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E39 (1997 - 2003)
The BMW 5-Series (E39 chassis) was introduced in the United States as a 1997 model year car and lasted until the 2004 when the E60 chassis was released. The United States saw several variations including the 525i, 528i, 530i and 540i. -- View the E39 Wiki

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  #176  
Old 04-22-2011, 08:47 PM
bobdmac bobdmac is offline
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Yeah, Alex. What's up? Have your been able to spend any quality time with the patient?





Edit: Fixed typo
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  #177  
Old 04-22-2011, 09:39 PM
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I have some news to share, but as not as much as I hoped I'd have. Last weekend I had to work and only had time to make the cam timing tool. Here's what I came up with:
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  #178  
Old 04-22-2011, 09:50 PM
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Also, last weekend I realized that I'm missing some parts. The shop that worked on my heads took the valve stem seals off the heads, I checked them out last weekend and did not feel that they should go back, so they are on order now. I used to order parts from Tischer and someone hinted to me that I was being ripped off there and suggested to check out bmwmercedesparts.com. Their prices are significantly better then those at Tischer, but they are also slower...

Since I'm waiting for the valve stem seals, I can't really proceed with the heads for now, so the plan for this weekend is to install valley pan cover and put back together my A/C system (replace the dryer, blow the lines, insall A/C compressor, connect the lines and fill compressor with oil). I'll have to charge the system with refrigerant when the engine is finished.

Here are some head pictures:
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  #179  
Old 04-22-2011, 10:14 PM
bobdmac bobdmac is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 540alex View Post
Also, last weekend I realized that I'm missing some parts. The shop that worked on my heads took the valve stem seals off the heads, I checked them out last weekend and did not feel that they should go back, so they are on order now. I used to order parts from Tischer and someone hinted to me that I was being ripped off there and suggested to check out bmwmercedesparts.com. Their prices are significantly better then those at Tischer, but they are also slower...

Since I'm waiting for the valve stem seals, I can't really proceed with the heads for now, so the plan for this weekend is to install valley pan cover and put back together my A/C system (replace the dryer, blow the lines, insall A/C compressor, connect the lines and fill compressor with oil). I'll have to charge the system with refrigerant when the engine is finished.
Nice job with the cam lock. Looks like it should work great. So you just have the cams laid in there for illustration purposes, right? You should post a template, if you can, of the tool for other pre-VANOS V-8 owners.

Those photos qualify as gearhead p-o-r-n (censor blocks normal spelling) . Sorry to hear about the replacement parts, but I hope they arrive by the time you finish with the air conditioning.
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  #180  
Old 04-22-2011, 10:39 PM
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Thanks, Bob. Yes, the cams are there only to support the tool. Attached is a photo that was my inspiration found on this DIY BMW tool thread. Although I took measurements from my heads/cams, the measurements in the book are right on the money for M62.
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  #181  
Old 04-23-2011, 12:02 AM
memoal23 memoal23 is offline
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I've Ben reading this thread for days and still interested...
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  #182  
Old 04-23-2011, 05:35 AM
franka franka is offline
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The valves have been back cut. You can see it in the pictures.

It also looks like the seats have had a blending cut too. Like the reverse of a back cut.

Terrific pictures.
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  #183  
Old 04-23-2011, 06:15 AM
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Frank, if the valves have in fact been back-cut, it was done by the factory. In response to my specific question about it, Morgan said he didn't do it, "because of the way the factory shaped the valves." As for the valve seats, he said he took a series cuts working back from the seat that in effect radiused the ports, but in somewhat cruder increments.
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  #184  
Old 04-23-2011, 07:04 AM
franka franka is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobdmac View Post
Frank, if the valves have in fact been back-cut, it was done by the factory. In response to my specific question about it, Morgan said he didn't do it, "because of the way the factory shaped the valves." As for the valve seats, he said he took a series cuts working back from the seat that in effect radiused the ports, but in somewhat cruder increments.
Yeah I know what he said, and it wasn't that they were already back cut.

IMHO I think he changed his mind. But then I don't know if OEM are back cut or not as per my earlier posts on the subject and why OEMs in general do not back cut due to the costs. I explained the economics previously

As I recall he dismissed any valve and seat tricks and was only going to open the port some.
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Last edited by franka; 04-23-2011 at 07:07 AM.
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  #185  
Old 04-23-2011, 07:17 AM
bobdmac bobdmac is offline
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...IMHO I think he changed his mind. But then I don't know if OEM are back cut or not as per my earlier posts on the subject and why OEMs in general do not back cut due to the costs. I explained the economics previously
Hah, Frank this reminds me of one of my favorite lines from Mythbusters, when Adam Savage tells Jamie, "I reject your reality and substitute my own." I don't know how Morgan would have changed his mind. The valves were already done when I asked him about it. He went to great pains to show us everything he did. Why would he tell us he didn't do something if he in fact did it?

As for the economics, Morgan said he was impressed with the amount of work BMW put into their heads. He was quite complimentary and said it was far more than he saw with most manufacturers.
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  #186  
Old 04-23-2011, 07:40 AM
franka franka is offline
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Maybe someone has or can get an OEM valve and let us know if it is back cut. Maybe Alex can tell us. Maybe he has pictures taken before the head work.

Still, the bottom line is that the valves are back cut. Thus proving the point, one way or another, that back cutting is the way to go.
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  #187  
Old 04-23-2011, 08:00 AM
franka franka is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobdmac View Post
The valves were already done when I asked him about it. He went to great pains to show us everything he did. Why would he tell us he didn't do something if he in fact did it?
I don't know and I can't answer your question as I wasn't there. On the other hand you were there, heard what he said, saw the parts, were free to ask questions and so forth.

Why would he negate back cutting if they were already back cut? Maybe what he meant was that he wasn't going to back cut them again, as they already were back cut. I'm just surmising here.

Like I said, maybe someone will shed a bit of light on an OEM valve and then we will know who did the back cutting.
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  #188  
Old 04-23-2011, 08:01 AM
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Nice tool Alex! Those cams aren't going anywhere :-)
Looking really good there. New valve stem seals is the way to go, even if they delay things a little.
I can't wait to see how she runs :-)
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  #189  
Old 04-24-2011, 07:33 PM
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Thanks guys! I actually started having dreams of me driving her with miscellaneous problems mixed in that I think about in reality.

Regarding backcutting, unfortunately I did not take any photos before, I did take a video of me taking the thing apart, but the best frame that I've found of the back of a valve is fuzzy, I'm attaching it anyway. I believe no backcutting was done and the valves are this way from the factory. I looked at valves in their present condition and I can see that the only area touched is the three angle cut.

No mechanical progress this weekend, but I finally finished my cluster, which was really exciting. For the first time ever I finally see all pixels come to life! It was really bad before, I could not read any messages or temperature and semi-guess the millage. Really happy to see that fixed.



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  #190  
Old 04-24-2011, 11:48 PM
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  #191  
Old 04-25-2011, 01:30 PM
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Thanks for the interest and enjoy the show I sure am enjoying it.

It's slightly over a week since I placed the order for the valve seals and the order status still hasn't changed... I just spoke with them on the phone and the guy said that they are swamped with orders and they give priority to orders that the customers specifically called and asked about. So now that I called and asked about mine, it will be given the extra attention needed and with expedited shipping (+10% $$$) I should have the parts by the coming weekend. So hopefully I'll be able to finish the heads on the weekend instead of coming up with something else less important like replacing the rear window seal or replacing the steering wheel, for which I have the parts waiting.
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  #192  
Old 04-25-2011, 02:32 PM
bobdmac bobdmac is offline
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...I just spoke with them on the phone and the guy said that they are swamped with orders and they give priority to orders that the customers specifically called and asked about. So now that I called and asked about mine, it will be given the extra attention needed and with expedited shipping (+10% $$$) I should have the parts by the coming weekend.
Wow, what a system. Maybe they should hire more people or get some temporary help instead of waiting for their customers to complain.

Anyway, great job with the instrument cluster. I can't believe you got all those thread-like wires back where they belong. What the heck did you have it hooked up to when you were testing it?
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  #193  
Old 04-25-2011, 02:40 PM
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Wow, what a system. Maybe they should hire more people or get some temporary help instead of waiting for their customers to complain.

Anyway, great job with the instrument cluster. I can't believe you got all those thread-like wires back where they belong. What the heck did you have it hooked up to when you were testing it?
I know, some system... I asked what's the fastest way to get the parts in the future and he said order online and then call to let them know you need the parts NOW!

The cluster is hooked up to a power supply, it needs several grounds an even more +12V hooked up to its two connectors in order for it to run. I like the test with all the colorful lights and needles moving Attached is the schematics while we are on the subject. I know it's a bit weird to post it here, but oh well...
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  #194  
Old 04-25-2011, 02:43 PM
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...I can't believe you got all those thread-like wires back where they belong...
I know, I still can't believe either, still very happy about that. Took a while to figure out how to do it properly, but now I think I'd be able to pull it off in a couple of weekends.
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  #195  
Old 04-25-2011, 04:34 PM
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Originally Posted by 540alex View Post

Regarding backcutting, unfortunately I did not take any photos before, I did take a video of me taking the thing apart, but the best frame that I've found of the back of a valve is fuzzy, I'm attaching it anyway. I believe no backcutting was done and the valves are this way from the factory. I looked at valves in their present condition and I can see that the only area touched is the three angle cut.
Would you please post a good picture of the 'three angle cut' you are refering to? Thanks.
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  #196  
Old 04-26-2011, 09:00 AM
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Would you please post a good picture of the 'three angle cut' you are refering to? Thanks.
What I was referring to is the seat contact area of the valves, you can see in the pictures above that it's the only area that was worked on.

You, however, said earlier that you can see from the pictures that the valves have been backcut, could you edit and post the picture to show the area where you think you see it has been backcut? I'm just curious as I'm learning as I go through this.
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  #197  
Old 04-26-2011, 07:32 PM
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Originally Posted by 540alex View Post
What I was referring to is the seat contact area of the valves, you can see in the pictures above that it's the only area that was worked on.

You, however, said earlier that you can see from the pictures that the valves have been backcut, could you edit and post the picture to show the area where you think you see it has been backcut? I'm just curious as I'm learning as I go through this.

Alex, please see your post number 178, the one with all the pictures. The 3rd picture down shows more than one cut surface on the head of the valves. Stock valves have only one cut surface, the seat.
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  #198  
Old 04-28-2011, 08:11 AM
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Sorry if get in here without knocking at the door...
Alex,
Excuse me if I ask too much,

When you get there, Could you please take a picture with the valve tool and the install of the stem seals. Thanks.
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  #199  
Old 04-28-2011, 09:32 AM
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Sorry if get in here without knocking at the door...
Alex,
Excuse me if I ask too much,

When you get there, Could you please take a picture with the valve tool and the install of the stem seals. Thanks.
Door? What door? Everything's wide open

Which tool do you mean? The spring compressor or the valve seal 'homing' device (11 1 200)? Sure, I'll take a photo of both. I have the spring compressor made and found just the right raw materials in the garage to make the valve seal homing tool.

Last edited by Flug540; 04-28-2011 at 09:34 AM.
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  #200  
Old 04-28-2011, 11:49 AM
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Alex, please see your post number 178, the one with all the pictures. The 3rd picture down shows more than one cut surface on the head of the valves. Stock valves have only one cut surface, the seat.
Isn't this what's called the three-angle valve job?

I'm pretty sure that the area beyond #3 is the original valve shape and hasn't been worked on.
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