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Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 5 Series > E39 (1997 - 2003)

E39 (1997 - 2003)
The BMW 5-Series (E39 chassis) was introduced in the United States as a 1997 model year car and lasted until the 2004 when the E60 chassis was released. The United States saw several variations including the 525i, 528i, 530i and 540i. -- View the E39 Wiki

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  #1  
Old 11-27-2009, 01:54 PM
saudermotors saudermotors is offline
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99 528i secondary air pump circuit question

Had the 99 528 to the dealer to diagnose the check engine light, they told me the secondary air pump and circulation valve were both bad and they would gladly replace them both for about $900, which I declined. Upon testing the car myself I found The pump works fine but there is no current at the pump. I tried it this morning after the car sat overnight (since the pump only runs on cold starts) and still no current. Where does the command signal come from? I did test all the fuses in the car as well. Is there a relay? Help
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  #2  
Old 11-27-2009, 03:46 PM
cn90 cn90 is offline
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Air Valve + Air Pump:
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=402816

Air Pump Relay, Thread #9 has the pic:
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=400518
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  #3  
Old 11-28-2009, 06:42 AM
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Fudman Fudman is offline
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Your diagnosis appears to be correct. The DME controls the SAP relay which triggers the pump. On the ME 7.2 ECM, connector X60004 activates the SAP relay off pin 3. The SAP relay is located in relay panel 1, which is located in the E-box in the right rear of the engine compartment. Good luck.
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  #4  
Old 11-28-2009, 09:24 AM
jecain jecain is offline
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Mein Auto: '00 528i
the dealer would gladly replace them...silly dealers
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  #5  
Old 11-29-2009, 07:54 PM
saudermotors saudermotors is offline
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Thanks for the input, I am anxious to apply some of my new found knowledge.
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  #6  
Old 11-30-2009, 11:54 AM
saudermotors saudermotors is offline
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Hey Fudman, where is the DME located? Do you (or anybody)have a schematic of the wiring at the DME plugs to help identify the correct wires. I am just a newbie with BMW service, so pardon the dumb question.
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  #7  
Old 11-30-2009, 12:51 PM
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bmw_n00b13 bmw_n00b13 is offline
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The DME is located under the passenger-side air filter box.
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  #8  
Old 11-30-2009, 02:40 PM
eddiec eddiec is offline
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Quote:
Do you (or anybody)have a schematic of the wiring at the DME plugs to help identify the correct wires.

Have a look on here -

http://www.bmw-planet.com/diagrams/release/en/
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  #9  
Old 11-30-2009, 04:24 PM
samakadoozie samakadoozie is offline
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Ok, I had the same issues.. heard this loud vacuum cleaner sound, finally figured out what it was and disconnected the airpump from the bottom of it. Replaced the relay, and reset the lights, everything seemed fine. 2 days later, engine light back on... same 2 codes (P1423 and P1421). I just ordered a new air pump and yet another relay, as well as the air valve. Will this solve my problem? The air pump runs, but not what I think is long enough, and it grumbles and feels like something inside is grinding. Then the engine seems to want to die, like it's starved for air?

What kind of pressure hose should I use..? I assume I should replace that also when replacing the pump and the valve?

Thanks,
Cheryl

BTW, have found the diagrams and pictures EXTREMELY helpful to this BMW newbie who wants to do it all herself!
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  #10  
Old 12-01-2009, 07:15 AM
saudermotors saudermotors is offline
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Thanks eddiec for the link on BMW-planet. That is great info! Problem I'm having is that when I get to the specific spot I need to be it won't show me a picture or diagram. some of the other things I don't need to know when browsing around came up OK, but I can't get the info I need. I am pretty excited about the site and the info in it if I can just get the site figured out.
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  #11  
Old 12-01-2009, 07:27 AM
cn90 cn90 is offline
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saudermotors,

I think you make it too complicated. You should do this:
- Open the Pass Cabin Area, check relay K6304. Usually BMW and Bosch use "30 and 87" for the HOT circuit. Jump those terminals, if Air Pump runs, then relay is bad. Vice Versa, if Air Pump does not run then Air Pump is bad.


- Chances are your Air Valve went dead, killing the Air Pump.
1. Buy new Air Valve + gasket.
2. Air Pump, see my info above for rebuild using "SKF 626" bearing for $10. It is not hard the key part is to get the Impeller off the shaft using a small puller or vice grip. I can post more info if you need the vice grip trick.

Last edited by cn90; 12-01-2009 at 09:30 AM.
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  #12  
Old 12-01-2009, 09:26 AM
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Fudman Fudman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samakadoozie View Post
Ok, I had the same issues.. heard this loud vacuum cleaner sound, finally figured out what it was and disconnected the airpump from the bottom of it. Replaced the relay, and reset the lights, everything seemed fine. 2 days later, engine light back on... same 2 codes (P1423 and P1421). I just ordered a new air pump and yet another relay, as well as the air valve. Will this solve my problem? The air pump runs, but not what I think is long enough, and it grumbles and feels like something inside is grinding. Then the engine seems to want to die, like it's starved for air?

What kind of pressure hose should I use..? I assume I should replace that also when replacing the pump and the valve?

Thanks,
Cheryl

BTW, have found the diagrams and pictures EXTREMELY helpful to this BMW newbie who wants to do it all herself!

Before you randomly replace parts, determine the cause of the codes (to save $$). The SAP system is an emission system that adds air into the exhaust stream for about 1 minute on a cold start to assist in the combustion of unburned hydrocarbons in the exhaust stream. It does not function when the engine is warm. It is SOP to replace the valve when replacing the pump as valve failure often leads to pump failure by allowing hot exhaust gas into the pump, which condenses and kills the pump.

To troubleshoot, start your car when cold. Do you hear the air pump activate (it is located in front of the right front wheel well)? If you don't hear it, it is either the pump or the relay. Check the relay as per the previous post. If you hear the pump, the valve may not be functioning, either because it is not getting proper vacuum or it is shot. Check the thin tube going into the valve. The short rubber hose that connects the valve to the plastic tubing gets weathered and cracks, leading to insufficient vacuum to open the valve. At the other end of that hose, the vasuum pump occasionally fails too. The corrugated hose from the pump outlet into the manifold is plastic is a rarely the cause of a SAP code. These are the most common causes for SAP failure. If it's not one of the above, then I'm stumped .

Last edited by Fudman; 12-01-2009 at 09:44 AM.
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  #13  
Old 12-02-2009, 10:04 AM
saudermotors saudermotors is offline
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We verified along time ago the pump and valve are good, their is an electrical issue before the SAP relay, I am trying to verify which terminal on the DME the power comes from to energize the SAP relay.
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  #14  
Old 12-02-2009, 02:07 PM
eddiec eddiec is offline
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saudermotors

Wiring diagram for DME SAP relay 1999 528 US spec. To get the wiring diagrams to work fully you may need latest version of IE and JAVA on you PC.

Note - DME grounds the -VE side of relay or solenoid coil to energise.




Hope this helps.
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  #15  
Old 12-02-2009, 02:35 PM
eddiec eddiec is offline
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Pin assignments at plug connector X60004
Pin / Type /Description Signal type/ Connection Measuring notes
1 A Battery charge indicator lamp signal (terminal 61) Instrument cluster

2 A Voltage signal, terminal 30h Instrument cluster Integrated electronic control unit (IKE)

3 A Activation, secondary air pump relay Secondary air pump relay


4 E Signal Electric fan Electric fan

5 Not used

6 Not used

7 Not used

8 Not used

9 Not used

10 A Activation, fuel pump relay (EKP) EKP relay

11 A Oil pressure indicator lamp Instrument cluster

12 Not used

13 Not used

14 Not used

15 Not used

16 Not used

17 A Engine speed signal output (TD) Diagnostic connector

18 Not used

19 E Signal Reversing light Instrument cluster Integrated electronic control unit (IKE)

20 Not used

21 A Signal Oil level sensor Light module

22 E Rear right speed signal ABS/ASC control unit ABS/DSC control unit

23 E Signal Clutch switch Clutch switch

24 E Brake light switch signal Brake light switch

25 Not used

26 E Voltage supply, terminal 15 Fuse F14

27 E Data link MFL Coil spring

28 E Brake light test signal Brake light switch

29 E A/C compressor signal Heating and A/C control module

30 M Ground Leakage diagnosis pump

31 Not used

32 A Diagnosis signal TXD Diagnostic connector

33 E/A Communication link (EWS) Electronic immobilizer control unit (EWS)

34 A Signal, leak diagnosis pump Leakage diagnosis pump

35 Not used

36 E/A CAN-bus high CAN link

37 E/A CAN-bus low CAN link

38 M Ground Coolant outlet temperature sensor

39 E Signal Coolant outlet temperature sensor

40 Not used
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  #16  
Old 02-15-2014, 06:17 PM
Euro line Euro line is offline
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Hello I was wandering if somebody can give me a hand telling me if you know about my problem. I have a 2000 bmw 528i I did an engine on it just 2 weeks ago, everything is fine except one code p0173 air fuel mixture lean bank 2 . Emission I just did it two days ago passed beautiful , so my o2 sensor and cat they are fine . Now what I have felt only very slightly on cold start until it warms up just a very little idle drop you nearly feel it . The code is not a hard code also it comes back after 2-3 days . Now I have checked for vacium/air leak and I don't see none but what I can hear is my air pump turning on when my engine is hot and I am on a traficc stop and go while I wait on a red light. Somebody had this problem before and what did they do thnx.

Last edited by Euro line; 02-15-2014 at 06:19 PM.
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  #17  
Old Yesterday, 09:35 PM
Kickstand Kickstand is offline
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1998 528i check engine light

Codes 1188, 1189 manufacturer cont fuel air metering is on and I can't smog it, but I don't know where to find the secondary air pump. I've had a few people look at my car to show me where it is and they've told me its not where its suppose to be......help please
My car runs good (not as strong as it was running tho) and periodically it bogs down (very little power) and speedometer stops working , then starts again, any idea what could be wrong, is it just a coincidence that speedometer acts up and loses power intermittently, or is secondary airpump causing these issues ?

Last edited by Kickstand; Yesterday at 09:44 PM.
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  #18  
Old Yesterday, 09:40 PM
JimLev JimLev is offline
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Where did they tell you it was located?
It should be behind the pass side fog light. Have you looked there?
Are you sure the previous owner didn't remove it?
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  #19  
Old Yesterday, 09:47 PM
Kickstand Kickstand is offline
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That's where I was told it is suppose to be, but its not, just an empty space there, was also told it might be under car.
My brother had the car for s few years and it passed smog with no problems
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