), the best resale precentage (demonstrated by kbb recently), cachet of a premium brand, free maintenance service during warranty. Throw in solid and recognized German engineering and innovation, high marks for safety, and various intangibles depending on the individual, and IMO it's not that expensive any more.

As someone once pointed out, the word 'expensive' describes nothing. What these people mean to say is 'overpriced', but can't because the (mostly) efficient market has a way of destroying truly overpriced products and services, which means BMW would have folded (or changed) a while ago if it were truly overpriced.
One mistake....resale value is crap. Most I was offered for my 2008 when it had $20k miles that is in near mint condition with leather xenon and other xtras was $24k. That is not what I call a good return. But cars aren't made for resale return.
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  #30  
Old 01-26-2011, 02:37 PM
fixr fixr is offline
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Originally Posted by MarcA78 View Post
To each his own I suppose. I think the new X3 is stunning. And its shaping up to be a class leader in performance. The Q5...well, it sure is cute. But I'd never own one.
Well put MarcA. Also, when some of the different wheels get on it (M sport package) and I can see some of the different interior colors, I may feel a little different. I have a new Alpine white 35d with sport and all, and there are those who don't think much of the X5's. But not me, of course. So your point is well taken.

By the way, the Q5 I saw was like a graphite grey/black, tinted windows and the S wheels and no one would call it "cute". Audi is doing some really good things and I'm envious sometimes.

Rob
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  #31  
Old 01-27-2011, 09:34 AM
UncleJ UncleJ is offline
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Hey, that's why they have horse races and different kinds of cars. No one thing pleases every one. There are a number of very excellent cars out there including BMW's. Are BMW's the end all be all, not in my mind, but they are certainly worthy of consderation. I happen to like the Audi, the EX, the XC60, and yes, even the domestics quite a bit. When I replace my X3 I am going to try them all, even the Hyundai using my experience with the X3 as a benchmark. Maybe this time I will get it right.

Last edited by UncleJ; 01-27-2011 at 09:35 AM.
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  #32  
Old 01-27-2011, 01:21 PM
JABinWDC JABinWDC is offline
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Originally Posted by fixr View Post
Well put MarcA. Also, when some of the different wheels get on it (M sport package) and I can see some of the different interior colors, I may feel a little different. I have a new Alpine white 35d with sport and all, and there are those who don't think much of the X5's. But not me, of course. So your point is well taken.

By the way, the Q5 I saw was like a graphite grey/black, tinted windows and the S wheels and no one would call it "cute". Audi is doing some really good things and I'm envious sometimes.

Rob
I just went through this exercise and bought a 3.2L Q5 last month to replace my leased '08X3.

Before buying, I read everything I could find and the Q5 consistently come out on top though no doubt the new X3 will be a significant competitor so I look forward to the reviews and comparison tests. I had read the posts on this board regarding the new X3, read the early reviews, and then I finally saw the 2011 X3. I'm a BMW enthusiast - I had a '98 528i and '01 X5 - but it didn't raise my interest at all. Not even enough to drive one. To me the exterior of the 2011 X3 looks too much like the old one and having had the X5 previously I was tired of the boxy shape - the Q5 looks more modern, dynamic, and athletic to me. Plus I think the new X3 will blend in with all the old X3's and X5's and I'd rather have something distinctive in the $45-50k range. Regarding the Q5 being "cute" - check out a 3.2L with S-Line package. Definitely not cute. In a few short weeks I can already tell it is a terrific replacement for my '08 X3: the 3.2L engine, transmission and driving dynamics really suit me.

I really don't think you can go wrong with either the X3 or Q5 - it's all a matter of personal choice.

Good luck with your search!
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  #33  
Old 01-28-2011, 10:04 AM
Tauvil Tauvil is offline
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I'm currently driving my second X3 so I assumed I was ready for something new. But when I went through the shop around process, the most glaring difference between the new X3 and the Q5 in my opinion is the ability to build the X3 exactly to your liking. After I did that I went to Audi's website to build an "equivalent" Q5 and by the time I was done, the Q5 cost a few grand more and was trailing in each of my priority categories (performance, audio and tech, performance ... did I mention performance?). I do believe the Q5's exterior is better looking, especially with S-Line, but that's where the praise stops. Until Audi comes up with an engine that's even in the same ballpark with the N55 (X35i), if your top priority is performance, there's really no decision to be made.

See you at 60 in 5.5!
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  #34  
Old 01-28-2011, 10:17 AM
UncleJ UncleJ is offline
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I have seen that "5.5" speed mentioned a couple of times, but have not seen any objective tests on the new X3 measuring it. In fact, have seen no real tests at all covering the performance of either new X3's. Most of the tests I have seen were of pre production cars and used the mfgs specs, and driving impressions. It will be interesting to see how the production cars shake out in comparison to the competition.

Last edited by UncleJ; 01-28-2011 at 10:33 AM.
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  #35  
Old 01-28-2011, 10:42 AM
kck7 kck7 is offline
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If I were in the market for a mid-small ute I would look at either the X3 or, a class below, the CRV-RAV4-Sorento triumvirate. Perhaps the Tiguan but it is generally seen as overpriced.

Speaking of Tiguan, the Audi Q5 is, AFAIK, the upscale version of this ute. From day one, I could never get into the whole 'upscaling' thing, which I believe was truly kicked off by Lexus with its 250 version of the Camry, way back when. Of course, GM and Ford/L-M did this too and much before Lexus, but it was Lexus that was first successful at creating a truly distinct brand identity for what was basically the same car. Today, this highly successful trick is practiced by nearly every marque (but see below).

If I'm buying a car that has a downscale 'twin', I'd probably want to save the $$ and get the downscale twin to begin with. IMO this is what distinguishes MB and BMW from Audi in the upper crust German brands, that the former's vehicles are just that, MBs and BMWs. (Let's try to forget about that abortion, the Chrysler 'merger', for now).

And let's not forget Porsche... yes they do enough to their Cayenne to imbue it with its own identity, but it still shares a lot of DNA with the Touareg. I really like the Cayenne and may even own one one day (how's that for arguing against myself?) but this aspect does give me pause.

BTW I did drive a new X3 back in December and found the performance delicious. But interior room (lack thereof, specifically driver's right knee) turned me toward the X5 instead. I don't think the new X3 is easily confused with the old one. In fact the X5 models are closer together (E70 and E53). And if they got the look right (IMO they did with the E53, less so with the original X3), there's nothing wrong with having evolutionary change. Radical change for its own sake is not good enough for me.
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  #36  
Old 01-28-2011, 10:56 AM
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madurodave madurodave is offline
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Personally, I am glad BMW kept the new X3 look similar to the old. Why would they completely change it? It is supposed to be "evolution", not a new animal!

I ride a 2007 Harley Road King that looks like my 1957 FLH that I got from my dad. I am glad they look similar. You can tell where the new one came from!

I would say, if one does not care for the new looks, time to try something new. If you like the "old" X3, you will probably like the new X3. One is most likely in my future in a few years, after my 2007 finally dies or begins to have major issues.
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  #37  
Old 01-28-2011, 11:11 AM
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I drove the new X3 just before Christmas, while I was shopping for the X5 I bought a couple of days later. I thought it was a great ride (but have never driven the first-gen X3). I would have bought this except for two things: it wasn't available for sale yet and I needed a new SUV now, and the center console is so wide relative to the rest of the space my knees felt forced together. I also wonder about its value proposition as it looked like it would be almost $50K with the same options I bought my X5 with. After figuring the incentives and discounts on the X5, the OTD on the two would have been alarmingly close.

But in the fun to drive department it was a blast.
Yeah, some of the X5 incentives were nice. Especially when coupled with the diesel discounts.
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  #38  
Old 02-18-2011, 09:47 PM
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Originally Posted by kck7 View Post
If I were in the market for a mid-small ute I would look at either the X3 or, a class below, the CRV-RAV4-Sorento triumvirate. Perhaps the Tiguan but it is generally seen as overpriced.

Speaking of Tiguan, the Audi Q5 is, AFAIK, the upscale version of this ute. From day one, I could never get into the whole 'upscaling' thing, which I believe was truly kicked off by Lexus with its 250 version of the Camry ...
Q5 is not an upscale version of Tiguan-it is built on a diferent platform, has different suspension, different AWD system, and different transmission as well.

We have Q5 and I test-drove tiguan 2 days ago -totally different ride, Tiguan does not drive close to Q5. I was disappointed, so it dropped off my shopping list...
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  #39  
Old 02-19-2011, 08:58 AM
UncleJ UncleJ is offline
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The new Porsche Cajun will also be built on this platform. I suspect that Porsche will make it very interesting especially if they stuff that nice Panamera V6 in it! Since now Porsche, VW, and Audi are all pretty much one corporate entity the cross pollination will most likely be even greater than in the past. Tiguan/Q5/Cajun & T-egg/Q7/Cayenne similar but different.
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  #40  
Old 02-19-2011, 01:06 PM
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I have seen that "5.5" speed mentioned a couple of times, but have not seen any objective tests on the new X3 measuring it. In fact, have seen no real tests at all covering the performance of either new X3's. Most of the tests I have seen were of pre production cars and used the mfgs specs, and driving impressions. It will be interesting to see how the production cars shake out in comparison to the competition.
Quote:
With eight automatically shifted gears—a manual is no longer available—and 300 hp and 300 lb-ft of torque on hand from its N55 six-cylinder, the X3 xDrive35i delivers strong acceleration. Our test results matched BMW’s 5.5-second 0-to-60-mph estimate, and power delivery is velvety smooth across the rev range, with only slight dips during otherwise unobtrusive gearswaps.

From Car & Driver
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  #41  
Old 02-20-2011, 11:42 AM
UncleJ UncleJ is offline
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Good, finally an objective test. Now we will see what the other buff books come up with. Thanks.
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  #42  
Old 02-21-2011, 09:43 PM
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Evlengr Evlengr is offline
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Curious to hear what "Roundel" has to say. Never trusted Cons Reports as they listed the Pinto as a good car and they are usually six months behind in their reviews.
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  #43  
Old 02-21-2011, 11:00 PM
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Curious to hear what "Roundel" has to say. Never trusted Cons Reports as they listed the Pinto as a good car and they are usually six months behind in their reviews.
Consumer Reports is rubbish with car reviews.
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  #44  
Old 02-22-2011, 07:32 AM
UncleJ UncleJ is offline
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Sometimes they are, but every now and then they find an acorn. The recent non recommendation of the GX which was a huge embarrasment to Lexus was a case in point. No one else picked up on that (or if they did -- didn't want to loose the ad revenue). I would like to see a good objective comparo with times, distances, figures, impressions of a new actual production X3 with technical staff members doing the testing from some mag. Not the impressions of some hack with stringback driving gloves who is at a manufacturers event enjoying all the free wurst and beer, driving "prepared" cars. A real test will come sooner rather than later I am sure.

Last edited by UncleJ; 02-22-2011 at 07:42 AM.
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  #45  
Old 02-22-2011, 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by UncleJ View Post
The new Porsche Cajun will also be built on this platform. I suspect that Porsche will make it very interesting especially if they stuff that nice Panamera V6 in it! Since now Porsche, VW, and Audi are all pretty much one corporate entity the cross pollination will most likely be even greater than in the past. Tiguan/Q5/Cajun & T-egg/Q7/Cayenne similar but different.
This pics is few years old, but you will get idea who is who
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  #46  
Old 02-22-2011, 10:41 AM
UncleJ UncleJ is offline
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Nice graphic, haven't seen it before. There have been some changes of course, SAAB and Volvo have been sold as have a number of others. The Porsche group has become intertwined with VW to a greater extent too. I don't know if Porsche bought them or VW bought Porsche!
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  #47  
Old 02-22-2011, 10:57 AM
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Nice graphic, haven't seen it before. There have been some changes of course, SAAB and Volvo have been sold as have a number of others. The Porsche group has become intertwined with VW to a greater extent too. I don't know if Porsche bought them or VW bought Porsche!
VW AG owns 50% of Porsche.
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  #48  
Old 02-22-2011, 01:47 PM
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Nice graphic, haven't seen it before.
I posted this pic before on E90 and ED forums.
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  #49  
Old 02-22-2011, 08:01 PM
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Evlengr Evlengr is offline
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At this point the only reviews I take are the ones from zine sites and then still with a grain of salt.

The only thing people have vested here is ego and I will take that over a magazine that needs Ad revenue.

Even Vehix, edmunds, etc... are all biased.
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  #50  
Old 02-23-2011, 08:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Evlengr View Post
At this point the only reviews I take are the ones from zine sites and then still with a grain of salt.

The only thing people have vested here is ego and I will take that over a magazine that needs Ad revenue.

Even Vehix, edmunds, etc... are all biased.
I mostly agree. I've actually worked as a reviewer before. It's hard to stay objective when it's a car or brand that you really just don't like. Add to that the pressure from publishers to cut sponsors some slack and you've got some real problems.
There are a few magazines that I really like though. Automobile and Top Gear are both well written and pretty balanced. I also like www.thetruthaboutcars.com
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