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F10 / F11 (2011 - Current)
The new chapter in the highly successful story of the BMW 5 Series Sedan (F10) and wagon (F11)

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  #126  
Old 03-05-2011, 12:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by radarguy View Post
According to my service adviser there are no problems with the 17" and they are rare with the the 18". The 19" is the big offender. Since I would guess that more 18" are sold than 19" (members on this forum are the exception), that tells the story. I get mine next week with 19" and don't look forward to the tire problems even though I have the insurance.
There are no problems with the 17 inch rims and R17 tires because they are not low profile, although they are fun flats.

There only a few problems with the 18 inch rims and the R18 tires because BMW had the wisdom to use 245/45/R18 low profile tires. Had BMW selected 245/40/R18 low profile tires, the story would be completely different because the 245/40/R18 tires have a much smaller side wall than the 245/45/R18 tires.

The 19 inch rims and R19 tires are having the greatest amount of problems because the sidewall of the tire is very small.

IMO, this is a low profile tire problem, rather than a run flat tire problem.
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  #127  
Old 03-05-2011, 12:38 PM
Emilner Emilner is offline
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Then why is it only happening with Goodyear rft's and not the other brands?
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  #128  
Old 03-05-2011, 04:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Emilner View Post
Then why is it only happening with Goodyear rft's and not the other brands?
Exactly. 5 eagles in 3 weeks with bubbles, and zero in 3 weeks with same size pilot a/s + It is 100% the tire
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  #129  
Old 03-27-2011, 01:32 PM
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What’s going on with the run flat failures? – My assessment.

I hope to impart some facts and solicit comments and suggestions on the idea of going to 18" instead of 19”.

I suffered a sidewall bubble on one of the 245/40/19 Goodyear LS2 run flat tires on my 535i X sport as many others have. It probably happened at 1000 miles when I hit a “minor” pothole at 60 MPH in Northern VA. I researched my options by talking to two BMW dealers, four independent local tire dealers, Tire Rack, and Goodyear consumer relations. My conclusion is that the failures occur because it is a low profile tire not because it is a Goodyear or because it is a run flat. I know that others feel differently, but I came to this conclusion after talking to tire dealers that have no agenda and derive no benefit from misleading me. In fact it would benefit them to sell me a new set of four tires which I indicated I might do rather than wait for a replacement. These dealers have considerable hands on experience with all brands of tires and have encountered an unusual number of low profile tire failures in CT this winter due to the road conditions.

One thing is that none, except Tire Rack and the BMW dealers have had much experience with the 19” Goodyears since there are comparatively few around. So there is a possibility that the Goodyears are more prone to failures than the other brands or have manufacturing defects, but Tire Rack doesn’t think so.

Here is an expansion of what I found:

This tire in this size was made specifically for the F10. It is only made in Germany and no other vehicle uses it.

1. Why It Happens
It could be a manufacturing defect if it happens within the first six months or so of tire use. It is more likely due to an impact from a pothole or some other obstacle that causes the tire to compress until the inside of the tire hits the wheel. Judging by the fact that most people on the forums associate the bubble with a pothole or other impact I’d say that it is impact in most cases. When the rim hits the inside of the tire, the inside of the tire gets bruised or cut and this is readily observable when the tire is removed from the wheel. I received this explanation from a few of the tire dealers and there is a good write-up at http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tirete...jsp?techid=159.

2. Why Does This Particular Tire Seem To Fail?

We read about it on the BMW forums so we don’t see the whole picture of other cars or tires. I asked the four independent dealers and Tire Rack if the problem was peculiar to the LS2’s or the fact that they are RFT’s or because they are low profile. Each one had the same answer – low profile. The local dealers said there were an enormous number of low profile failures this winter and RFT’s were no better or worse than the other low profile tires. The four tire dealers plus Tire Rack said that run flats could theoretically be better because of the stiffer sidewall, but they have not observed that. My take is that going to non-RFT’s will not improve the failure situation and may worsen it.

3. Replacement Availability
There are no 19” LS2’s at any U.S. Goodyear owned store or warehouse and it will be at least four weeks before the stock is replenished. Tire Rack says six weeks. The other tire dealers and BMW dealers say at least four weeks. According to one tire dealer who checked with the home office there are 1100 19” tires back ordered and as of March 25 are on the way to a German port for shipment to the U.S.

4. Solutions
One BMW dealer indicated the problem was more prevalent with 19” vs 18”. The four tire dealers and Tire Rack had mixed answers about going to 18”. They all said that theoretically there should be an improvement, but some said not a dramatic improvement and others that they really didn’t expect a real world improvement at all. I wonder if the U.S. suspension is tuned for the 18” and replacing four wheels and four tires is a long term fix. The 18” wheels are the standard 535i configuration for the M-Sport package in the UK with 19” offered as an option. Of course we only get a pseudo M-sport suspension and 19” wheels in the U.S. and it may be tuned for the 19” combination.

5. Goodyear Road Hazard Warranty
It is good for 12 months and includes replacement and installation. It does not include balancing, old tire disposal, and taxes. It is subject to wear limitations. Presently, Goodyear is willing to replace my four tires with four from another manufacturer because of the lack of Goodyear stock. Unfortunately the only RFT’s in the 19” size are summer which I don’t want. I could go to 18” if I wanted to buy wheels.

6. My Solution
Well I don't really have one. So far my BMW dealer hasn’t indicated what they could do for me other than put me on a list. Goodyear seems anxious to make things right and they set me up with a local independent dealer to negotiate a solution, but I can’t find an acceptable solution. Most of the tire dealers said I probably could get by with the bubble until a replacement arrives, but no guarantees. A failure would not be catastrophic because of the RFTs. At the moment I’m hanging on with what I have and hoping for the best. I am also toying with the idea of going to 18” wheels, but am not sure about the impact on ride and handling.

Last edited by Ågent99; 02-09-2013 at 11:54 PM.
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  #130  
Old 03-27-2011, 01:41 PM
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this is a very long and well thought out review, but I think it is incorrect. i have had my non rft Michellin A/S tires on my car for a full month now. i have driven over similar bumps and potholes (of course not on purpose) with not one fail. i had Goodyear LS2s for 3 weeks and had FIVE failures. not one or two. FIVE. there is no way that i am just "luckier". the tires are poorly made, they are prone to damage, and it is not because they are low profile, which every other tire of the 19inch variety has. if that were the case, there would be an equivalent amount of fails on the Non-RFTs. check this board, the numbers don't lie.

also, consider your sources. these are guys who probably take better margin on a hugely priced rft tire vs non-rft.
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  #131  
Old 03-27-2011, 02:31 PM
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It might also be possible that this size tire was designed to a price point rather than what was actually needed for a car the weight of an F10.

I don't have the data for the Eagles, but I do have some info for the GY Excellence ROF tires:
245/40R19 - wt 29lbs (F10 OEM)
245/45R19 - wt 32 lbs
245/45R18 - wt 33 lbs
245/40R20 - wt 32 lbs
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  #132  
Old 03-27-2011, 04:09 PM
Emilner Emilner is offline
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It is a defect in the design or manufacturing of the Goodyear RFTs that come on the F10. The easiest way to see it is not just because of the low profiles is to sample which tires have been damaged. To date I can't remember one person saying their non-GY runflat bubbled. The F10 comes with Michelins, Goodyears and Dunlops. So far only one brand is experiencing this problem. Now that is not to say no other brand has had damage. What we are talking about is relatively minor potholes that cause bubbling. If you have a bent or cracked rim then I would not expect the tire to be any better- that is clearly from a severe impact. The dealer has since replaced all four of my tires (for free) with Dunlops and the ride has been great (the handling is much better, but that has to do with going from all seasons to max summers). And knock on wood, no bubbles so far. That's after 5 in a two month period with the GYs.

I would like to hear from owners who have other brands on their car to see if they have bubbled tires with good rims...
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  #133  
Old 03-27-2011, 04:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by radarguy View Post
I hope to impart some facts and solicit comments and suggestions on the idea of going to 18" instead of 19".

. . . .

My conclusion is that the failures occur because it is a low profile tire not because it is a Goodyear or because it is a run flat. I know that others feel differently, but I came to this conclusion after talking to tire dealers that have no agenda and derive no benefit from misleading me.

. . . .

I am also toying with the idea of going to 18" wheels, but am not sure about the impact on ride and handling.
I agree with you 100%. I know that I am in the minority opinion, but I have been stating for months that the tire failure issue is because the tires are low profile, not because they are run flat.

See for example:

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...t=#post5895206
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  #134  
Old 03-27-2011, 04:21 PM
Emilner Emilner is offline
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Originally Posted by CRMESQ View Post
I agree with you 100%. I know that I am in the minority opinion, but I have been stating for months that the tire failure issue is because the tires are low profile, not because they are run flat.
It's not because they are runflat, it is because of the design of the particular tire.

If it was solely because of the low profile nature then why is only one brand getting all if not nearly all of the bubbles?
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  #135  
Old 03-27-2011, 04:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emilner View Post
It's not because they are runflat, it is because of the design of the particular tire.

If it was solely because of the low profile nature then why is only one brand getting all if not nearly all of the bubbles?
It is not only one brand that is getting most/all of the bubbles.

The low profile tires on my 2008 Jaguar were Conti Pro. When I was having the problem and started taking notice of other vehicles with low profile tires, there were a variety of tires with the bubbles, not just Conti Pro and not just Good Year.
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  #136  
Old 03-27-2011, 04:28 PM
Emilner Emilner is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CRMESQ View Post
It is not only one brand that is getting most/all of the bubbles.

The low profile tires on my 2008 Jaguar were Conti Pro. When I was having the problem and started taking notice of other vehicles with low profile tires, there were a variety of tires with the bubbles, not just Conti Pro and not just Good Year.
We are talking about f10s and a particular brand of tire here. Many other cars have their own issues, but when sampling the f10 universe it is easy to see that all of the problems are coming from only one of the three factory installed tires...
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  #137  
Old 03-27-2011, 04:37 PM
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I drove an e60 550i for over five years on crappy Illinois roads, with winter and summer RFTs and nonRFTs, and had one sidewall bubble on a nonRFT from hitting such a large pothole that it destroyed my rim. All of my tires on the e60 were 18 inch, but were 40 series, so same sidewall as all the Goodyears that are failing. Based on my experience, there is no way that this is just a low profile tire issue.

I saw all the posts on tire problems before I picked up my car and put on 18 inch winter nonRFTs the minute I bought my 550ix. THe OEM Goodyear LS2s were taken off when I bought the car and Michelin PS2 nonRFTs are waiting on my summer rims for warmer weather.
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  #138  
Old 03-27-2011, 06:29 PM
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The goodyear tires are pure garbage!!! I had 5 bubbles and one blow out. Dealer switched up for 4 new bridgestones. Hit a few potholes but no bubbles.
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  #139  
Old 03-27-2011, 06:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CRMESQ View Post
It is not only one brand that is getting most/all of the bubbles.

The low profile tires on my 2008 Jaguar were Conti Pro. When I was having the problem and started taking notice of other vehicles with low profile tires, there were a variety of tires with the bubbles, not just Conti Pro and not just Good Year.
goodyear is particularily terrible. really and truly crm.
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  #140  
Old 03-27-2011, 06:42 PM
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Good information in the replies and differing positions just as I suspected. Unfortunately, if we want 19" all season run flats we are stuck with the LS2's. They are the only ones in that size. What to do? I hate to take a chance getting 19" non-RFT's because I don't want to strap a spare to the floor of the trunk and I don't think a pump and patch kit are the solution ... but, who knows? Could be that's the best of the bad choices.
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  #141  
Old 03-27-2011, 06:49 PM
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Originally Posted by radarguy View Post
Good information in the replies and differing positions just as I suspected. Unfortunately, if we want 19" all season run flats we are stuck with the LS2's. They are the only ones in that size. What to do? I hate to take a chance getting 19" non-RFT's because I don't want to strap a spare to the floor of the trunk and I don't think a pump and patch kit are the solution ... but, who knows? Could be that's the best of the bad choices.
i'm taking the risk. how many blow outs have you ever had? i think i have changed one tire my entire life. i think it's worth it to feel the difference. it really is a travesty that they stick those hockey pucks on these automobiles.
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  #142  
Old 03-27-2011, 07:40 PM
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i'm taking the risk. how many blow outs have you ever had?
I've had no blow outs that I can recall, but slow leaks primarily due to nails or screws have caused me to change many tires. Occasionally those leaks deflate the tire quickly enough so that there is little warning before the tire goes flat. Ideally you have enough time to pull over before you wreck the tire.

The thing is that I have never had low profile tires and therefore no experience with blowout susceptibility. I am concerned that in addition to the slow leaks due to nails that a hard impact will indeed cause a blowout due to a bent rim or ruptured sidewall. I would hope that the TPMS will give me enough warning that I could handle the slow leaks with a pump and/or patch so that I could limp home. It's those potential blowouts that concern me. I find the concept of being stranded on a rural Interstate at night in the winter a worrisome thought. At least with a RFT I could make it to a safe haven then maybe wait a few days or weeks for a replacement. It was a really bad idea for BMW not to leave room for a spare.
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  #143  
Old 03-27-2011, 07:54 PM
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I guess I am in the minority,I have a 528i and deliberately got 17's. Having read all the posts on RFT's and living in the Philadelphia area ( more potholes than anywhere ) I decided to trade the look of low profile for the piece of mind of big sidewalls.
BTW they are Continental SSR's
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  #144  
Old 03-28-2011, 12:58 PM
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My two cents: It's not the low profile, RFT, or the size of the tire, it is the manufacturer of that particular tire - Good Year. They are defective, period. I've had low profile non-run flat Pirelli P Zeros that have taken the blow when the rim has bent - twice. Sure, low profile is more susceptible to bending the rim when you hit a pothole but they are not more susceptible to developing side bubbles - only Good Year RFTs do that
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  #145  
Old 03-28-2011, 01:03 PM
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I have had many cars with low profile tires. My last BMW had Bridgestones and I had flats but never a bubbled side wall. The tires drove horrible do to there extremely stiff sidewalls, but they worked exactly as advertised. I just got back form a Goodyear dealer showing them my bubbled sidewall. The guy measured my tread and said this is a brand new tire. I had to laugh!!!! He was calling Goodyear to see what they can do. I opted for no tire insurance based on my experience in my previous BMW and I would have been ahead of the game with that car. It looks to me that the sidewall on the Goodyear LS2 is just not up to par.

Just a few of my thoughts.
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  #146  
Old 03-28-2011, 01:13 PM
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Just to weigh in here... I just discovered bubbles on both front tires on my 535i xDrive that is about 5 months old. I've never seen this before (I've been driving BMW's since 1993) and am about to file for a warranty claim with Goodyear through my dealer. Not nice to hear that they are back ordered and very disconcerting that it is so widespread.

DAK
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  #147  
Old 03-28-2011, 02:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1HOT BMR View Post
My two cents: It's not the low profile, RFT, or the size of the tire, it is the manufacturer of that particular tire - Good Year. They are defective, period. I've had low profile non-run flat Pirelli P Zeros that have taken the blow when the rim has bent - twice. Sure, low profile is more susceptible to bending the rim when you hit a pothole but they are not more susceptible to developing side bubbles - only Good Year RFTs do that
I got bubles on non rfts with my 335 18"


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  #148  
Old 03-28-2011, 03:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emilner View Post
It is a defect in the design or manufacturing of the Goodyear RFTs that come on the F10. The easiest way to see it is not just because of the low profiles is to sample which tires have been damaged. To date I can't remember one person saying their non-GY runflat bubbled. The F10 comes with Michelins, Goodyears and Dunlops. So far only one brand is experiencing this problem. Now that is not to say no other brand has had damage. What we are talking about is relatively minor potholes that cause bubbling. If you have a bent or cracked rim then I would not expect the tire to be any better- that is clearly from a severe impact. The dealer has since replaced all four of my tires (for free) with Dunlops and the ride has been great (the handling is much better, but that has to do with going from all seasons to max summers). And knock on wood, no bubbles so far. That's after 5 in a two month period with the GYs.

I would like to hear from owners who have other brands on their car to see if they have bubbled tires with good rims...
I have the 20" BMW 312 wheels that came with Dunlop RFT tires. I have had 1 tire fail (bubble) in+/- 5000 miles of driving. Not too bad compared to some of the GY stories...

Should have mentioned, I have an F10 550i. It came w/Dunlop SP Sport Maxx DSST RunOnFlat tires.
Greg

Last edited by gbates; 03-28-2011 at 04:07 PM. Reason: tTires
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  #149  
Old 03-29-2011, 03:19 PM
Stanesq Stanesq is offline
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Another bubble

Just found another bubble today. That is five bubbled tires in just over 3 months.

By the way, for those of you riding around with bubbles, the tire can/will blow out eventually. Its not a long term solution to drive with bubbled tires.
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  #150  
Old 03-29-2011, 03:23 PM
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Saw this image in another thread. Seems appropriate.

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