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F10 / F11 (2011 - Current)
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  #1176  
Old 03-25-2012, 11:00 AM
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640GC 640GC is offline
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Which 5 series to purchase

Thanks for making me aware of the tire issue. If anyone is considering a 5 series purchase what should they order to avoid these issues?

What would be the possible combinations?

Gleaning from reading this thread:
528i (without x) 17" rims (run flat or non run flat tires) stock/aftermarket options?
535ix 18" rims (replace stock tires with higher sidewall non run flat tires at my expense, add low profile spare)

Going to do European delivery so a little worried about getting stranded somewhere. If I have a flat or bubbles in Germany or Italy, what are my options?

Also, this is going to be my wife's car so I need it to be safe and reliable. We drive long distances in Texas for the kids sporting events and I won't be with her and the kids she's carting around, most of the time. Right now it's a Toyota Land Cruiser.

Last edited by 640GC; 03-25-2012 at 11:58 AM.
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  #1177  
Old 03-25-2012, 02:53 PM
radarguy radarguy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aharding View Post
Thanks for making me aware of the tire issue. If anyone is considering a 5 series purchase what should they order to avoid these issues?

What would be the possible combinations?

Gleaning from reading this thread:
528i (without x) 17" rims (run flat or non run flat tires) stock/aftermarket options?
535ix 18" rims (replace stock tires with higher sidewall non run flat tires at my expense, add low profile spare)

Going to do European delivery so a little worried about getting stranded somewhere. If I have a flat or bubbles in Germany or Italy, what are my options?

Also, this is going to be my wife's car so I need it to be safe and reliable. We drive long distances in Texas for the kids sporting events and I won't be with her and the kids she's carting around, most of the time. Right now it's a Toyota Land Cruiser.
The simplest answer is to avoid any vehicle with 19" tires. This means avoid 535s or 550s with the sport suspension. More precisely avoid the X-drive version of these vehicles because that brings you a tire and suspension combination that includes the 19" Goodyear LS2 all-season tire that is so susceptible to bubbles and blowouts. There is no exact RFT replacement for the LS2, but you can purchase other RFT sizes or non-RFTs that reduce the failure problem. Of course using a non-RFT tire brings its own set of problems on a car with no spare tire compartment.

Just stick to the 17" or 18" tires and you'll be fine with your ED.
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  #1178  
Old 03-26-2012, 08:03 AM
Crmgr Crmgr is offline
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+1. I would also stay with the run-flats. Last thing you want is for your wife to be stuck with a flat and no spare. Most women, especially with kids in the car, are also not going to be fooling around with an inflator kit. Run-flats under most conditions will get her back home or to a nearest dealer or tire store. Given the choice, I would want my wife driving on a set of run-flats.

Also, remember that the 19" run-flat issue on the 535IX or even 535I is mostly occuring with owners in the snow belt, especially the NE. There have been a few problems with owners in Texas, but nothing that strikes me as being out of the ordinary.
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  #1179  
Old 03-26-2012, 08:09 PM
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640GC 640GC is offline
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Well that makes me feel better that it's mostly in the NE. I didn't catch that while reading.
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  #1180  
Old 03-27-2012, 04:21 PM
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eyesight1 eyesight1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aharding View Post
Well that makes me feel better that it's mostly in the NE. I didn't catch that while reading.
The fact that it is "mostly in the NE" is not an accurate portrayal of the issue. Goodyear is latching on to this saying it is the quality of the roads that cause the tire bubbles. However, it is really poor tire design that allows the bubbles to form when any pothole is encountered. So, a pothole in New Mexico will cause the same damage as one in New York.

Any tire that is intended to be driven on public paved roads should be able to withstand these pot holes. By isolating the issue to the North East deflects the issue to one of roads VS poor quality tires. So, my point is the fact that there are more of these road defects in the NE does not negate the fact that the tires do not withstand impacts they should be designed to withstand. BMWs with LS2 tires driving over the same holes in the SW or NE will have the same number of failures.
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  #1181  
Old 03-28-2012, 07:46 AM
Crmgr Crmgr is offline
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Agree there is an issue with the 19" LS2 and it should have been designed to withstand the worst case road scenario. Fact is however, most of the problems are happening to owners in the NE. Just look at the posts. I can't explain why some owners are going through multiple sets of tires in a matter of weeks whereas I have close to 11,000 miles on my M-Sport and have not had a single issue. Roads here in Ohio are certainly not made of glass and I've hit my share of potholes.

My opinion was specific to Texas. Odds are his wife will be driving over better roads then you or I drive over. I was just going with the odds. As it has been said before, any low profile tire, whether run-flat or non-run-flat will bubble or fail if you hit a big enough pothole. I just felt his wife would be better off sticking with run-flats. Had he been living in NY I would have recommended something different.
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  #1182  
Old 03-28-2012, 10:37 AM
radarguy radarguy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eyesight1 View Post
The fact that it is "mostly in the NE" is not an accurate portrayal of the issue. Goodyear is latching on to this saying it is the quality of the roads that cause the tire bubbles. However, it is really poor tire design that allows the bubbles to form when any pothole is encountered. So, a pothole in New Mexico will cause the same damage as one in New York.
I agree that road condition has something to do with it, but also consider that there are less X-drives in Texas which means fewer LS2 equipped cars. Out of my 8 failed 19" LS2s I can attribute only four to potholes. Another was a lowered sewer cover (2" or so) and I didn't feel, see or hear the other three.

I wouldn't blame the problem on Goodyear. Rather, BMW specified, tested and accepted a tire that is incompatible with the sport suspension and other characteristics of the car. Plain and simple BMW blew it. I would assume that BMW feels it is more cost effective to let things be rather than develop a new tire or suspension setup. Why they don't offer the much more reliable 18" tires as a no cost sport suspension option is beyond my comprehension. It too is probably a cost effective consideration that limits the number of options.
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  #1183  
Old 03-28-2012, 05:54 PM
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Originally Posted by radarguy View Post
Why they don't offer the much more reliable 18" tires as a no cost sport suspension option is beyond my comprehension. It too is probably a cost effective consideration that limits the number of options.
I see your point and agree about BMW having some responsibility. I still think GY also has equal responsibility.

RE the 18" wheel option I have tried my hardest to get BMW to give me 18" wheels and get GY to allow me to switch to the 18" tires. I get stonewalled and they just replace the LS2 with another at no charge.

I have made a plan to switch to non run flat Michelin All Weather when the tires are no longer free.
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  #1184  
Old 03-28-2012, 07:36 PM
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I think the story goes that the LS2 was designed by GoodYear only with the European market in mind. Seemingly BMW told GoodYear that is where the tires would be used exclusively, so they were designed with that in mind. Then BMW said, hey guys, about that LS2, we're going to need it for the US too. We seem to have forgot that the F10 will be sold there. Oh, you don't have enough production capacity and it will take you a while to ramp up? No problem, we'll just sell some wheel and tire insurance and hope for the best. BMW USA, located in pothole ridden NJ, probably was shaking their heads and prepared customer service to field the calls from angry owners.

It's good that the car rags have openly complained about these tires, as it gives us hope that they are being forced to develop a solution.

Everyone please make sure that you contact BMW directly about these problems. I recommend a letter. The more heat they receive, the more likely they are to act.
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  #1185  
Old 03-29-2012, 05:19 AM
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the biggest of all questions is how does any automaker select a tire in a specific size that is made by only one company?
and on top of that for quite some time that tire wasnt either available or readily available. ive since read here that has changed.
and what if the tire didnt have any problems. why should we be limited to only good years for the life of the car?

bmw chose a 1 tire size only because they felt that it would work best with the set up.
it didnt. had they done proper adequate testing, data would have revealed that.
if your gonna choose a tire that doesnt work,at least choose one that is made by more then one company in that size.
i say that because possibly the good year tire construction is the weak link.
they had to think this tire in this size was the one and only. it isnt.

the fact that they are staying with it long after it has been exposed as a problem,is inexcusable.
whats equally inexcusable is the only action they have taken to resolve it. they not only continue to sell insurance,but continue to increase the cost to where it is currantly at the $3,000. price in some areas.
insurance is for something that might happen. this is pretty much guaranteed to happen,and happen numerous times.

the answer or solution to a flawed product,is not the sale of insurance,unless of coarse you dont seek to solve the problem,but rather benefit from it financially.
the answer is bmw and good year engineers jointly go back to the drawing board,find out exactly what is the weak link,and take steps to modify with new and improved.
whether that is suspension,wheels or tires,or any combination that is something they need to identify and take the steps to correct.


how and why would bmw continue to allow some of their cars be taken out of service for something as simple as a tire?
my case, 3 trips to bmw and loss of my car for 3 days waiting for them to get an install a single tire. that should be 1 one visit one hour deal.
what if i were out of town. 2 or 3 nights in a hotel, plus expenses waiting 3 days for a tire?

bmw has put some of us in a very uncomfortable situation.
not where you want to be with any new car,ecspecially one this costly.
if you dont become a victim,you have the concern you might be.
often the perception is worse then the reality. what good is a car if you dont have confidence in it and peace of mind.

it appears bmw has given us a choice,and its not a good one.
use the car often and reduce the risk of a dead battery and the $600. they will attept to charge you to replace it.
or use the car less often and reduce the risk of tire damage,but increase the risk of battery damage.

choose your poison stranded away from home in your hi tech ultimate driving machine for a tire or a battery. its a lose,lose.
nobody can simply jump start you,and few if any will have your tire. how easier it would be to be able to go in any sears,costco, etc.
and spend $100. for a battery or $200. for a tire, and be on my way. instead we are dependant on bmw service for a simple tire or a battery.
3 days and 3 trips to replace a tire was the best they had to offer. truly pathetic.
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  #1186  
Old 04-06-2012, 01:25 PM
kcmoore11 kcmoore11 is offline
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I received my first sidewall bubble this past weekend (going about 20-25MPH over a barely noticeable pothole). Note I have the M Sport Package and xDrive hence the dreaded 19" Goodyear Eagle LS-2 All Season Run Flats. My dealer has ordered and will be replacing all four Goodyears with Michelin Primacy HP ZPs. Should be good to go afterwards. Had the car for 3 months now. Still fantastic.
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  #1187  
Old 04-06-2012, 02:24 PM
Diver624 Diver624 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kcmoore11 View Post
I received my first sidewall bubble this past weekend (going about 20-25MPH over a barely noticeable pothole). Note I have the M Sport Package and xDrive hence the dreaded 19" Goodyear Eagle LS-2 All Season Run Flats. My dealer has ordered and will be replacing all four Goodyears with Michelin Primacy HP ZPs. Should be good to go afterwards. Had the car for 3 months now. Still fantastic.
You'll have to switch to winter tires since the Primacy is not an all season tire.

Another option if you want all season tires is to switch to 19" 45 series Goodyear LS2's which come on the 7 series. It has a little higher sidewall (45 series vs. 40 series) to help absorb impacts Your speedo will be off by few % but that's not a big deal.

Something to think about.
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  #1188  
Old 04-06-2012, 05:27 PM
kcmoore11 kcmoore11 is offline
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Understood. I already have a set of winter rims/tires so these Primacys are perfect for me. For every BMW I have owned (this is my fourth) I have always used two sets of rims/tires.
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  #1189  
Old 04-10-2012, 07:54 AM
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Just spent last 2 hours reading through all these posts. Looking at a 2011 550i xdrive m sport with 7500 miles. Exactly what I've been looking for but, of course, exactly the worse car with the tire issues. Looks like it has the 19 inch rims with GY excellence tires on the car.

What do you guys think, it probably came with the LS2s and blew them out and had the excellence on as replacements. Did any of these cars come with the excellence on them out of the factory? Looks like some people are having problems with the excellences but not as bad as the LS2s. I always switch out summer/winter tires so that doesn't bother me. I'm thinking of asking the dealer(independent, not BMW) to swap out for the Primacy HP ZPs but since it's independent it would be the same as me doing it after the fact because I'm sure they would just work it into the price because they have no one to reimburse them for the tires.

Ohhhhh, I really want this car but this tire thing is killing me, not just at the point of purchase but down the road(pun intended). I would probably get 18 inchers for my winter tires.

Is there any problem putting 18 inch rims on the 550i xdrive msport?

TIA for the advice and previous 1188 posts of warnings about the tires. If I pull the trigger, I know what I'm up against. Feel bad for you guys who bought the car not knowing.
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  #1190  
Old 04-10-2012, 07:54 AM
passer68 passer68 is offline
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Just spent last 2 hours reading through all these posts. Looking at a 2011 550i xdrive m sport with 7500 miles. Exactly what I've been looking for but, of course, exactly the worse car with the tire issues. Looks like it has the 19 inch rims with GY excellence tires on the car.

What do you guys think, it probably came with the LS2s and blew them out and had the excellence on as replacements. Did any of these cars come with the excellence on them out of the factory? Looks like some people are having problems with the excellences but not as bad as the LS2s. I always switch out summer/winter tires so that doesn't bother me. I'm thinking of asking the dealer(independent, not BMW) to swap out for the Primacy HP ZPs but since it's independent it would be the same as me doing it after the fact because I'm sure they would just work it into the price because they have no one to reimburse them for the tires.

Ohhhhh, I really want this car but this tire thing is killing me, not just at the point of purchase but down the road(pun intended). I would probably get 18 inchers for my winter tires.

Is there any problem putting 18 inch rims on the 550i xdrive msport?

TIA for the advice and previous 1188 posts of warnings about the tires. If I pull the trigger, I know what I'm up against. Feel bad for you guys who bought the car not knowing.
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  #1191  
Old 04-10-2012, 08:03 AM
passer68 passer68 is offline
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sorry, double post
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  #1192  
Old 04-10-2012, 08:15 AM
Crmgr Crmgr is offline
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You're probably right in that the previous owner either had a problem or made the decision to switch to the Excellence, since X-Drives come with the LS2. I wouldn't however, let the tire issue be the deciding point if you really like this car. You live in Indiana, not New York. Not everyone is having a problem with either the LS2 or Excellence tires. I have 12,000 miles on my 19" LS2's with no issues.

You have seven months until next winter. If it were me I would buy the car, see how the Excellence works out for the next seven months and then make the decision on whether to go with run-flat or regular snows or all-seasons. Bridgestone may make their Gen3 run-flat all-season in 245-40-19 by then or Goodyear may even come out with an improved model.
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  #1193  
Old 04-10-2012, 08:19 AM
The X Men The X Men is offline
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Isn't the excellence a summer tire as oppose to all season tires, if you change out tires in the winter, it should be fine. I have been reading up on this subject as well, it should seems to me that the problem is BMW's active suspension system not working correctly with the run flat tires. Switching to non RFT seems to fix the problem, is there enough space in the trunk for a compact spare tire? The is such a mess BMW have created that I am no longer considering buying the sport package. I am now reading up on rather the non-sport package with the RFT is exempt from this problem.
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  #1194  
Old 04-10-2012, 09:55 AM
passer68 passer68 is offline
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Originally Posted by The X Men View Post
Isn't the excellence a summer tire as oppose to all season tires, if you change out tires in the winter, it should be fine. I have been reading up on this subject as well, it should seems to me that the problem is BMW's active suspension system not working correctly with the run flat tires. Switching to non RFT seems to fix the problem, is there enough space in the trunk for a compact spare tire? The is such a mess BMW have created that I am no longer considering buying the sport package. I am now reading up on rather the non-sport package with the RFT is exempt from this problem.
Excellence is a summer tire. The fact that it is a summer tire is not the reason that I'm concerned because I do switch out for winter tires. It's a concern that it is not a good summer tire and that they may fail and I have to replace them and waste money. I would replace them most likely with the Primacy tires.

That being said, I have an even greater concern that no matter what tire I use, they will bubble and fail. Both car and driver and autoweek has bubbling/flats with tires other than GY after they replaced their original LS2s.
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  #1195  
Old 04-10-2012, 10:11 AM
The X Men The X Men is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GHOST PROTOCOL View Post
I dropped off my 535xi for service today and was given a 550i with the sport package. The 550i has 19 inch rims and R19 GY tires. In short, all of the tires have bubbles in them. I can not wait to get my 535xi back, which has 18 inch rims and R18 GY tires. I do not like driving around with low profile tires that have bubbles.
You seem to be one of the few 5 series owner with 18" rims who had the tire problem. Did your tire had bubble or was it a flat due to a nail?
In your opinion, do you think BMW have this problem under control in the sport package tires. It seems that most of the tire and rim problems is from the 2011 model.
Thank You
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  #1196  
Old 04-12-2012, 08:27 PM
EIAlfonso EIAlfonso is offline
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Originally Posted by val3ntin3s View Post
I haven't gone through every post in this thread, but in case you guys are looking for the warranty information for your tires I've attached them to this post for your reference. Most of them state that if your tire is damaged due to road hazard and you still have at least 2/32" of tread and before the 1 year mark of your car purchase the tire will be replaced by the tire manufacturer.

Hope it helps.
thanks for the PDF, but to clarify they will replace during the first year or 2/32 of treadwear, whichever occurs first. After that they will pay on a prorated basis 50% tread used then 50% credit
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  #1197  
Old 04-23-2012, 09:17 PM
timmiii timmiii is offline
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Curious as not many people here have posted much regarding specific tire pressures but did anyone recall their tire pressure (cold) before their RFT's bubbled? I currently have the tires at BMW's recommended max which I believe is 42psi (cold), so far no problems. My F10 is running 245/45/18 I believe the GoodYear LS2's.
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  #1198  
Old 04-24-2012, 06:09 AM
radarguy radarguy is offline
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Originally Posted by timmiii View Post
Curious as not many people here have posted much regarding specific tire pressures but did anyone recall their tire pressure (cold) before their RFT's bubbled? I currently have the tires at BMW's recommended max which I believe is 42psi (cold), so far no problems. My F10 is running 245/45/18 I believe the GoodYear LS2's.
The 18" LS2s don't appear to have the same problem as the 19" version. Different sidewall size, different suspension. I ran my 19" LS2s at 36 psi front and 39 psi rear and accumulated eight failures.
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  #1199  
Old 04-24-2012, 07:38 AM
timmiii timmiii is offline
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Originally Posted by radarguy View Post
The 18" LS2s don't appear to have the same problem as the 19" version. Different sidewall size, different suspension. I ran my 19" LS2s at 36 psi front and 39 psi rear and accumulated eight failures.
I'm sorry to hear about your situation but eight failures sounds a bit excessive. Where was the tire mounted on the vehicle which failed?
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  #1200  
Old 04-24-2012, 07:46 AM
Crmgr Crmgr is offline
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I run my 19" LS2's at 36/40 and so far no problems after 13,000 miles. Tire pressure may therefore be a factor, but probably several variables come into play to explain why many have experienced multiple failures.
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