**Consolidated RFT Failures/Issues Thread**

Originally Posted by Emilner

Any reason you went with the all seasons over the max summers? I am thinking of tossing in the towel on the RFT's but would then do max summers and get seperate snows/wheels for the winter.

i could have done the winter/summer split but i live in manhattan and storing tires in my apt is out of the question. and my inlaws gave me a funny look when i put my old dunlop wintersports in their garage last year (for my e60).

Originally Posted by tlm999

Are these tire problems on all F10's or just those with 19" wheels? I have a 535 non-sport with 18's coming off the boat next week. What tires should I expect it to have and should I definitely expect problems? How much does the dealer soak you for the insurance; equivalent of one tire/wheel or more?

Let's put it this way. If you had selected the 528i with the 17 inch rims and R17 tires, you probably would have had little or no problems at all (the R17 tires are not low profile). Those who have selected the 535i with the 18 inch rims and R18 tires (like myself), will probably be more at risk than those with the 17 inch rims and R17 tires (the R18 tires are low profile). Similarly, those with the 19 inch rims and the R19 tires (they are low profile) will probably have even more problems. The reason is this: As you increase the size of the rim, you decrease the size of the tire's side wall. These "low profile" tires, which everybody thinks look & handle great (including myself) just do not hold up well in normal daily driving, particularly when there is bad weather or bad road conditions. BMW now acknowledges the problem (they just started to do so in the last year) with the low profile tires and now they offer the BMW tire & rim insurance in response to the admission. If you go to the BMW USA site, they now provide warnings in connection with the use of low profile tires. No such warnings are provided in connection with the use of RF tires. IMO, if one performed a study on the problems with tires now being complained of, you would find that the beginnings of these problems coincides with the beginning of the use of low profile tires. I believe that the insurance is worth the money, at least for me it is. I garage my F10 in NJ where we have bad roads and bad winters. The likelihood of a problem is greater here (I just had a tire failure). Even if the insurance was never used, it is worth it for me because it simply provides peace of mind and for me is a cost of doing business. If you want to maximize the avoidance of the problems being complained of, you should switch to non low profile tires, i.e., the 17 inch rims with the R17 tires. I know that many will disagree with what I have said, but I feel that I am speaking from both knowledge and experience. I had a problem with a 2008 Jaguar that had 18 inch rims and R18 tires. In short I learned the hard way. I researched the problems associated with low profile tires after leasing the vehicle rather than before and it cost me a great deal of money (switching to 17 inch rims and R17 tires).

Originally Posted by CRMESQ

Let's put it this way. If you had selected the 528i with the 17 inch rims and R17 tires, you probably would have had little or no problems at all (the R17 tires are not low profile). Those who have selected the 535i with the 18 inch rims and R18 tires (like myself), will probably be more at risk than those with the 17 inch rims and R17 tires (the R18 tires are low profile). Similarly, those with the 19 inch rims and the R19 tires (they are low profile) will probably have even more problems. The reason is this: As you increase the size of the rim, you decrease the size of the tire's side wall. These "low profile" tires, which everybody thinks look & handle great (including myself) just do not hold up well in normal daily driving, particularly when there is bad weather or bad road conditions. BMW now acknowledges the problem (they just started to do so in the last year) with the low profile tires and now they offer the BMW tire & rim insurance in response to the admission. If you go to the BMW USA site, they now provide warnings in connection with the use of low profile tires. No such warnings are provided in connection with the use of RF tires. IMO, if one performed a study on the problems with tires now being complained of, you would find that the beginnings of these problems coincides with the beginning of the use of low profile tires. I believe that the insurance is worth the money, at least for me it is. I garage my F10 in NJ where we have bad roads and bad winters. The likelihood of a problem is greater here (I just had a tire failure). Even if the insurance was never used, it is worth it for me because it simply provides peace of mind and for me is a cost of doing business. If you want to maximize the avoidance of the problems being complained of, you should switch to non low profile tires, i.e., the 17 inch rims with the R17 tires. I know that many will disagree with what I have said, but I feel that I am speaking from both knowledge and experience. I had a problem with a 2008 Jaguar that had 18 inch rims and R18 tires. In short I learned the hard way. I researched the problems associated with low profile tires after leasing the vehicle rather than before and it cost me a great deal of money (switching to 17 inch rims and R17 tires).

granted that the lower the profile, the higher the chances of damaging your wheel or tire. NO ONE will fight you on that. but if APPLES to APPLES (ie 19inch RFT vs 19inch non-RFT) it is obvious that the RFT have a much higher % of fails/bubbles/damage than their non-RFT bretheren. they are simply not made as well as they should be. BMW should focus their attention on their suppliers.

Originally Posted by highyo

granted that the lower the profile, the higher the chances of damaging your wheel or tire. NO ONE will fight you on that. but if APPLES to APPLES (ie 19inch RFT vs 19inch non-RFT) it is obvious that the RFT have a much higher % of fails/bubbles/damage than their non-RFT bretheren. they are simply not made as well as they should be. BMW should focus their attention on their suppliers.

That could very well be true, but , I have four (4) brand new 18 inch Jaguar rims in storage (want to buy them?) because the R18 non RF tires (Conti Pro) just totally lost it and did not hold up once the winter weather hit. Then, I started researching this issue, including looking for articles on the internet and I also looked at low profile tires on other vehicles. My findings revealed that non RF tires just do not hold up and a great many of them develop the bubbles. I even found a website on the internet entitled, "the Jaguar bubble." If the RF low profile tires are in fact even worse than their non RF bretheren, we are all in for a heap of trouble and we should all have the BMW tire & rim insurance.

Originally Posted by CRMESQ

That could very well be true, but , I have four (4) brand new 18 inch Jaguar rims in storage (want to buy them?) because the R18 non RF tires (Conti Pro) just totally lost it and did not hold up once the winter weather hit. Then, I started researching this issue, including looking for articles on the internet and I also looked at low profile tires on other vehicles. My findings revealed that non RF tires just do not hold up and a great many of them develop the bubbles. I even found a website on the internet entitled, "the Jaguar bubble." If the RF low profile tires are in fact even worse than their non RF bretheren, we are all in for a heap of trouble and we should all have the BMW tire & rim insurance.

Anyone know how much is "BMW Tire & Wheel Protection" for F10 535ix non-sport ? Any recent $$ numbers paid?

thx mike

Talked to the service advisor the other day while getting the last oil change for my E39. Asked him what the biggest F10 problem was so far. His answer - "tires". The 17" and 18" are no problem according to him. The 19" are the problem.

According to my CA, the cost for the 5 year tire and rim insurance is $595 and he advises that I get it. At this point I don't know the insurance details or even if it's BMW or third party. I'll know more when I sign the papers this Friday for PC delivery in two weeks.

Is it possible to order a 535xi and downgrade to 17s ? When I ordered the E60 535xi, the 17s were standard and you had to upgrade to 18. Now it's either 18 or 19 low-profile only. I had 18s on two Audis and knew how fragile they can be (in NY, NJ area), and chose not to upgrade to 18s at the time. Would downgrading to 17s seem ridiculous?

Originally Posted by RangerWalker

Is it possible to order a 535xi and downgrade to 17s ? When I ordered the E60 535xi, the 17s were standard and you had to upgrade to 18. Now it's either 18 or 19 low-profile only. I had 18s on two Audis and knew how fragile they can be (in NY, NJ area), and chose not to upgrade to 18s at the time. Would downgrading to 17s seem ridiculous?

Good chance 17's would not clear the brakes. Just guessing - I have no data (but that seems to be true of 90% of all 'Fest posts).

Originally Posted by RangerWalker

Is it possible to order a 535xi and downgrade to 17s ? When I ordered the E60 535xi, the 17s were standard and you had to upgrade to 18. Now it's either 18 or 19 low-profile only. I had 18s on two Audis and knew how fragile they can be (in NY, NJ area), and chose not to upgrade to 18s at the time. Would downgrading to 17s seem ridiculous?

Downgrading to R17 tires is not ridiculous (I did the same with my Jaguar) because you know the problem with low profile tires and want to avoid it. IMO the switch to making low profile tires standard equipment was a scandalous move because most of the public has no idea what they are bargaining for when they purchase a car with low profile tires.

Snowed again last night. Pot holes appearing everywhere. Multiple tire failures. Shortage of run flat tires. Cars in the shop for days. I can't take it any more. I need a vacation!!! The 535 stays in the garage. I am driving my wife's Toyota. I can't wait until March. How does Phillies baseball spring training in Florida sound? See you there.

Originally Posted by silver535xi

Snowed again last night. Pot holes appearing everywhere. Multiple tire failures. Shortage of run flat tires. Cars in the shop for days. I can't take it any more. I need a vacation!!! The 535 stays in the garage. I am driving my wife's Toyota. I can't wait until March. How does Phillies baseball spring training in Florida sound? See you there.

Florida sounds great to me. I flew down to southeast FL last Friday from NJ and it has been 80 degrees + everyday (in Fl, not NJ). I prefer the Yankee's spring training camp, but they are just too far away since George moved them to the Tampa area. I miss my Alpine White F10, which is back in NJ. At least the F10 has some company. Our Alpine White X5 is keeping the F10 company in the garage while we are away. Since we installed an insulated garage door a few years back, both the F10 & X5 are being kept warm and are awaiting our return.

Originally Posted by CRMESQ

Downgrading to R17 tires is not ridiculous (I did the same with my Jaguar) because you know the problem with low profile tires and want to avoid it. IMO the switch to making low profile tires standard equipment was a scandalous move because most of the public has no idea what they are bargaining for when they purchase a car with low profile tires.

yes but oh wow does it look great. we are slaves to fashion us 19 inchers

Originally Posted by highyo

yes but oh wow does it look great. we are slaves to fashion us 19 inchers

I agree. The 19 inch rims with R19 tires look great.

There is a simple solution to all of the run flat woes. Almost guaranteed to prevent all the 19 inch OEM tire failures from winter potholes. Buy a second set of 18 inch rims with 225/50 or 245/45 winter tires. The extra side wall height will prevent tire and rim damage for all but the very worst pot holes. The 245/45 18 winter tires I am running on my 550ix look a little under-sized, but I can live with it knowing I won't be replacing $500 rims and $300 tires every month or so. A few grand for winter rims and tires is not a bad investment on a $70k car

I am looking into doing just that- a second setup for winter and then going non-RFT with summer tires on my stock rims...

The beautiful thing about htis arrangement is that it really doesn't cost you much / anything in the long run.

If you own or lease your BMW for 2 years or more, it is almost certain that you will need to replace tires, at least once. And a set of RFT's will run you $1,500 or more when you factor in tax, shipping, mounting, balancing and TPMS sensor maintenance. If you live in snow country (which I guess includes Atlanta and Dallas these days), having a second set of RFT winter tires will cost you another $1,500, plus +/- $400/year for changeovers on your factory rims. Total cost over 3 years: $4,200.

For the same amount of money you can get:

• Dedicated winter tires on dedicated winter wheels; PLUS
• A decent set of non-RFT summer tires, mounted on your OE rims; PLUS,
• A spare tire, scissors jack, lug wrench and mobility kit.

When the non-RFT get worn down, slap the original RFT's back on. By then, the novelty of the car will have worn off, you will be looking forward to its replacement, and you won't mind the RFT's harsh ride as much. You trade the car in or return it at lease end with the RFT's. And you can probably sell your used winter rims on eBay.

The only negative is you have to store 2 sets of tires - the unmounted RFT's that you are saving for the future, plus the mounted tires that aren't currently on the car. But that shouldn't be a problem for most on this board (except for the one or two who don't own a home, and can't afford to rent a storage locker).

Originally Posted by quackbury

The only negative is you have to store 2 sets of tires - the unmounted RFT's that you are saving for the future, plus the mounted tires that aren't currently on the car. But that shouldn't be a problem for most on this board (except for the one or two who don't own a home, and can't afford to rent a storage locker).

one or two equals me i suppose. passive aggresive response number 649 from our resident bitter new englander. i think he's obsessed with me as he had a very nasty thing or two to say about my inlaws, my address, and my responses to him over a private message. he also informs me that he has a huge boat and keeps his tires at his summer house. not that i asked. keep on ballin homie! (i may or may not have responded to this PM by calling his wife fat)

anyway, i hate to admit it, but this is a resonable strategy. the risk of course is the one i am taking, which is being left out to dry with a mobility kit in a blow out situation, but I hope that AAA or some other service will be able to transport my car for at least a temporary fix. i'm naive when it comes to the ability of the mobile kit to fix nasty flats or blowouts.

and for those who aren't as rich as our bitter new englander friend, you can always do the all seasons and risk the big wheels in the bad weather. i for one am VERY satisfied with the michelin pilot a/s, which are rated to 45,000 miles!

Originally Posted by CRMESQ

That could very well be true, but , I have four (4) brand new 18 inch Jaguar rims in storage (want to buy them?) because the R18 non RF tires (Conti Pro) just totally lost it and did not hold up once the winter weather hit. Then, I started researching this issue, including looking for articles on the internet and I also looked at low profile tires on other vehicles. My findings revealed that non RF tires just do not hold up and a great many of them develop the bubbles. I even found a website on the internet entitled, "the Jaguar bubble." If the RF low profile tires are in fact even worse than their non RF bretheren, we are all in for a heap of trouble and we should all have the BMW tire & rim insurance.

ContiPros have issues with sidewall bubbling.

Guys, I've been part of the Volvo R culture for some 6 years. Most of the cars are quite heavy and running on 245/40-18's...low profile. And there is a warning.

The original PZero Rossos that came with the car are horrible. Guys who have switched out to other tires have had very little issues with sidewalls bubbling.

The low profile tires are certainly an issue, but the RFT's are even worse. In the end, for any given profile of tire, you're going to have good tires and bad tires. It appears that the OE Goodyear RFT's are bubble prone.

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

ContiPros have issues with sidewall bubbling.

Guys, I've been part of the Volvo R culture for some 6 years. Most of the cars are quite heavy and running on 245/40-18's...low profile. And there is a warning.

The original PZero Rossos that came with the car are horrible. Guys who have switched out to other tires have had very little issues with sidewalls bubbling.

The low profile tires are certainly an issue, but the RFT's are even worse. In the end, for any given profile of tire, you're going to have good tires and bad tires. It appears that the OE Goodyear RFT's are bubble prone.

bubble prone and i think still on back order. if i had not pulled my car out of bmw manhattan for the swap out, it would likely still be there.

Only 3 days w/ the car, and I got a side bubble while coming back from JFK.

I will go to BMW tomorrow to see if they have the tire... GY, by the way...

PL

Originally Posted by PHL

Only 3 days w/ the car, and I got a side bubble while coming back from JFK.

I will go to BMW tomorrow to see if they have the tire... GY, by the way...

PL

sucks. my SA said that the tires are starting to "trickle" in. it's likely my car would still be there if i didnt take it out

This is obviously a big problem since a lot of us are going through it. I am glad I got the tires insurance.
Maybe I should call the service department first to check if they do have the tires, so I don't waste my time going there.

Originally Posted by PHL

This is obviously a big problem since a lot of us are going through it. I am glad I got the tires insurance.
Maybe I should call the service department first to check if they do have the tires, so I don't waste my time going there.

that's a good idea, i did that and they said there were 2 left but i needed 3. by the time they had the third, the first 2 were out the door. the insurance is fine, but if you have an elongated period of time to get the switch, its not worth it.

I now have several bubbles in each of my front tires. 3 in one and 2 in the other. This is insane....

Originally Posted by Emilner

I now have several bubbles in each of my front tires. 3 in one and 2 in the other. This is insane....

Goodyear ls2?