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E39 (1997 - 2003)
The BMW 5-Series (E39 chassis) was introduced in the United States as a 1997 model year car and lasted until the 2004 when the E60 chassis was released. The United States saw several variations including the 525i, 528i, 530i and 540i. -- View the E39 Wiki

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  #51  
Old 03-10-2011, 10:36 PM
franka franka is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdl View Post
EDIT 2: I see Doru & I responded in parallel. He makes good points.

I don't think it is only a philosophical question at all. Further, your decision is probably entirely rational ecconomics assuming you wouldn't be happy in a Malibu, Camry, etc.

First, the $5-6k Blue Book you mention is only partially relevent.
Rather the question is what are the expected future costs of this car, versus the future costs of a replacement car.
For example, with your current car, assume:
1 the car will satisfy you for another 5 years. This repair will then cost you ~$180 per year
2 other repairs will be $1,000 per year
3 ongoing depreciation will $750 per year
Current car cost of ownership is $1,930 / year

Now for the alternative, assume:
1 the "new" car would be $15,000 less $5,000 trade-in, net $10,000
2 annual depreciation over next few years is $2,000
3 repairs on the new car will be $750 per year (it won't be brand new either)
4 insurance premiums on a newer car will be $250 / year more
The alternative "new" car annual cost would be $3,000 / year

I've taken lots of shortcuts, ignored some costs and made some gigantic assumptions in this simplistic calculation, but the ecconomic principle is valid. Compare future costs, not the ratio of a single repair to the current value.

I've also ignored emotional / satisfaction issues. But if we were to ignore those we would probably all be driving a Camry or an Accord.

Regards
RDL
Very good. You must work in a related profession.
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  #52  
Old 05-09-2011, 10:27 AM
cn90 cn90 is offline
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UPDATE:

I decided to do the whole shee-bang for the REAR suspension.
The REAR end is squeaking like crazy!

So here is the list. The parts should be here this weekend!

- Shocks (Bilstein HD)
- Shock Mount
- Bump Stop
- Protective Boot
- Balljoints Lemforder
- Swaybar bushings
- Endlink-Lemforder
- Integral Link-Lemforder
- Control Arms (L, R, and Rear)-Lemforder

TOTAL = $930

BTW, I use:

http://www.eaceuroparts.com

(Same company as EACTuning.com but eaceuroparts prices are better).

Last edited by cn90; 05-09-2011 at 10:30 AM.
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  #53  
Old 05-09-2011, 12:10 PM
Mark@EAC Mark@EAC is offline
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Thanks again for your order Cam, it was great speaking with you this morning!

That is correct, we have the pricing set lower on our new website in an effort to be more competitive. Soon EAC Tuning will re-direct you to EAC Euro Parts when you try to go there. I plan on making an announcement at the same time we start the redirect so hopefully there is no confusion.
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  #54  
Old 05-24-2011, 11:54 AM
pleiades pleiades is offline
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I've seen some really good pricing lately at the EAC websites....

Just to stir up this quiet thread.... In an earlier post it was pointed out that the wheel bearings on e39s come already pressed into sleeves that you bolt into the wheel carrier from the backside after pushing the half-shaft in and out of the way.

Is it beyond reason to simply replace the bearing only (as would be the case for an e46 DIYer) and re-use the sleeve without bothering to unbolt it (four loctited bolts...)? Finding the right bearing might be a problem unless anyone already knows what it is?

I've been reading a bit on these DIYs and noticed where some folks say pressing the half-shaft out of the hub flange may be as easy as using a dowel/drift and a few strikes of a heavy hammer. What say ye?
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  #55  
Old 05-24-2011, 12:22 PM
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I saw a substantial improvement on my car by replacing integral links, ball joints, sway bar bushing and sway bar end-links. My car has only 116k so I would imagine I can get another 30k from the control arms as my tech said they looked fine. I have no noticeable wheel bearing noise.
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  #56  
Old 05-24-2011, 12:46 PM
cn90 cn90 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pleiades View Post
...
Is it beyond reason to simply replace the bearing only (as would be the case for an e46 DIYer) and re-use the sleeve without bothering to unbolt it (four loctited bolts...)? Finding the right bearing might be a problem unless anyone already knows what it is?
Hi pleiades,

E46 REAR bearing is round bearing, the classic setup.

E39 REAR bearing is welded into the sleeve (rectangular mount)!
So you have to replace the whole unit.
At $64, don't even worry about the cost if you need to do it.
It is cheap!
There is however a nice trick on bimmerforums: simply press down on the CV joint rubber boot (protect it with a rag first!) to expose the bolts.
Pay attention to step #3:

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...php?p=22007329

Last edited by cn90; 05-24-2011 at 12:48 PM.
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  #57  
Old 05-24-2011, 01:36 PM
pleiades pleiades is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cn90 View Post
Hi pleiades,

E46 REAR bearing is round bearing, the classic setup.

E39 REAR bearing is welded into the sleeve (rectangular mount)!
So you have to replace the whole unit.
At $64, don't even worry about the cost if you need to do it.
It is cheap!
There is however a nice trick on bimmerforums: simply press down on the CV joint rubber boot (protect it with a rag first!) to expose the bolts.
Pay attention to step #3:

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...php?p=22007329
WELDED IN!!!???

Shoulda known. The rears are indeed cheap, doubt even the bearing alone would be significantly less. The fronts, however, are really up there price-wise. They're just bearings in a bolt-on sleeve ....

Thanks for the link to bimmerfiver's thread, makes perfect sense. So when you move the half-shafts back and out of the way, there's enough space to unbolt and slide out the bearing assembly? Good to know.
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  #58  
Old 05-24-2011, 01:39 PM
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Shires Shires is offline
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I did a full rear suspension refurb on my car late last year. Coupled with a very good alignment the difference is astounding.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pleiades View Post
I've been reading a bit on these DIYs and noticed where some folks say pressing the half-shaft out of the hub flange may be as easy as using a dowel/drift and a few strikes of a heavy hammer. What say ye?
I have read the same, but both sides took a good bit more force than that on my car.
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  #59  
Old 08-06-2011, 11:30 AM
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champaign777 champaign777 is offline
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folks
why tried it on E39 ??

Rear Wheel Bearing Removal With No Special Tools BMW 325i

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=wKYL9_4mXRI

Last edited by champaign777; 08-06-2011 at 11:32 AM.
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  #60  
Old 08-06-2011, 12:01 PM
franka franka is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shires View Post
the difference is astounding.
Please describe with details. What is astounding about it?
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  #61  
Old 08-06-2011, 06:27 PM
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Here is a a nice illustration from TIS:



Quote:
Originally Posted by franka View Post
Please describe with details. What is astounding about it?
I list below some issues encountered before overhauling the rear suspension. I have no such issues any more and am very happy with the car. Disclaimer: I'm a perfectionist.
  • The rear was perturbed by surface imperfections, especially when cornering.
  • It was too easy to make the rear step out (bear in mind I have only ~170hp at my disposal).
  • It was impossible to permanently align the rear of the car, despite what the alignment shops found. As evidenced by an automated side-slip test and an ever present sense that it was not tracking straight.
  • It liked to chew the inside of its rear tyres.
  • Basically I had a sense that the rear of the car was soft and that minor albeit unwanted toe changes were occurring all the time. (I realise that the E39 rear axle is meant to change toe dynamically but absolutely not in the way that I experienced.)

Last edited by Shires; 08-06-2011 at 06:31 PM.
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  #62  
Old 08-06-2011, 06:41 PM
franka franka is offline
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I have 230k+ miles on mine and only a couple rear joints had been replaced around 100k. My wide tires wear very evenly and my car handles beautifully and I press it very hard at times. I suspect you had something very wrong or your alignment shop didn't know what it was doing, based on the experience with my car.

I did replace all the moving joints in the front around 200k.
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Last edited by franka; 08-06-2011 at 06:42 PM.
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  #63  
Old 08-06-2011, 06:57 PM
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champaign777 champaign777 is offline
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rear last much longer than front
the only parts i recommend to change around 100k miles
Ball Joints #2
Integral Links #4
and maybe rear bearings ( depend on roads condition )
I have replaced also Guide Links #14 and Wish Bones #18 on 85k miles and they were in excellent condition

Last edited by champaign777; 08-15-2011 at 03:21 PM.
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  #64  
Old 08-14-2011, 09:30 PM
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champaign777 champaign777 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cn90 View Post

If you use this trick (see video time marking 4:20 forward), it is very very easy!!!
Here is the pic to show this clever trick!!!

so i tried it on E39 today and it worked like a champ, you need a LARGE BEARING SEPARATOR from HF



i also used HF bearing removal kit to remove the inner bearing part thank to CNN and Michel thread



now the real question is about a new installation
how to drive shaft into the hub ?
dont really want to use any hammer here , any another method ?

"Bolt in place new bearing , slot hub on to drive shaft splines and gently squarely until you can get the driveshaft nut on use a block of wood so you can tap it on in the centre of the hub"
The "barbaric" way ??

Last edited by champaign777; 08-15-2011 at 09:16 PM.
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  #65  
Old 08-15-2011, 12:54 PM
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champaign777 champaign777 is offline
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1. should we first install bearing and then drive hub into the Drive shaft ? ( AKA everyone do it )
or
2. press bearing into the hub and only them lift hub+bearings into the Drive shaft ?

#1 -> we do 2 things in 1 , we try to set bearing on hub and also hub on the drive shaft with HAMMER
#2 -> we first install bearing on the hub and only them lift hub into the drive shaft

NOT enough flexibility to move the half-shaft out of the way while torquing down the bolts from the rear is not a real issue
i removed bolts with Drive shaft on the place so i can reinstall them in reverse

I think #1 has more damage to bearing and this why they dont last long with this method
any thoughts ?

Last edited by champaign777; 08-15-2011 at 09:26 PM.
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  #66  
Old 08-15-2011, 01:22 PM
cn90 cn90 is offline
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Whatever you do, do not damage the inner race.

#1:
- Install the bearing and tighten the Torx bolts.
- Do NOT drive the Hub in as is, first slide the Axle Splines in so it is up against the Inner Race of the bearing.
- Then slide the Hub in gently over the Inner Race, then STOP. Do not hammer too heavily it in because you will damage the bearing.
- Then use the 36-mm to tighten it down.

#2:
- This is exactly how my 1998 Volvo V70 is done.
The bearing and Hub is one Unit.
- So it is OK to use #2 as well. The key thing is to drive the Inner Race onto the Hub using the socket whose diameter is the same as the Inner Race.
- Then install the Hub/Bearing combo using the 36-mm nut to tighten it down.
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  #67  
Old 08-15-2011, 01:32 PM
cn90 cn90 is offline
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champaign,

As I mentioned before, conceptually, the REAR bearing of the E39 is virtually identical to the FRONT Bearing of the FWD of a 1998 Volvo S/V70.

In the Volvo, you don't have a choice to buy the Bearing alone, it comes from factory as a Hub+Bearing Combo pre-installed.
In the Volvo situation, the Hub+Bearing Combo is installed first (Same Torx bolts as in BMW E39).
Then slide the drive shaft in and tighten it down with the 36-mm nut. Here is the Volvo Link:

http://volvospeed.com/volvo_repairs_...placement.html
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  #68  
Old 08-15-2011, 01:59 PM
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champaign777 champaign777 is offline
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thanks CNN

1. So do you think method #2 is better for bearing than #1 ?
2. In both methods we must to use a hammer
let say first we press bearing into the hub so we have bearing hub combo like in your Volvo example ( one task less )
now we need to use hammer to lift this combo into the drive shaft
the drive shaft rear wheel output is too short to use any tool except of hammer

THIS MEANS USE HAMMER for ~1" on bearing hub combo till it will reach the nut !
Then install the Hub/Bearing combo using the 36-mm nut to tighten it down.

Last edited by champaign777; 08-16-2011 at 07:31 AM.
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  #69  
Old 08-15-2011, 02:24 PM
cn90 cn90 is offline
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Champaign,

Whenever you deal with a "Drive Axle", which means an axle that is powered by the transmission with an axle, the design is virtually identical, whether it is the FRONT wheel of a Toyota Camry, Honda Accords or the REAR wheel of the BMW E39.

It is basically: Axle ---> Bearing ---> Hub.

See the picture from my 2007 Honda Odyssey Van FRONT bearing, the idea is the same because in the Honda Odyssey the Front is the drive axle.

Option #1:
- Install Bearing alone on the wheel carrier first .
- Then hammer the Hub in.
- I understand people do this all the time and may be harmless.
- But this procedure creates lateral stress on the Inner Race (Purple color) because the OUTER Race is held firm while the Inner Race (Purple) is being "hammered" in.
Again, it may be harmless but it could induce damage.

Option #2:
- Install the Bearing onto the Hub first; If you use the correct socket to drive on the INNER Race only, then you are fine.
- When you hammer the hub ---> then install the 36-mm nut, the hammering force (from the hammer) and the clamping force (from the 36-mm nut) is on the Axle itself and the Hub itself, the bearing is spared from this stress.
- So yes, I prefer #2.


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Last edited by cn90; 08-18-2011 at 02:05 PM.
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  #70  
Old 08-15-2011, 02:38 PM
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champaign777 champaign777 is offline
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COOL
i like this

- When you hammer the hub ---> then install the 36-mm nut, the hammering force (from the hammer) and the clamping force (from the 36-mm nut) is on the Axle itself and the Hub itself, the bearing is spared from this stress.


THIS SAY IT ALL

I TALKED TO BMW GURU AND HE SAID THEY ALWAYS INSTALL BEARING ON THE HUB FIRST

ONE THING WHEN YOU hammer the hub ONLY and another thing when you hammer BOTH HUB AND BEARING ( MEANS BEARING KAPUT ?? )

ALSO THE FORCE YOU NEED TO LIFT (HUB+BEARING) COMBO IS MUCH LESS THAN TO LIFT HUB AND ALSO BEARING TOGETHER AT THE SAME TIME !

Last edited by champaign777; 08-16-2011 at 07:33 AM.
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  #71  
Old 08-15-2011, 08:36 PM
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champaign777 champaign777 is offline
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so next step is done , 30 min for 2 bearings with the right tool





more pictures
http://s709.photobucket.com/albums/w...n777/BEARINGS/

tomorrow will be the final attempt , - "come to papi" on the car haha
Cam thank a million for the help !
You are da man

Last edited by champaign777; 08-15-2011 at 09:08 PM.
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  #72  
Old 08-15-2011, 08:41 PM
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doru doru is offline
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This is one of the best threads in quite some time....
I actually learned a few things. Thanks Cam & Igor
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  #73  
Old 08-15-2011, 08:58 PM
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champaign777 champaign777 is offline
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its not easy to be a pioneer , good that we have people like Cam here
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  #74  
Old 08-15-2011, 09:14 PM
cn90 cn90 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by champaign777 View Post
Hi champaign,

I borrow a picture from your photobucket gallery and put it side-to-side with my diagram above for others to see.

The Bearing in a Drive Axle (the FRONT Bearing of a FWD car; and the REAR bearing of a RWD car) of virtually 99% cars out there have this "split design" of Inner Race having 2 separate halves: 1a and 1b.

In other words, there are 2 parallel sets of bearing balls (each set with its own races) inside that bearing.

When you remove the Hub, the "1b" part comes out with the Hub.
The "1a" part stays with the bearing itself.

I show this for those with "engineering mind" to get into the engineering aspects of the Bearing in a Drive Axle.



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  #75  
Old 08-16-2011, 03:44 PM
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champaign777 champaign777 is offline
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HERE WE GO - NO HAMMER if you do it by BMW WAY

http://www.xoutpost.com/miscellaneou...l-tooling.html

I wish i have this tool ,- $877 list !

this tool is the same as TIS tool



Apply light coat of oil to drive flange (1), attach drive flange on spline of output shaft and tighten it down with special tool 33 2 115 / 116 / 118.

we still have to learn a LOT how to work on a BMW w/o hammer
LOL

Last edited by champaign777; 08-16-2011 at 04:13 PM.
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