F10 handles worse than e60?

Hello everyone, it's all over the automotive media that the new 5 series has a numb steering feel compared to E39 or E60.
Do you guys think that's true ?

Not true, in my opinion. The steering feels different, but by no means worse. One has to realize that the F10 is a different car, with a more luxurious feel overall than the E60, and the steering feel reflects that. The F10 still feels most responsive to steering inputs, accurate and sharp.

Your best bet to form an opinion on the steering feel of the F10 is to drive one as much as possible under varied conditions, so I encourage you to test drive as much as you can.

+1

Originally Posted by rafa

not true, in my opinion. The steering feels different, but by no means worse. One has to realize that the f10 is a different car, with a more luxurious feel overall than the e60, and the steering feel reflects that. The f10 still feels most responsive to steering inputs, accurate and sharp.

Your best bet to form an opinion on the steering feel of the f10 is to drive one as much as possible under varied conditions, so i encourage you to test drive as much as you can.

Originally Posted by LeviDrive

Hello everyone, it's all over the automotive media that the new 5 series has a numb steering feel compared to E39 or E60.
Do you guys think that's true ?

NO thats rubbish, I have the 550i M Sport and with the three settings I experience the following.
In "Normal Mode" the car is softish and good for town driving and speeds up to say 55 MPH. In "Sport Mode suspension /steering ONLY" the car can be hustled at speed round the twisties no bother, the car just needs time to get used to the character of it, then you gain the confidence to push on.

It's a different car. Not to put too fine a point on it, but this has been discussed ad nauseum. Does the steering have less feel? Yes. Is it less visceral? Yes. Does it feel larger? Yes. Does it feel more ponderous? No. Is it less capable? No.

It all depends on what YOU want out of the experience. If you want a car that's exactly like an E39, you will be disappointed. If you want something that's like a 7 series with better handling, you'll be happy.

I have an E60, and I have an F10 on order. I came from an S4.

The first year with my E60, I thought it was a snooze to drive. And when you compare it to an S4/M3, it should be a snooze. I will still say that from a driving/handling perspective, I liked my S4 more than my E60...by a long shot.

It took me a while to realize that even though BMW throws around this slogan, "the Ultimate Driving Machine," I had to back down and understand the rationale for the particular model I have. The E60 is not an S4 competitor despite it being called an ultimate driving machine.

If BMW could package all their expertise in one vehicle, there would be one model in their line up. Since this is not possible, they have quite a few models...based on different needs and customer wants.

The idea that the E39/E60 offers Lambo/Porsche 911 style handling is preposterous; they are still sedans meant to move 4-5 people in comfort, with a little bit of fun built in. I would say the F10 does the same thing, but does it differently from the E39/E60. The F10, while it may have a more refined feel, still very much offers an engaging driving experience. It's just different from its predecessors, and it's certainly not a Buick or Lincoln.

And this comparison with Lexus...why is Lexus so bad? They make a damned good car, especially for the refined luxury sedan segment. Now, if you want to compare Lexus sports cars to M/S/AMG technology, then it's apples/oranges.

Again, realize what the F10 has set out to achieve, and I think you'll find it does most things quite well. Do you buy a desktop PC and then carry it on an airplane and get upset because it's not very portable? Then why buy a five passenger sedan and expect it to handle like a go-kart?

Originally Posted by FastMarkA

It took me a while to realize that even though BMW throws around this slogan, "the Ultimate Driving Machine," I had to back down and understand the rationale for the particular model I have. The E60 is not an S4 competitor despite it being called an ultimate driving machine.

If BMW could package all their expertise in one vehicle, there would be one model in their line up. Since this is not possible, they have quite a few models...based on different needs

Exactly.

Typically, BMW has been the Ultimate Driving Machine....for that segment.

I will conceed that with the F10, they have gotten away from being the segment leaders in dynamics. I believe that the new A6 will be equal, if not better. SLIGHTLY. These are shades of gray, not black and white.

Originally Posted by LeviDrive

Hello everyone, it's all over the automotive media that the new 5 series has a numb steering feel compared to E39 or E60.
Do you guys think that's true ?

I think you need to drive both and make that decision for yourself. Are you coming from an E60? I had an E60 prior to my F10 and although I loved me 2008 E60, I like my F10 much more in almost every respect, including the overall driving experience. It is different, and in my judgement, better. I wrote a detailed review and comparison here:

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...024&highlight=

You may have a different opinion, and in the end it is your opinion that counts. My recommendation is to take an F10 on an extended test drive. Be sure to drive a vehicle with DHP and SAT and make sure you have "sport or sport+" engaged. Also try a vehicle with IAS.

I take it that you asked for individual opinions and not technical facts. My opinion is that there is a night and day difference. The E60s steering is communicative, well weighted with a natural and linear feel. The F10s has none of those traits. That's my opinion after having owned both. And it has been discussed ad nauseum here. Do a search.

The E61 I drove beforehand was a nice car.
When I bought that car these forums were superfluous about the bad behaviour of that car due to the RFT's... I never used these tires, had no major problems and liked the drive.

Nowadays I drive a F11 and am really very skeptical about all the complaints about the handling performance of the car.
To say it simply, my F11 is faultless in driving and steering behavior.
The car is very nice to drive, with no problems what so ever the first 6 k.
There is no jerkiness, no pulling to the right or irresponsive steering. My car is very good, also on these parameters. It seems there is just a small amount of people that report on problems in these territories.
Some times making assumptions and comparisons about other cars. Like the expected Audi A6. The all new A6 was tested last week in Sicili, first reports are the FWD car is giving less driver feeling than the F10.
The 1700 kg FWD with ESP is tested as a very nice car, but on handling parameters the test is in favor for the F10.
See; http://www.autowereld.com/autonieuws...?artikel=11075 (in Dutch...)

Originally Posted by Sophisto

The E61 I drove beforehand was a nice car.
When I bought that car these forums were superfluous about the bad behaviour of that car due to the RFT's... I never used these tires, had no major problems and liked the drive.

Nowadays I drive a F11 and am really very skeptical about all the complaints about the handling performance of the car.
To say it simply, my F11 is faultless in driving and steering behavior.
The car is very nice to drive, with no problems what so ever the first 6 k.
There is no jerkiness, no pulling to the right or irresponsive steering. My car is very good, also on these parameters. It seems there is just a small amount of people that report on problems in these territories. And then start making assumptions and comparisons about other cars. Like the expected Audi A6. The all new A6 was tested last week in Sicili, first reports are the FWD car is giving less driver feeling than the F10. The 1700 kg FWD with ESP is tested as a very nice car, but on handling parameters the test is in favor for the F10. Nothing new there, that has been the statusquo for a long time.

Yeah Needsdecaf stop making assumptions about the new A6 and listen to Sophisto who has facts that the new A6 FWD ( that you probably can't even get in the US ) handles worse than the F10. Or was it not facts and his own hands on experience? Nope, it was based on long time statusquo and initial reports, funny that seems a lot like assumptions to me. Sorry Sophisto but you got personal first and had this one coming.

Originally Posted by solstice

Yeah Needsdecaf stop making assumptions about the new A6 and listen to Sophisto who has facts that the new A6 FWD ( that you probably can't even get in the US ) handles worse than the F10. Or was it not facts and his own hands on experience? Nope, it was based on long time statusquo and initial reports, funny that seems a lot like assumptions to me. Sorry Sophisto but you got personal first and had this one coming.

I resign and edited my text, thanks I stand corrected.

Originally Posted by LeviDrive

Hello everyone, it's all over the automotive media that the new 5 series has a numb steering feel compared to E39 or E60.
Do you guys think that's true ?

It is not true, in my opinion. I am coming from 2008 550i M Sport.
My new 550i xDrive has natural, very precise steering, takes tight corners as well as e60 and engine/transmission is big improvement over e60.

It lacks on center feel and fails to ride steady on the straight and narrow. I own one and have test driven another 3. Fact.

Mine has no issues in going straight, and there is no lack of feel on center or otherwise, handles better than e60 535 sport, AMG cars, 3 Series, but not as good as Boxter, but otherwise infinitely better. One needs to drive RWD 550i produced from December on. I test drove earlier car and it felt differently.

Originally Posted by blackhawk_pilot

It lacks on center feel and fails to ride steady on the straight and narrow. I own one and have test driven another 3. Fact.

The clear FACT is that YOUR car has problems, based on the various comments you have posted. If you were to test drive some other F10s you will find that the problems with YOUR car are not the norm. It is well documented that some F10 owners (mostly early builds) are having steering issues, and clearly yours is one of them. Find a competent dealer and get it fixed.

Originally Posted by blackhawk_pilot

It lacks on center feel and fails to ride steady on the straight and narrow. I own one and have test driven another 3. Fact.

Sorry, I also have an F10 535i. If you mean by "steady on the straight and narrow" that you need to continually correct for steering drift, I'll strongly disagree with you there. My 535i tracks true and straight with barely a need for any straight-ahead corrections. No different really from my previous 330i and 335i. Yes, a lighter steering feel especially at low speeds, but tracks perfectly. If you mean something else then I would need some clarification.

Originally Posted by blackhawk_pilot

It lacks on center feel and fails to ride steady on the straight and narrow. I own one and have test driven another 3. Fact.

fact: your car is not the norm, nor are, miraculously, the other 3 you drove

Just my 2P, before BMW I owned the following "AUDI's".
A6 Avant (2), S8 2001 model, A8 3.0TDI, A8 4.2V8 TDI,B7 RS4, and last but worst S8 V10.
NONE of these cars drove as well as the "equivalent" BMW's in there sector.
The interiors were in days gone by great until BMW's latest venture IMO.
One observation was NO Audi I ever bought gave anywhere near the quoted economy figures, they were all poor, on the other hand the BMW's ( at least the one's I bought ) equaled or bettered them.
All these cars were bought NEW.

Audi is a nice comfortable cruiser, and I would be surprised if their latest offerings will be any different.

The RS5 I test drove in Spain needed 4K RPM on the clock before it got going, and fuel economy was terrible.

Originally Posted by LeviDrive

Hello everyone, it's all over the automotive media that the new 5 series has a numb steering feel compared to E39 or E60.
Do you guys think that's true ?

After 3-series, touring and coupe. I went to E60 - fantastic! Just got my new f10 and it is a big step up. I love the drive and the handling, and the different modus u can chose. From sport+ to comfort. This car have it all - style and space!

I don't know about handling worse, but you definitely feel the added weight of the car.

I sometimes feel like I miss my E60. I felt that car wrapped itself around me and anticipated my every move. The F10 is an entirely different animal. It's not made to be the same as the E60. The steering on mine is great, on the straight aways it seems as if all you have to do is think about correcting the car and it does it. It's a very responsive easy car to drive. I have had difficulties in driving in strong winds though. Sometimes I feel like I can't keep the car going straight and in my lane.

Originally Posted by FPNY

I sometimes feel like I miss my E60. I felt that car wrapped itself around me and anticipated my every move. The F10 is an entirely different animal. It's not made to be the same as the E60. The steering on mine is great, on the straight aways it seems as if all you have to do is think about correcting the car and it does it. It's a very responsive easy car to drive. I have had difficulties in driving in strong winds though. Sometimes I feel like I can't keep the car going straight and in my lane.

I had a tough time in the 50 MPH winds we had this Monday. I felt like it was getting his pretty hard. Not that it was all over the place, but that it required constant attention.

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

I had a tough time in the 50 MPH winds we had this Monday. I felt like it was getting his pretty hard. Not that it was all over the place, but that it required constant attention.

So are you all saying the F10 behaves differently from other cars in high wind situations? Why would that be?

Originally Posted by markl53

So are you all saying the F10 behaves differently from other cars in high wind situations? Why would that be?

I have said before that my car, in particular, does not self center very well. I did have the pull to the right issue before I bought the car, and they aligned it and updated the power steering. Not sure if that has something to do with it or not. I figured it was the way the alignment settings were set up.