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  #1  
Old 01-20-2004, 04:04 AM
Hedess Hedess is offline
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Unhappy Where is the stock amp? Its not there?

Hi,

I have a 2001 E46 325i.

I am planning to upgrade my stock stereo system by replacing the factory speakers and amp. I have read other posts on the location of the stock amp on the LHS of the trunk behind the lining.

After removing the lining I did see the 6 stack CD changer but to my dissapointment could not see the amp!! Is there an amp at all or are the speakers directly fed from the Head Unit?

Could someone help me to locate the position of the amp in my car? All the posts I have read have not helped me so far in locating it.

The following post has been invaluable info. but I still can't find the amp.
http://e46fanatics.com/faq/stereosaga.html

The attached pictures show:

The build date if its helps with the location of the amp.
The LHS of the trunk without the lining and the CD stacker
Shows the wires to the CD stacker? Is this the stereo wiring harness?

Planning to upgrade to:

New Rockford Fosgate Punch 301X Amplifier - 40 watts RMS x 4 at 4 ohms
Frontrs: Focal 103 V2
Rear: Focal 130 CV

Thanks

Hedess
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Last edited by Hedess; 01-20-2004 at 04:12 AM. Reason: Needed to update som comments
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  #2  
Old 01-20-2004, 04:56 AM
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Dr. Phil Dr. Phil is offline
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The amp should be back there somewhere Mine was just eradicated from the LHR

As a side comment, to run the Focals, you may want to consider something with a little more/cleaner power then the RFG amp. Their newer stuff is rated beyond its normal ability IIRC.
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  #3  
Old 01-20-2004, 03:51 PM
Hedess Hedess is offline
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Thanks for the info. Dr. Phil.

I'll keep looking for the amp . The pictures show what the LHR in the car looks like and I have had a good look around and can't see it anywhere?

If anyone else has any ideas of where it may be please let me know.

Also (new to the forum acronyms) IIRC?

What amp would you recomend with the focals.

What setup did you use in your car to improve your sound?

Thanks again

Hedess
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  #4  
Old 01-20-2004, 04:25 PM
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Kaz Kaz is offline
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How many speakers does your factory system have? HW can correct me if I'm wrong but I believe the standard 6-speaker system does not have an outboard amp. US cars come standard with what's called 'HiFi Sound' (10 speakers) that is optional in many markets.
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  #5  
Old 01-20-2004, 05:35 PM
Hedess Hedess is offline
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Hi Kaz,

My car only has 6 speakers. 2 tweeters, 2 fronts and 2 rear.

If it doesn't have an amp. do you know how to get access to the radio wiring harness as shown in other posts?

I have looked at the following web sites as reference so far.

http://bimmer.roadfly.org/bmw/forums...786337&page=10
http://e46fanatics.com/faq/stereosaga.html

Thanks

Hedess
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  #6  
Old 01-20-2004, 06:08 PM
CWolfey CWolfey is offline
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Yep that is correct I believe 6 speaker system has no amp just Radio power coming from the head unit,
If you are not changing the head unit you will have to get wires behind the radio.
If you remove the trim above the radio you should see 2 screws holding it in.

This pic will help you with colors.
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Last edited by CWolfey; 01-20-2004 at 06:18 PM.
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  #7  
Old 01-20-2004, 06:10 PM
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In the US it's supposed to be there.. but since you are down under... I wonder if it's behind the right hand side trunk trim. A place to check for wiring is in the black bundles in your pic.


Another good reference by 31st330i:

http://www.mindspring.com/~pmbenn/hk_retrofit.htm
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  #8  
Old 01-20-2004, 07:15 PM
Hedess Hedess is offline
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CWolfey & ObD,

Thanks for the info.

Does this mean that if I want to wire in an Amp that is in the trunk I will have to somehow get the wires from the back of the radio into the trunk? This would be a real hassle if that is what is required.

Is there any way of doing it easily that you guys know of?

I have checked the RHS of the trunk as well. No sign of the amp. just the battery and other knick knacks. I will check the wiring you see in the pic on the weekend. All I could see was wires going to the rear lights and the CD changer in this bundle.

Thanks

Hedess
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  #9  
Old 01-21-2004, 04:37 AM
CWolfey CWolfey is offline
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Since you are adding a 4 channel amp you would need the signal from the fronts and the rears, In that system if there is no amp the wires would run from the radio right into the doors, not giving you an easy spot to just grab all of them. Its really not a pain to run wires into the trunk, you just have to take your time. Luckily the battery is in the trunk.

That is a 4 door right, and are all the speakers in the door? Or the rear deck?
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  #10  
Old 01-21-2004, 02:33 PM
Hedess Hedess is offline
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Hi,

Yep its a 4 door.

The tweeter front is in the door frame behind the side mirror and the front speaker is in the door. The rears are on the rear deck and there are no speakers in the rear doors.
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  #11  
Old 01-21-2004, 09:00 PM
31st330i 31st330i is offline
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look at these pics:
http://www.bmw325i.net/inst_mp3cd.shtml
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  #12  
Old 01-22-2004, 02:29 PM
Hedess Hedess is offline
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Hi 31st330i,

Great info.

My car already has the CD stacker in it but as you can see from the pics that I posted I can't see any amp.

At this point I have to assume that there is no amp. on my system and that the speakers are fed straight from head unit.

I will have to do some more investigating on the weekend to see if this is the case.
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  #13  
Old 01-22-2004, 02:54 PM
31st330i 31st330i is offline
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the amp is hard to see as it is black. it's not likely that you don't have an amp.

the red arrow ponts to the amp (actually the connector on the amp):
http://www.mindspring.com/~pmbenn/pics/hk-19.jpg

this is what the amps look like uninstalled (HK amp on right standard on left):
http://www.mindspring.com/~pmbenn/pics/hk-4.jpg
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  #14  
Old 01-22-2004, 03:18 PM
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you do NOT have an amp. nor do i. if you want more info on what the speakers are. do a search for "hw" in the ICE forum.

off on a bit of a tangent:
things that i'm not sure about the HU speaker outs is if the outputs are balanced differential or unbalanced. if it's balanced differential then perhaps twisted paired signal to a differential amp input may be better. if unbalanced (using RCA jacks and coax) then regular aftermarket stuff is better. kaz or anyone i've seen DIY differential receivers to unbalanced outs on the net. wonder if it's worth building. do they even use balanced differential output stages? if it's balanced diff signals, may be it's preferable to use CAT5! as signal wire to a DIY differential reciever then diff RX w/ unbalanced output to aftermarket amp.
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Last edited by HW; 01-22-2004 at 03:29 PM.
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  #15  
Old 01-22-2004, 03:42 PM
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Kaz Kaz is offline
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Yay, HW to the rescue.

I've been wondering about this. If the radios are the same, would the outputs be different? Maybe there's an internal switch that switches between speaker outs and differential 'line' outs. Now, I came across this page not too long ago, and started wondering if the two are one in the same???

http://www.bcae1.com/brighead.htm

I'm not understanding this (and also check the 'bridging' link in there) 100% (I decided to be a civil engineering major, not electrical. Good call) but it looks to me that the two conditions are either identical, or a difference in phase or something. What Dave Bagby said about the outputs being +/- 11VDC makes me wonder.

People that have amps that say they can take differential inputs (Zapco, newer a/d/s, PG, JL) have no problems running without a BLC. I looked in the VEN4 when I had it open to make the RCA holes bigger, and it just had 4 little transformers in it and that's it.

Oh yeah, I'm actually planning on running CAT5 to the BLC.
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  #16  
Old 01-22-2004, 04:09 PM
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i'll have to spend some time on that pages description to full understand it better. and re-read dave's writeup.

perhaps 0 reference at the output of the HU is not 0 reference of the car.

hmm...i must say it's been a while since i played w/ hardware. an o'scope to probe around would be nice.

but it is possible to get a double rail power supply out of a single rail using fancy switching and big capacitors. i wonder if anyone messed up their e46 HU's by just connecting the HU to an unbalance input. ven4 is only 4 transformers i wonder what the frequency response of it is. pretty pricey for 4 little transformers.
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Last edited by HW; 01-22-2004 at 04:19 PM.
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  #17  
Old 01-22-2004, 04:28 PM
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Yeah, I was rather disappointed when I saw that that's all it was. It can be said, though, that simlper is better and it introduces less 'crap' into the signal.
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  #18  
Old 01-22-2004, 04:38 PM
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btw, does it use toroidal transformers?
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  #19  
Old 01-22-2004, 04:41 PM
Hedess Hedess is offline
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Hi HW/Kaz,

My dealer just confirmed what you have said - no AMP.

If I want to install an amp in the trunk I will have to run the cables from the head unit to it and then cables back to the speakers.

Do you know or can you reccomend a way of doing this?

HW - I could not find an ICE forum did you mean a thread? I would like to find out what the current speakers are.

More work for me on the weekend.
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  #20  
Old 01-22-2004, 04:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HW
btw, does it use toroidal transformers?
Yeah, right. They look like the tiny ones you see on internal modems.
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  #21  
Old 01-22-2004, 04:48 PM
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this thread is in the ICE forum. "In-Car-Electronics"

1" tweeters in the front 8ohms w/ a 6.8uF cap in series acting as 1st order high pass filter
160mm midbass 4ohms front and rear. the tweeter/cap series is connected in parallel to the front midbass. combined front speaker combination is 2.7ohms.
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  #22  
Old 01-22-2004, 05:00 PM
Hedess Hedess is offline
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Thanks guys

I just have to figure out the wiring part now.

More homework to be done.
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  #23  
Old 01-22-2004, 05:59 PM
CWolfey CWolfey is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hedess
Hi HW/Kaz,

My dealer just confirmed what you have said - no AMP.

If I want to install an amp in the trunk I will have to run the cables from the head unit to it and then cables back to the speakers.

Do you know or can you reccomend a way of doing this?

HW - I could not find an ICE forum did you mean a thread? I would like to find out what the current speakers are.

More work for me on the weekend.
OK.. well there is one trick to minimize on wires:

If you run the outputs from the radio to the trunk- 4 speaker wires then take the remaining wires behind the dash which are the speaker leads and connect the fronts to the rears, That would enable you to connect the front output of your amp to what was the rear speaker leads in the trunk that are jumped out behind the dash to give you fronts...now you can connect the rear output directly to your rears and you done.
It is very common to do this to save on the amount of wires being run.

That is about the only thing you can do to make it easier.
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  #24  
Old 01-22-2004, 07:07 PM
Hedess Hedess is offline
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Tanks for the tip.

This would also mean that the wires that were going to the rears would have to be extended to reach the amp. There would then be two joins in the wire. Would this make a difference to the sound quality?

Also, what would be the best way to run wires from the HU to the rear? Does anybody have a DIY that shows this?
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  #25  
Old 01-23-2004, 10:21 AM
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online manual for zapco amp w/ symbilink (balanced differential signals).

http://www.zapco.com/sound/prod/pdf/z600c2sl.pdf

compares unbalanced and balance diff signals.

is there a move from unbalanced to balance diff signals in the car audio arena?
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Last edited by HW; 01-23-2004 at 10:28 AM.
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