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E60 (2004 - 2010)
BMW 5-Series (E60 chassis) was first seen in the Unites States in the fall of 2003 with a 2004 Model Year designation. The E60 is now available as a 528i, 528xi, 535i, 535xi, 550i and a 535xi sports wagon! -- View the E60 Wiki

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  #26  
Old 01-28-2013, 02:56 AM
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Hogie Hogie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricardo567 View Post
Hogie,

The hydroloc theory, to me it is right. Look at the exhaust cycle. If Seafoam being entered when one of exhaust valve opens, then the Seafoam will be pushed out since during the exhaust cycle, the piston is moving up and the valve opens all the time. Only during other cycles, which is the exhaust valve being closed, but not complete seal, Seafoam can get through and stay in the cylinders to be compressed when all vavles are closed. That's why he said we should limit the amount of Seafoam, roughly 1 oz at a time for each treatment. He also said the 6 or 8 cylinders engines rest on about 15 degrees to the left or right so when the all exhaust valves were closed (Seafoam unable to get through quickly like an opened exhaust valve cycle), the Seafoam will penetrate on the top of them and gradually drift down to the sides of the exhaust ports.

In soaking, I had been tried one can without soaking, it would not work until I started to soak overnight or 2 days then drove at third gear for 10 minutes up to 5,000 RPM on the highway, and finally I unclogged the blockages. I didn't know for sure whether I did use up to 2 cans or just soaked and drove hardly that contributes to unclog passage.

In spraying, the amount of Seafoam you put in the passage won't be enough to dissolve the carbon built up. Remember carbon built up in the passage head is tough like a coal because the tremendous heat makes it hard. To break it, we have to be patient and repeat the process until it fixes. Some of members here used Seafoam to pour in the tube, reconnect the tube, started engine for couple minutes then rested it for 20 minutes, and ran on highway; they didn't soak it overnight. They have reported that they unclogged it after using up to 2 cans of Seafoam.

Good luck.
Ricardo567

Thank you for the response. As you can see from my prior response I am quite ready to let the code remain to avoid a known costly repair. However after reading your response I am going to give it a couple cans over time. I'll start this weekend.

In the pick this is a 2.8 or 3.0 6 cyl. So easy to use the 1 oz. method in the air hose. The 545i has the two valves in the rear head area and the Y pipe turns down at the front of the engine. The spray sea foam approach I used seems to be able to get the spray in the air passages. Do you think the spray is equal to the liquid as far as penetrating and dissolving?
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  #27  
Old 02-07-2013, 08:59 AM
svett svett is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Max View Post
The first two links are not applicable to your 545i. Unlike the 6 cylinder engines, the N62 SA system does not use vacuum operated check valves, and the fresh air is routed through the heads into the exhaust ports, not into the headers. The CEL is activated when the O2 sensors don't sense a lean shift due to fresh air entering the exhaust during SAP operation. This can be due to a cracked y-pipe under the intake manifold, stuck check valves, or clogged SA ports in the heads. Unfortunately, clogged ports are quite often the problem. This requires removal of the heads and drilling out the carbon. Some people over in the E65 forum have claimed success in opening up the ports using solvents and wire brushes, but I spent a week doing that with no success. So, it's head removal time for me. Fortunately, I have the means and the know-how to do the job myself.
Thanks for clearing this up Steve! There have been several postings since mine/yours. Do you have any additional comments for us?
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  #28  
Old 02-07-2013, 09:32 AM
svett svett is offline
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Secondary Air Injection System Fault P0491

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmwoem1 View Post
The reason why these passages get clogged is due to leaking exhaust valve stem seals. The oil leaks down the back of the valve and eventually becomes carbonized due to the heat. The secondary air holes are right next to the exhaust valve guides. I've done this job many times (I'm a BMW tech)
Hi bmwoem! Care to elaborate? My 05 545i w/ 95K miles on it has had her oil changed every 10K w/ Castrol syn. It is super clean inside when I look down in the oil cap, looks new.

So either the Bank 1 P0491 CEL code I am getting is related to a cracked y-pipe under the intake manifold, stuck check valves, a bad 02 sensor or I got carbon build-up/clogged SA ports in the heads (obviously a bigger problem)? Do you like the Seafoam 3 time ON soak suggestion for clogged SA ports?

Thanks in advance!

Last edited by svett; 02-07-2013 at 09:38 AM. Reason: mispelling
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  #29  
Old 02-08-2013, 09:18 AM
Stephen Max Stephen Max is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmwoem1 View Post
The reason why these passages get clogged is due to leaking exhaust valve stem seals. The oil leaks down the back of the valve and eventually becomes carbonized due to the heat. The secondary air holes are right next to the exhaust valve guides. I've done this job many times (I'm a BMW tech)
When you say you have done this many times, do you mean the Seafoam treatment, or did you remove the heads and decarbonize by removing the carbon by hand, (e.g. drilling)?
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  #30  
Old 02-08-2013, 10:19 AM
bmwoem1 bmwoem1 is offline
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I've done the job by cleaning the ports manually.... Using sea foam will not work. If you guys saw how hard the carbon was, you'd understand why
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  #31  
Old 02-08-2013, 11:12 AM
Stephen Max Stephen Max is offline
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Well, that corresponds to my experience of letting Seafoam soak for a week with no effect. So I'll be pulling the heads any day now.
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  #32  
Old 02-08-2013, 01:58 PM
bmwoem1 bmwoem1 is offline
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I never said I pulled the heads off... You can clean the ports by removing the exhaust manifolds and work from underneath. Of course if you want them spotless, then you could remove the heads and send them out to a machine shop and have them chemically cleaned, they'll look brand new.
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  #33  
Old 02-09-2013, 07:38 PM
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This is a new concept of removing exhaust manifold and cleaning air ports. Are the airports readily accessible once the manifold is off? Do you have any pics? How hard to get to on a 545i?

Thanks
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  #34  
Old 02-09-2013, 09:11 PM
Ricardo567 Ricardo567 is offline
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Hogie,

I don't want to take off the head. It is very complicated. A minor dirty surface can cause the coolant leakages or compression contaminate with coolant.
To me, unless I don't have any way to work around it, I won't never ever take the head off.
I think Seafoam has done extraordinary job to unclog the passage in the cylinder head if we have patience soaking little by little after 2 weeks, it will clear the passage.
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  #35  
Old 02-10-2013, 05:33 AM
bmwoem1 bmwoem1 is offline
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To remove the exhaust manifolds you have to lower the subframe and support the engine with a cross brace... It's easier for someone with a lift. Once they're out, you have enough room to clean the ports enough to fix the check engine light
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  #36  
Old 02-10-2013, 08:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricardo567 View Post
Hogie,

I don't want to take off the head. It is very complicated. A minor dirty surface can cause the coolant leakages or compression contaminate with coolant.
To me, unless I don't have any way to work around it, I won't never ever take the head off.
I think Seafoam has done extraordinary job to unclog the passage in the cylinder head if we have patience soaking little by little after 2 weeks, it will clear the passage.
I have been doing the soak method with about 1 oz of the spray Sea Foam. Started this weekend. I used INPA to turn on the SAS pump so I did not have to start the engine. I did the sea foam treatment about a month ago but not a 48 hour soak. When I read my codes this weekend I only had 2 P0492 errors in 30 days, which is actually an improvement. I think the Seam Foam is slowly opening the passages.

Hopefully I wont get a P0491 passenger side and I need to be proactive on that side once I get the P0492 under control

To me this should be a preventative maintenance like every 30K miles. Too bad no one has come up with an attachment to spray both sides through he SAS piping. May prevent this 6K repair if head is removed.
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  #37  
Old 02-10-2013, 08:14 AM
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Hogie Hogie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmwoem1 View Post
To remove the exhaust manifolds you have to lower the subframe and support the engine with a cross brace... It's easier for someone with a lift. Once they're out, you have enough room to clean the ports enough to fix the check engine light
Thanks BMWoem1,

Sounds like a good alternate to removing heads but maybe beyond what I can tackle. I can rent a lift but the subframe sounds like a lot of diss-assembly plus supporting the motor would be a challenge. To your point sounds least invasive to breaking seals and gaskets.
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  #38  
Old 02-10-2013, 08:42 AM
MINI+BMWtek MINI+BMWtek is offline
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I have to give credit to realoem regarding cleaning ports on car it seems like not possible but I guess it can be done.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Bimmer App
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  #39  
Old 02-12-2013, 12:51 PM
svett svett is offline
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SAS pump location

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricardo567 View Post
Hogie,

I don't want to take off the head. It is very complicated. A minor dirty surface can cause the coolant leakages or compression contaminate with coolant.
To me, unless I don't have any way to work around it, I won't never ever take the head off.
I think Seafoam has done extraordinary job to unclog the passage in the cylinder head if we have patience soaking little by little after 2 weeks, it will clear the passage.
Hi guys,
I am going to attempt the Sea-foam soak method today per the uploaded you tube video from Ricardo. The video is not of an N62 545i engine though. Where is the SAS pump? I looked at the diagram underneath the hood and I am still confused? Anyone got an pics? Links to an exploded parts list?

Thanks,
Steve
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  #40  
Old 02-12-2013, 07:43 PM
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In my N62 e60 the SAS pump is under the passenger-side headlamp - or you could say in the forward section of the right front fender well just behind the bumper.

When I took my headlamp out I could look straight down on top of it.
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  #41  
Old 02-13-2013, 08:03 AM
svett svett is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hogie View Post
In my N62 e60 the SAS pump is under the passenger-side headlamp - or you could say in the forward section of the right front fender well just behind the bumper.

When I took my headlamp out I could look straight down on top of it.
Thanks Hogie! Crazy location? The local Indy BMW shop shot down the idea of doing the Seafoam soak process when I was there yest fwiw. Going to try it anyway.

Last edited by svett; 02-13-2013 at 08:15 AM.
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  #42  
Old 02-13-2013, 12:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by svett View Post
Thanks Hogie! Crazy location? The local Indy BMW shop shot down the idea of doing the Seafoam soak process when I was there yest fwiw. Going to try it anyway.
What was the reason why ur indy shop shot down the seafoam treatment ? also bmwoem1 also shot it down and said it wouldnt work.. im thinking if u havent got the warning it could be good as a preventive maintenence.. to avoid pasages getting clogged.. also let us know your results
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  #43  
Old 02-13-2013, 03:52 PM
schpenxel schpenxel is offline
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So, trying to get some advice here. I have a high mileage 545i with no secondary air injection system error codes or issues. However, I am curious if there's something I can do to help ensure I don't get the issue down the road.

It seems like the build up would be a lot easier to clean out before everything is totally clogged up. Has anyone else done this as a preventative measure? Is there a reasonable way to check for build up to see how mine is looking?
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  #44  
Old 02-14-2013, 11:40 AM
Stephen Max Stephen Max is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by H F View Post
What was the reason why ur indy shop shot down the seafoam treatment ? also bmwoem1 also shot it down and said it wouldnt work.. im thinking if u havent got the warning it could be good as a preventive maintenence.. to avoid pasages getting clogged.. also let us know your results
Didn't work for me either, and I let it soak for a week.
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  #45  
Old 03-06-2013, 06:31 AM
svett svett is offline
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Bump

Last edited by svett; 03-10-2013 at 12:24 PM.
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  #46  
Old 03-06-2013, 01:09 PM
H F H F is offline
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Originally Posted by svett View Post
Update:
I went through in detail and completed with my buddy every step suggested by Robz_745 and the previous page video on you tube.

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...=543798&page=4

My buddy thought I was crazy, but it worked and no codes over last 1300 miles. Kind of a pain in the ass building these crazy tools and buying 5 cans of Seafoam.
Ultimately the Liqui Moly Jectron cleaner was the best for this job imo. BTW..one of the best synth oils out there also.
what kind of special tools did u make
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  #47  
Old 03-10-2013, 12:46 PM
svett svett is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by H F View Post
what kind of special tools did u make
These guys had success. You can click on the link here folks and see the custom tools and the process by Robz_745 and Fratan:

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho....php?p=7175641
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  #48  
Old 04-01-2013, 04:01 PM
schpenxel schpenxel is offline
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saw this earlier..
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  #49  
Old 04-01-2013, 08:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schpenxel View Post
saw this earlier..
Thanks for the video, I have not seen this one before but exactly what I need to clear my P0492 which I have not been able to clear.

Dude this is why I brought up in your coolant post. You have perfect access to the SAS valves and the metal tubes to the rear of the heads. I would definitely replace the valves. Tomkins BMW has an online portal and the valves are 92 bucks each.

http://www.tomkinsonbmwparts.com/


However, I have seen videos where the claim is carbon in the head has the air passage sealed at the exhaust valve. I do not think this brush method would fix that. Takes like a dremel bit right on the hole in the exhaust valve to grind out the carbon.

Son for me is the coolant pipe, SAS airlines, valve and RH valve cover gasket.

Last edited by Hogie; 04-01-2013 at 08:17 PM.
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  #50  
Old 04-01-2013, 08:20 PM
schpenxel schpenxel is offline
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Originally Posted by Hogie View Post
Thanks for the video, I have not seen this one before but exactly what I need to clear my P0492 which I have not been able to clear.

Dude this is why I brought up in your coolant post. You have perfect access to the SAS valves and the metal tubes to the rear of the heads. I would definitely replace the valves. Tomkins BMW has an online portal and the valves are 92 bucks each.

http://www.tomkinsonbmwparts.com/


However, I have seen videos where the claim is carbon in the head has the air passage sealed at the exhaust valve. I do not think this brush method would fix that. Takes like a dremel bit right on the hole in the exhaust valve to grind out the carbon.

Son for me is the coolant pipe, SAS airlines, valve and RH valve cover gasket.
If you get a chance, watch the whole video.. he uses carb cleaner + compressed air to get the air passages opened back up, then the brush just to finish cleaning out

Honestly I pulled the intake in about an hour, so I'll probably leave it alone for now. I really should probably at least clean out everything I can get to though.. hmm (I actually tried to get the pipes off of those one way valve things but couldn't get them off and came close to breaking the plastic connectors so I decided to leave it alone)

Guess it depends when my parts come in..
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