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E39 (1997 - 2003)
The BMW 5-Series (E39 chassis) was introduced in the United States as a 1997 model year car and lasted until the 2004 when the E60 chassis was released. The United States saw several variations including the 525i, 528i, 530i and 540i. -- View the E39 Wiki

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  #101  
Old 03-05-2011, 05:55 AM
franka franka is offline
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I thought I recalled that 'Metric Mechanic' uses the groove and surface turbulence ST concept and wanted to check it out before posting and commenting.

http://www.metricmechanic.com/catalo...turbulance.php

Their 'grooves' are actually little steps going up the top side of the valve head. MM is a reputable company that has been in the BMW improved performance business for many years.

But still, grooved valves are not used by any auto company, racing team or mentioned in any engine magazines of which I am aware. And I have a subscription to an expensive, foreign magazine that covers all technical aspects of top line racing engines from around the world. Including all the different classes and types.
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Last edited by franka; 03-05-2011 at 02:12 PM.
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  #102  
Old 03-05-2011, 06:02 AM
franka franka is offline
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Engine Masters on news stands now

The latest edition of 'Engine Masters' is currently on the new stands.

I saw it yesterday. I haven't read it yet, but highly recommend it for us gear heads. Usually they go fast so I suggest you p/u a copy very soon.
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  #103  
Old 03-05-2011, 09:08 AM
bobdmac bobdmac is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by franka View Post
I thought I recalled that 'Metric Mechanic' uses the groove and surface turbulence ST concept and wanted to check it out before posting and commenting.

http://www.metricmechanic.com/catalo...turbulance.php

Their 'grooves' are actually little steps going up the top side of the valve head. MM is a reputable company that has been in the BMW improved performance business for many years.

But still, grooved valves are not used by any auto company, racing team or mentioned in any engine magazines that I am aware of. And I have a subscription to an expensive, foreign magazine that covers nothing but top line racing engines from around the world.

For the sake of truth and completeness I make the MM info available.
Interesting link. The diagram reminds me of the episode of "Mythbusters," when they showed that if you're driving a pickup truck with an empty bed, you get better gas mileage with the tailgate up than you do with the tailgate down. They measured the fuel consumption both ways, and then they demonstrated the aerodynamics with a scale model in a wind tunnel. With the tailgate up, it creates a "bubble" of air that deflects the main flow so that it passes smoothly over the bed. You couldn't see the effect very well until they showed it using the super high-speed camera.

In any event. Metric Mechanics apparently doesn't claim any fuel vaporization advantage, unlike the ALLPAR article.
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  #104  
Old 03-05-2011, 08:48 PM
franka franka is offline
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Hi Alex...Are you aware of these folks. You can exchange your heads for ported and polished ones. Still stock but flow more and make more torque and hp.

http://www.bavengine.com/bavarian_cnc.html

Seriously, I would do this if I had my heads off.
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Last edited by franka; 03-05-2011 at 08:49 PM.
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  #105  
Old 03-05-2011, 09:59 PM
bobdmac bobdmac is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by franka View Post
Hi Alex...Are you aware of these folks. You can exchange your heads for ported and polished ones. Still stock but flow more and make more torque and hp.

http://www.bavengine.com/bavarian_cnc.html

Seriously, I would do this if I had my heads off.
Hahaa! Troublemaker!
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  #106  
Old 03-05-2011, 11:01 PM
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Flug540 Flug540 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by franka View Post
Alex...I assume those photos answered your question about tulip vs penny-stick valves and back-cut. If not please ask away.
Yes, they sure did, thank you!

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Originally Posted by bobdmac View Post
Hah! He's about 20 minutes away from me. I was thinking of driving over just to see what the project looked like.
If you were referring to my project, you are welcome to stop by. You are in Berkley, CA, right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by franka View Post
Hi Alex...Are you aware of these folks. You can exchange your heads for ported and polished ones. Still stock but flow more and make more torque and hp. http://www.bavengine.com/bavarian_cnc.html

Seriously, I would do this if I had my heads off.
I was not... But now I am and it sounds very tempting. I think I'm going to have to give them a call and see what happens.

As for the project, I did a lot of cleaning today again in the engine bay, everything is clean except the engine, which is something for tomorrow. I loooove clean parts

I took my AC pump apart the other day (in my other thread) and found that a reed valve broke off (a design flaw apparently), and caused the knocking that started this whole project (I thought the engine was knocking). Bought a replacement pump on eBay, which is the updated model where the design flaw was fixed.
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  #107  
Old 03-05-2011, 11:51 PM
bobdmac bobdmac is offline
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If you were referring to my project, you are welcome to stop by. You are in Berkley, CA, right?
Right, just 20 minutes from Wayhard. We could set something up via PM. I'd love to see all the shiny parts.
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  #108  
Old 03-06-2011, 10:43 AM
franka franka is offline
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Fyi to some readers regarding the magazines I mentioned.

PHR and Engine Masters are about American cars and building powerful American V8s. There is nothing in them about BMWs or any other foreign cars.

But what is ALSO in them, that is of interest to me and other gearheads, is the in-depth and detailed articles about building powerful engines, plus the other bits of info that can apply to ANY engine, BMW to KIA. A good example is what I posted earlier about back-cutting valves and barely scratches the surface of performance building.
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Last edited by franka; 03-07-2011 at 11:31 AM.
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  #109  
Old 03-06-2011, 12:15 PM
bobdmac bobdmac is offline
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Thanks, Frank. At this point, I'm more of a latent (or former, if I ever actually reached that status) gearhead, but at the rate things are going on this forum, that could change.
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  #110  
Old 03-06-2011, 07:09 PM
franka franka is offline
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Alex...

There is another picture of 30 degree, back-cut valves, intake and exhaust, in the above mentioned Engine Masters, Spring 2011, Volume 14, number 1, issue, page 80. This is the same issue that is on the racks now. The picture is part of a 6-7 page article on porting heads that I just now read.

Back-cutting is a standard performance method that I personally would do to any engine that I had apart. The OEMS don't do it because it requires a second cutting set-up and a second cut, essentially doubling of the valve's cutting time and hence cost.
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Last edited by franka; 03-07-2011 at 11:35 AM.
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  #111  
Old 03-07-2011, 09:29 AM
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I just called Bavarian Engine Exchange and they said they no longer provide this service. So I'll proceed with the original plan to clean everything, lap the valves and have someone back-cut them.

This weekend was all about cleaning again, most things are done, still have a bit more cleaning to do under the car and then the heads. Thanks to bobdmac for keeping me company, that was a lot of fun including an unexpected parts exchange between fellow DIYers

Last edited by Flug540; 03-07-2011 at 10:12 AM.
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  #112  
Old 03-07-2011, 09:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by franka View Post
Alex...

There is another picture of 30 degree, back-cut valves, intake and exhaust, in the above mentioned Engine Masters, Spring 2011, Volume 14, number 1, issue, page 80. This is the same issue that is on the rag racks now. The picture is part of a 6 page article on porting heads that I just now read.

Back-cutting is a standard performance method that I personally would do to any engine that I had apart. The OEMS don't do it because it requires a second set-up and the doubling of the valve's cutting time after cutting the intial valve seat.
Thanks, franka, I'll see if I can find it.
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  #113  
Old 03-07-2011, 01:59 PM
bobdmac bobdmac is offline
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Well, yesterday I took Alex540 up on his offer to stop by and check out his project. When I arrived, the garage door was open, and I saw this:




That's right guys, all of us messing around with jackstands and ramps can eat our hearts out. He has a damn lift in his garage.

Here are the heads he's removed, awaiting a decision on whether to send them off to be ported and polished.



Current state of the engine bay:



Cabinet for the parts he's removed:



Side project--instrument cluster display:



Why I wouldn't try this myself:



Something else I'd never seen before--the inside of a broken air conditioning compressor, with a broken spring valve:
Note the broken tab that's out of kilter in the lower left-hand corner. It had broken completely and was rattling around inside the compressor.



Alex is a great guy. We talked a lot, drank some beer, had some blini and pistachio nuts, tea, and I basically kept him from getting anything accomplished the entire afternoon.
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  #114  
Old 03-07-2011, 06:57 PM
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A day well spent :-)
Everything very clean.....and so orderly! Actually, frighteningly orderly :-)
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  #115  
Old 03-07-2011, 09:02 PM
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Thanks guys for the kind words! That was really a fun day, thanks Bob for dropping by!

Received my valve covers today. It's hard to believe that these are the same covers:
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  #116  
Old 03-07-2011, 09:12 PM
bobdmac bobdmac is offline
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Nice, Alex. I like the black crinkle finish. Takes me back to the 60's, when Ferrari valve covers were finished like that.
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  #117  
Old 03-08-2011, 05:34 AM
Steve D Steve D is offline
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I did mine last summer in black crinkle finish. To me they look great, especially on a black car.

Steve D
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  #118  
Old 03-08-2011, 07:44 AM
Pappa Bear Pappa Bear is offline
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this thread is fascinating. I just got the parts for my valley pan job last week and I am waiting for a nice day to do the job. i started reading this thread and thought i would be a good idea to check my compression too but after seeing what you are going through i think i will pass, its my only car and i can be down for months on end. either way i learned quite a lot from this! thanks!
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  #119  
Old 03-08-2011, 11:01 AM
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I've been planning this for almost a year, but never expected to go this deep. But it's hard to stop once you go deeper and you see issues "just a couple of bolts away" .

If you are going to have your valve covers off, I'd say at least replace your upper timing cover gaskets. Mine were so hard, they felt like plastic and broke off in tiny pieces when I removed them. The right side was already leaking, which I did not see before.
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  #120  
Old 03-08-2011, 11:03 AM
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Flug540 Flug540 is online now
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I did mine last summer in black crinkle finish. To me they look great, especially on a black car.

Steve D
They do look good
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  #121  
Old 03-08-2011, 11:10 AM
bobdmac bobdmac is offline
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I did mine last summer in black crinkle finish. To me they look great, especially on a black car.

Steve D
i agree, Steve. Those look good with the black spark plug covers (or whatever they're called). Now all you need is some nice, shiny stainless bolts to go around the valve covers.
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  #122  
Old 03-08-2011, 04:03 PM
Pappa Bear Pappa Bear is offline
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Originally Posted by 540alex View Post
I've been planning this for almost a year, but never expected to go this deep. But it's hard to stop once you go deeper and you see issues "just a couple of bolts away" .

If you are going to have your valve covers off, I'd say at least replace your upper timing cover gaskets. Mine were so hard, they felt like plastic and broke off in tiny pieces when I removed them. The right side was already leaking, which I did not see before.
hmm, not a bad idea, of course it is "just a couple of bolts away. how long do you think this would tack on? but also, when i start digging that deep it has me thinking of replacing those ohh so brittle chain rails...
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  #123  
Old 03-08-2011, 04:19 PM
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Flug540 Flug540 is online now
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hmm, not a bad idea, of course it is "just a couple of bolts away. how long do you think this would tack on? but also, when i start digging that deep it has me thinking of replacing those ohh so brittle chain rails...
After you get your valve covers off, the upper timing covers are really easy to get to and won't take much time at all. The chain guide rails of course is a different story. How many miles do you have on the car? I have about 80k and my rails still look good, so I'm leaving them.
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  #124  
Old 03-08-2011, 04:28 PM
Pappa Bear Pappa Bear is offline
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152K, so they are of some worry, but like you said, its a much bigger job then. I dont think i am ready/equipped for that one. I will go ahead and get the upper timing covers though.
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  #125  
Old 03-08-2011, 04:49 PM
bobdmac bobdmac is offline
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By the way, Alex. Did you see these torque settings? On page 30 (section 11-20) there are settings for the "V-ribbed belt with tension and deflection element," which looks like what we were discussing on Sunday. For the "idler lever to alternator bracket" it lists 90 newton-meters. I still haven't found the one for the air-conditioning belt tensioner, but it should be comparable.
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