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E39 (1997 - 2003)
The BMW 5-Series (E39 chassis) was introduced in the United States as a 1997 model year car and lasted until the 2004 when the E60 chassis was released. The United States saw several variations including the 525i, 528i, 530i and 540i. -- View the E39 Wiki

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  #126  
Old 03-08-2011, 04:59 PM
franka franka is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobdmac View Post
By the way, Alex. Did you see these torque settings? On page 30 (section 11-20) there are settings for the "V-ribbed belt with tension and deflection element," which looks like what we were discussing on Sunday. For the "idler lever to alternator bracket" it lists 90 newton-meters. I still haven't found the one for the air-conditioning belt tensioner, but it should be comparable.
I would be careful of "should be" on any torque rating, even if its the same size fastener.

I get your point and agree with you but only as a last resort method. And only if identical size.
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  #127  
Old 03-08-2011, 05:03 PM
bobdmac bobdmac is offline
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Agreed. It's still a guess, but at least a more educated one.
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  #128  
Old 03-08-2011, 06:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobdmac View Post
By the way, Alex. Did you see these torque settings? On page 30 (section 11-20) there are settings for the "V-ribbed belt with tension and deflection element," which looks like what we were discussing on Sunday. For the "idler lever to alternator bracket" it lists 90 newton-meters. I still haven't found the one for the air-conditioning belt tensioner, but it should be comparable.
Thanks for looking this up, I have not seen this document. The one that sounds like what I'm looking for by the description is "Screw plug for bearing pin", but it's listed for M51/M41 engines, so I'm not sure it's compatible. I've attached the only page that I've found in TIS related to the tensioner. The bolt in question is #2 in the first picture. On the bottom it talks about torque values for bolts #3, but does not mention #2 from the first picture. I've just checked and all three bolts are the same M8 thread, so the specified values *might* apply to all three. What do you guys think?

BTW, I only removed the alternator belt tensioner, A/C tensioner wasn't on the way.
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  #129  
Old 03-08-2011, 06:25 PM
bobdmac bobdmac is offline
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At the beginning of the PDF that I sent you, it lists various torque settings for various sized bolts. So I'm guessing that absent any other specific directions, those settings should be good.
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  #130  
Old 03-08-2011, 06:35 PM
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Probably. So far there are two alternatives. One to follow TIS with 22 Nm torque for all, or follow the generic torque table, which specifies 24 Nm for M8 8.8. Both are pretty close, maybe I'll go for 23 Nm if nothing better turns up.
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  #131  
Old 03-08-2011, 06:41 PM
bobdmac bobdmac is offline
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My thought as well.
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  #132  
Old 03-14-2011, 10:35 AM
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I've made nice progress since last time I posted, I'll put some pictures up later. One thing I now know for sure is that someone was there before me... The first piece of evidence I've found was the cut rubber boot on top of the knock sensor plug (so now I'm looking for a replacement one), why would somebody do that??? Next I've found that one of the little clips on the fuel injectors that drive everybody mad was missing. Well guess what... I've found it yesterday inside the driver side head It was stuck in one of the oil passages, just think of what could happen if it went somewhere else.
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  #133  
Old 03-14-2011, 11:21 AM
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Wow. The previous owner is probably still puzzled about where that clip could have gone. I have a hard time imagining how it got into an oil passage. I'm looking forward to the photos. Aside from the clip, any unusual problems yet?
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  #134  
Old 03-14-2011, 01:03 PM
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That's easy, it was dropped in while the valve cover was off and never found. Maybe it did run around the head before it finally got stuck in that oil passage.

Aside from that I've found that valve contact surfaces are not very smooth, so I think I will benefit from lapping the valves. Also I didn't like how a couple of vacuum hoses looked, so I'm going to replace them as well.

Also I took apart my ICV and cleaned it thoroughly, it was pretty dirty and didn't move very well. It's now shiny and free moving inside; I'm hoping that this was the cause of loss of power from time to time.

I've found a good machine shop in my neighborhood and will bring my heads and valves over to them toward the end of the week. Over the phone the guy told me they would charge $3-$4 per valve to back cut them. I'll also show them the heads for assessment, maybe I'll have them do more stiff to it.

Last edited by Flug540; 03-14-2011 at 01:06 PM.
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  #135  
Old 03-14-2011, 01:10 PM
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Sounds good Alex. Are you going to send the heads off for a little "extra attention," or are you just going to lap the valves and put things back together?
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  #136  
Old 03-14-2011, 01:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobdmac View Post
Sounds good Alex. Are you going to send the heads off for a little "extra attention," or are you just going to lap the valves and put things back together?
I'm a bit behind my plan, which was to take the heads apart the past weekend, have them cleaned and start lapping the valves. But I ended up having to do other things most of Sunday, so I only got one head apart, the other is still queued on the bench I'll try to do as much as possible after work this week and when I'm ready I'll bring it all to the machine shop with the main objective to have them look at it and listen to what they'll have to say, possibly back cut the valves and whatever else they will suggest that will make sense.
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  #137  
Old 03-14-2011, 05:07 PM
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Glad to hear things are progressing :-)
Regarding your occasional power lack, did you read the codes? It's that long since this thread started I've forgotten :-) I had occasional power losses over 2500 rpm, or so, when my cam postition sensor was going down. That flagged a fault though.
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  #138  
Old 03-14-2011, 05:12 PM
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I replaced the cam position sensor not that long ago, it was throwing errors and triggered CEL. However that occasional lack of power would come and go even after the replacement.
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  #139  
Old 03-14-2011, 05:17 PM
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Hmm, the replacement was OEM? Cheaper ones have a nasty habit of extremely premature failure. Just an idea.
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  #140  
Old 03-14-2011, 05:29 PM
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Yes, it was an OEM replacement, I was actually counting on it, but oh well... Other then CEL I did not notice any difference.

I read that one of the reasons these cars have power loss issues is because of ICV being dirty and getting stuck at times.
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  #141  
Old 03-14-2011, 05:29 PM
bobdmac bobdmac is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 540alex View Post
I'm a bit behind my plan, which was to take the heads apart the past weekend, have them cleaned and start lapping the valves. But I ended up having to do other things most of Sunday, so I only got one head apart, the other is still queued on the bench I'll try to do as much as possible after work this week and when I'm ready I'll bring it all to the machine shop with the main objective to have them look at it and listen to what they'll have to say, possibly back cut the valves and whatever else they will suggest that will make sense.
Alex, I just checked with my shop, Bavarian Professionals, in Berkeley. Michael there recommended Tim Morgan, of Morgan's Marine & Machine, in Walnut Creek, (925) 939-7346. They say he's the real deal and recommend that you go to his shop to look around at the engines he's working on. He said that he's seen Morgan working on a $5,000,000 Ferarri engine, for what that's worth. They've had him back cut valves for them, and they say he's second to none when it comes to head work.

Michael said that Morgan is a straightforward, look-you-in-the eye sort, who is easy to deal with and is a genuine enthusiast.
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  #142  
Old 03-14-2011, 05:34 PM
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Thanks, Bob! I'll check them out.
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  #143  
Old 03-14-2011, 09:03 PM
franka franka is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobdmac View Post
Alex, I just checked with my shop, Bavarian Professionals, in Berkeley. Michael there recommended Tim Morgan, of Morgan's Marine & Machine, in Walnut Creek, (925) 939-7346. They say he's the real deal and recommend that you go to his shop to look around at the engines he's working on. He said that he's seen Morgan working on a $5,000,000 Ferarri engine, for what that's worth. They've had him back cut valves for them, and they say he's second to none when it comes to head work.

Michael said that Morgan is a straightforward, look-you-in-the eye sort, who is easy to deal with and is a genuine enthusiast.
Sounds like the place to go. Skim cut the heads to clean them up or take a bit more off.

Does anyone offer thinner and/or thicker head gaskets for our V8s?
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  #144  
Old 03-24-2011, 01:31 AM
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Have you skinned any knuckles yet? :-) Have the blisters on your hands healed?
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  #145  
Old 03-28-2011, 10:49 PM
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Thanks for checking on me I still have all my knuckles in one piece (maybe I'm not at it hard enough? ) I don't have much time available so it is progressing kinda slow now, but it is progressing nevertheless. I have several projects going on with the car at the same time and I'm trying to make progress with all of them. Attached are some pictures to keep it interesting.

I called three respectable shops in the area for my heads, one of them being Morgan's Machine & Speed recommended by Bob. Not that I have a lot of experience talking to shops, but I was VERY impressed by Tim and decided to take my heads to them.

I was originally going to lap the valves myself, but there was a problem. The valves had a somewhat rough surface so that the lapper tool just wouldn't stick at all to them. They would have to be cleaned first at a machine shop so I figured I'll just have them reseat the valves at the same time.

I brought the heads to Morgan's last Saturday. They will clean them, resurface the gasket surface, reseat the valves, check the springs, flow test the heads and possibly do port adjustments if needed. The estimate is $450 for the job.

Tim told me that the machines they use are so precise and efficient that when they are finished reseating, the valves would seal 100% even with no springs. He also said that if I were to take the reseated valves and lap them for 8 hours with their best compound using oil in the mixture then they would start leaking. He also said that these valves do not need backcutting due to their shape and the head ports are very efficient from the factory.

I should get the heads back some time this week, probably on Saturday, I'll post some pictures when I have them back. Other then that, I'm pretty much ready for reassembly minus some parts that are in the mail and minus some special tools that are in the making.
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  #146  
Old 03-28-2011, 10:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by franka View Post
Does anyone offer thinner and/or thicker head gaskets for our V8s?
There are thicker OEM gaskets available.
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  #147  
Old 03-28-2011, 11:21 PM
bobdmac bobdmac is offline
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Hey, Alex, that's great news. You have been busy, haven't you? It's good to see you've put the lift to good use. Frankly, I'm jealous as hell of your set-up there. The work is looking great, and you weren't kidding when you said you liked to clean things.

Interesting that the machine shop actually turned down a chance to make more money by discouraging you from back cutting the valves, and I'm curious how they resurface the valves to get them to seal so well.
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  #148  
Old 03-29-2011, 04:47 AM
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Thanks for the update! Man, that's cleeeeeeeeeeeeeean! You won't want to put the heads back on, once you've seen them! :-)
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  #149  
Old 03-30-2011, 02:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Quackers View Post
Thanks for the update! Man, that's cleeeeeeeeeeeeeean! You won't want to put the heads back on, once you've seen them! :-)
Thanks! I was promised those heads will be spotless after they are done with them. I pre-cleaned them before I dropped them off and they already looked nice except for the exhaust valve/port area which is very hard to clean. And after I see them done and professionally cleaned, the only thing I'll want to do is to frame them and hang somewhere in the bedroom , but I don't think that will be approved .

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobdmac View Post
It's good to see you've put the lift to good use. Frankly, I'm jealous as hell of your set-up there.
If you want to stop by for some maintenance, I'm sure something could be arranged I only need to finish my project so I could move my car.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quackers View Post
Interesting that the machine shop actually turned down a chance to make more money by discouraging you from back cutting the valves, and I'm curious how they resurface the valves to get them to seal so well.
These guys have been in this business for decades, they heavily invest in modern equipment. For example many shops employ milling machines for head resurfacing. The process introduces some roughness to the surface that then has to be polished off. At Morgan's they use a different machine that uses diamond cutting technology that is more precise and does not need polishing afterward. For the valve seat resurfacing they use a machine that has heavy moving parts to ensure constant speed with no flex and constant cutting angle.

They work on a lot of Ferraris, BMWs, Hondas, many dealerships use them if their customer wants something done on the engine, also many racing teams do their performance tuning in their shop.

And indeed, I liked the fact that instead of going ahead with what I was suggesting, Tim said that the valves do not need any backcutting and the intake ports are over-efficient from the factory and the only thing that *maybe* could be done is enhance the angle in the exhaust ports, which he was going to flow test to determine what could be done there.
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  #150  
Old 04-06-2011, 09:09 PM
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For the cross-link record, today an interesting set of compression tests were reported where the OP asked what's a 'normal' reading:
- E39 (1997 - 2003) > Compression Test Results

Quote:
Originally Posted by devoulley View Post
Tonight I performed a dry compression test and received some wild results.
1-159
2-189
3-190
4-161
5-209
6-230
7-179
8-179
I have been doing some research and I have yet to find any results that compare to these. I don't want to start jumping to conclussions so I thought I would start here and get some feedback. Please.
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