Questions from a prospective buyer

Hi all,

I've been looking seriously at the new 7 series for a while but have decided to step back and consider some other cars. I've thought about the F10 but was turned off by a couple of items. On a lark, I visted this page and have been a bit blown away by what I have read.....things such as the value of a 7 for the price of a 5 series....more rear leg room than a 750i, etc, etc. These remarks certainly would get anyone interested.

I had a few questions if anyone has a moment:

1. Do the comfort seats come with the adjustable side bolsters...i.e., are they the 20 way adjustable seats found in the 7 series or the 18 way adjustable seats from the 5 series?

2. How is the ride on long trips.....my wife's 2008 X5 sport beats me up a bit (seats are hard and the ride is a bit harsh) while my 2006 750LI is a dream....just wondering what your subjective thoughts were for this type of use??

3. Have there been any recurring problems with the new model or have they been fairly reliable?

4. Does it feel more like driving a large sedan, a midsize sedan or an SUV? i.e., would you compare it to an X5, a 5 series, or a 7 series drive?

5. Have the X-Drive models had the same pulling problems as the new 7 series X-drives?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts and input!

1st off let me say I think you will be pleased with the GT!

now to answer your questions in the respective order:


1. Do the comfort seats come with the adjustable side bolsters...i.e., are they the 20 way adjustable seats found in the 7 series or the 18 way adjustable seats from the 5 series? The GT with sport package includes the Multi Contour seats which are 20 way just like the 7 series as opposed to the 18 way versions found in the F10 5 Series

2. How is the ride on long trips.....my wife's 2008 X5 sport beats me up a bit (seats are hard and the ride is a bit harsh) while my 2006 750LI is a dream....just wondering what your subjective thoughts were for this type of use?? With the DHP (Dynamic Handling Package) option you can select 4 supsension settings - from Cadillac soft to sure footed firm. You will be hard pressed to find a more comfortable and entertaining car than the GT on a long drive. You will not want to stop driving.

3. Have there been any recurring problems with the new model or have they been fairly reliable? Run Flat issues aside - these cars are proving to be fairly reliable

4. Does it feel more like driving a large sedan, a midsize sedan or an SUV? i.e., would you compare it to an X5, a 5 series, or a 7 series drive? The GT drives like a big BMW sedan not like an X5/X6. As its placement in the model lineup suggest its somewhere in between the F10 5 Sedan and the F01/F02 7 Series sedan

5. Have the X-Drive models had the same pulling problems as the new 7 series X-drives? I personally have not experienced the pulling issues that have been reported to affect the F10 5 Series and/or F01/F02 7 Series, but my experience relates to the RWD GT only

I would suggest that you drive the 5, 7 and GT back to back, as there are now comparable across the board engine drivetrain wise. I think you will be pleasantly suprised at much of a value the 5 GT really is. Remember the 5 GT is basically a 7 Series with a hatch. The wheelbase is identical to the standard wheelbase 7 Series while providing more legroom. The only car in the BMW lineup with more rear legroom is the F02 LWB 750 Li/760 Li Series. Most all options, save for the overhead rear air conditioning on the 760 Li, Alcantara Headliner, Leather Dash and select "BMW Individual" options and the Msport package, can be ordered on the GT. The GT also has a 4-Place seating option with rear electrically powered "comfort seats" and a fixed center console if you desire. This is an option that is not available on any standard 7 Series




Thanks in advance for your thoughts and input!

Thanks so much for your input!

This really is an amazing value relative to the other series.

Do you find that the sport package makes a big difference on the car? I always have preferred sport packages on my 7 series cars.

By the way, I love that cinnamon brown nappa....is the nappa leather a good deal softer than the dakota yet still fairly durable? I don't think I have either nappa or dakota in my 2006 7....I think it's nasca leather if memory serves.

Thanks again.

Originally Posted by car-fan

1st off let me say I think you will be pleased with the GT!

now to answer your questions in the respective order:


1. Do the comfort seats come with the adjustable side bolsters...i.e., are they the 20 way adjustable seats found in the 7 series or the 18 way adjustable seats from the 5 series? The GT with sport package includes the Multi Contour seats which are 20 way just like the 7 series as opposed to the 18 way versions found in the F10 5 Series

2. How is the ride on long trips.....my wife's 2008 X5 sport beats me up a bit (seats are hard and the ride is a bit harsh) while my 2006 750LI is a dream....just wondering what your subjective thoughts were for this type of use?? With the DHP (Dynamic Handling Package) option you can select 4 supsension settings - from Cadillac soft to sure footed firm. You will be hard pressed to find a more comfortable and entertaining car than the GT on a long drive. You will not want to stop driving.

3. Have there been any recurring problems with the new model or have they been fairly reliable? Run Flat issues aside - these cars are proving to be fairly reliable

4. Does it feel more like driving a large sedan, a midsize sedan or an SUV? i.e., would you compare it to an X5, a 5 series, or a 7 series drive? The GT drives like a big BMW sedan not like an X5/X6. As its placement in the model lineup suggest its somewhere in between the F10 5 Sedan and the F01/F02 7 Series sedan

5. Have the X-Drive models had the same pulling problems as the new 7 series X-drives? I personally have not experienced the pulling issues that have been reported to affect the F10 5 Series and/or F01/F02 7 Series, but my experience relates to the RWD GT only

I would suggest that you drive the 5, 7 and GT back to back, as there are now comparable across the board engine drivetrain wise. I think you will be pleasantly suprised at much of a value the 5 GT really is. Remember the 5 GT is basically a 7 Series with a hatch. The wheelbase is identical to the standard wheelbase 7 Series while providing more legroom. The only car in the BMW lineup with more rear legroom is the F02 LWB 750 Li/760 Li Series. Most all options, save for the overhead rear air conditioning on the 760 Li, Alcantara Headliner, Leather Dash and select "BMW Individual" options and the Msport package, can be ordered on the GT. The GT also has a 4-Place seating option with rear electrically powered "comfort seats" and a fixed center console if you desire. This is an option that is not available on any standard 7 Series

Thanks in advance for your thoughts and input!

+1 Concise and well said - I will add the following;

1- I am 6'3" tall and weigh 210 lbs. and have the sport multi-contour front seats and the standard back seats in up graded Nappa leather. I find the comfort in both the front and back to be incredible. The near infinite array of settings combined with heated seats makes for a pleasant driving experience indeed. The GT is one of a very few cars I find the back accommodations to be as good, if not better than the front. In general, there is no comparison when compared to the F10 – the GT offers the luxury of space – 7 series space to be exact. Indeed, I find driving comfort, and back seat comfort, to be superior to the 7 series because of the slightly raised seat positions in the GT. Friends and family who ride with me go for the back seats first!

2- The ride is compliant but the handling is engaging - in short - fun! I would consider the dynamic handling option that allows you to adjust the dynamic characteristics of the car to be mandatory. I have done a number of 250 mile road trips in my car and I feel fresh and ready for more at their conclusions. The same trips in my SUV or 335i left me tired. The HP and torque make the overall experience dreamy - to think it is to do it - gobs of creamy power.

3 - I have only had my GT only for 2 months but I have put over 4000 miles on it. I have had no issues. I have 20 inch wheels and Goodyear performance run flats – I actually like them. I find the tires to be very responsive, good in both the wet and dry. Car-fan would probably respond – yeah – they are ok at best but the GT with replacement non runflat tires takes the car to another level.

4 - The GT is not an X SAV – it is, as Car-fan states, a 7 series with fastback athletic styling. The car's dimensions are large but the GT drives small. The GT is the size of a 7 series but dynamically it bests the F10 550i – note the thread – Road and Track comparison of 550i and GT for the numbers. Surprising and compelling.

5 - Having rear drive I cannot comment on X Drive.

I never seriously crossed shopped the 550i or 750i. The primary competition to my GT was the Porsche Panamera. As you looked at the F07 site on a whim – I sought out the GT as if merely an academic exercise, knowing I was not interested. I found the styling, performance, luxury, utility and price to be compelling. I never anticipated the numerous positive comments. Many people treat it as an exotic and assume it is substantially more expensive than it is. In general. I find the styling of the 550i to be anonymous and the 7 series to be a little too formal for me. In the past. I have described the styling and the general persona of the GT as being athletically robust – I consider that characterization to be apt.

Thanks guys!

What's your gas mileage and total range (highway driving) on the 550i with a full tank? I'm thinking about the trade-off of power vs. fuel consumption....did you all drive a 535i vefore chossing the 550i?

Is the 550i pretty surefooted in the rain? I was just wondering about the X-drive vs. rear wheel for rain driving...snow not much of a concern here in the south.

Finally, I saw a picture of the automatic seat stowing buttons in the rear hatch area....very cool! It seems there are three settings...what do the different settings do to the second row seats? Do the options change if you have the rear luxury seats?

Thanks so much for your help and sorry for all the questions but bimmerfest members always seem to know the cars best.

Originally Posted by Willy Carter

Thanks guys!

What's your gas mileage and total range (highway driving) on the 550i with a full tank? I'm thinking about the trade-off of power vs. fuel consumption....did you all drive a 535i vefore chossing the 550i?

Is the 550i pretty surefooted in the rain? I was just wondering about the X-drive vs. rear wheel for rain driving...snow not much of a concern here in the south.

Thanks so much for your help.

You might want to check out the Thread titled "early mpg - surprising" where a number of us have offered our mileage under various conditions. My mpg normally varies from about 16 city to 24 highway. Guys with the 535 GT have reported 30 mp.

535 GT - is probably is the more logical choice - and I am sure it is a very fine vehicle but I have no interest. Can we say - 4.4-liter, 32-valve 400-hp V-8 engine with TwinPower Turbo - max torque 450 - dynamic handling - 20-inch wheels with performance tires - not only mitigated the Panamera's sporting DNA but continues to put a smile on my face every time I push the start button.

As to driving in the wet - I have had no issues - as I said in my prior post - I like the Goodyear RFTs but I am probably in the minority.

The car is not a 5 series, and it is not a 7 series. It's a frankencar, although a well executed one, where the designers raided the the existing inventory of parts and options ignoring model number to build to a concept.

In the pure world, people who want a sport sedan should buy a 3. People that want a luxury sedan should buy a 7. People that want a pure Gran Turismo should look elsewhere because this car is a large 4 seater. I can see where the GT appears positioned as a premium 5 series, but really... unless you plan on sitting in the back seat (which is where the car shines most) it is best pigeon-holed as a 5 series hatchback.

That's not to say that it you should force it into a category. It does defy categorization which I think is part of why the reviewers have nearly univerally panned the car, while buyers that like the concept love it (and don't have much else to choose from).

I didn't notice the sport package made much difference in the driving... but it does add on the luxury seats. An oddly named package.

Originally Posted by 11gt535

The car is not a 5 series, and it is not a 7 series. It's a frankencar, although a well executed one, where the designers raided the the existing inventory of parts and options ignoring model number to build to a concept.

In the pure world, people who want a sport sedan should buy a 3. People that want a luxury sedan should buy a 7. People that want a pure Gran Turismo should look elsewhere because this car is a large 4 seater. I can see where the GT appears positioned as a premium 5 series, but really... unless you plan on sitting in the back seat (which is where the car shines most) it is best pigeon-holed as a 5 series hatchback.

That's not to say that it you should force it into a category. It does defy categorization which I think is part of why the reviewers have nearly univerally panned the car, while buyers that like the concept love it (and don't have much else to choose from).

I didn't notice the sport package made much difference in the driving... but it does add on the luxury seats. An oddly named package.

Sorry I would have to respectfully disagree. The GT inherits the 7 series DNA right down to the wheel base. The GT has more room in "all" positions in comparison to the F10 5 series sedan. The only thing one might "arguably" say it shares with the F10 is the lower airdam and maybe the door handles- thats it. The interior is different, the exterior is different. As far as borrowing parts is concerened please elaborate on which BMW models with the exception of the 7 series they came from? I'll give you a couple to research, the frameless side windows - front and rear, and/or the bimodal (twin opening) hatch.

As far as the handling is concerned the difference between the standard supsension car and a sport package equipped one, is marked. Even if you didn't factor in the DHP suspension differences - the wheel package alone would make a difference in handling 18 x 8.5 at 4 corners vs. 19 or 20 inch staggered setup with 10.0 inch rims in the rear.

Mr. Carter look at the GT's carefully, its a car your spec to your preference. Once you decide on the configuration that you like, I am sure you will be most satisfied.

Just My Two Cents of Course

Originally Posted by 11gt535

The car is not a 5 series, and it is not a 7 series. It's a frankencar, although a well executed one, where the designers raided the the existing inventory of parts and options ignoring model number to build to a concept.

In the pure world, people who want a sport sedan should buy a 3. People that want a luxury sedan should buy a 7. People that want a pure Gran Turismo should look elsewhere because this car is a large 4 seater. I can see where the GT appears positioned as a premium 5 series, but really... unless you plan on sitting in the back seat (which is where the car shines most) it is best pigeon-holed as a 5 series hatchback.

That's not to say that it you should force it into a category. It does defy categorization which I think is part of why the reviewers have nearly univerally panned the car, while buyers that like the concept love it (and don't have much else to choose from).

I didn't notice the sport package made much difference in the driving... but it does add on the luxury seats. An oddly named package.

I disagree. In short - the best seat in my 5 GT is the driver's seat.

I find integral to my positive assessment is my car's Sport Package with the ability to fine tune the GT's dynamic characteristics including suspension, throttle, and steering. The SP in tandem with 20 inch wheels and staggered front and back tires awakens the 5GT's sporting DNA. I do agree with your positive appraisal of the back seat's comfort - I would add - it is rare indeed, to find a vehicle that can post dynamic numbers as good as the 5 GT's and offer the luxury and utility of the 5 GT. I think this is equally valid for both the 535iGT and 550iGT.

I do not consider reviews to be critical to my buying decisions, but your statement that the 5GT has been "nearly universally panned" is not true. The 5 GT is polarizng but I have read numerous reviews from very respectable sources offering praise. For example, attached is a comparison test by Automobille Magazine comparing the Porsche Panamera S and the 550i GT.

http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews...a_s/index.html

Originally Posted by car-fan

Sorry I would have to respectfully disagree. The GT inherits the 7 series DNA right down to the wheel base. The GT has more room in "all" positions in comparison to the F10 5 series sedan. The only thing one might "arguably" say it shares with the F10 is the lower airdam and maybe the door handles- thats it. The interior is different, the exterior is different. As far as borrowing parts is concerened please elaborate on which BMW models with the exception of the 7 series they came from? I'll give you a couple to research, the frameless side windows - front and rear, and/or the bimodal (twin opening) hatch.

As far as the handling is concerned the difference between the standard supsension car and a sport package equipped one, is marked. Even if you didn't factor in the DHP suspension differences - the wheel package alone would make a difference in handling 18 x 8.5 at 4 corners vs. 19 or 20 inch staggered setup with almost 10.5 inch rims in the rear.

Mr. Carter look at the GT's carefully, its a car your spec to your preference. Once you decide on the configuration that you like, I am sure you will be most satisfied.

Just My Two Cents of Course

+1

Originally Posted by svanil

I disagree. In short - the best seat in my 5 GT is the driver's seat.

I find integral to my positive assessment is my car's Sport Package with the ability to fine tune the GT's dynamic characteristics including suspension, throttle, and steering. The SP in tandem with 20 inch wheels and staggered front and back tires awakens the 5GT's sporting DNA. I do agree with your positive appraisal of the back seat's comfort - I would add - it is rare indeed, to find a vehicle that can post dynamic numbers as good as the 5 GT's and offer the luxury and utility of the 5 GT. I think this is equally valid for both the 535iGT and 550iGT.

I do not consider reviews to be critical to my buying decisions, but your statement that the 5GT has been "nearly universally panned" is not true. The 5 GT is polarizng but I have read numerous reviews from very respectable sources offering praise. For example, attached is a comparison test by Automobille Magazine comparing the Porsche Panamera S and the 550i GT.

http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews...a_s/index.html



+1

I know everyone will not agree with us. But I cant figure off if "11gt535" likes the car or not. It appears he may have one.

Personally, I ordered my GT sight unseen, just going off of what I saw at the Miami International Car Show. I knew it was a vehicle I would be happy with regardless of public consensus.

But svanil I do ponder the mind set of some folks and their rationale on the placement of the GT. It's actually entertaining

I don't know if this is "hijacking" a thread or not, but I am in much the same position as the OP and had an additional question that I was hoping some of you could help me with.

Background: I have an E60 550i 6MT and am looking to replace it (perhaps have two cars for a brief while) because I need some more room and the MT is less than convenient in the type of driving I'm doing now. I thought of the 5GT because I've always liked BMWs and this seemed like a good compromise: a luxurious BMW with cargo carrying capacity that doesn't look too much like an SUV.

I test drove a 535GT yesterday (as I suspected, my dealer didn't have any 550GT on hand) and liked it, although it sports an interior that I've had in my last few cars and the 6 cylider made a bit too much noise when shifting down to pass. But the thing that I didn't suspect was the frameless windows, and my question is if any of you have had problems with noise (wind, road, etc) or water leakage due to this feature. I know my sister had a car (different brand) with frameless windows and when she bought the new model the dealer mentioned that they did away with them because of wind noise and some rain leakage. Granted, most sales people will say anything but it does make a bit of sense.

BTW, other cars I test drove were the X3 (nice but didn't do anything for me), Volvo XC60 (surprisingly nimble and powerful but I would only buy it if I decided to keep the 550) and a Porsche Cayenne S, which I ashamedly fell madly, deeply in love with. It drove like a go-kart and the interior (admittedly a personal matter) was to die for. It's just wifey doesn't like the high step in and it's not as comfortable in the back as the GT.

I've read this whole thread but would just appreciate any experience with the frameless windows.

Thanks.

Originally Posted by nlk10010

I don't know if this is "hijacking" a thread or not, but I am in much the same position as the OP and had an additional question that I was hoping some of you could help me with.

Background: I have an E60 550i 6MT and am looking to replace it (perhaps have two cars for a brief while) because I need some more room and the MT is less than convenient in the type of driving I'm doing now. I thought of the 5GT because I've always liked BMWs and this seemed like a good compromise: a luxurious BMW with cargo carrying capacity that doesn't look too much like an SUV.

I test drove a 535GT yesterday (as I suspected, my dealer didn't have any 550GT on hand) and liked it, although it sports an interior that I've had in my last few cars and the 6 cylider made a bit too much noise when shifting down to pass. But the thing that I didn't suspect was the frameless windows, and my question is if any of you have had problems with noise (wind, road, etc) or water leakage due to this feature. I know my sister had a car (different brand) with frameless windows and when she bought the new model the dealer mentioned that they did away with them because of wind noise and some rain leakage. Granted, most sales people will say anything but it does make a bit of sense.

BTW, other cars I test drove were the X3 (nice but didn't do anything for me), Volvo XC60 (surprisingly nimble and powerful but I would only buy it if I decided to keep the 550) and a Porsche Cayenne S, which I ashamedly fell madly, deeply in love with. It drove like a go-kart and the interior (admittedly a personal matter) was to die for. It's just wifey doesn't like the high step in and it's not as comfortable in the back as the GT.

I've read this whole thread but would just appreciate any experience with the frameless windows.

Thanks.

Knocking on wood, I honestly can say I have not experienced any issues at all with the frameless windows. I think you should also try and find a 550 GT with sport pack to test drive as well. I test drove the 535 GT at a BMW Drive event out of curiosity (months after my purchase) and confirmed what I suspected. The 535GT seems underpowered for my tastes. Especially now

Are 550GT's a rarity at the dealers lots in your area?

Well, it so happens that the CA I like to work with is at a very large dealer that tends to have the most cars (I despise their service department but I have no problem buying from one dealer and servicing at another). I had also read, either on these Boards or another, that 550GTs were scarce, so when he told me he didn't have one I had already become resigned to that possibility. Besides, I also wanted wifey to test the room, seats, design, etc. so the drive had value. The CA also offered to let me drive a 550i but I thought there would be enough difference in the regular vs. GT that I declined the offer.

I think I will go over to the smaller dealer near me (the one with the competent service department) and see if I can scare up a 550GT.

Thanks for the post.

Originally Posted by car-fan

I know everyone will not agree with us. But I cant figure off if "11gt535" likes the car or not. It appears he may have one.

Personally, I ordered my GT sight unseen, just going off of what I saw at the Miami International Car Show. I knew it was a vehicle I would be happy with regardless of public consensus.

But svanil I do ponder the mind set of some folks and their rationale on the placement of the GT. It's actually entertaining

There was a time when I was ruled by Road & Track et al. I learned the hard way that cars often deemed hot-must-haves, six months later were often relegated to the trash bin. Validation is a comfortable old shoe. We seek out and surround ourselves with the familiar which confirms our good taste. Many posters are invested emotionally and financially in the past. Inherent in car design is a creative tension to incorporate a brand’s styling cues in a fresh but non threatening manner. The 5 GT resists easy categorization. I believe you need to evaluate it on its own terms and with respect to its design objectives. I have received numerous unsolicited compliments which I did not expect given the opinions of my fellow e90 forum members (I was driving a 335i Vert). Although the compliments are nice, what I really enjoy is the experience of driving my car and being able to share the experience with my family. I thank BMW for having the vision and corporate fortitude to bring the 5 GT to fruition. I have learned in life that my well being and prosperity depends on being able to form and act on my own opinion.

In passing, I was invited to the German Ambassador’s residence last night for a very nice party. The residence is a very fine example of Bauhaus Design. I couldn’t help noticing that my 550i GT looked very natural in this setting under the front portico, as if designer and architect closely collaborated to offer a shared vision of German modernism.

People have been arguing for 10 years now ever since BMW stopped changing out suspension components with their "Sport Packages". Outside the world of ordering new cars, if you were going to try and upgrade handling, you'd change out suspension components first and tires would be near the end of the list. I haven't driven a BMW equpped with the Dynamic Handling Package so I really can't comment on how much that improves handling... on paper it should be substantial. So if they called that the "M Sport Package" and the current sport package the "Luxury seating and performance tire" package I wouldn't have any beef. This whole issue is not by any means limited to the GT. And it also doesn't mean that the sport package isn't a good option or is overpriced.

I certainly didn't mean to offend any owners. I love the car enough to buy one myself, but I can't bring myself to say it's perfect for everyone or "superior" objectively to either the standard 5 or 7 series. It is a unique car that is uniquely positioned and that's going to create a love/hate market. A friend of mine that has followed BMW's for years recoils in disgust and compares the styling to a Prius... that clearly isn't a fair comparison, but it just demonstrates how polarizing the GT can be. Once a potential buyer sits in it and drives it around, it doesn't take long to figure out how well it fits.

Originally Posted by 11gt535

People have been arguing for 10 years now ever since BMW stopped changing out suspension components with their "Sport Packages". Outside the world of ordering new cars, if you were going to try and upgrade handling, you'd change out suspension components first and tires would be near the end of the list. I haven't driven a BMW equpped with the Dynamic Handling Package so I really can't comment on how much that improves handling... on paper it should be substantial. So if they called that the "M Sport Package" and the current sport package the "Luxury seating and performance tire" package I wouldn't have any beef. This whole issue is not by any means limited to the GT. And it also doesn't mean that the sport package isn't a good option or is overpriced.

I certainly didn't mean to offend any owners. I love the car enough to buy one myself, but I can't bring myself to say it's perfect for everyone or "superior" objectively to either the standard 5 or 7 series. It is a unique car that is uniquely positioned and that's going to create a love/hate market. A friend of mine that has followed BMW's for years recoils in disgust and compares the styling to a Prius... that clearly isn't a fair comparison, but it just demonstrates how polarizing the GT can be. Once a potential buyer sits in it and drives it around, it doesn't take long to figure out how well it fits.

No offense. I agree - the 5 GT is a car for a niche market. Indeed, I think BMW is blazing a trail in North America. In North America, I think BMW is front of the market. In general I find the 5 GT is more polarizing in the BMW enthusiast's world than in the wild, where I receive many compliments unsolicited. Personally, I disliked both the concept and early photos of the GT. Only after having had an up close and personal encounter with my
550i GT did I understand the remarkable qualities of the car.

Originally Posted by nlk10010

.......BTW, other cars I test drove were the X3 (nice but didn't do anything for me), Volvo XC60 (surprisingly nimble and powerful but I would only buy it if I decided to keep the 550) and a Porsche Cayenne S, which I ashamedly fell madly, deeply in love with. It drove like a go-kart and the interior (admittedly a personal matter) was to die for. It's just wifey doesn't like the high step in and it's not as comfortable in the back as the GT.

I've read this whole thread but would just appreciate any experience with the frameless windows.

Thanks.

I have had no issues with the frameless windows - neither wind noise nor leaking. Interesting you didn't like the X3 - I owned an 07 and liked it very much, and even though the new F25 is supposed to be superior in just about every way, it leaves me cold. Perhaps I will warm up to it after I drive it.

Originally Posted by svanil

I have had no issues with the frameless windows - neither wind noise nor leaking. Interesting you didn't like the X3 - I owned an 07 and liked it very much, and even though the new F25 is supposed to be superior in just about every way, it leaves me cold. Perhaps I will warm up to it after I drive it.

It's not that I didn't like the X3, it was just that I was looking for something, well, special, especially since it would probably end up being my only car. Granted, what's special is completely subjective but, while the X3 drove well, it just didn't "do" anything for me. As well, the step in was high enough that it might have posed a problem for my wife, at least down the road.

Thanks for the info about the windows. I wonder if frameless was a design decision on BMW's part or if it was dictated by the presence of the hatch.

Originally Posted by nlk10010

It's not that I didn't like the X3, it was just that I was looking for something, well, special, especially since it would probably end up being my only car. Granted, what's special is completely subjective but, while the X3 drove well, it just didn't "do" anything for me. As well, the step in was high enough that it might have posed a problem for my wife, at least down the road.

Thanks for the info about the windows. I wonder if frameless was a design decision on BMW's part or if it was dictated by the presence of the hatch.

Just out of curiosity...you were shopping at the Porsche store....why not the Panamera?
The Panamera is unique, fun to drive, and doesn't have the height issue. (I seriously crossed shopped it before purchasing my 550i GT).

BTW Once you are able to test a 550i GT - I bet the GT will please you with its performance, and satisfy your wife's desire for a luxury back seat.

Originally Posted by svanil

Just out of curiosity...you were shopping at the Porsche store....why not the Panamera?
The Panamera is unique, fun to drive, and doesn't have the height issue. (I seriously crossed shopped it before purchasing my 550i GT).

BTW Once you are able to test a 550i GT - I bet the GT will please you with its performance, and satisfy your wife's desire for a luxury back seat.

I did test drive the Panamera, albeit the base model (300 hp V6, not 4wd).

First, given the price, this would be my only car and I wouldn't have any more carrying capacity (probably would have less) than I do now. Part of the reason I'm looking to change is that there are times I need to transport stuff and I simply can't.

Second, the Panamera is probably $15-20,000 more than a comparable Cayenne. I could get the Cayenne S (which is AWD) for essentially the same price as the base Panamera I referred to above.

I don't think there's too much to choose back-seat-comfort-wise between the two, but the Cayenne actually is shorter and lets me sit up higher, giving it a slight edge in visibility.

If I could afford a Panamera 4S I might go for it but I don't think that will be possible. As well, Porsche just doesn't discount very much and there is no complimentary maintenance. But the colors (both exterior and interior)! Oh, those colors. Leaps and bounds better than the ones BMW offers.

Originally Posted by nlk10010

I did test drive the Panamera, albeit the base model (300 hp V6, not 4wd).

First, given the price, this would be my only car and I wouldn't have any more carrying capacity (probably would have less) than I do now. Part of the reason I'm looking to change is that there are times I need to transport stuff and I simply can't.

Second, the Panamera is probably $15-20,000 more than a comparable Cayenne. I could get the Cayenne S (which is AWD) for essentially the same price as the base Panamera I referred to above.

I don't think there's too much to choose back-seat-comfort-wise between the two, but the Cayenne actually is shorter and lets me sit up higher, giving it a slight edge in visibility.

If I could afford a Panamera 4S I might go for it but I don't think that will be possible. As well, Porsche just doesn't discount very much and there is no complimentary maintenance. But the colors (both exterior and interior)! Oh, those colors. Leaps and bounds better than the ones BMW offers.

Hmmmm….....very interesting…....…....I came to many of the same conclusions….....

I occasionally need to carry large art related pieces and the 5 GT easily accommodated my utility needs.

Price – the V6 Panamera - not particularly well equipped - was about $82,000. The same money bought a very well equipped 550i GT. To borrow a line from Porsche…....There Is No Substitute (for HP and Torque). Compared to the Panamera S the BMW 550i GT had a significant price advantage.

The interior of the Panamera is very pleasing but I preferred the look and feel of the BMW. I very much preferred the i-drive control to the array of buttons in the Panamera. As to colors, I knew I wanted Black and I was open regarding the interior. Overall, I was really wowed by the design, features and space of the BMW interior.

In general, I thought the Panamera was more sporting but this sportiness was mitigated by the 550i GT's fantastic twin turbo outputting 400 HP and 450 ft-lbs of torque coupled with dynamic handling and 20 inch wheels. In the areas of ride, space, utility, and luxury I found the 5 GT better suited my needs and desires.

Lastly, I can relate to your desire to have something that feels special….....I like very much the F10 550i but I think the styling is a little too restrained. Panameras are becoming very common in my area. Perhaps because there are so few GTs in the wild – I feel at times I am driving a 7 series based exotic.

Originally Posted by svanil

Hmmmm….......very interesting…......…......I came to many of the same conclusions….......

I occasionally need to carry large art related pieces and the 5 GT easily accommodated my utility needs.

Price – the V6 Panamera - not particularly well equipped - was about $82,000. The same money bought a very well equipped 550i GT. To borrow a line from Porsche…......There Is No Substitute (for HP and Torque). Compared to the Panamera S the BMW 550i GT had a significant price advantage.

The interior of the Panamera is very pleasing but I preferred the look and feel of the BMW. I very much preferred the i-drive control to the array of buttons in the Panamera. As to colors, I knew I wanted Black and I was open regarding the interior. Overall, I was really wowed by the design, features and space of the BMW interior.

In general, I thought the Panamera was more sporting but this sportiness was mitigated by the 550i GT's fantastic twin turbo outputting 400 HP and 450 ft-lbs of torque coupled with dynamic handling and 20 inch wheels. In the areas of ride, space, utility, and luxury I found the 5 GT better suited my needs and desires.

Lastly, I can relate to your desire to have something that feels special….......I like very much the F10 550i but I think the styling is a little too restrained. Panameras are becoming very common in my area. Perhaps because there are so few GTs in the wild – I feel at times I am driving a 7 series based exotic.

I agree. I got a chance to drive the Panamera at an exclusive Porsche Drive event. I drove the Panamera S and Panamera 4S on a slalom course with an instructor. No doubt the Porsche is more sporting. But a Porsche Panamera S with options similar to my GT would have been well north of 100k - I would estimate about $110-115K. And as stated, the Porsche does not offer the outright space or flexibility of the GT.

I also agree with nlk10010 that the Cayenne is actually a better buy. I drove a 2011 Cayenne Turbo and like the Panamera inspired interior as well as the performance. But the exterior reminds me of a Mazda CX9. I prefer the exterior of the 2010 Cayenne GTS and Turbo S. That being said, you can buy a nicely optioned 2011 Porsche Cayenne Turbo for about the same price as a lightly optioned Panamera 4S.

Or you can marvel in the money you saved as well as the comfort, luxury, and space of the GT

A quick thought on the frameless windows.
I find the interior quieter than the 09 750 I had
It is interesting that when you open the door, the window comes down about a half inch.
So when you close it, the window rises and snugs up into the roof of the cand and seals tightly thus making the cabin quieter.

Interesting, I guess the lower window also makes it easier to close the door.

Thanks for posting that information, it's good to hear that at least a few people haven't experienced any issues with the frameless windows.

Love my frameless windows. The car is very very quiet.
So far all my guest rear seat passengers have been effusive. And the last two were both over 6'2".
So glad I opted for the Premium Rear Seat Package.