Welcome to Bimmerfest -- The #1 Online Community for BMW related information! Please enjoy the discussion forums below and share your experiences with the 200,000 current, new and past BMW owners. The forums are broken out by car model and into other special interest sections such as BMW European Delivery and a special forum to voice your questions to the many BMW dealers on the site to assist our members!

Please follow the links below to help get you started!

Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 5 Series > E39 (1997 - 2003)

E39 (1997 - 2003)
The BMW 5-Series (E39 chassis) was introduced in the United States as a 1997 model year car and lasted until the 2004 when the E60 chassis was released. The United States saw several variations including the 525i, 528i, 530i and 540i. -- View the E39 Wiki

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 02-20-2011, 08:45 PM
Mike's 5040I Mike's 5040I is offline
Registered User
Location: Northern California
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 20
Mein Auto: 840CI, 650I
Crankshaft position sensor

Folks,
Anyone know a definitive way to test the crankshaft position sensor<
Also , who is likely to have the best prices for the sensor .
I have a 2000 540I6 and a 1997 840Ci. I just had the 840 refuse to start and my troubleshooting is pointing at the CPS, but the problem has not been recorded by the DME according to the Peake code reader.
Anyone have a similiar experience ?
Mike
Reply With Quote
Advertisement
  #2  
Old 02-20-2011, 09:18 PM
first540i's Avatar
first540i first540i is offline
my first bmw
Location: SGV, CA
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 338
Mein Auto: e39
according to Bentley, your car will not start with the CPS Malfunctioning and the ECM should throw a code if it does not receive any signal from the CPS
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 02-21-2011, 01:24 AM
bluebee's Avatar
bluebee bluebee is offline
Seek to understand,^Value
Location: San Jose, California
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 22,012
Mein Auto: 02 BMW 525i M54 auto 130K
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike's 5040I View Post
my troubleshooting is pointing at the CPS
From the BMW E39 glossary (1) ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan M View Post
Although it is accepted on this board that "CPS" means camshaft or crankshaft position sensors, that's actually incorrect. CKP is the correct acronym for crankshaft position sensor and CMP is correct for camshaft position sensor. Just some FYI.
Unfortunately, there's not much about testing the CKP in the VERY best of E39 Links.

Here's all I found:
- HOW TO REPLACE THE CRANKSHAFT POSITION SENSOR ON A BMW 2002 530i e39

To the OP:
Since every thread is supposed to further our tribal knowledge, when you do solve this problem, please either write it up or tell us where you found the best references ... so that we can augment the VERY best of E39 Links for the next person to stand on your shoulders.

Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 02-21-2011, 04:17 AM
Quackers's Avatar
Quackers Quackers is offline
Learning all the time
Location: Manchester, UK
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 545
Mein Auto: 540i
All CPS's (crank or cam :-) ) should be OEM and nothing else. You may find them cheaper on ebay and the like, but you will probably be replacing it again within a month.
__________________
I maybe paranoid but that doesn't mean they're not after me!

Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 02-21-2011, 06:28 AM
fauchpj fauchpj is offline
Registered User
Location: Birmingham
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 89
Mein Auto: 03 540i 6MT | 05 X5 3.0i
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quackers View Post
All CPS's (crank or cam :-) ) should be OEM and nothing else. You may find them cheaper on ebay and the like, but you will probably be replacing it again within a month.
I can relate to this. Get the OEM BMW brand. Even the BavAuto generic brand will fail in a matter of weeks.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 02-21-2011, 12:37 PM
Mike's 5040I Mike's 5040I is offline
Registered User
Location: Northern California
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 20
Mein Auto: 840CI, 650I
Cps

Thanks to all of you that replied.
The electrical diagrams seem to indicate that it is a passive variable - reluctance pick up , not a hall - effect sensor , so it should have a measureable coil resistance . I'll send my measurements back to the forum.
Thanks!
Mike
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 02-21-2011, 12:39 PM
SSJRICH 540i SSJRICH 540i is offline
00 E39 540i/6 M Sport
Location: Vancouver, BC
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 293
Mein Auto: '98 540i
I did both cam and crank.. very easy to do...

Cam was about $130 and crank was $80
__________________

Current - '00 540i/6 M Sport ........................ Old - '97 540i/6
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 02-22-2011, 08:43 AM
mtnbimmer mtnbimmer is offline
Registered User
Location: Colorado
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 68
Mein Auto: 325ix, 540iT
Yes, you can test this sensor. You will need a graphing type meter. I use a Snap On Vantage meter.

At the sensor connector (underneath the car near the bell housing), backprobe the connector. You should have a two wire connector. CKP + is yellow, CKP - is black.

KOEC (key on, engine cranking) should produce a sort of sine wave pattern.

KOER (key on, engine running), should generate an AC voltage from 11 to 17 volts. As RPM increases, so should voltage. (If the car is not running, then this test would be tough to do.....)

As you noted, you can do a resistance test. Should be about 500-600 ohms between the terminals identified above.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 02-22-2011, 09:25 AM
bluebee's Avatar
bluebee bluebee is offline
Seek to understand,^Value
Location: San Jose, California
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 22,012
Mein Auto: 02 BMW 525i M54 auto 130K
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtnbimmer View Post
Yes, you can test this sensor
So that every thread builds upon the diagnostic misfire thread, I added this to the classic tests:

- How to diagnose a BMW E39 engine misfire (1)

Quote:
Test the CMP (aka CPS) camshaft position sensor (1) (2)
  • The CMP will set a fault when it is bad (per bimmertec)
  • If bad, replace the CMP
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 02-22-2011, 11:12 AM
TemporarySanity's Avatar
TemporarySanity TemporarySanity is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Linden,MI
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,561
Mein Auto: 02 530, 02 540, 07 525
I just learned how to test a CPS from an engineer I know that works for Bosch. With it removed, attach leads from a multimeter to the positive and negative terminals on the plug. The third terminal is the signal. You should get a reading around 500 to 600 ohms. Take a heat gun and begin to heat the CPS up. The ohms will go to 700 to 900 but not continue to climb on a good one whereas a bad one will continue to climb till it reaches a point where it goes offline, meaning open circuit.
__________________

I discovered I scream the same way whether I'm about to be eaten by a great white shark or if a piece of seaweed touches my foot.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 02-22-2011, 12:54 PM
MatWiz's Avatar
MatWiz MatWiz is offline
Psychology Reversalist
Location: NYC
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 16,074
Mein Auto: 528
Quote:
Originally Posted by TemporarySanity View Post
I just learned how to test a CPS from an engineer I know that works for Bosch. With it removed, attach leads from a multimeter to the positive and negative terminals on the plug. The third terminal is the signal. You should get a reading around 500 to 600 ohms. Take a heat gun and begin to heat the CPS up. The ohms will go to 700 to 900 but not continue to climb on a good one whereas a bad one will continue to climb till it reaches a point where it goes offline, meaning open circuit.
Cool!

mw
__________________
MatWiz
"Seeing is not believing. Believing is seeing." -Judy the Elf
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 02-22-2011, 05:51 PM
bluebee's Avatar
bluebee bluebee is offline
Seek to understand,^Value
Location: San Jose, California
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 22,012
Mein Auto: 02 BMW 525i M54 auto 130K
Quote:
Originally Posted by TemporarySanity View Post
I just learned how to test a CPS
I'd like to add this to the diagnostic misfire thread ... but before I do that ... can you confirm whether you're talking about the CMP (camshaft position sensor) or the CKP (crankshaft position sensor) when you say CPS?

TIA
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 02-22-2011, 06:12 PM
Mike's 5040I Mike's 5040I is offline
Registered User
Location: Northern California
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 20
Mein Auto: 840CI, 650I
Crankshaft position sensor

Hi Blue Bee ,
I am having the problem with the Crankshaft position sensor . The power supply on the fuel pump fuse is not set to +12 V, so the process is to see if the crankshaft position sensor is operating , as a non - functioning sensor inhibits the fuel pump relay. The supply should be applied for 3 seconds when cranking is initiated , but the DME looks for crankshaft pulses or it releases the fuel pump relay. Apparently , the DME does not want the engine operable if the Crankshaft position sensor is inoperable.
I have a DMM and an oscilloscope , so when I get the time to fully diagnose I will send in pictures and measurements for my fellow E39 brethren.
Mike
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 02-22-2011, 07:21 PM
rdl rdl is online now
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Ontario, Canada
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,146
Mein Auto: 530i 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike's 5040I View Post
Thanks to all of you that replied.
The electrical diagrams seem to indicate that it is a passive variable - reluctance pick up , not a hall - effect sensor , so it should have a measureable coil resistance . I'll send my measurements back to the forum.
Thanks!
Mike
WDS says that the crank position sensor is a hall effect device.

*****************
Crankshaft Sensor

The current engine speed is transferred via the crankshaft position/rpm sensor to the engine control unit. The crankshaft position/rpm sensor is designed as a Hall-effect sensor. An incremental wheel indicates the current crankshaft position. The crankshaft position/rpm sensor sends out a square-wave signal as the engine turns over.

Steps taken by engine control unit in the event of a fault in the crankshaft position/rpm sensor.

If the crankshaft position/rpm sensor is faulty, a corresponding fault code "crankshaft position/rpm sensor" is stored in the fault code memory of the engine control unit. The camshaft sensor signal is then used as the engine speed signal (emergency operation).

Possible effect: Misfiring is possible and start characteristics deteriorate.
*****************

EDIT: I should have noted this is in the MS43 section. MW7.2 and MSS62 say the same thing
EDIT2: Cam position sensors are hall effect also.

Regards
RDL

Last edited by rdl; 02-22-2011 at 07:27 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 02-22-2011, 08:16 PM
TemporarySanity's Avatar
TemporarySanity TemporarySanity is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Linden,MI
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,561
Mein Auto: 02 530, 02 540, 07 525
I'm sorry, I was referring to the crankshaft sensor. I believe the same technique would work on a cam sensor but the ohms may be different.
__________________

I discovered I scream the same way whether I'm about to be eaten by a great white shark or if a piece of seaweed touches my foot.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 02-22-2011, 10:23 PM
MatWiz's Avatar
MatWiz MatWiz is offline
Psychology Reversalist
Location: NYC
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 16,074
Mein Auto: 528
The less post count they have, the more acronyms they use.

I can understand why. It's interesting though.

mw
__________________
MatWiz
"Seeing is not believing. Believing is seeing." -Judy the Elf
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 02-23-2011, 07:19 AM
bluebee's Avatar
bluebee bluebee is offline
Seek to understand,^Value
Location: San Jose, California
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 22,012
Mein Auto: 02 BMW 525i M54 auto 130K
To always improve our diagnostic procedures with value extracted from every thread, I added the crankshaft position sensor information to the misfire diagnostic DIY:
- How to diagnose a BMW E39 engine misfire (1)
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 02-23-2011, 07:31 AM
TemporarySanity's Avatar
TemporarySanity TemporarySanity is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Linden,MI
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,561
Mein Auto: 02 530, 02 540, 07 525
Should I stick with whole words so not to confuse the masses and to be more precise? I do realize there are people here that don't know what all the abbreviations refer to, but when I'm posting, I know what I mean and tend to forget that there are so many similar ones. No harm though.
__________________

I discovered I scream the same way whether I'm about to be eaten by a great white shark or if a piece of seaweed touches my foot.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 05-22-2013, 11:40 AM
SDpnoy SDpnoy is offline
E46Fanatics
Location: CA
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 39
Mein Auto: BMW 330Ci
Do you guys know where I could find the resistance values for the Crankshaft Position Sensor?
__________________
This totally makes sense...

FOR SALE
E46 M3 OEM Diffusers <15k miles

FOR RENT
RTAB Tool

My iTrader Feedback
Note: I mainly post in E46Fanatics.com
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 04-03-2014, 07:24 PM
mjbennett9 mjbennett9 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Grapevine, TX (DFW)
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 330
Mein Auto: 525i (E39)
Passing on some info--consume it how you will. Not sure what to make of it all, but here goes.

Purchased my car over two years ago, maybe 2 and a half. Has always run well, not great, not perfect. Ok power etc but just ok, you know. I didn't really have anything to compare it to. I bring this up because later it makes sense--sort of. Fast forward to now, and nothing scientific cuz incrementally I've done things to car over the years, but nothing for months prior to CPS work. In the past year or so, come to a fast stop, the car has or almost stalled for no reason (in my mind). About a month ago, I get a check engine light, check code. it was exhaust CPS I think (one without the built in wire). So I ordered both just in case. I ordered OEM but not original. One was meyle and the other MTC (one of which looked just like BMW but was scratched off). See pic. Anyway, replaced and code gone asap. AND, a good bump in performance/power. Noticable. But was it 20% or 30%, probably not. maybe 10% to 20%, but enough that for a while I was getting whiplash stepping on gas because I would step on it harder than normal as I always did. But doing that would propel car forward more than before. Good right? yes, sort of. My mileage, is and has pretty much been at 31 to 33 on the highway and 15 to 16 city. When I got the code it dropped about 5% or so. With new CPS sensors (both), mileage dropped 20%!!! I put old sensors back, mileage back to just the 5% drop. I ordered both OEM Original, boom, mileage right back to 31/33 and 15/16. Again, not sure what it means other than the obvious to only use OEM Original for CPS (which others have stated before). But it is interesting that the code was fixed, and I did get a performance boost. BUT, mileage took huge hit.

Also to note. the non-original sensors took a LOT of force to get them to fit. OEM original slid right in. The non-original screw hole didn't line up perfectly as well. Original-perfect.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	20140321_094742_Android.jpg
Views:	1805
Size:	75.7 KB
ID:	431695  

Last edited by mjbennett9; 04-03-2014 at 07:25 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 04-03-2014, 10:28 PM
Burning2nd Burning2nd is offline
Under the lift arms
Location: Under the lift arms
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 4,721
Mein Auto: E39 540, E36 328is, E83x3
very good... glad to see that we are testing stuff and not throwing parts at it..

The heat gun trick.. very good grasshopper..

This is used for other pick up type sensors as well..
Dc and AC
__________________
Specializing In BMW, Audi, Mercedes Benz ,Volkswagen, Volvo

"Burning 2nd is a lot like vitamin tonic. Overly harsh, tastes like crap, but somewhere in all that there's good intent......just have to learn to read between the lines, actually you have to squint really hard to see the good, but its there somewhere"

15486372<-----
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 04-03-2014, 11:38 PM
bluebee's Avatar
bluebee bluebee is offline
Seek to understand,^Value
Location: San Jose, California
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 22,012
Mein Auto: 02 BMW 525i M54 auto 130K
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjbennett9 View Post
The non-original screw hole didn't line up perfectly as well. Original-perfect.
This is good information to cross reference to the OEM thread:
- What BMW E39 parts & supplies are most often recommended to buy OEM from a dealer or sponsor (1)

See also:
- How to replace your camshaft position sensor (CPS) in the E39 (02 530i) (98 540i) (M62 98 540i) (98 528i) (530i) & E46 (1) & ('99 740iL)
- How to locate, access, and replace the CKP crank position sensor in the I6 (1) and the crankshaft pulse generator in the V8 (1)
__________________
Please read the suggested threads, where the best always add value to those threads, either by pictures or by descriptions, so the next person with the same problem stands on your shoulders.
See also: E39 Bestlinks & How to easily find what you need

Last edited by bluebee; 04-03-2014 at 11:42 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 04-04-2014, 01:32 AM
stafi stafi is offline
Registered User
Location: Poland
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16
Mein Auto: e39 530i
M54B30 - 65 NW_E error

I am aware that this may be described somewhere else but I am also aware that there are many misleading info on the web re the camshaft sensor and that is why I have decided to share my experience in that matter.

Subject: e39 with m54b30 under the hood.
Since some time I could fell noticeable drop of power under 3000 rpm. That wasn't always the case, but it appeared form time to time. At the beginning it was enough to turn off/on the engine and all was working fine. After a while the problem was showing up more often and the turn off/on didn't help. The car was running smooth, but when properly warmed up no power below 3000rpm. Press the gas and she's like getting not enough of something. Strange thing was that when I started the car cold and kept going even when fully warm the car was running ok until I turned it off. When I turned the car or warm the problem started to appear. So it was not suddenly getting weaker while driving (if you get the point)

INPA checks were throwing 65 NW_E (currently not present) error. One could say that I already knew what is wrong but when searching on the web I got many misleading interpretation of this code. I couldn't be sure which sensor that is as some people pointed out the intake one and others the exhaust. As the OEMs are not cheep the alternatives are usually not working I decided to make absolutely sure before buying anything.

Took a ride with INPA hooked up, looking at the Vanos indications. When cold, these were working reasonably well….but after some time when properly warmed up and noticeably no power the Vanos indications of the intake side were constantly showing 120 (locked), so these were not working. This led towards the intake sensor.
Just one additional test, asked my friend with m54b25 to exchange sensors and a test ride. Effect spotted immediately, my car was running muuuuuch better and his was having problems from the start.
SO finally decided to buy an OEM sensor, replaced it and wow that car now runs as never before!

Summary:
65 NW_E – That is an error for the INTAKE CAMSHAFT POSITION SENSOR
Part #: 18 on realoem, http://realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?...70&hg=11&fg=15
OEM part #: 12141438081 replaced by 12147539165 (brand unknown, only BMW sign + number on it).

Symptoms:
- Frequent torque drop below 3000 – 3500 rpm
- Slight problems with turning on the engine on warm - need to turn ca 1-2 sec more
- Irregular acceleration and requires more gas on takeoff.
- Intake VANOS not working while driving on warm
- Normal operation when the engine is cold.

Last edited by stafi; 04-04-2014 at 01:34 AM. Reason: few details eddited
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 05-02-2014, 08:12 PM
josemedeiros007 josemedeiros007 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: San Jose, California
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 140
Mein Auto: 1998 528i 4Dr
Greetings, I am still having intermittent problems with my Check Engine light on my 3/98 BMW 528i, the light comes on and after a hundred miles or so of driving it shuts off. The Peak research codes FA and 53 show it's a EVAP Error and Crank Sensor since my engine swap about a year ago at La Rosa's Automotive in Atescadero, although I only have 7,500 miles since then. I am wondering if the wiring harness connectors are reversed, and if any one know the correct color code for the wiring? I cleared the light took the car into have it smoged and it would not pass due to the lack of counters, but passed the emissions test. The check engine light has stayed off for about 200 miles but just came back on today.

Thank you for the help!

Jose F. Medeiros
1998 BMW 528i, 275,000 miles
408-256-0649 Google Voice
San Jose, California
http://www.linkedin.com/in/josemedeiros
"There is nothing you can't accomplish if you let another man take the idea". ..President Ronald Reagan
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Forum Navigation
Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 5 Series > E39 (1997 - 2003)
Today's Posts Search
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On



Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:59 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
© 2001-2011 performanceIX, Inc. All Rights Reserved .: guidelines .:. privacy .:. terms